Why?
Posted on: October 12, 2011 - 4:41pm
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Why?
If there truly was a God (Ha)! Why would I be in this dead end job, in a loveless relationship with two whiny kids? I wish there was something to fall back on to give me strength butt, alas, there is nothing. Nothing but a clear and void empty space between my birth and the wothless pile of cells I call myself. Trust me, I hold no false hope, no savior from above, no miracle. I just wish I could extract myself from this earthly prison called life.
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I sense happiness in this thread...
You do?
I think that the problem is that God needs more janitors, and he's preparing. Call it training.
being that I'm actually a little scared right now
what do you want me to tell to you? don't hurt me please don't hurt meWelcome!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
All I want is a little GD respect. Is that to much to ask? My back is killing me - hauling around this family financially and emotionally. Yes, I'd like like to go out with the fella's on Wedneday bowling night to blow off some steam, but, nooooooo, not acceptable. I'm bringin home the bacon, fryin it up and servin it to all the little pions that consist of my 'family'. Do they say thank you? NOT! I have nobody to turn to. I have a friend named Jub that understands what I'm going through but he is so busy with work I really can't bother him. It's sad.
I don't know how to analyze what you wrote... If it was for me I'd say you committed several non sequiturs, but I don't have sons and daughters, nor a wife, so I would leave logic out of here for now.
Still you have not said why you couldn't go out on wednesday night.
In the end I think you only need to talk to your family. Understand your actual family (the one with your partner), the one from where you come from, the one from where your partner comes from... Get informations, that's the only way in which you can understand. Sorry if it's not much.
If your family is not thankful to you for your work maybe it's because they don't have responsibilities.
I'm pretty sure your wife (I guess it's "wife" ) has her back killing her too. Do you know your partner could be thinking the same thing this very moment? That you do not thank her enough?
Lose your attitude. Just because there is no purpose to life doesn't mean you cant give it meaning. And if you have an honest job, no matter how "dead end" you think it is, if others cant appreciate that it is an honest job, FUCK THEM. There is no such thing as a "dead end job". There are just people who are snobs who look down on those with less.
Now, if you want more in life, that is fine too, no one is going to fault you for that. But don't feel sorry for yourself because currently you make less. Poverty is not a crime like some want to treat it.
Material things come and go and end the end you cant take it with you. Live your life and do the best you can and accept yourself as you are, not how others think you should be. Your self worth is what you make it, not what other people tell you it should be.
I've spent far too much of my life trying to be what others say I should be. Life is not a script. Go for what you want in life, but don't measure yourself by others and dont expect others to be like you.
You find if you do that, you can do what you want and be happy without the delusions of any utopia someone else might sell you. And if you want more in life, it wont set you up for disappointment, if you don't always get what you want.
One lesson my mother got right with me was "there are things that you want, and things that you need". Having kids there is a minimum you will need. But whatever comes after that and beyond that should be introspective. It will allow you to go for more without getting depressed or becoming jaded if it doesn't always work out.
Just be you. Life is ultimately a crap shoot. Just do the best you can and don't judge yourself or others.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Hi God Dammit!
Welcome to the forums.
I have another question for ya: Why not?
I'm not against suicide, but I would never recommend it (that's up for the individual to decide). What does it actually solve? Not much of anything really. Not unless you can be very very very sure that pain and/or suffering will never be able to turn around in the future. Not unless you've absolutely, positively run out of any other options.
Options
And there are almost always other options. It just takes a bit of thinking and imagination to realize what the alternatives are. And sometimes it takes a bit of time, too, to let yourself see other alternatives.
Whatever it is you're facing in life (I'm speaking generally here, not specifically about you), there are different ways to approach the problem. Some ways are better, and some are worse. The better ways are the ones that bring you closer to a resolution of the problem, with a greater chance of success, a lower risk of failure, a greater reward, or a lesser cost.
The problem with death/suicide is that it is absolute. A one-way ticket, no turning back. Despite what religions claim, there is no good reason to think there's a 'life' after life. Such a concept doesn't even make sense at all. If there's a 'life' after life, then there is no after life, there is just life, no death, no end, no 'after'.
But we know things end, and lives are one class of things that end. And they end in such a way that the end is permanent.
And so, the potential cost of death is total. You lose everything. The potential risk of death is 100%. Once you die, that's it. Game over. No replays.
This is the one and only life you will ever get. Better make the best of it, God Dammit! (pun intended)
Change
If you're not happy with your life right now, it's clear that the only way is to change it. What do you really want out of life? That's a big question, and not easily answered. It's a question that I ask myself over and over, and I'm constantly updating my answer as things become clearer to me.
If you're not happy right now, what would make you happy? Really happy, not just fake happy. Happy like when you were a young child and remember feeling really happy.
That kind of happy is possible. You know it, because you once felt it. It's possible again. Maybe not quite as intensely as a young child can feel happiness, but it is possible to climb out of a depression and to feel a real, genuine happiness again. Sometimes it is very difficult, I won't deny that. Sometimes it's a major struggle. Sometimes we can't do it ourselves. And there's nothing wrong with getting help from others.
Help
I delayed getting help for myself, because I thought I could figure it out on my own. I couldn't, and I now realize that there's no shame in admitting that to myself. The problems of the world are big problems. No single person can solve them all. The reason humans are the dominant species on the planet is because we are really good at helping each other, cooperating, and solving bigger problems than any one of us could solve on our own. It is a human thing to need help, ask for help, get help, and eventually to give help to others in return for the help we've been given along the way.
We are here if you want to talk some things out (there is the Freethinking Anonymous forum which is a semi-private safe haven for freethinker-to-freethinker discussion, if you don't want to worry about having to defend your views from wandering theists), but honestly there is only so much an online forum of average people can do.
If you are really having suicidal or semi-suicidal thoughts and feelings, I would highly recommend getting in touch with a local mental health professional who can offer much better support than we can. I'll do my best to answer anything I can answer, but I'm not a professional and not qualified to give any sort of medical advice. Everything in this post is my opinion only, although it is based on quite a bit of personal experience with depression, anxiety, and getting help for my own issues.
My answer
Philosophically speaking, the thing that keeps me going is my sense of wonder. As in, curiosity, a desire to know and understand, a desire to learn, and to overcome whatever obstacles I find in my way to find some sort of 'better future' for myself and others. A desire to find out what's over the horizon. The universe is a fucking amazing place to live in. Even better when you learn about it, and start to understand how it really works.
And that can (and should) include understanding how our minds work, and how--just like we can have bodily injuries and illnesses like a broken arm, diabetes, heart disease, a flu/cold--our brains are very complex bodily organs, and can get 'sick' just like any other bodily organ. And there's nothing wrong or shameful in that. Mental health is unfortunately seen in a bad light by lots of people, but there's no good reason for that. Just like you would take care of your bodily health if you had a broken arm or something, it's important to also look after your mental health when you're experiencing a depression, or anxiety, or anything else.
My sense of wonder leads me to seek out better solutions to my problems. I wondered why I couldn't be as happy as I used to feel, why my career 'successes' felt so empty, etc. I wondered what kinds of answers others have found to these questions. I kept running into obstacles, but I kept wondering: How can I overcome this one? Maybe I should take a step back, and try a different way? Who else could I talk to? Surely, there must be a better way! There is. You just have to keep looking, trying new things, finding what works for you, and building on those little wins.
Questions
The sense of wonder leads us to ask questions. This is a good thing. Perhaps the best kinds of questions to ask are the questions we ask of ourselves. How can we be really sure of anything? What if we could be wrong? How do we really know what we think we know? Questions are a good thing. So, coming back to your question.
You asked us, Why?
I would like to ask you, Why not?
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Well, all I can say is God Damnit, I have problems as well.
But, I look at it this way, since this life is the only that I am going to have, without any angels, demons, spirits or
other entities around me. I might as well get as much as I can out of it while it lasts. Problems come and go.They could be worse or better.I know people that would give anything if they could only have my life and I know people that would probably kill themselves if they had my life.
It's all relative perspective.
Whenever I get down and out, I always just remind myself that things could be worse. I hate it when people tell me that, who don't know my situation.
But internally, I know, that no matter how bad things can become in my life. They could always get worse.
Shit man, I know a biker bro of mine that lost his wife and kids, in a car wreck, on the same day, while in the process of being unemployed and two month's behind on his rent.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Ummm, has it not occurred to you that you have many opportunities where you could do just that?...
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Hi redneF, speaking with my 'mod hat' off, please don't encourage that kind of thing, even in jest. The reality is that depression is real, suicide is real, and people are real (even on the internet). I for one would never want to be in a situation where I had even 'joked' about suicide to someone who expressed hints of suicidal thoughts, and later find out they had actually committed suicide. Even if my comments could not be directly connected to the suicide, I would still feel that I had done something wrong. I don't want to 'judge' you here, but I do hope you can see where I'm coming from.
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I believe a recent study found that 90% of suicidal people were discovered to share a potential "suicidal gene".
Even if overturned, there is plenty of evidence supporting the fact that people who are depressed are not in complete control of their faculties, and participate in behaviours they would normally have nothing to do with.
It's hard for those of us not subjected to physiological imbalances to sympathise with depressed people, but an effort should be made. Working in a psychiatric setting for about ten years allowed me insights that I'd not have had otherwise. I pity these people. Most often they don't want to kill themselves, but when depressed some feel compelled to. A patient once told me it was like an insatiable urge. And a specific one at that. You aren't just compelled to kill yourself, but to do so in a specific way that can vary from time to time and person to person.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ya, I do know where you're coming from, but, to be honest, this smacks of a POE. However, I did choose my words carefully. The fact is that there are many 'solutions' to circumstances which have nothing to do with putting a premature end to one's life, but everything to do with 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going'.
At the very least, if someone is feeling like this, they should go see their doctor. A public forum filled with strangers is simply not the place to turn to.
Actually, your post dovetails perfectly with where I was going to continue with my response to natural. There is also a recent study that there appears to be a 'warrior gene' that certain people have, that others may not. It would explain a lot as I've always been wired in a way that made me suspect that I was wired to fight till the death, and 'Never Say Die'.
This is true.
+1
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
Thanks, redneF. I agree with you about the Poe thing; I'm just not personally willing to take that risk, speaking for myself. Your other points are cogent as well.
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
is in a perfectly normal marriage with 2 perfectly normal kids and a perfectly normal controlling wife.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Welcome God Dammit.
Do yourself a favor and study the science behind depression. Why it exists.
Look on the bright side about being depressed:
“Depression’s Upside: Is There an Evolutionary Purpose to Feeling Really Sad?”
And look into new treatments:
http://www.neuronetics.com/prod-system.aspx
I always say there's no problem a little stimulation of the nucleus accumbens can't make better.
(mod edit: removed formatting from link; use the Remove Format button e.g. if colours are difficult to see.)
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Hello OP,
I think I understand where you are coming from. I too have 3 small children (had twins the second time
) a more than full time job, and no real life outside work/family. I work about 70 hours a week, I study for about 10-20, and usually get about 5 hours of sleep a night to make room in my day. I'll tell you what works for me, and it may very well not work for you. First of all, I LOATHE self pity. In my opinion it is the root of all evil, the catalyst of all depression, and overall one of the most useless and energy wasteful emotion. Don't get me wrong, I'm prone to it the same as everyone else, I just catch myself and slap myself out of it.
The rest of it is philosophy. I follow a pseudo taoistic personal philosophy in that I concentrate on the moment and task at hand. The good ole cliche "giving it 100%" is the way I try to do things from the most insignificant to the most monumental. I other words if I clean the kitchen floor (which I do every other day, it's on my list of chores) I do that to the best of my ability. I clear my head and try to find the harmony of the action. When I work on a solution for secure mobile tunnel I apply the exact same philosophy. There really is no difference on how I approach both tasks, I see it as a challenge and do the best to perfect it.
Some may call that work ethics, but I call it life ethics. I treat parenting and marriage the same way, and it has worked so far.
This may not work for you, but you really need a perspective change. Your wife and kids depend on you, and your little pity party is not helping anyone, least of all yourself. Take a moment each day, sit down, close your eyes and empty your thoughts. I usually think of a perfect metallic cube spinning in dark empty space, I imagine it as vividly as possible and when I have diverted all of my attention to it, I make it slowly fly away. When it is gone, there is nothing left, and hence emptiness and silence. Call it meditation, just don't fall for any of that spiritual bull shit, mambo jumbo crap. If you only get 10 seconds of intellectual silence it is usually enough to calm you down. I try to get from 1 to 5 minutes each day.
You'll be ok, you just have to work at it a little bit.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc