Greetings from Ohio
Offline Hi everyone!
I'm a Music Major soon graduating and pursuing a MA in Music Performance. As you can imagine, there aren't too many atheists in my field of study. There are even fewer who share my love of science. They find it incredibly boring, and it is impossible to have any meaningful discussion with them. This also coincides with them being quite religious. "How can you believe there is no god when there is all this beautiful music?" is something I am asked quite often. My reply "Well the sensation of music is purely a physical phenomena...etc" falls on deaf ears. However, that isn't necessarily the primary thing which led me here. It is essentially a recent change in my regards to the harm religion does to the progress of us as a race.
In regards to my beliefs, I've been at the very least an agnostic since around age 10. I read the bible, and when I asked some of the questions about the absurdities I was told "This is the word of god." At that point I actually convinced my mom to stop making me go to church. Fortunately for me, my dad is an atheist (he actually went into the seminary, but told me he didn't feel how they said he would feel) and fully supported me finding my own beliefs. I've always been interested in science, and the more I read and learned the less I was convinced that there was any kind of deity. I was a full blown atheist by the time I graduated high school.
I always have been one to point out hypocrisy and irony in religious beliefs, but I never considered believing to be particularly harmful. I just looked at religious folks as people who found it easier to have faith than to question things. I thought "sure religion did all these horrible things like the crusades, 9/11 but that's a select few extremists." This was until perhaps a month ago, I was watching a lecture by Lawrence Krauss and came across him speaking at a protest of the Creation Museum in Kentucky.
I never truly believed that people thought the world was 6000 years old and took all that scripture literally. Then I find out they have a museum which claimed to be science. I actually asked a few people I know what they believed in regards to the earth's age/evolution/origins, more often than I expected they believed scripture. That was the point in which I realized religion really does hold back the advancement of the human race. I decided that I needed to at the very least discuss things with like-minded people, and to try to enlighten the ignorant. That is what leads me here.
Sorry for rambling!
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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Welcome to the forum.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Welcome!
Where are you at school, if you're in ohio? I'm at Ohio State myself.
I once majored in music performance, vocal to be specific. I found out I am no Beverly Sills and never will be. What I really wanted was curtain calls and that wasn't in my future. I survived. Funny, I started in engineering math, side tripped to business management, on to music and finally got my BS in systems engineering. I am a little surprised at the feedback you are getting from the other students. One of my music instructors once commented on how many engineers and science majors were active in music in one form or another as a hobby. He thought it was because music is so very mathematical.
Deliberate ignorance will be the cause of the extinction of the human race. The YEC (young earth creationists) have to be the most deliberately ignorant people I have ever met.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
I have never understood this one. Where did the music come from?
Really?
People made it up. Simple. I don't see how putting a few pretty notes together automatically points to a supreme cosmic dictator at the universe's helm. And I'm a amateur musician to boot (didgeridoo for 9 years, harmonica for about 4 years and computer music production for about 5 years). I don't see how some imaginary sky daddy put those strings of sounds in my head for me, I just play what I like.
WARNING! If you have a low tolerance for bullshit, steer clear of this video:
Or if you want to skip ahead to the EVIL ATHEIST CONSPIRACY's take on the insane place and it's asshat founders, watch this:
And again, WELCOME!
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
Welcome! I hope you enjoy your stay.
Are you attending Oberlin? Just curious -- I'm out in Elyria, myself.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
Welcome. Where exactly do you go? I have a cousin at Ohio State.
I go to Kent State.
I still cant believe that they can think the Flintstones were a documentary. I always picture T-rex going around eating people like Cheetos, gives me a chuckle every time.
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
And the pics lead to sites that actually take this bullshit seriously!
Wow... when did this become a documentary?
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
Agreed sir. I saw a picture of a dinosaur at that creation museum with a saddle! -sigh-
Someone asked me today how my easter went..."I didn't do anything." "Why?" "I don't believe in Jesus and have no reason to celebrate anything." I ended up talking to this person for a half hour about how not being Christian didn't make me evil, and how since I don't believe in hell that their threats don't scare me. They then brought up Pascal's Wager. I then pointed out the flawed logic in that and they walked away.
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
Welcome!
Yea, if music making people happy means God is real then heroin means God is real too.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Music is pretty important to reinforce belief. Theists need music to continually remind themselves that they 'believe' and put themselves into a state of mind where they can be easily brainwashed to 'believe' any preposterous supposition.
What do you think about all the Christian music used in public schools as part of music education programs? Seems like using tax dollars to promote religion. If we promoted atheism in the schools as way to increase science competency, holy hell would be raised.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I honestly don't like it. One of the big issues that was continually raised in music education classes, was how it was such an inconvenience to have to do non-Christian songs for Christmas Concerts. I brought up the issue of "why is it a Christmas concert" as there are, in fact, other religious occasions in December. I've also voiced my opinion in classes, and in organization meetings, that I feel schools should not finance the purchasing of any type religious music. Considering schools are state/federally funded, I consider it to be a violation of the separation of church and state. (as you have mentioned above)
My personal position on it is that religion did in fact give us some great music, but teachers can't rely solely on it for teaching in schools. There are a great deal of modern, secular composers, who do a wonderful job of creating. Ironically, some of my favorite composers were in fact, atheists. Shostakovich, Richard Strauss, Grainger, and Berlioz off the top of my head. Even the great Beethoven renounced catholicism. Amusingly, Beethoven was one of the first musicians to not accept a position within a church, or court, and solely lived off of commissions for his work.
I think we have so much religious music because up until almost Mozart's time (Late 18th century) the church was pretty much the only way to make a living at music. This also led to a lack of preservation of secular music up until the Baroque. So, for music teachers, they tend to rely on Christian music for two reasons: 1.) It's not hard to find, and 2.) Most places (in America, at least) are predominantly Christian. Thus it's in my opinion, being lazy.
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
Welcome and gratz for having a rational parent.
What's happened lately is that Christian music follows secular music. trends There is a new kind a music like Rock, hippie, grunge, rap, etc... The Christian preachers will first condemn it a devil music, corrupting and sexualizing the youth. Then a few years later they'll copy it and use Christian lyrics. If they don't they'll lose business.
A lot of Christian music really sucks. You can be a marginal musician and sell your works if you label it Christian.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I was only commenting on my views about teaching religious music, but yes, I totally agree. I'm reminded of the "Faith +1" episode of South Park.
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
Hilarious Episode!
Best quote from the episode: "I just want to feel you deep inside me, Jesus!"
CLASSIC!!!
"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!
TRAITOR! HOW DARE YOU GO AGAINST OHIO STATE!
My mom graduated from Ohio State and NO ONE PUTS MOMMY IN THE CORNER!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I was unaware that there is a rivalry between OSU and Kent... I mean, come on, it's friggin' Kent (no offense rdahlem... my uncle went there)
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MY MOTHER WENT TO OHIO STATE! Anyone rooting for other college teams are scum! SCUM SCUM I'Z TELLS YA!
(Note to self: Did I think that, or type it)
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
You should see a doctor. Your motor skills are seriously messed up if when you think something, you go to a specific website to write it out.
Or maybe a demon has entered your persona. You want a catholic exorcist? They're known for 'happy endings.'
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