Challenge to Theists

Jacob Cordingley
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Challenge to Theists

I'm rather disappointed that there are no new arguments. All the arguments I've heard from theists ever have been so old and repetative and don't actually give anything else new. Come on. Are you really as bright as you'd like to think you are? I'm bored! Is there anything interesting you have to say?

 


leor613
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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I'm rather disappointed that there are no new arguments. All the arguments I've heard from theists ever have been so old and repetative and don't actually give anything else new. Come on. Are you really as bright as you'd like to think you are? I'm bored! Is there anything interesting you have to say?

I have many interesting things to say. But I doubt you'd actually listen to me politely. So I will refrain from telling them to you, unless I can get a guarantee that you won't start insulting me, my intelligence, or my background. 


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If you quote the BuyBull,

If you quote the BuyBull, use any of the tired old arguments (Cosmological, teleological, pascal's wager, etc.) or call atheists immoral or any other stupid shit we saw a million times before, we will get pissed off and do that.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


leor613
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I highly doubt you've seen

I highly doubt you've seen my stuff, as most of the Christians who post here have never read the actual Hebrew Bible, let alone the Gemara, Midrash, or anything by Maimonides. For example I dare any Christian to answer where Cain's wife came from, but I can cite Midrash Rabbah, Bereishis Rabbah, Rashi, etc. to prove that Cain and Abel had three sisters, and that their fight was not over their sacrifice, but over who got the third sister. I doubt you've heard that, unless you read the comic book The Dreaming, which is a sequel fo sorts to Neil Gaiman's Sandman. So there, I've told you something you probably didn't know before, but which is millenia old.


Jacob Cordingley
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If it's something I haven't

If it's something I haven't heard before I promise not to scorn or laugh but answer in a polite and civil tone. Come on, Enlighten us.


wavefreak
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MattShizzle wrote: If you

MattShizzle wrote:
If you quote the BuyBull

 

APPEAL TO RIDICULE The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for argument.

 

 

 


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wavefreak

wavefreak wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:
If you quote the BuyBull

 

APPEAL TO RIDICULE The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for argument.

 

 

 

I believe he was merely stating that quoting the bible is pointless in rational and scientific debates with Atheist's. Quoting the bible in a debate against an Atheist is like using a math book to try and teach biology. It just doesn't work. 

"Why would God send his only son to die an agonizing death to redeem an insignificant bit of carbon?"-Victor J. Stenger.


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I think it's alright to

I think it's alright to appeal to ridicule if you want to show how ridiculous a belief system is. It can still be a rational form of argument if backed up with more solid argument.


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Tyl3r04 wrote: wavefreak

Tyl3r04 wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:
If you quote the BuyBull

 

APPEAL TO RIDICULE The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for argument.

 

 

 

I believe he was merely stating that quoting the bible is pointless in rational and scientific debates with Atheist's. Quoting the bible in a debate against an Atheist is like using a math book to try and teach biology. It just doesn't work.

 

If that is what he is stating he should say so instead of substituting his intent with mockery and ridicule. One of the things I've garnered from the posts in this forums is that theists are expected to employ the highest level of precison in their statements.  Fallacious arguments are mercilessly eviscerated. Is it too much to expect the same rigour from the atheists on the board?


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Jacob Cordingley wrote: I

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
I think it's alright to appeal to ridicule if you want to show how ridiculous a belief system is.

 

Appeal to ridicule doesn't show anything. That's why it is a fallacy. Ridicule is an emotional response, not a rational one. This is the Rational Response Squad, not the Emotional Resonse Squad.

 


dark_stumpy
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my uncle was an ewok in

my uncle was an ewok in star wars. an utterly pointless fact, but it's definatly interesting. unless you don't like star wars. in which case, i have nothing more to say on the subject.

hail jesus and rule brittania!!

just because you dont believe in something, doesn't mean it's not there.


leor613
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dark_stumpy wrote: my

dark_stumpy wrote:

my uncle was an ewok in star wars. an utterly pointless fact, but it's definatly interesting. unless you don't like star wars. in which case, i have nothing more to say on the subject.

Which one? Paploo? Teebo?


dark_stumpy
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i dont think he was given a

i dont think he was given a special ewok name, but i do know he carried chubaka* on a stick (a part only seen for a very small length of time admittedly, but it's the only part where he can say 'that one, that's me!!&#39Eye-wink. he was in other areas, but it's harder to point out.

* that guy was 7 foot tall OUT of costume. so imagine being about 5 foot tall, wearing fur and polystyrene with real fires all around, and then carrying chewy!! many of the little guy's lost conciousness. my uncle was one of them, he had to be fanned awake by han solo. lol.

ps. sorry about my spelling throughout all my comments. im not too good at it.

just because you dont believe in something, doesn't mean it's not there.


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Argument about

leor613
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dark_stumpy wrote: i dont

dark_stumpy wrote:

i dont think he was given a special ewok name, but i do know he carried chubaka* on a stick (a part only seen for a very small length of time admittedly, but it's the only part where he can say 'that one, that's me!!&#39Eye-wink. he was in other areas, but it's harder to point out.

* that guy was 7 foot tall OUT of costume. so imagine being about 5 foot tall, wearing fur and polystyrene with real fires all around, and then carrying chewy!! many of the little guy's lost conciousness. my uncle was one of them, he had to be fanned awake by han solo. lol.

ps. sorry about my spelling throughout all my comments. im not too good at it.

Cool. A friend of my mother did editing on the original versions of Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. If you look in the credits she's there somewhere. As for those costumes, yeah, they were supposed to be brutal, for the ewoks and Peter Mayhew, the giant of a man who played Chewie.


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wavefreak

wavefreak wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:
If you quote the BuyBull

 

APPEAL TO RIDICULE The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for argument.

 

 

 

 

The point he's trying to make is that when you try to 'convert' or argue atheists with the bible, YOU'RE commiting a logical fallacy.

Someone has to believe in the god of the bible before putting and stock into the bible.

You quoting the bible at an atheist is about as convincing as me quoting Dr. Suess to you and calling it holy literature. 


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leor613 wrote: For example

leor613 wrote:
For example I dare any Christian to answer where Cain's wife came from, but I can cite Midrash Rabbah, Bereishis Rabbah, Rashi, etc. to prove that Cain and Abel had three sisters, and that their fight was not over their sacrifice, but over who got the third sister.

I admit to being extremely ignorant about the Jewish religion so please cut me a little slack if I say something incorrectly.  It is not my intent to be rude or insulting.

I've never heard of Cain and Abel having sisters (hence a lot of the debate as to how the human race didn't die out right at the beginning), much less fighting over the third sister.  Do you mean fighting over the third sister as in "having her for a wife"? 

Please expand if you have time and throw me another fascinating tidbit like this!

This is one of the reasons I was so tickled to see you on the site.  (My research time is non-existent, but I try to read every post on the forums.) 

 

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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I'm rather disappointed that there are no new arguments. All the arguments I've heard from theists ever have been so old and repetative and don't actually give anything else new. Come on. Are you really as bright as you'd like to think you are? I'm bored! Is there anything interesting you have to say?

 

Kurt Vonnegut:

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

Music can do that to me too sometimes.

 

Mark Vonnegut (his doctor son) had this to say to his dad when his dad asked him, "What is life all about?"


"Father, we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is."

 

Helping each other may very well be a "divine" intent and that isn't too bad an arguement to me. But this could also mean that one makes their own purpose for life, their own intent, as his son has done by becoming a doctor. A combination of both is what I would consider my naive and ignorant ideal.

Sorry if that wasn't interesting.  Oh, and sorry, it's not from a theist.

Judge: god, you have been accused of existence! What do you have to say for yourself?

god: I am innocent until proven guilty, your honour!


dark_stumpy
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i maintain that my

i maintain that my irrelevent fact about my uncle is the most interesting fact of this thread..... then again, i may be biased... oh well.

hail jesus and rule brittania!

just because you dont believe in something, doesn't mean it's not there.