Incest - A fun game for the whole family
Offline Question, why is it banned? Despite the silly title this is a serious question.
I mean between two consenting adults. Consent seems to be why we ban all the other sex crimes we have, at least the ones I know of. It seems to me that it is banned purely because people think it is disgusting which does not seem to be a good enough reason for me.
I have heard it can mess up a resulting child but I have also heard that as long as it is not multiple generations of incest then the baby is no more likely to be born messed up. And even if it was the case that 100% of the time a baby is born with 5 arms or whatever why would homosexual incest be illegal? Why wouldn't it be the case that having a incest baby is illegal but not incest itself?
No matter how I look at it I cannot see the justification for making incest illegal provided it is between two consenting adults.
P.S. Please do not mistake my intention here, I am not saying it should be unbanned, I just want to know why it is banned. I mean sure if there is no good reason for it being illegal then unban it, however I am just looking for the reason.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
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I believe it is more than just nurture, we have a natural aversion from finding extremely familiar people sexually attractive over long periods of time. I was reading some studies on this (vague memory, no links sorry do your own googling) that pretty much concluded that siblings that were separated early in life and later reunited did not find incest to be abhorrent behavior, where siblings growing up together did. The evolutionary implications and advantages of not shagging your sibling is are obvious. Tribes that thought shagging your sibling is the way to go have likely not evolved a comprehensive enough immune system to survive over many generations.
This is also proven on the divorce rate and failing sexual attraction in couples that are married over a long time. The same psychological mechanism is at hand, but there is no social taboo attached to it to make it obvious.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
All great but still, none of that is reason to pass a law banning it.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Ya, I guess you're right, it's just such an ugly subject, and it is very seldom a consensual situation. This is one of those situations that just flows from pragmatism.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
the reason I bring this up is this story
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/offbeat/11338004/couple-discover-brother-sister/
I just don't see why they should separate. I mean sure if they feel incest is wrong great separate but I don't see why they should be legally obliged to.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I'm sure they can live together, but I can see how a law allowing them to legally married would be abused. As I've said I can see very few situations where this is consensual, this happens to be one of them.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
There were common practices among ancient royalty of marriage between family members.
For instance, Cleopatra was originally married to her brother Ptolemy, before Julius Caesar and the Romans overthrew his reign.
Now, whether those marriages were platonic and non-sexual or not is something that I do not know for certain.
For instance, in the Egyptian legends of Goddess Isis and Osiris. They were brother and sister, from whom Horus was born.
So the concept of brother and sister relations is certainly nothing new.
Here's my question:
Could incest be outlawed due to the dangers that it might spread to potential offspring ?
I don't remember where I read it, but it seemed to me like I had heard that children born from incestous relationships had higher risks of birth defects and such. I don't know how true that is.
The idea of it, to me, is grotesque. As I am sure that it would be to alot of people in our culture, considering the fact that it has such a taboo status. As to the ultimate reason why it is outlawed, I can not be sure.
If I am not mistaken, I also remember reading about medieval royalty marrying into each other's families. Now, whether this was through actual bloodlines or not, I can't remember.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Yes.
Inbreeding decreases the variety of genes in the gene pool, and there is a slightly higher chance of birth defects in babies born from closely related parents because it tends to bring out undesirable recessive traits. As I recall from empirical studies, siblings that were separated at birth and then met as adults were dramatically more likely to be attracted to each other than two random people. Birds of a feather flock together. So, evolution does not automatically make us less attracted to people that we're closely related to, but makes us less attracted to people that we're around all the time. I would guess that it was easier to do and about as effective.
Incest is outlawed probably because people are naturally repulsed by it, and because our society has decided that it is repulsive.
Personally, I really don't feel grossed out when I think of a brother and sister having sex. Although, I do seem to feel something when I think of them having a child.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Incest was made illegal in multiple states after a test of "idiocy*" and family history was conducted on "idiots*", and found a distinct percentage of problems could be traced back to incestuous relationships.
* = Antique term describing mental or physical retardation.
I think, however, that the phenomena that makes your siblings unattractive is not remotely universal. Due to the heavy taboo, reliable information is uncommon simply because it is an underground activity and severely looked down on by the majority. But I suspect incest is relatively common despite this. And I also suspect our culture knows it, albeit subconsciously. Almost every family in western society makes a large effort to ensure brothers and sisters aren't roomed together and are not left alone unsupervised for significant periods of time when they approach the age of sexual maturation.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I think the Westermark effect is universally documented. There is a critical stage of development wherein individuals who are raised in close proximity (whether biologically related or not) leads to incest avoidance. What is paradoxical is that biological siblings separated from birth and then reunited later in life demonstrate a strong sexual attraction.
So guys, if Megan Fox was your sibling since birth, the very thought of having sex with her is akin to eating a meal consisting of dead earthworms and cockroaches mixed in with cat feces. Sex with a hot sibling is only in erotic anime fantasies. In reality, your dick would be totally limp if you were raised with a hot looking sister from birth.
sorry to ressurect a dead post but I kind of wondered what you think of this after reading this article. I kind of like to hear your opinions.
I think a law against incest sexual activities is ridiculous in a rational society. But as butterbattle (the think tank here) put it there is nothing wrong with that. But there is a slightly higher chance of birth defects in families with recessive defective gene pool.
I don't think this is reason enough for society (laws) to have a say on what 2 consensual adults do on their private life. Real stories about brothers separated from birth actually exist to tell us there is something wrong with our notion of gross.
I can accept a law saying that 2 siblings cannot conceive a child but I think is wrong form us to judge what others do in their beds. No matter if others are brothers or parents.
...Let me check what are your thoughts on necrophilia...
EoD.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
There is a scandal going on in Cincinnati involving the now former head cheerleader of the Bengals Sarah Jones and a student (she was a teacher at her day job). Apparently the stupid kid couldn't keep his mouth shut and bragged to all of his friends.
Do you know what I would have given at age 16 to be "sexually abused" by her?
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
your right arm and both kidneys?
not my 'ideal body type' but some guys go for the ex-cheerleader/"Swimsuit Edition" female figure.
Again, in some parts of Europe it's perfectly legal for teenaged guys to go trolling about for yummy 20-somethings and cougars.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
One thing is if a woman in a small town gets divorced and doesn't want to be gossiped about, so instead of a man from the outside she starts banging her teenage son, I heard that happens. It's a little messed up idea if you ask me. Or maybe it's nice they have such a close family relationship instead of getting on each other's nerves after all these years, depends how you look at it. But if it's consenting, it doesn't harm the society at all. I think the law should see to that.
And when we have this topic already... It's sad that our legal system is a little off, as usual. Most of crimes of rape happen among people who know each other, or even are friends. They don't get reported, because there's no evidence and if that fails, that person will still be around. Also, I heard that most of child sexual violence isn't caused by pedophiles, but simply by rapists who haven't got the guts to assault a grown woman. Pedophiles are basically normal people, they've got feelings too and don't especially want to hurt anybody. There's a joke around here,
"What's the difference between a pedagogue and a pedophile?"
"The pedophile likes the children."
Well, any thoughts? I might be wrong about something.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I like to think I'm pretty good at projecting my mind to an objective state outside of "normal" human viewpoint. Many things just come down to our natural chemistry. For instance: pussy, umm umm good! But if you step outside of your natural chemical urges, the vagina or penis is really a disgusting thing. Just think about any other animal's vagina. Anyone who would stick their face in a chimp's gash just ain't fuckin right.
Well that may be a little extreme, but I would think one would have the same chemistry with their sister. But what I think doesn't mean shit. Some people just have different physical urges. Homosexuality is no different. It just comes down to the relevance of right and wrong. Almost all of us would agree that having sex with a young child is absolutely wrong, but there are people who have these undeniable urges. We call it mental illness and unacceptable.
But where is that fine line with incest? I have a few smokin hot cousins. One was a cheerleader for Tampa Bay. When I see her "I have to turn my head until my darkness goes"-Stones. Honestly, the only reason I wouldn't do it is because of social norms.
Ironically, I think it took some open mindedness to see how one might want to bone their sister, to make these laws. You can't just think "oh nobody would do that, we don't need laws for that stuff". Sometimes social norms are just for the overall best. IF we didn't have this one we would all be high on chromosomes. The law has to come in for the child's subsequent rights. People can't be allowed to haphazardly toss the dice on having a healthy child. Sure some Mom's smoke a little crack while they are pregnant and still have a healthy kid, but no one should give it a try.
AS far as marriage goes, I don't believe in it and find it to be irrelevant to almost anything. If two brothers wanna get married and be miserable like everybody else, I say "happy days gay bro's"
"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia
It's not banned every where, there are places it is legal, with considerations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest#Laws
The studies I have heard is that nature has a way of preventing or helping to reduce the male and female of the same loins from being attracted to each other through pheromones. Studies have taken sweat and put it on a rag then had brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, etc all sniff it. A very high percentage of people were very repulsed by the smell of their own blood relative.
http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/9/1269.full
Wedekind, C., Seebeck, T., Bettens, F., Paepke, A. 1995. Proceedings: Biological Sciences. Vol 260, 245-249.
Wedekind, C., Fürl, S. 1997. Proceedings: Biological Sciences. Vol 264, 1471-1479.
This is again one of those things which are marked as right and wrong but in reality it is wrong only when it is forced, no different than rape.
Adults shouldn't be fucking around with young adults or kids and vice verse, if two consenting adults want to fuck each other or even have children then let them (even if they are brother and sister).
Personally, I know for a fact I am repulsed by my sister. I can't even, for a second, imagine what it might be like to do "it" with her. It's sick to me.
When I was sixteen I had an older woman take a liking to me. She was six years older and a red head, stacked top to bottom.
Once day she kissed me like no other girl had (not even in my fantasies) and I was too stupid to know.
Several times she tried to get me in to bed but I always seemed to force my way out of it.
I was really... really... really stupid when I was sixteen.