Socialist Myths

EXC
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Socialist Myths

I consider myself open minded person, so I actually listen to arguments from the other side to see if there is anything new that makes rational sense. I've watched the youtube channel 'Second Thought' which is just a steady stream of lies and logical faults designed to indoctrinate weak minded people that feel exploited.

The continually argue the strawman that Capitalism is forced upon us, that everyone that is not a Socialist is opposed to having workers own their means of production. They'll say the baristas at Starbucks should own the barista machine otherwise their labor is theft. I've never met anyone conservative, libertarian or moderate opposed to workers owning the machines they work with. But this is the strawman they continually argue against. Like anyone opposed to Socialism wants to jail workers for buying a barista machine and competing against Starbucks. Which could not be further from the truth. Socialism is like religion where you continually gaslight followers.

The reason that many workers are exploited is because our society produces and imports large number of people that can be exploited. We have too many people for the available natual resources, housing and current infrastructure. These people will be exploited by Capitalists and Socialists or whomever is in charge, doesn't matter the system we live under if there is an oversupply of exploitable people, workers will feel exploited.

If the baristas at Starbucks are to own the machines they work with, how exactly does that transfer happen? Who pays workers that build such machines? Soialists and Communists are vague on the details of 'making things just'. The currnt owners paid workers to build espresso machines, but we just let the 'enlighted' Socialists steal these machines? Then why would any every pay someone to build these machines if they can just be stolen? So .espresso machine builders can't make a living. If workers want to own the means of production, just go to bank or investors and negociate a loan, theft is not the answer. 

But I know the workers can't make enough to buy their means of production because nearly everything workers make goes to pay rent and taxes. We have a housing crisis and yet we still bring in millions of poor homeless migrants to drive up rents even more. The insanity, yet anyone opposed must be continually called racist. This is what our coporate controlled media and government insist upon to maintain a large class of exploitable workers.

The real answer is of course fewer exploitable people. But instead we get the opposite with open borders so all the exploitable people around the world come here and welfare system that pays highly dysfunctional people to have kids that wiil have no ability to negociate in the marketplace as adults. But the sad truth is that people are exploited by both Capitalists and Socialists and their propaganda. The only thing that can fix this is low birth rates, mandatory birth controls, strict immigration controls and rejection of the political propaganda of both political parties, not a system of theft.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Brian37
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 I don't know who you are

 I don't know who you are trying to argue with with this post. I am not a Communist or Marxist and I hate dictators, and no, the state should not own the means of production. Having said that, I am also not for the extreme opposite where there are no rules or requlations and simply let the rich do whatever the fuck they want. Mixed economies depend on what issue we are talking about. Things like health care should NOT be for profit. Neither should police or military. But I am not against private business ownership, especially not mom and pop shops. I am however, against corporate monopolies and abuse of power by giant corporations. I do stand by the concept of collective bargaining too. None of this is advocating dictatorships or Stalin's Russia. 

Fuck Marx. But also fuck crybaby assholes like Bezos and Musk who bitch about taxes whom will never go broke. 

 
And nobody is saying we should never deport anyone. But fuck your racist bullshit. These are fellow human beings, not vampires. Their migrating to get away from starving to death or dying from crime or civil unrest. Any human being under threat is going to go to where they think they can survive better. But if we have to deport someone, we should always do our best to treat them with dignity while they are here, and try not to send them back to a place where they might die. 

If you are so damned worried about exploitation, then give workers a a say, instead of corporations, value unions. And migrants should get paid equally as anyone living here. NO rules or regulations are what allow for the exploitation of workers. One of the most common exploitation of workers is WAGE THEFT, and that is where corporate and district managers and franchise owners chip a minute here or there every day off every employee's clock work and that effects everyone, migrant and citizen. I know personally because the national pizza chain franchise owner got his managers to turn the computers off and have us clock out before we would finish our work. When you are a low wage worker and cant afford a lawyer to sue in a "RIGHT TO FUCK THE EMPLOYEE" state, it is impossible to stop that wage theflt. But people like you hate unions and hate oversight and regulations, so you cant bitch about things you refuse to fix. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


EXC
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 Obviosly you are throughly

 Obviosly you are throughly indoctrinated by political propaganda. 

One's political view is what one beleives about the use of deadly force. So if you say "I'm not a Communist", but you believe in taxing the shit out of private business until it becomes enconomically unviable, you are essentially the same. The Communist believes in taking power then killing Capitalists and those opposed to them. You and people that identify as Socialists want to tax the shit out of Capitalists and those opposed. So essentially the difference is Communists want to kill, Socialist and whatever you are just want to jail. Not a big difference in my mind.

Taxes in their present form essentially function as fines. If you speed on the freeway, government can make you pay large fines so you stop that activity. If the fines are too low and drivers still speed, they can increase the fines to make the activity stop. So, can someone say the are not opposed to speeding if they support continually higher fines for people that speed? Iwebeck wants to kill 'speeders', you just want to put them in jail if they don't pay their big fines. Not big difference in my mind, at least Iwbeck is being honest about what he believes, but you are just completely duped by political propaganda, so I don't think there is much point in political debate with you.

Why do believe in the concepts like 'non-profit' and 'public servants'.  Are chuches really "non-profits" just because they say they are doing the Lord's work? Or do churches serve the interests of those that run the place? The executives that run the 'non-profits' all make a good salary, otherwise they work somewhere else. Why do so-call 'public-servants' have unions to represent them and go on strike if they are not happy with their compensation. Aren't they acting like selfish Capitalists? Unions essentiall act like criminal gangs that insist upon being a monopoly which is supposedly a bad thing when it is a business owner doing so.

You obviously are just like the religious people you critisize and you never really want to examine what you believe or want to consider if the beliefs you've been indoctrinated with may be wrong.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Brian37
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EXC wrote: Obviosly you are

EXC wrote:

 Obviosly you are throughly indoctrinated by political propaganda. 

One's political view is what one beleives about the use of deadly force. So if you say "I'm not a Communist", but you believe in taxing the shit out of private business until it becomes enconomically unviable, you are essentially the same. The Communist believes in taking power then killing Capitalists and those opposed to them. You and people that identify as Socialists want to tax the shit out of Capitalists and those opposed. So essentially the difference is Communists want to kill, Socialist and whatever you are just want to jail. Not a big difference in my mind.

Taxes in their present form essentially function as fines. If you speed on the freeway, government can make you pay large fines so you stop that activity. If the fines are too low and drivers still speed, they can increase the fines to make the activity stop. So, can someone say the are not opposed to speeding if they support continually higher fines for people that speed? Iwebeck wants to kill 'speeders', you just want to put them in jail if they don't pay their big fines. Not big difference in my mind, at least Iwbeck is being honest about what he believes, but you are just completely duped by political propaganda, so I don't think there is much point in political debate with you.

Why do believe in the concepts like 'non-profit' and 'public servants'.  Are chuches really "non-profits" just because they say they are doing the Lord's work? Or do churches serve the interests of those that run the place? The executives that run the 'non-profits' all make a good salary, otherwise they work somewhere else. Why do so-call 'public-servants' have unions to represent them and go on strike if they are not happy with their compensation. Aren't they acting like selfish Capitalists? Unions essentiall act like criminal gangs that insist upon being a monopoly which is supposedly a bad thing when it is a business owner doing so.

You obviously are just like the religious people you critisize and you never really want to examine what you believe or want to consider if the beliefs you've been indoctrinated with may be wrong.

Project much? You not liking my answers does not make me indoctrinated. You have always been stuck on "Fuck you I got mine" and "Taxes are robbery" then bitch about all the problems of society that need taxes to address. Nobody is talking about valuing Stalin's Russia or Castro's Cuba. The only thing that can be argued about taxes are how much to tax and what to spend the money on. No government will never work. Power structures always arise, so it is  always a matter of what you want that power structure to look like. 

In a multi class society, no one class gets to monopolize the government. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


EXC
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Brian37 wrote: Project

Brian37 wrote:

 

Project much? You not liking my answers does not make me indoctrinated. You have always been stuck on "Fuck you I got mine" and "Taxes are robbery" then bitch about all the problems of society that need taxes to address. Nobody is talking about valuing Stalin's Russia or Castro's Cuba. The only thing that can be argued about taxes are how much to tax and what to spend the money on. No government will never work. Power structures always arise, so it is  always a matter of what you want that power structure to look like. 

In a multi class society, no one class gets to monopolize the government. 

 

If someone wants to ban smoking, they could get a law passed that anyone that sells a pack of cigarettes must pay a $100 fine per pack. Someone else could say "I don't want to ban smoking, I just think people getting rich selling cigarettes should pay a $100 tax for each pack they sell". How are these two people any different in their political position? It is only a semantic difference.

They only difference I can see in your position and Communists is that Communists believe in the death penalty for being a Capitalist that doesn't go along with massive redistribution. You are in favor of high taxes which amounts to heavy fines for being a Capitalist or working for one. If someone doesn't pay the fines(aka taxes), you jail them until they do. So Communists believe in the death penalty for Capitalists and you don't. What other substantive difference is there?

You continually strawman my position. I don't believe taxes in their present form "address" any problem. Taxes only make problems worse because they are not user fees but instead a fine for being hard-working, skilled, responsible. Taxes are subsidy for being lazy, unskilled and irresponsible.

Raising Jeff Bezos's taxes is a penalty for running a successful business that produced products and services consumers want and employing people. Raising his taxes will only discourage that behavior and encourge the opposite. Giving that money to welfare queens, lobbyists and corporate donors is the opposite. The only problem with his extreme wealth is the power to monopolize markets and buy up land. If he is just creating products consumers may want and employing people, he does not need to be punished with high taxes. If he builds a mansion or yacht, does he not employ with a good job the blue collar workers you claim to care about? Yes make his trucks pay for the road they use, don't let him drive out competitors with monopolistic practices, don't let him pollute the environment, don't let him bring in all the desperately poor migrants escaping overpopulation across an open border as his slave labor.

You don't want to argue against what I believe, because you can't. So you just strawman that I want people to be poor and broke, that I don't want to pay for the roads I use. That is the result of political indoctrination, you are told what the opposition believes by the propaganda you learned in public schools and leftist media. It is like the how the religious are indoctrinated about who atheists are(they eat babies) and what they actually believe. 

Can you ever argue whether government subsidizing poverty will fix poverty or make it worse? Is the concept of moral hazard beyond your ability to comprehend? Is population pressures not a thing to ever discuss even though you claim to be pro-science? No. Just repeat the talking points of your indoctrination and never have a real debate. The fact that you never argue against what I really believe and instead project a strawman is proof of your indoctrination.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Beyond Saving
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"If the baristas at

"If the baristas at Starbucks are to own the machines they work with, how exactly does that transfer happen?"

Open a Robinhood account for free. Load it with about the same amount of money you pay for your phone service. Buy a share of SBUX. Boom. You own the machine and get your $2.12/year in dividends (and growing). 

 

Or better yet, you save up approximately $1000, the price you paid for your ghetto fabulous phone. Open up an adult brokerage account, and you buy a SBUX bond. Boom, your boss is your debtor paying you $40/year in interest. 

 

"But I know the workers can't make enough to buy their means of production because nearly everything workers make goes to pay rent and taxes."
Of course they can. If they stopped blowing money on useless junk, most people have room in their budgets. For example, stop going to SBUX and drinking their piss coffee for $10, you can make your own really good coffee for $2, invest that $8/day, in 10 years you have approximately $60-$80k.  Take your $60k+, use it as equity to get a loan for $50-$60k and start your own damn coffee shop. If you are good at it, you'll make money. If you aren't, you won't. But, folks don't want to give up their $10 coffees, $1000 smartphones, and their piles of Chinese crap. So instead of investing $8/day, they pay for overpriced crap. It is ridiculous to say that people can't afford things when the most successful companies in the country sell high priced garbage at very high volumes. It amazes me how many "poor" people I see with a phone nicer than mine. It's about priorities. Can a barrista at SBUX afford $8/day? Absofuckinglutely.  

"I can't afford it" is an excuse. Pull some weed out of your pocket and suddenly they have cash pulled out of their ass. It's about motivation. If it is important enough to you, you'll find a way to afford it. If it isn't important enough, then don't bitch about it. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:"If the

Beyond Saving wrote:

"If the baristas at Starbucks are to own the machines they work with, how exactly does that transfer happen?"

Open a Robinhood account for free. Load it with about the same amount of money you pay for your phone service. Buy a share of SBUX. Boom. You own the machine and get your $2.12/year in dividends (and growing). 

 

Or better yet, you save up approximately $1000, the price you paid for your ghetto fabulous phone. Open up an adult brokerage account, and you buy a SBUX bond. Boom, your boss is your debtor paying you $40/year in interest. 

 

"But I know the workers can't make enough to buy their means of production because nearly everything workers make goes to pay rent and taxes."
Of course they can. If they stopped blowing money on useless junk, most people have room in their budgets. For example, stop going to SBUX and drinking their piss coffee for $10, you can make your own really good coffee for $2, invest that $8/day, in 10 years you have approximately $60-$80k.  Take your $60k+, use it as equity to get a loan for $50-$60k and start your own damn coffee shop. If you are good at it, you'll make money. If you aren't, you won't. But, folks don't want to give up their $10 coffees, $1000 smartphones, and their piles of Chinese crap. So instead of investing $8/day, they pay for overpriced crap. It is ridiculous to say that people can't afford things when the most successful companies in the country sell high priced garbage at very high volumes. It amazes me how many "poor" people I see with a phone nicer than mine. It's about priorities. Can a barrista at SBUX afford $8/day? Absofuckinglutely.  

"I can't afford it" is an excuse. Pull some weed out of your pocket and suddenly they have cash pulled out of their ass. It's about motivation. If it is important enough to you, you'll find a way to afford it. If it isn't important enough, then don't bitch about it. 



If "fuck you I got mine" worked the way the GOP and Libertarians claimed, nobody would be bitching. 

This is fucking bullshit. Nobody is talking about getting rid of the private sector, but the gap between people like Bezos and the bottom earners is exploding, not to mention the cost of living such as housing and rent and health care keeps skyrocketing every year. And all you want to do is blame it on the middle class and poor. Reagan's vaccume up economics does not work. 

No one class should have a monopoly on our government and the regulations and taxes lawmakers make, that is all the sane are saying. But right now you'd rather let someone like Bezos who does not need all the money he has dictate to the rest of us. FUCK YOU, AND FUCK HIM. Nobody wants to end wealth, but we do say that one class is bullying the rest of society, and that hamster wheel workers are stuck on doesn't go anywhere because the rich want it that way. Keep the middle class and poor desperate, you can pass workers around like poker chips. 

And how many crashes have we bailed the top out from? No, sorry Jeff Bezos is never going to end up on cat food, so do not expect me to feel sorry for him. I think the middle class and working poor need the voice right now at this point in history. Billionaires do not get to get rich off the rest of us, then ignore the labor they get rich off of. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:"If the

Beyond Saving wrote:

"If the baristas at Starbucks are to own the machines they work with, how exactly does that transfer happen?"

Open a Robinhood account for free. Load it with about the same amount of money you pay for your phone service. Buy a share of SBUX. Boom. You own the machine and get your $2.12/year in dividends (and growing). 

 

Or better yet, you save up approximately $1000, the price you paid for your ghetto fabulous phone. Open up an adult brokerage account, and you buy a SBUX bond. Boom, your boss is your debtor paying you $40/year in interest. 

 

"But I know the workers can't make enough to buy their means of production because nearly everything workers make goes to pay rent and taxes."
Of course they can. If they stopped blowing money on useless junk, most people have room in their budgets. For example, stop going to SBUX and drinking their piss coffee for $10, you can make your own really good coffee for $2, invest that $8/day, in 10 years you have approximately $60-$80k.  Take your $60k+, use it as equity to get a loan for $50-$60k and start your own damn coffee shop. If you are good at it, you'll make money. If you aren't, you won't. But, folks don't want to give up their $10 coffees, $1000 smartphones, and their piles of Chinese crap. So instead of investing $8/day, they pay for overpriced crap. It is ridiculous to say that people can't afford things when the most successful companies in the country sell high priced garbage at very high volumes. It amazes me how many "poor" people I see with a phone nicer than mine. It's about priorities. Can a barrista at SBUX afford $8/day? Absofuckinglutely.  

"I can't afford it" is an excuse. Pull some weed out of your pocket and suddenly they have cash pulled out of their ass. It's about motivation. If it is important enough to you, you'll find a way to afford it. If it isn't important enough, then don't bitch about it. 



If "fuck you I got mine" worked the way the GOP and Libertarians claimed, nobody would be bitching. 

This is fucking bullshit. Nobody is talking about getting rid of the private sector, but the gap between people like Bezos and the bottom earners is exploding, not to mention the cost of living such as housing and rent and health care keeps skyrocketing every year. And all you want to do is blame it on the middle class and poor. Reagan's vaccume up economics does not work. 

No one class should have a monopoly on our government and the regulations and taxes lawmakers make, that is all the sane are saying. But right now you'd rather let someone like Bezos who does not need all the money he has dictate to the rest of us. FUCK YOU, AND FUCK HIM. Nobody wants to end wealth, but we do say that one class is bullying the rest of society, and that hamster wheel workers are stuck on doesn't go anywhere because the rich want it that way. Keep the middle class and poor desperate, you can pass workers around like poker chips. 

And how many crashes have we bailed the top out from? No, sorry Jeff Bezos is never going to end up on cat food, so do not expect me to feel sorry for him. I think the middle class and working poor need the voice right now at this point in history. Billionaires do not get to get rich off the rest of us, then ignore the labor they get rich off of. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog