Deaf Belgian twins going blind choose to be euthanized
Offline Not sure how I feel about this, but putting it out there to see what others think.
Distraught about going blind, 45-year-old deaf twin brothers from Belgium chose to be euthanized because they couldn't bear not to see one another, according to reports from Flanders.
Marc and Eddy Verbessem of Putte died Dec. 14 by lethal injection at Brussels University Hospital. Voluntary euthanasia has been legal in Belgium since September 2002.
The doctor who presided over the euthanasia described the twins as being "very happy."
"It was a relief to see the end of their suffering," David Dufour told Germany's RTL TV network. "They had a cup of coffee in the hall, it went well, and a rich conversation. The separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful. At the last, there was a little wave of their hands, and then they were gone."
The twins, who were born deaf, had spent their entire lives together. Both were cobblers, and they never married or had children.
"They lived together, did their own cooking and cleaning. You could eat off the floor. Blindness would have made them completely dependent," their older brother, Dirk, told the LondonTelegraph. "They did not want to be in an institution.
"Their great fear was that they would no longer be able to see each other," he said. "That was for my brothers unbearable."
He said he and their parents tried to talk them out of it, but they were persuaded to let them die as they wanted.
MORE AT http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/01/14/deaf-belgian-twins-going-blind-euthanized/1834199/
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
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I believe in voluntary euthanasia and that it should be legal for doctors to assist the sick or the handicapped.
I'm not sure how to handle people who are depressed. I guess if they try to at least see a shrink, try meds, therapy, etc, if none of the works I would be supportive of their decision too.
I do. It's a good thing. It takes three doctors to evaluate a case like this, btw.
Let's have a listen to people who disagree :
Not sure if anyone catholic should be talking about Belgian kids and suicide, considering what happened in their last scandal over here, but sure, let's stick to the topic at hand :
Unfortunately, kids can also suffer constant and unbearable pain, without hope of improvement or effective treatment. Ignoring them, or quoting the bible at them, and maybe visiting them for a while when they're doped up, so their screams of pain don't disturb you too much, is always going to be an option you can choose. What exactly is so "troubling" about letting the kid have a choice too ?
Suicides are caused by "postmodern culture" ? Makes you go blind and deaf, does it ? Gives you cancer ? No such thing as clinical depression before "postmodern culture" ?
It's also possible to do harm by not doing anything.
There is no "liberal method of calculus" being used. Nice try, though. What's next ? Nazis ?
Oh fuck..
Actually, it's very easy to avoid a comparison that doesn't make any sense.
i think there should be a ton of controls: psychiatric evaluations done by several different specialists, interviews with various friends and family members (if there are any), etc., mainly to minimize the possibility of someone being manipulated into it by greedy or angry relatives.
other than that, i have no problem with it whatsoever.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
it's not like this doesn't go on anyway. i've heard that it's very common even in america for doctors to prescribe extra morphine with the unspoken understanding of what it's going to be used for.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
All in all, I'm in support. As others have said, you want controls to keep people who are transiently depressed from commiting suicide. Other than that, if the issue is a serious as it was for these two, they will probably do it anyway, so it's nice to give them a clean option that doesn't involve someone walking in on their two bodies when they check in after not hearing from them in a while.
well, if i had a source i wouldn't say "i've heard." i recall it was someone who had a dying relative.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"Pain management" for the dying is standard procedure in the UK, though not without controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient
I have to support it, as I'd want the same if I were to go blind. Almost everything I do and enjoy is dependant on my sight and mobility, and to a slightly lesser extent my hearing and the rest of my senses. I'd be thoroughly miserable and useless to anyone, especially myself, if I lost it.
Power to those who fight through it, but don't expect it from me.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
My viewpoint a well.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
My wife passed away in 2011 after a long battle with breast cancer. Towards the end she optioned to not be put on life support (Had previously signed a letter, to this effect, with her doctor), and was given a steady morphine drip increase until she passed. Granted, she wasn't going to live much longer, probably a matter of hours maybe a day or so difference, but it was most certainly a controlled ending as opposed to letting her suffer further.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
my heartfelt sympathies. i've had at least five relatives affected by cancer, and four of them succumbed. i've seen how it eats people away. with a family history like that, i fully expect than son of a bitch cancer to come for me one day as well, and i intend to give it a relentless fight, but if the time comes when i can fight no longer, i hope people will be so kind as to offer me the dignified way out.
if they won't, they better make sure i'm not within five miles of a gun, because i hate cancer so much i'll put a fuckin' bullet in my own head just to cheat it of my life.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
When someone is suffering to such a degree that death becomes the preference, it takes a special kind of evil to inhibit that act.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
I have to agree with both of you on that. I lost my father and grandfather to cancer, and it was a painful and miserable way to go. In both cases, they refused to continue seeking treatment and told the doctors their primary concern was to minimalize the pain. Both of them got a steady increase in their morphine dosages until the end.
Some members of the famil tried to browbeat them into continuing treatments and I had to say that I agreed with my dad 100% when he said : "I am not going to make it, I've got about 3 months max, I can't even get around and do anything that brings me any pleasure anymore, and I want it to end." Can't say I could argue with him and can't say that if I ever get cancer, I wouldn't want to just opt out.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
I can back this up with personal experience. My brother was a doctor in the US for ten years before moving to Mexico and he has told me that it was general practice. Of course, that only means it was at his hospital and all I have is anecdotal evidence, but prescribing extra morphine is a good way to give someone the option without risk to to the doctor's license.
As far as the issue at hand I believe people should have the right to commit suicide and if they need assistance I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal to help them- even if they are committing suicide for depression which is a disease that can be extremely painful for a person to live with.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I
Pancreatic cancer is what finally got my Dad. He and my mom who is still alive were/are pretty religious. One oddity from my father that he repeated a few times was that he thought people who could commit suicide were brave. It always was hard for me to reconcile that with his religious beliefs. But it sure let me know he had given it some deep thought. He did stick it out til the end though refusing treatment or major pain killers because of my mom. In the same situation if she had already died, I think he might have done different.
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
Does any one else find the following logic flawed?
"Oh doctor, what is wrong with Scooby?"
"Sorry, but the cancer has gotten in to his brain, lungs, liver... he doesn't have much time and is in a lot of pain"
"What can I do? I love him so much"
"If you love him put him down. It's the most humane thing to do. It shows you really love him"
"OK Lets do it"
------------------------------------
"Oh doctor, what is wrong with my husband?"
"Sorry, but the cancer has gotten in to his brain, lungs, liver... he doesn't have much time and is in a lot of pain"
"What can I do? I love him so much"
"Well, we can fill him full of pain meds so he is a lifeless lump. His living will says no food or water, so we will just let him linger in bed while he dies from a slow and drug induced death".
"Oh, that's wonderful. I'm such a good wife. I love my husband so much. At least I'll be able to see and talk to him for a few more days".
"Well you won't be able to talk to him. The drugs we have to use will put him in to a coma. He won't respond and he won't hear you".
"Oh, well, that's ok. His family and friends can come say good bye. Oh, how much is this going to cost us?"
"Don't worry, your insurance will cover it, but we will be charging them ten grand a week in inflated charges. Our hospital will make a killing on this"
Very valid points digitalbeachbum.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
been saying that for years. as the son of a farmer, i've seen bullets put in the brains of horses with compound fractures, cows who had been jumped by coyotes and their guts were literally hanging out, and dogs who swallowed industrial carpeting and were having their insides literally shredded. it sucks, nobody likes doing it, but any farmer who will let it continue because they're too soft-hearted (i.e. emotionally selfish) to do the right thing is looked at with a great deal of scorn.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
It is a pretty stupid situation. I too have pondered it over the years. The only area we treat animals better than ourselves is in killing them when they are severely injured or dying.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
It makes me wonder if we have sane people making the rules. I don't think we have had sane people making the rules since, oh maybe Thomas Jefferson? After him it sort of went down hill little by little.
In a somewhat related story, this guy Aso, is quite a charmer.
http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2013/jan/22/elderly-hurry-up-die-japanese
The aging population should force this issue
Religion Kills !!!
Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/
Ummm... isn't he "elderly"?
Star Trek TNG had an episode with a people who suicided at 60 so as to curtail expenses and as a population control.
Personally can't agree with that. Might as well kill all disabled people while you're at it. Then the jews. And then the Mexicans. Then the asshole next door.
Once you start wiping out demographics it becomes easy to wipe out more.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Speaking of which, did anyone see this article about what the Japanese Prime Minister said ?
He wishes the elderly would "just hurry up and die."
http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2013/jan/22/elderly-hurry-up-die-japanese
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
ROFLMAO !
For some reason, I suspected that was coming.
Call me psychic.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
It is a natural consequence when you demand that younger generations pay for the medical care of older generations. Sooner or later they start to wonder if the old geezers are worth the money.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X