Take the intelectual fight to them.
Before I begin. I must insist that believers understand, what I am saying here is not a human rights issue. Every atheist here has to some degree believing family and friends and co workers. No atheist should be in the same utopia mindset to think "if only everyone were atheists". On a planet of 7 billion and in an imperfect species, there is no utopia and we should deal with reality the way it is, not the way we want it to be.
It is ALSO possible for the atheist to value the human struggle, such as Ann Frank, Martin Luther King Jr, and Malala, without believing in the gods they profess. Atheists in the west, for the most part are always on the side of minorities and have had a long history of supporting the rights of minorities.
However, there is a fight going on, and politics and religion are dividing humanity, and all religions are used as weapons to claim moral superiority over others. And there are masses of humans suckered by clearly con artists out of their money over the stupid idea that a utopia is possible at all.
Two of the biggest con artists are cowards and refuse to debate anyone anywhere, and it is up to those of reason to take the VERBAL ONLY, intellectual fight to them.
Here are the facebook pages of Joel Olsteen and Benny Hinn. I invite you to go there and put counter arguments on their pages. You most likely will get deleted, but the more of us that do this, the harder it will be for them to ignore debate.
But not just on facebook. Any media or newspaper website where ANY believer of any religion makes a post, counter their arguments with facts. We wont make religion go away, but when it ignores facts and when it poisons minds and fleeces people out of money, only facts and reason can keep these people on a leash.
https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries
https://www.facebook.com/JoelOsteen?rf=106009516105438
And just for shits and giggles, here is Banana man's farcebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/official.Ray.Comfort
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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So now I am responsible for the choices you made? Or is it that you project your own wishes on others just like theists project gods on us?
what???
dude, do you even read shit all the way through? be honest!
i fucking love my life, but what did i say? why did i say i bothered to mention all that stuff?
TO. LET. YOU. KNOW. I. KNOW. HOW. TO. PRIORITIZE.
fuck, i'm starting to feel like i'm in the classroom...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
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"Yes it was our imagination that the Dark Ages happened. Witch hunts, 9/11, slavery sexism homophobia. None of those things happened because nobody read a holy book and justified harm to other humans because there are no holy books."
lol
"Where you are wrong is that HE and I are right. We don't deny that there are good people in religion, but religion IS poison. It divides humans and only a dead person or delusional person cannot see that."
No, you're both wrong. I'm the only one who is right. Sorry.
If you want a serious response, then you'll have to do a better job making your argument. Right now it is laughable.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
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If you think you can do a better job, then do so. But being an armchair quarterback doesn't mean shit to me.
Brian your very existence doesn't mean shit to me. You're just a form of entertainment ( sort of like being my wind-up doll )
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Brian37 wrote:
I educated myself by reading their books, but I guess I wasted my time because reading doesn't do anything but make people think.
do you really want to go down this road with me? i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins--the same kind of sorry i haven't read max fucking lucado. i guess i've just been too busy with wittgenstein, kafka, hannah arendt, karl popper, surendranath dasgupta, sarvepalli radhakrishnan, thomas mann, vaclav havel, milan simecka, hans kung, max weber, marx, sidney hook, etc., etc.--you know, people who never had the chance to appear on prime time news because they were too busy running from the gestapo, or the prussian secret police, or smuggling samizdat from behind the iron curtain. no way those guys could make anybody think. we need hitchens or dawkins.
yeah, i'm totally not into reading. especially since i all i read are a bunch of retarded thinkers from throughout history whose basic message seems to be, "hey, the individual is the only reality, not the ideology, so we should never just lump shit together and say, 'this is better' or 'this is worse.' we should just look at individuals and say 'this guy was a dick' or 'this guy was ok,' and not even give a fuck if they believed in a god or not."
yeah, why bother with that shit...
i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins
For someone who claims to be a teacher, and as a fellow atheist, I think you do yourself a disservice by not doing so. He is a very powerful advocate for science and like me, hates our schoolbooks and schools being dumbed down by religious voters and politicians.
And since when is bitching illegal? Actually there are places where bitching is illegal, like Iran and North Korea (Nationalism their religion). Religious people don't stop at bitching, far to many even if not all DO get violent. Religious violence is in the news every single day. Religious politicians even without physical violence always try to assault the rights of others with law, and not just in Islam. My state has institutionalized bigotry through mob rule by vote denying gays the right to marry. Right winger politicians on MY DIME constantly BITCH about smaller government but hypocritically want government to control women's bodies.
So excuse me, I will bitch about it as much as I like.
FYI merely stating a fact here or anywhere else is a teaching moment and you don't have to be a teacher to pass on correct information.
For example when people claim this is a Christian Nation I can post the quotes from the Barbary Treaty article ll and even quote a educational source. Since you are a teacher and value homework, I would assume I don't need to tell you to find it yourself.
When they try to paint the founders as all fundies I can point to Jefferson and even Adams, and Washington and their personal views on religion. I cant count all the times I have done this. All verifiable facts.
When people try to claim creationism I tell them by chemical makeup what DNA is. Then I ask them if they are willing to accept DNA in a murder trial. Then I say if you are willing to accept DNA in that context then you cannot cherry pick it when it clearly debunks creationism.
Now again, don't pull this brinkmanship crap with me. This is not a competition.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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I'd just like to say that Utopia's are a matter of opinion.
No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist.
The point of doing this is to demonstrate first and most importantly is not for the theist, but for other atheists, who might be afraid of being open, and or someone who has doubts but hasn't seen a first hand challenge and may simply quietly go through the motions of belief because "thats what people do". I know with my sister she always had nagging cracks but didn't let go over night.
Secondly it puts these goons on notice. They might be able to swat one of us, but not all of us.
And again, not just at those three websites, but anywhere a religious or political pundit might offer up a story or opinion on a tv show or in a newspaper or on the web.
The point isn't a sudden atheist utopia as a goal, but to force society to face the fact and accept the fact that we are a very normal part of human existence.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Here's a "fact" for you, I don't need my atheism validated by society ( like you do ) nor do I crave their acceptance. Fuck the world.
This isn't about you.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
He he, I got banned from that con artist Benny Hinn's facebook page. I am under no delusion that he took notice. However, whatever minions he has on his payroll did. I do encourage all atheists reading this to post there. You will get banned. But if enough of us go there they will have to debate atheists or they will like cowards have to shut down the page.
Come on Benny, even Ray Comfort had the balls to debate atheists.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
"No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist."
Wrong. The term 'utopia' is purely subjective to the opinion of the individual. If I deem the current state of affairs to be utopian, then we live in my definition of utopia. You have to get off this utopia bullshit.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Correct, it's all about you ...
precisely. i'm getting sick of his black-and-white, all-or-nothing, us-and-them, good guys/bad guys demagoguery. i had enough of that shit in the evangelical world and i'm disappointed to find it here.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
So was Brian, the owner of this site seeking attention solely for himself when he debated on Nightline? What about Dawkins and Hitchens?
So only rich famous people are allowed to speak out about things that are important to them?
I really dont give one flying fuck what anyone thinks about the amount I post. Not liking the amount I post or the tactics I employ does not constitute me bowing to you because you don't like it. Get over yourself.
If you think you can do a better job, then do so. But being an armchair quarterback doesn't mean shit to me.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Hitchens called religion POISON, but I guess since he was famous, then it was ok.
Tell Ayaan she should shut up and not right books about how women in Islam are treated.
Tell the gays in North Carolina where they cant get married that religion doesn't affect them.
Tell the family members of the abortion doctor murdered IN THE CHURCH, that religion doesn't affect them.
I have been personally affected and my younger sister affected by the ignorance and credulity of religion. I am under no delusion that it will completely go away. But I am damned sure going to spend my life making sure it doesn't gain a monopoly over me or dumb down science.
Again, if you don't like how I do things , that is fine. If you think you can do a better job, then do it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
And please tell especially all those young atheists who live in a prison in their own homes who have theistic parents that religion doesn't affect them.
I offend religion because it needs offending, not because I hate all the people who buy into it. Just like I would hate it if you went around claiming the Yankees won the Superbowl. I find it sad that my own CATHOLIC mother understands me better than you.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
oh for christ's fucking sake, more demagoguery, more emotionalism, more anecdotal hysteria. that's why, when i joined this site waaay back in the mists of '08, i asked if it had more to do with promoting rationalism or atheism, because the two do not of necessity go hand in hand (obviously).
and i DO do my fucking work, my way. i teach my students to be critical thinkers above all else, in the hopes that the next generation will be a little better than this one. since, in my little neck of central europe, i teach in one of the most prestigious grammar schools in the country, and thus many of my students will be powerful and successful one day (in slovakia, at least), it's a good chance i am having at least a small direct effect on this country's future. and since, as an avid and deep reader of world history, i know that human patterns of behavior change VEEERY SLOOOOWLY, and that being a shrill demagogue trying to change the world overnight usually does more harm than good in the long run, i honestly think i'm doing my work well.
christ, why? let's take a second to look at that statement. you're talking about your mother versus a total stranger, for christ's sake! why is that sad? is it because she's catholic? do you really think both of us being atheist is supposed to give us some automatic, unspoken connection? is your self-identity based primarily on your atheism??? is it based on anything else at all???
because i find it infinitely sadder that you're shocked your own fucking mother understands you better than a stranger over the internet...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
No it is not. "Atheist" by itself without cussing or blasphemy is seen as evil. Penn cusses throughout his book so you need to go after him too. You need to go after Hitchens too, who unlike Penn never cusses in his books. You need to go after Dawkins too. They get demonized even without cussing.
I find it sad you are more concerned about me than what is done in the name of religion. Get your priorities in order.
Again, quit your bitching, jump in and do your own thing, but complaining about me is simply complaining.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
"Hitchens called religion POISON, but I guess since he was famous, then it was ok."
I guess your memory is failing you. I told you already that Hitchens was dead wrong on a number of issues. I don't care what your name is or what you've done; if you're wrong I'll call you out.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Yes it was our imagination that the Dark Ages happened. Witch hunts, 9/11, slavery sexism homophobia. None of those things happened because nobody read a holy book and justified harm to other humans because there are no holy books.
Where you are wrong is that HE and I are right. We don't deny that there are good people in religion, but religion IS poison. It divides humans and only a dead person or delusional person cannot see that.
Penn, on the issue of religion has his version "Don't hate the faithful, hate faith itself"
Harris as well has taken aim at liberals and moderates saying they lend cover to the nuts because of people like you who ignore the dark side of religion. If you don't ignore it, then you should not have a problem with people who rightfully call it what it is. It is "poison" in an intellectually lazy sense. It teaches people to swallow first, and far too many, even if not all, defend to the death claims they have no evidence for.
Now you are nuts, to think because we call it poison, that we hate all people who buy into a religion. I am perfectly capable of loving and liking people who make claims I find absurd and even dangerous. But I won't sugar coat what I think of their claims simply to placate their insecurities.
Now, having had someone try to have me fired not for cussing or blasphemy, but merely for seeing A WORD. I really don't need you to lecture me about how to battle this. I also don't need you to lecture me knowing the pain it has caused my younger sister. I've had it tame. But people of ALL religions are harmed and harm others in the name of religion. To deny this is a disservice to humanity as a whole.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
i barely know who those fucking people are.
and obviously i have no motherfucking problem with fucking cussing. what i have a problem with hysteria. i'm not sure if dawkins or penn peddle it, but i'm sure you do, which is why i'm talking to you.
seriously? you're talkin' to a guy with a wife and a toddler, a house and property requiring constant maintenance, 3 jobs, 2 bands, and who's going back to school to get his master's. i've successfully balanced all this for 2 years and i get on here only when what little free time i have permits. i'm not saying all this to brag, but only to demonstrate that prioritizing is something i'm damn good at.
and once again, the single biggest bitcher i've ever encountered on the internet (and that's saying a lot) is telling someone else to quit bitching.
I TOLD YOU, IN VERY SPECIFIC TERMS, HOW I DO "MY THING." NOW, LET ME ASK YOU.........IS THERE SOME OTHER MOTHERFUCKING THING YOU DO TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BESIDES COMING ON HERE EVERY DAY AND VENTING YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SPLEEN AFTER ARGUING--BITCHING, LET'S CALL IT--TO ALL YOUR COWORKERS AND FAMILY MEMBERS DAY AFTER DAY???
I.
FUCKING.
TEACH.
and more than a few students over the years have told me i've inspired them in some way. what the fuck do you do?
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"Make the world a better place" translation, "do it my way".
You are making this a competition, not me. Glad you inspired someone. I inspired my sister to be less afraid of being open. I got notice from another facebook user a couple of weeks ago that they knew another atheist teen isolated in a fundy home. I sent several people over to her page to allow her to feel less lonely. Notice how I gave credit to another person who started it?
Outside this issue I take my mother out to shop and to her doctors appointments. And at work I do tons of stuff I am not asked to do to make my co workers jobs easier. I have given my friends money without expecting it back, and lent them my vehicle. I have also donated money to charity. But I guess you expect everyone to do it to the extent of say Bill Gates?
I am not doing anything wrong simply because you don't like the way I do it or the amount I do it.
And in regards to those "people you barely know"
I educated myself by reading their books, but I guess I wasted my time because reading doesn't do anything but make people think. And constantly when theists make arguments over the years I direct them to those books, as well as atheists who are newbies. I direct them here and to other atheist websites. But since I am not working 80 hours a week I cant be considered useful.
Project much?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
So now I am responsible for the choices you made? Or is it that you project your own wishes on others just like theists project gods on us?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
do you really want to go down this road with me? i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins--the same kind of sorry i haven't read max fucking lucado. i guess i've just been too busy with wittgenstein, kafka, hannah arendt, karl popper, surendranath dasgupta, sarvepalli radhakrishnan, thomas mann, vaclav havel, milan simecka, hans kung, max weber, marx, sidney hook, etc., etc.--you know, people who never had the chance to appear on prime time news because they were too busy running from the gestapo, or the prussian secret police, or smuggling samizdat from behind the iron curtain. no way those guys could make anybody think. we need hitchens or dawkins.
yeah, i'm totally not into reading. especially since i all i read are a bunch of retarded thinkers from throughout history whose basic message seems to be, "hey, the individual is the only reality, not the ideology, so we should never just lump shit together and say, 'this is better' or 'this is worse.' we should just look at individuals and say 'this guy was a dick' or 'this guy was ok,' and not even give a fuck if they believed in a god or not."
yeah, why bother with that shit...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson