Hello
Offline Good Day. 
I am a Christian that was just informed about your forum and thought I'd drop by.
I hope there will be interesting discussions.
.
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Offline whirlwind wrote:
Thinking in a supernatural way, or seeing in a supernatural way, is knowing God. I first saw, really saw, His creation and that drew me to Him. Now He teaches me through His Word. He lives in me.....
I'm sorry to hear your life is based on an assertion.
I saw life on earth first and fully when I realised I was a colony of cooperative single celled organisms that had evolved by chance in a boring neighborhood on the outskirts of a dull galaxy. Now I read most every new discovery about life and the universe I possibly can and debatable truth lives in me.
The amazingness of a sentient existence in this place and being raised in a group have taught me awe and morality - just as they have you - misdirect your humanity as you will.
My life isn't based on assertion but rather on truth.
Even if you had not been "raised in a group," where you were taught "awe and morality" your soul would make decisions....
- Romans 2:11-15 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained n the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
So, even if not taught morality...one would either do or not do what they know "by nature" to be good or evil.
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Offline I'll try, but my 9 year experience of debate online the only new things I learn from theists is how they re package their arguments. We are tough to please as far as evidence is concerned. We don't simply buy the car because it is a pretty cherry red, we look under the hood too.
You have stepped into the lions den here. We will knock your claims around. Just warning you.
Evidence is all around you...the problem is in recognizing it for what it is. We simply accept the wonder of this world without wondering. Instead we attribute it to some strange happenstance.
We should all "look under the hood" of Christianity and atheism. One is truth. One is life.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
As for stepping into the lion's den...
Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
A group of lions you may be but even if you turn into an enemy...I don't worry.
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Offline Atheistextremist wrote:whirlwind wrote:
Thinking in a supernatural way, or seeing in a supernatural way, is knowing God. I first saw, really saw, His creation and that drew me to Him. Now He teaches me through His Word. He lives in me.....
I'm sorry to hear your life is based on an assertion.
I saw life on earth first and fully when I realised I was a colony of cooperative single celled organisms that had evolved by chance in a boring neighborhood on the outskirts of a dull galaxy. Now I read most every new discovery about life and the universe I possibly can and debatable truth lives in me.
The amazingness of a sentient existence in this place and being raised in a group have taught me awe and morality - just as they have you - misdirect your humanity as you will.
Even if you had not been "raised in a group," where you were taught "awe and morality" your soul would make decisions....
- Romans 2:11-15 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained n the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
So, even if not taught morality...one would either do or not do what they know "by nature" to be good or evil.
.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
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Offline Evidence is all around you...the problem is in recognizing it for what it is. We simply accept the wonder of this world without wondering. Instead we attribute it to some strange happenstance.
This is a very simplistic and childish view of the world. Remember that I am attacking the claim, not you.
I am not saying you are being childish. I am saying that the view is outdated and born out of ignorance. It is like claiming Santa to be real because there are presents under the tree. You outgrew that and you can grow out of your god belief as well.
I see lots of "wonder" in the world and universe. Bob Spence here blew my mind away when he told me about one of the largest suns in the universe. It's surface if we replaced our sun with it, would extend out past Saturn.
What I don't do, which you do, is assign life to magic and ancient myth.
I see the wonder in my cat when he curls up on my lap, but the reality is that he will die someday. Knowing that he will die doesn't involve good or evil, much less magic or myth. Nor does it take away the enjoyment I have now while he is alive.
The good I see in life does not cause me to ignore the bad. AND NEITHER are caused by a cosmic comic book battle between a man in a white robe vs a man with a pitchfork.
You don't need belief in your god any more than the Egyptians needed to believe the sun was a god that cared about them. You simply think you do because the idea of having a super hero is appealing to you. The problem is that there is no such thing as a super hero.
That does not mean that there is no value in life. It does not mean that we cant be good or do good. It just means we don't need to insert superstition in as an answer.
People once held the popular belief that the earth was flat. That ignorance was childish and at the same time prevented them from finding the truth. It was only when people refused to simply accept "what feels good at the time" THAT we questioned set beliefs and social norms and uncovered the truth to reality.
The emotion of feeling things is natural, but is immature when it is not measured by taking oneself outside personal bias and actually testing what is around you to insure quality of data. Kids believe in Santa, not because Santa is real, but because of the emotional appeal and their immaturity allows the parents to sell that to them.
It was understandable long ago that people held superstitions in polytheism and monotheism because people were not scientifically mature, much less psychologically introspective. But with doctors today, and cell phones and putting man on the moon, I find no need to try to measure reality with ancient myth.
Even Einstien called the Abrahamic book "Childish". He wasn't calling the people who follow that god childish, just that humanity has come a long way since that book was written and it needs to be scrapped for the better data we have now.
I said I was going to knock your claims around. I am simply trying to point out to you that you don't need a fictional being to see prettiness or have a "sense of awe". You've lived without Vishnu and Thor quite fine and you don't need any form of Santa for adults.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline Atheistextremist wrote:whirlwind wrote:Good Day.
I am a Christian that was just informed about your forum and thought I'd drop by.
I hope there will be interesting discussions.
In honesty I have to confess that many of the discussions are not interesting. We spend all our time arguing about the nature of supernatural/subjective vs empirical evidence. Ultimately these discussions come down to the old 'is not/is too' position with the godly insisting that evolution is a lie, the lord exists outside this space time and we all argue because we crave a life of sin. It's quite pathetic.
It is difficult for the two, the supernatural and the natural, to come together.
- 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
- 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's widom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spirtual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Hopefully, discussions of the spiritual vs. natural will provide understanding.
I don't think you (at least not all of you
) crave a life of sin.
.
"You can't write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes, so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whip cream."--Frank Zappa
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Hello, welcome to the forum.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Welcome to the forum.
Thank you.
May I ask, when responding to a post...how do I subscribe to it?
Hmmm.
There should be a "Subscribe Post" link underneath the original post.
When creating a new post, there should be a check-box you can select or de-select to subscribe to it.
However, I think when you just do a reply or quote, there's no obvious way to do it at the same time as you are composing/posting the reply. Just click the 'subscribe post' link under the OP after you've replied.
Also, there's the Recent Posts link on the nav bar to the left, which makes it easy to keep on top of the latest posts on the entire forum.
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
If you click on your username, then click on "track", then you'll see the topics you posted in and the same goes if you click on another user's name.
................and what kind of christian art thouist? Canadian atheists here, eh?
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
I art a child of God kind of Christian. (American...deep South, ya'll)
Welcome Brother!
That's the kind I was, in NC. They call us "charismatic" categorically. We called ourselves the"Holiness" faith, and detracters called us "Holy Rollers", to which we responded, "I'd rather Roll into Heaven rather than slide into Hell!"
That sound familiar? Or were your folk different?
Very different. My mother was a fallen away Catholic while dad never commented on anything about God. We went to church once or twice a year.
I still don't go to church but I do study, I do believe and I am a Christian.
Thank you for the welcome.
Hello and welcome to the forum.
So what about Christianity seems to hold more water then any other religion for you? As a life long atheist, it's hard for me to grasp what draws people to specific religions, or supernatural thinking in general, so all I can do to get a better understanding of the situation is to ask. I'm curious about what things you think Christianity got right while all the others religions and gods (Allah, Krishna, Buddha, Thor, Zeus, etc.) got them wrong. Why do you think Christianity is correct and not some other faith?
I hope so too.
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
I am going to give you the same speech I give all theists upon coming here. We know you believe, you have already said that. We may end up liking you as an individual, we don't know, you have only posted here for a day.
This website is primarily as an oasis for atheists. Believers OF ALL LABELS are welcome here. But just to warn you ahead of time, we won't simply go "isn't that nice". We do ask hard and even blasphemous questions about your claims.
This is about your claims NOT YOU.
Some here will take a library approach to you, others, like me, are not afraid of a boxing ring. Treat us all as individuals and UNDERSTAND again, that this is NOT about you, we don't know you personally.
If you expect to spend any time here you will read things you are not used to hearing and may offend you, But the attacks we make that "offend you" are about your claims, NOT YOU the person.
Look at it this way.
If someone came up to you and said, "The moon is made of cheese"
You might think to yourself, "bullshit".
If someone claimed, "The Chargers won the super bowl"
And I responded, "Bullshit, the Packers did"
Am I expressing hate for the person, or am I calling them out on their error?
We look at your claims AND all claims that lack evidence equally. To us, if you claimed UFOs or Loc Ness or Ouija boards were credible claims, we will respond with criticism of such claims and even blasphemy of such claims.
We promise you we are not singling you out nor do we hate you. But what comes out of your mouth does not deserve respect, "just because"
My mother for example may love me, but I know darn well she doesn't like everything I say or do. Same with my co-workers and friends.
What IS important to us is what you claim your evidence is for your position. This has NOTHING to do with you as a person, just the claims you make.
I hope this helps. Just treat us all as individuals and don't take our criticism personally, just try to learn from what you read here. If it changes nothing about your position, it should at a minimum allow you to see that we are not the stereotypes far too many make us out to be.
Welcome.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Welcome, I look forward to disagreeing with you on religion, and hopefully agreeing on most other things.
Have fun, it is an interesting place.
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I don't consider Christianity to be a religion...it is a way of life.
Thinking in a supernatural way, or seeing in a supernatural way, is knowing God. I first saw, really saw, His creation and that drew me to Him. Now He teaches me through His Word. He lives in me.....
I seldom discuss religion(s). I enjoy discussing His teaching. Thank you for the welcome.
Understood and accepted. I would add...please try to learn from what you read from me too.
Thank you for your welcome.
In honesty I have to confess that many of the discussions are not interesting. We spend all our time arguing about the nature of supernatural/subjective vs empirical evidence. Ultimately these discussions come down to the old 'is not/is too' position with the godly insisting that evolution is a lie, the lord exists outside this space time and we all argue because we crave a life of sin. It's quite pathetic.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Hee hee. That was an awesomely accurate characterization Ae. It made me laugh.
I'm sorry to hear your life is based on an assertion.
I saw life on earth first and fully when I realised I was a colony of cooperative single celled organisms that had evolved by chance in a boring neighborhood on the outskirts of a dull galaxy. Now I read most every new discovery about life and the universe I possibly can and debatable truth lives in me.
The amazingness of a sentient existence in this place and being raised in a group have taught me awe and morality - just as they have you - misdirect your humanity as you will.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
This gives me hope and makes me feel better. I hope you mean it.
Hope you're doing ok today. I wasn't trying to 'mean it' especially. This is simply the clear and observable truth. Positing supernatural causes for anything, entertaining though this may be, has no basis in knowable fact.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I like this
"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc
I'll try, but my 9 year experience of debate online the only new things I learn from theists is how they re package their arguments. We are tough to please as far as evidence is concerned. We don't simply buy the car because it is a pretty cherry red, we look under the hood too.
You have stepped into the lions den here. We will knock your claims around. Just warning you.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
It is difficult for the two, the supernatural and the natural, to come together.
Hopefully, discussions of the spiritual vs. natural will provide understanding.
I don't think you (at least not all of you
) crave a life of sin.
.