And it begins again: Pope Francis

Vastet
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And it begins again: Pope Francis

No article or source necessary. It's everywhere. So will this guy be better or worse than the last? Time will tell.


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Assisi

Interesting that Francis was chosen.

Two days ago his odds were 75.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

By this point, the Franciscan Order had grown to such an extent that its primitive organizational structure was no longer sufficient. He returned to Italy to organize the Order. Once his community was authorized by the Pope, he withdrew increasingly from external affairs.

According to the hagiographic legend, thereafter he began to avoid the sports and the feasts of his former companions. In response, they asked him laughingly whether he was thinking of marrying, to which he answered, "yes, a fairer bride than any of you have ever seen," meaning his "Lady Poverty". He spent much time in lonely places, asking God for enlightenment. By degrees he took to nursing lepers, the most repulsive victims in the lazar houses near Assisi. After a pilgrimage to Rome, where he joined the poor in begging at the doors of the churches, he said he had a mystical vision of Jesus Christ in the country chapel of San Damiano, just outside of Assisi, in which the Icon of Christ Crucified said to him, "Francis, Francis, go and repair My house which, as you can see, is falling into ruins."


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This pope is no better than

This pope is no better than the last one, he has been and still is being investigated of crimes against humanity in Argentina for the disappearance of 2 jesusit priests (who were found 5 months later half naked and drugged) , the 2 priests accused Bergoglio of handing them over to the military dictatorship of the 70's as well, the Military had hidden political prisoners from human rights commission at the cardinal summer house. Of course like the old pope is against abortion and same sex marriage and same sex adoption of children.


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Wow, an actual war criminal

Wow, an actual war criminal this time.

If this keeps escalating, we'll have pope Charles Manson in a few years. 


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The comments I have seen

The comments I have seen floating around makes him out to be "foo\r the poor" , but at the same time uber anti gay. So worse, how can you be for the "small guy" and cherry pick which weak people you stick up for? But this is to be expected. Catholics in America are pretty liberal compared to the Vatican itself.

The choice was not from god, it is so fucking transparent, they picked South America purely for PR plus less developed and less educated, easier targets.

The Pope is not for the poor, the pope is relying on the desperation of the poor to indoctrinate them.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Whatever else this guy might

Whatever else this guy might be, he is a step up from most religious leaders on the poverty point. He could have been living in a palace. Instead he shared an apartment. I can give him that much. Whether or not he'll change anything at the Vatican will be a real test of his convictions towards the poor.

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Vastet wrote: He could have

Vastet wrote:
He could have been living in a palace.

And where will he be living from now on ?  


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Anonymouse wrote:Vastet

Anonymouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
He could have been living in a palace.

And where will he be living from now on ?  

i've been to rome, i've seen the vatican.  it may be ostentatious, but i have a hard time believing it's comfortable.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I bet with some minor

I bet with some minor tweaking a few rooms could be very comfortable. I am sure just about any poor person would be willing to trade their problems for. Eye-wink

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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Anonymouse wrote:Vastet

Anonymouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
He could have been living in a palace.

And where will he be living from now on ?  

While the Vatican is clearly not an apartment, I don't think he has a choice, other than turning down the appointment. Which would preclude him from affecting any policies, if in fact he intends to. So I can't really hold it against him.
I actually don't think a pope would have the ability to alter the Vatican itself. Not today at least. I could be wrong.
What would happen if the pope contradicted church policies en masse anyway? Do they have an impeachment process?

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Vastet wrote:Anonymouse

Vastet wrote:
Anonymouse wrote:

Vastet wrote:
He could have been living in a palace.

And where will he be living from now on ?  

While the Vatican is clearly not an apartment, I don't think he has a choice, other than turning down the appointment. Which would preclude him from affecting any policies, if in fact he intends to. So I can't really hold it against him. I actually don't think a pope would have the ability to alter the Vatican itself. Not today at least. I could be wrong. What would happen if the pope contradicted church policies en masse anyway? Do they have an impeachment process?

See this is what I hate about that institution. Exactly what "policies"? He is an appointed person no country voted for him, and I wont give him the dignity of calling him a leader. He holds no office, his "country" is just a country club.

Saying that he is "better" would be like saying "yea don't kill gays, but don't give them equal rights either". And when did they ever have their first female Pope?

I will give no verbal respite to an institution that spreads homophobia and institutionalizes sexism.

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The UN recognises the

The UN recognises the Vatican as independent from any nation. Ignoring their status because of spite is pointless and futile.

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Vastet wrote:The UN

Vastet wrote:
The UN recognises the Vatican as independent from any nation. Ignoring their status because of spite is pointless and futile.

Who says I am? I think you missed my point. I agree, they do have power, but that does not mean they deserve it. They are the head of a superstition. The Pharoahs had superstitions too and were influenced by their oracles too.

Quite the opposite, bloody history of that institution the last thing anyone should do is ignore it.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Eh who cares in the end, he

Eh who cares in the end, he is an argie (I am of argentinian background, have almost all my family there and I lived there fore 3 years) by next year half the vatican wil be sold to private companies. the following year he will take it all back at half the price and run it into the ground, then blame the americans or the british for his misfortunes. On the bright side Argentina has a better chance at winning the world cup now Sticking out tongue

 


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Vastet wrote:Whatever else

Vastet wrote:
Whatever else this guy might be, he is a step up from most religious leaders on the poverty point. He could have been living in a palace. Instead he shared an apartment. I can give him that much. Whether or not he'll change anything at the Vatican will be a real test of his convictions towards the poor.

 

What about the blue collar construction guys that could have been gainfully employed building palaces? Instead of working and developing valuable job skills, they are forced to beg for handouts. Plus he opposes birth control which is obviously a needed tool if poverty is ever to be eliminated. His morality is obviously sanctimonious and self-serving.

Religious and Socialist political leaders don't produce any wealth that could help the poor. They use the poor to keep their unmerited power and privilege, so they really have no interest in eliminated the root causes of poverty, they want the poor dependent on them. All they can do is dupe simple minded people with that can't understand complex economic, biological and social systems.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Your argument is illogical

Your argument is illogical as always. Why would he build palaces when he already had one to live in? Not to mention that even the construction of a skyscraper can be done in a year or less. All those workers would end up unemployed anyway.

Birth control has nothing to do with the topic so I'm not even going to address it.

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Vastet wrote:Your argument

Vastet wrote:
Your argument is illogical as always. Why would he build palaces when he already had one to live in?

When people make choices to not consume a product the net effect of that is less production of that commodity. 'He' doesn't build palaces. Places get built when there is a demand and someone with money to pay for it. There is one less palace that needed to be built because he gave up his. I know the law of supply and demand is a difficult concept for you to grasp but try to educate yourself on basic economics before you make yourself look so ignorant.

You and the followers of this pope think that low consumption somehow helps the poor, when the opposite is the truth.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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He gave up the archbishops

He gave up the archbishops palace, it was already built, there was no building a new one, however if the church wants to give long term help for the poor, then work on infrastructure in some of the poorest nations, that would help far more in the long run than building churches and palaces.


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EXC wrote:Vastet wrote:Your

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Your argument is illogical as always. Why would he build palaces when he already had one to live in?

When people make choices to not consume a product the net effect of that is less production of that commodity. 'He' doesn't build palaces. Places get built when there is a demand and someone with money to pay for it. There is one less palace that needed to be built because he gave up his. I know the law of supply and demand is a difficult concept for you to grasp but try to educate yourself on basic economics before you make yourself look so ignorant.

You and the followers of this pope think that low consumption somehow helps the poor, when the opposite is the truth.

More absolutely ridiculous bullshit flying in the face of facts and ignoring logic, as always.

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iwbiek
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if someone wanted to build a

if someone wanted to build a palace in the grand old style, like the vatican, versailles, hampton court, etc., purely on the market, it would take several developed countries pooling their resources together.  those palaces were built with conscripted labor, with craftsmen either guilted by the church or scared by the nobility into doing it basically for free.  those who insisted on getting paid were paid whatever the fuck the lord or bishop felt like, because who were they going to run to?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson