Death of the last Sun God

redneF
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Death of the last Sun God

We've come down to the last Sun Gods.

Man's intrinsic drive into understanding and knowledge of the mechanics of the laws and processes of the universe is the quest for absolute and unquestionable truth.

This intrinsic that has always superceded all notions of the supernatural, is what extinguished all previous Sun Gods, and will continue to do so, as it does not distinguish between  them.

This inevitability will lead to the extinction of the last remaining Sun Gods from culture.

I believe that as we have more overlap of the different scienctific endeavours, more dialogue, and more collaborative theorizing, modeling, and experimentation, faster and more powerful computers, and more complex software, we will see quantum leaps in human knowledge and understanding, as we expand on the theories of quantum mechanics, fractals, and stochastic systems.

The exciting thing for us, is that, much like the theory of evolution, and natural selection in particular, indicates very strongly, that we needn't need to extend our knowledge past our understanding of our own universe, after the Big Bang, to understand that we were not 'designed' by anything outside of the laws of physics and chemistry, and that we (and ant other types of biological life) are just as likely to have evolved into any infinite types of crystalizations of matter and energy, that we refer to as life.

 

Anyone attempting to argue any of this with the self contradicting 'there will always be things we'll never know', is wasting their time with me. Because it only serves to demonstrate that they simply don't know anything extensive about the scientific endeavours that are currently being studied, where they are headed, nor do they work with the current and emerging technologies that I'm talking about, and have experienced myself.

They're simply out of their league, and arguing from ignorance.

Period.

Stop.

 

My question is a philosophical one, aimed at the atheists, specifically, for their ability and discipline to open mindedly, contemplate hypotheticals without any dogmatic bias, or presuppositions.

 

The question is twofold:

1- Should we come to such a robust scientific understanding of our universe, that eliminates the presupposition, and necessity for a supernatural or metaphysical factor in the creation of biological life and complexity equation, how do you think this will affect theism, and theists, as it shatters the last remaining foundations that their folklores are built upon.

2- How do you think they'll react should the majority of humans in industrialized nations simply begin rejecting all religions in the next quantum leap further into the Age of Enlightenment? Do you think this spark a mass fear, or a mass revolt, or possibly war, when the last Sun Gods are about to be extinguished?

Will there be mass chaos?

What will be the global social implications?

 

Please theorize!

 

 

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:We've come down

redneF wrote:

We've come down to the last Sun Gods.

Man's intrinsic drive into understanding and knowledge of the mechanics of the laws and processes of the universe

Do you think this spark a mass fear, or a mass revolt, or possibly war, when the last Sun Gods are about to be extinguished?

Will there be mass chaos?

What will be the global social implications?

 

Please theorize!

 Before everyone starts thinking about the 'social implications' of the Death of 'god'. One very minor point. What you suggest about the Sun God  and  about the Son of  the Sun hypothesis, Isn't either of questionable veracity? That development not really being considered much. From history the Last Sun God idea according to some is much more complicated than parts of Comparative Religious thought would identify  it  as being,. In our cultural "Sun God" might best be seen differently (or more historically).  Arent we all missing a blending of the common religion and  Emperor Contantain (Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinos) own indispensable religious 'spin', in some part, melding syncretism surely took place. Couldnt start without mentioning this ......

 


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Fine.I was being rhetorical,

Fine.

I was being rhetorical, of course, by calling them Sun Gods.

Just remove the 'Sun' qualifier, as it was not meant to be literal.

 

Got any theories on my questions?

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


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redneF wrote:I was being

redneF wrote:
I was being rhetorical, of course, by calling them Sun Gods.

 My bad. Thanks for the clarification. ... I was reminded (just moments ago) of a very close family member that endanger the life of a truck driver. Without the drivers' knowledge, he placed a very super toxic gaseous fumigant in the back by tossing this fumigant before he drove out in their truck.  The levels would have killed either guy 100-percent of the time. There was not enough volume to disperse the fumes so it was fatal to anyone looking in on things. Check the load or stop on the road and the driver is dead. This is real world ethics! I know religious people and however plainly stupid they come across. I cannot imagine they would have done that or placed any human in that jeopardy. Religion, on it's best day, can still hold an intrinsic value of the good will, the dependence of religion on morality, there's that value. That is if you avoid the odd war over it :~


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danatemporary

danatemporary wrote:

 ................Religion, on it's best day, can still hold an intrinsic value of the good will, the dependence of religion on morality, there's that value. That is if you avoid the odd war over it :~

Are you in the right thread?

I asked for some speculative theories on what might hypothetically happen if science finally satisifed the overwhelming majority of the scientific community that the universe was not created by anything more than the laws of physics and the forces of gravity.

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


Atheistextremist
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Hi Red

 

How's it going?

Look - I think we'd both agree that no matter what science came up with theists would deny its veracity in order to feel the universe is handing them a sense of purpose. When neuroscience explains the brain, they'll say the soul is the immaterial force that drives that brain, when science finally creates life they'll say it was a false environment not patterned by chance but by intellect, when we reverse-engineer the genomes of all living things and discover the complete genomic fossil record that must lie therein they'll say its complexity must be the result of divine intelligence. So - my first assertion is that religion will never die because it's not based on the observable truth - frail and subjective as that can sometimes be - but on human need.

Next, I think if god could be shown to not exist in a manner that did convince everyone he was not there - say an alien civilisation arrived and through revelation turned all our anthropomorphic projections upside down - I think things would go on as before. Religion, in my opinion, is a supportive generalisation that makes believers feel a sense of purpose, safety and control. Research suggests the godly live longer lives, perhaps thanks to lower stress or better social networks. In any case, when people lost religion they'd turn to other support networks; to friends, society, family; just as we all do. In a very real way, the existence of highly moral atheists clearly supports the view that without god humans don't melt down, but face up.

Maybe without god, humans would become better people. No doubt the godly would not believe such a thing was possible but self governance for the common good is not a property of faith in the external but of personal integrity. Personally I'd prefer to spend time with stoics than christians or muslims but all govern themselves in the same way. Personally, self honesty feels better to me than self delusion coupled with the inevitable arbitrary moral judgment christians apply to non believers around about them.

Finally Red, and you may have mentioned this when you first arrived here and I may have missed it, but what was your religious background? Or have you always unbelieved?

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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re: Death of the last Sun God

Quote:
[I ve asked] what might hypothetically happen if science finally satisifed the overwhelming majority of the scientific community

  Okay. '.. if science finally satisifed..' what ?  'Real world ethics' is a surprising way to explore what might be  If religion was missing morality or was not around to regulate "morals" Hmm, Are you looking  a for 'WHAT IF' ? series or scenario from people of the board?  Please take the time to further clarify if you at all could. Love it or hate it, this reminds me of that.


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

Next, I think if god could be shown to not exist in a manner that did convince everyone he was not there - say an alien civilisation arrived and through revelation turned all our anthropomorphic projections upside down - I think things would go on as before. 

Laughing out loud I put forth that very idea to a theist one time. What would he do if an alien civilization came to Earth and proved that we were merely their creations and put forth all the evidence to refute the notion of a god. He got this smirk on his face and said : Well something had to create the aliens, aliens could not have come from nowhere.

I wonder if the aliens would even have the patience to fool with people like that, seriously.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


redneF
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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

How's it going?

Yo!

I'm rockin' dude!

Handed another theist his ass on a plate, thinkin' he was 'all that and a bag of chips' in the critical thinking department, in another thread.

Atheistextremist wrote:
Look - I think we'd both agree that no matter what science came up with theists would deny its veracity in order to feel the universe is handing them a sense of purpose. When neuroscience explains the brain, they'll say the soul is the immaterial force that drives that brain, when science finally creates life they'll say it was a false environment not patterned by chance but by intellect, when we reverse-engineer the genomes of all living things and discover the complete genomic fossil record that must lie therein they'll say its complexity must be the result of divine intelligence. So - my first assertion is that religion will never die because it's not based on the observable truth - frail and subjective as that can sometimes be - but on human need.

Next, I think if god could be shown to not exist in a manner that did convince everyone he was not there - say an alien civilisation arrived and through revelation turned all our anthropomorphic projections upside down - I think things would go on as before. Religion, in my opinion, is a supportive generalisation that makes believers feel a sense of purpose, safety and control. Research suggests the godly live longer lives, perhaps thanks to lower stress or better social networks. In any case, when people lost religion they'd turn to other support networks; to friends, society, family; just as we all do. In a very real way, the existence of highly moral atheists clearly supports the view that without god humans don't melt down, but face up.

Maybe without god, humans would become better people. No doubt the godly would not believe such a thing was possible but self governance for the common good is not a property of faith in the external but of personal integrity. Personally I'd prefer to spend time with stoics than christians or muslims but all govern themselves in the same way. Personally, self honesty feels better to me than self delusion coupled with the inevitable arbitrary moral judgment christians apply to non believers around about them.

I can totally dig that, man.

Atheistextremist wrote:
Finally Red, and you may have mentioned this when you first arrived here and I may have missed it, but what was your religious background? Or have you always unbelieved?

Grew up in a home that was completely void of any mention of the concept of religion, or the concept of god.

Was home taught how to read before kindergarten, and encouraged to read the encyclopedia.

Didn't hear the word 'god' till the first or second grade in school, and went 'who?'....'he's some guy who did what???"...."What do you mean??"

It made no sense from the first day I heard the concept explained to me, by a schoolmate.

 

Haven't heard one other person be able to say anything I would consider intelligent, or compelling at all, in defense of such a theory.

And I've listened to the best.

And I'd debate any single one of them, and predict that I would easily make them look the complete fool.

 

And I've only recently become aware of the large involvements on YouTube, and atheist forums like this one, and think it's fricken' awesome, and about fricken' time we pushed these dimwits back where they belong, in caves, and being goat herders, or camel jockies in the desert, and not given any methods of brainwashing young children who might have otherwise been great innovators and contributors to mankind, and the entire world, in order to perpetuate some stupid hope that minions cling to with desperation.

Maybe someday, I'll elaborate more, and tell you how I really feel about it.

In the meantime, I'm grabbing my gear, and getting in the game.

And I play to win.

Second place, is first loser, in my book.

And losing this worldwide social conflict, is not an option.

Education is the key, in my mind, and halting the spread of disinformation, equivocation, and arbitrary determinations framed as dogmas, set forth by religions.

The internet, and the media are our biggest assets, and the theists noose.

They cannot escape reality. The reality is, that science is right, and they're not scientific. Ergo...

 

It's just a matter of time.

We will evolve past the ages of religions.

Religion was a man made cognitive disease.

Trust in Darwin's theory.

Those best suited to the changing environment, will survive.

Science is changing the environment.

The dinosaurs will die out, and their offspring who adapted, will flourish.

 

Predictions by redneF, an antichrist!

lol...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris