In the light of this discussion have suddenly taken an refreshingly rational turn... I would like to acknowledge the following to those who do not agree with me...

After waking up this morning, my bride and I, after our ritual Sunday Morning carnal affront to  all religions... poured ourselves a couple of mugs of homicide prevention and surfed cable news.... I am listening to boorish Oafs and barely litterate dolts (especially on Fox) prattle on about this Mosque, and why it shouldn't be built... and indeed, their ignorance is staggering... I understand why its so easy to opposse the thinly veiled racism of Crucifix wearing, sign waving asshats who are questioning President Obama's citizenship, and demanding he sit in church every sunday to "Prove" his Christianity... Moreover, I understand that much of the Islamic center's opposition is not derrived via Lucid socio/political perspective, but through fear, anger,and intellectual attenuation...

While I have taken the Politically Correct Left to task for blind partisanship, and ignoring the bigger picture of the Islamic ideology...... It would be irresponsible of me to not acknowledge that such fecklessness on behalf of Right Wing Park 51 opponents, and disguising Bigotry as morality can warrant such reactions... I have to admit that for the wrong reasons, there are many irrational Muslim haters who agree with my position...

I would also like to say that I do not see that dynamic on this messageboard... I am reffering to things I read on facebook, and dullards being interviewed on Television...

For my part, I am sure that I contributed to the tension here... Messageboards are a unique form of communication... and this is the "RATIONAL" response squad, not the "I'm Right & you're Wrong" forum... So for those who disagree with my premise, I'd like to say that you are not wrong, and I am sure that we simply believe that different paths will allow us to arrive at the same destination...

well i am from tunisia

it's not like  saudia arabia and Middle East country , but i cant just say i am atheist here

and christians dont actually kill non-believers like muslims do

in arabic country atheist cant appear in tv or publishing their books 

trust me you dont know how bad are the muslims and the islam

the dont accept freedom and democracy

Ah! So you are an asshole, in addition to being a fool. Glad we straightened that one detail out, already...

Thank you Rich for understanding.  This was basically the whole point of my "assholeness" (according to Kapkao).

intolerant and dangerous, its founder preaches my murder, its imams preach division with the elected governments of our nations and its followers do not protest. Unlike christianity, it is not tempered by contact with secularism or the teachings of jesus. Sure, there are not vast numbers of muslims in the west but it's pretty obvious how things would be if there were. If you don't look at events around the world as empirical evidence of the dangers of islam you're being deliberately obtuse.

Regardless, would you prefer to live in a majority muslim country or would you not? And if not, why not? Personally, I think your position as a muslim-comfy female atheist is ultimately perilous, agree with me or no. I've not read any calls in socialist/environmentalist/anarchist books for my death and incineration but I readily agree I have a major anti-religious cognitive bias. If it could be proven these other people were also mad, I'd be happy to include them on the list of sociopathic memes I do not favour.

I wouldn't live in Saudi Arabia or Iran, but I wouldn't mind countries like Lebanon or such.

Like it or not, the imam has the first amendment right to build that mosque/Islamic center where ever he wants as long as its built on private property. And any anti-western, fundamentalist zealotry would be quickly rooted out given that there would likely be heavy surveillance of this place. What is there to fear?

I personally am not in favor of the mosque but the constitution doesn't give a fuck what offends me. That's the beauty of a free society. My neighbor in the privacy of his/her home could plaster the basement walls with swastikas and masturbate while watching Jews being cremated in the death camps. He/she can have thoughts of cute kittens being beheaded or even think about committing homocide. All of this cruelty is protected by freedom of speech and thought. There is absolutely nothing I can do to have that neighbor evicted as long as he/she has not infringed on my rights and liberties. The same  reasoning should apply to the Imam.

That said and done, it is quite alarming what is taking place in the UK and other European realms with the increasing prominence of radical islam. The problem over there is that group rights supersede the rights of individuals in the name of "multiculturalism". And I'm sad to say it but I fully blame leftwing apologists for this. I think that the USA has enough safeguards to prevent the totalitarian instinct among radicals to become widespread. Individual rights always come first here.

I don't know if I already responded to this thread, but to me there is no debate. Unless it can be proven that the people who own the building are involved in criminal activity, and they are meeting all building codes, it is none of our business.

The only thing people who don't own that building is make an appeal through media or protest. But in the end Muslims should be treated no differently under our laws.

You don't have to like it being put there, and you are within your rights under the same "free speech" laws to protest and appeal, but if they decide to put it there and they haven't broken any laws in doing so, they can.

The right wingers want to make it about location. But several Mosques outside the state having nothing to do with being close to any of the three attack sites, have also been protested.

But this is nothing new in our history. In the past the Christian majority has also protested the building of Catholic Churches and Synagogues.

It is not a matter of supporting Islam, but the concept of common law. It is not a matter of believing in Allah, or any god for that matter. It is the Constitutional concept to protect what we would want for ourselves in as such we have no choice to protect, even that which we don't agree with.

I also think by putting it there would undermine the Bin Ladin types by showing the east that we don't come to blows when things happen that we don't agree with.

People can bitch all they want about the Mosque being put there, that is their right. But until, or unless the owners break the law, they are entitled to the same Constitutional rights we would want for ourselves.

And also, as horrible as 9/11 was, we have more death caused by domestic crime. More death caused by drunk driving. More death caused by smoking.

I fear more the chance of my neighbor robbing me than I do a terrorist attack at that level. I have more to worry about from my own personal habits than I do being blown up by a terrorist. I can understand the sensitivity to the proximity. But the very freedoms the Constitution protects are moot if we use anything other than appeal to try to get them not to put it there.

If anything, putting it there is a testament to our Constitution's strength. I will never have a problem with going after bad guys. But I will always be nervous when any government leans towards suspicion and uses law to presume guilt.

This is strictly about law, not labels. Liking it being put there or not liking it put there doesn't matter a lick if no laws are broken in putting it there.

 And here we go.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/25/new.york.muslim.stabbed/index.html?hpt=T2

Perhaps Quaran is the book of violence and terror.  However, stating this without saying the truth about religion in general and Bible in particular reinforces Christians and drives them to acts of violence and hate.

I'm going to go ahead and thread-jump, here. I am in no way offended by the Mosque. As I see it, to be offended by the Mosque would mean that you blame Muslims for 9/11 -- and if you believe that, than you have to be consistent. As John Oliver put it, "All religions have to take credit for their biggest assholes." That means all Christians are guilty for the bombing of abortion clinics and Jesus camp and should thus step lightly over those topics... But they're not consistent, which to me demeans their point.

Not sure what you meant by that comment, but if I am guessing, "Why didn't the NFL reff call both sides for unsportsman like conduct?"

It is understandable that the survivors and witnesses would have an emotional reaction to that event. But we as a society should not allow the people who did it,  decide for all Muslims how the west interacts with all Muslims. Not to mention that Muslims died in those towers along with all the other major labels of religions and nationalities.

If force of law is used to move the location, then the guy who stabbed the Muslim Taxi driver the other day should not have been arrested and should have a statue built on ground zero.

Until we see death as death and violence as violence and something none of us want, labels will always lead us to do horrible things to outsiders.

The reason humans are hypocrites, even atheists, are not because of labels, but because we are human. The problem should not be about hypocrisy. The problem is humanity's ability to accept that we all fart and shit and will die.

My co-workers cant stand my stedfastness in claiming that god claims are absurd. They also cant stand how anal I am during inspection periods. But if they think because of those things that I am trying to claim I am perfect or better than them, they are fools.

Hypocrisy has nothing on death. We can find ways as a species to divide each other, but all that division does nothing to stop us from dying. If anything it makes us die quicker.