Why?
Offline I mean, honestly, why? First off, a theist, specifically Christian. To ones of my thinking, shut the hell up. It is not important to force our beliefs down others throats. The Bible was written so long ago, that most of the ideals in it are outdated. The 10 commandments are the only things people even bother reading anymore, to base what you should/should not do. At least, it is the case where I live. Atheists, why do you care? Now, I understand if you are sick of people trying to convert you, but really, you are trying to persuade us to go to your point of view, so is it any different? Feel free to prove me wrong, I do not mind. I respect your opinion. Also, when we try to speak about our beliefs, some seem to just not care. Seriously? Why even post if you don't care at all. You just seem like gibbering morons. Do not try to persuade some of us, you will fail. I am firm in my beliefs. I care about your view, but I get pissed when you mock us. Just ignore it. Ignore it. Do not go into debates. Why would you waste your time debating on things such as this, when you could be doing actual productive things. You know, like new scientific advances, forming families, helpiing people. Anything but doing this ridiculous debate. Now, I lack in any helpful skills, and am lazy, so I have nothing to do to help people. I could, but I wouldn't be able to do much. Just my humble opinion.
- Login to post comments
If you don't like it here, don't come here.
I don't know. I'm just bored. I decided to put my miniscule opinion out there. I meant no offense. We all have opinions. I feel like an idiot.
Your last and most resounding fallacy.
More likely you are just responding to social pressure in your so-called beliefs. You don't accept Allah or Thor or Zues as god. Why? It's all social pressure, you would convert if being a atheist meant more social acceptance.
How do people figure out what is rational what is BS in our world unless we discuss things?
I do develop technology and part of my frustration is that no technology or science can really improve the human condition. Why, because humanity is irrational about our religious, political and social views, so any gains in technology are negated by this irrationality. Same with forming families and helping people. I don't have a burning desire to bring children into an already overpopulated place where the must deal with so many irrational ideas and people that will fuck you over while believing they are holy and moral. How can I help people? Generosity is something to be taken advantage of, no good deed goes unpunished.
Why as a theist do you think it's ridiculous? I mean we are going to be tortured for all eternity and miss out on eternal bliss if we are wrong. Don't you want to help us by coming up with a convincing argument? I can understand an atheist thinking it's ridiculous because the idea of god is ridiculous. But you believe, you don't want us to burn, so why not come up with convincing arguments? Isn't that the great commission?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I'm not sick of people trying to convert me - they usually make themselves look like fools, and end up trying to weasel their way out of the discussion as if they were never trying to convert in the first place. Beyond this, attempted conversion isn't the primary concern many atheists have with religious faith. In my opinion (and that's all that I can attest to), the greatest problem with theism is that it encourages the rejection of our natural critical thinking faculties. This has profound ramifications beyond merely making them look uneducated when debating their religion.
Furthermore I don't see how we try to persuade any "point of view." Your point of view is solely your own, as mine is mine, and any individual's is their own. They will inevitably vary at some point, so why even bother trying to persuade a point of view at all? I think you are confusing challenges to many unfounded claims as being attempts at "conversion to atheism." There's nothing to convert to! If you feel that atheism/atheists may "convert" you, it may simply reveal your own underlying doubts about your faith - because there is nothing which you are required to believe when you are an atheist. It's simply a realization that you can actually question your own decisions and beliefs, and demand REAL answers and explanations to your questions. If you don't want to do this - fine, it isn't up to myself or any other atheist - It's up to you.
*If I were trying to convince you to leave your religion, I'd employ other tactics, like guilt. I'd make some snide remark regarding how you are contributing to the dulling of our societal senses and ability to function as a global species by driving fundamental divides between us and encouraging the growth of beliefs which put entire populations at potentially violent odds with one another. Not to mention supporting the imposition of limits on life-saving scientific endeavors that spring not from ethics or morality, but from irrational interpretations of dogmatic scriptures that predate science as a whole. But that wouldn't be very nice...
A) You came here and posted first - Were you not expecting a response on a public forum? Why not post this to a blog or something if you weren't expecting challenges to statements? To frame this in creationist dribble - you were the first cause here.
B) Why do you criticize us for mocking you when you do the same? I don't exactly consider myself a gibbering moron, but to each his/her own.
C) If your purpose was in criticizing us for debating people who show up and make statements like yours, well I answered that in A. If you are criticizing debating religious values in general - That's fine. I don't walk around searching for fights if that's what you think. But I don't just let somebody off the hook when they start discussing their beliefs in public domain. I'll ask questions, and I'll probably be called an asshole for it. I'm honestly just a curious person, and I would love to figure out how some people so readily talk themselves into such completely unfounded beliefs. How do you learn about something? You ask questions about it. That's the nature of being a scientist and a skeptic. Sorry if that is offensive to you. The debate part comes in when somebody begins to get defensive about their beliefs and asks you for proof or challenges your position. I'll take them up on it, and gladly - Because I know that we have evidence, and the theists don't. If you want an argument grounded in the rules of logic and science, and not the baseless claims of prophets and mysticism, you'll get a heaping plate full of it when you challenge an educated atheist.
D) I do actually spend a considerable amount of my time working towards scientific advances. I'm currently trying to figure out new methods for gathering metabolic data through NMR spectroscopy, for the purposes of gaining a greater understanding of the microbes involved in producing the next generation of carbon-neutral biofuels. I think that's fairly productive, but I suppose it's all subjective in your eyes anyway. Sometimes though, you need a break from that to stay fresh. Sometimes that means going for a bike ride, going out with friends, reading a book, etc. Sometimes it means discussing matters such as this on an internet forum. I'm not about to claim 100% efficiency in my life, I think that would ruin me mentally and physically. But you know what, I do my best, and I'm satisfied with myself and my colleagues at the end of a day.
Now, that is just me. I'm sure there are plenty on this forum who may disagree, and some who may agree. I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who haven't thought much about why they don't believe, and probably could care less about discussing it. But you know what? We're a social species, so it would seem natural that we might want to discuss our thoughts occasionally, no?
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.
-- Richard Dawkins
Sounds creepy where you live. I would base what I should/should not do on logic and reason. It sounds pretty crazy to do so otherwise. If one's foundation for right and wrong are based on fiction, once discovered they will have nothing they know of to stand on. That in and of itself is dangerous.
Trying to convince others of your idea's are more accurate or that they might be missing some variable that would lead to a better conclusion is not wrong. However when you have no evidence to support your ideas it becomes problematic. Information sharing is good when the information is valid.
If they didn't care then how exactly did the make the effort to post? The post is at least proof that they cared enough to say something.
So was I once... once.
Don't pick views so worthy of mockery then. If that cannot be done then try to prove they are not worthy of mockery.
Debating helped me understand other position better. They help me clarify my ideas and views. They also helped me change my opinion on a great many things. I don't think they are a waste, but I am open to be proved wrong. Are you?
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
So, you complain about atheists not shutting the hell up... by yourself not shutting the hell up. Do you know what a hypocrite is? Look in the mirror.
Ah, great! You're interested in hearing others' opinions. That's very refreshing.
... wait, I thought you wanted to hear others' opinions. Now you're telling us you believe we should shut up, and we should follow your belief.
... wait, now you're saying that people shouldn't tell others to follow their beliefs. Well, that's a relief. We don't like it when people spout off their opinions as facts.
... wait, now you're spouting off your opinions as facts. Are you sure that the 10 commandments is the *only* thing people get from the bible? (I'm also curious why you call yourself a Christian if you only read the 10 commandments. Nothing in the 10 about Jesus.)
... wait, now you're saying your opinions aren't facts, but accidents of geography. Well, that's a relief to know. It seems you're aware that religion can be a serious problem depending on where you live.
... wait, now you're saying you're not aware that religion can be a big problem in the world. Well, at least you're interested in why we speak out.
... wait, so speaking out is okay?
... wait, so it's not?
... wait, now you're saying speaking our opinion is okay again.
... wait, so you only respect our opinions if we 'care'?
... wait, so you don't really respect our opinions at all, then? And to persuade us of this, you believe it's okay to mock people.
... wait, but now you're saying we shouldn't try to persuade people. And that our view is irrelevant to yours.
... wait, so our view is relevant now?
... wait, but now it's not okay to mock people?
... wait, so are we allowed to express our views, or not? Well, I for one am glad you came here on this debate forum to express your view. I'm glad you agree that debates such as these can be productive and helpful.
... wait, so debating is bad, unproductive, unhelpful, and should be mocked as ridiculous? I guess in your view, being helpful and productive is very important.
... wait, so you're neither helpful nor productive?
How very humble of you to come on a debate forum to unproductively persuade us to shut up by mockingly expressing your unhelpful view that it's unproductive to persuade people by mockingly expressing our views.
Which of the 10 commandments were you following when you decided to do this? Was it the one about not being a hypocrite?
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
I feel bad for deluded people. They live their entire life dedicated to something that is not there and then they are gone =(
Same basic reason those same deluded people try to convert me, they think I'm going to "hell"
So I try.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Why? If you said something you now regret, feel free to explain.
I decided to start speaking up about the harm that religion causes after being so negatively affected by it in my childhood. I grew to learn that many other people have been harmed by religion, so I decided to help make the world a better place by removing it, as it hinders us. I do so with the best intentions. So when you talk about doing something productive, that is exactly what we're doing here.
If you leave here any wiser than when you got here... was our effort worth it? The answer for me is: yes.
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
Please become a Patron of Brian Sapient
You asked "why" we debate? It's for the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is a worthy quest in my opinion.
Do you still believe the earth is flat? No? A few hundred years ago you would have been considered idiotic for not believing that. But now we know that the earth is actually round. How do we know this? Skeptical scientists asked some questions, did some research against popular belief, found some answers and started debate. Back-in-the-day many people refused to be persuaded by that obviously heretical theory (the Church was foremost in defending the Biblical flat earth) and some of the scientists were even imprisoned.
Well now, Fialvert, we also know that we live in a natural world and that there is no invisible Being floating around the universe. It's common knowledge to people who are educated in these things. You can remain "firm in [your] beliefs" as much as you like, but it will sadly be your loss.
Atheism is not anti-religion, it is the absence of religion.
Why don't you shut up? Why aren't you happy sitting at the back of the bus? Why are you so "uppity"? Why don't you accept that a fictional being runs our lives and his fans outnumber us? I'd bet you'd bitch about the pyramids and claim Ra didn't exist and the sun wasn't a thinking being. THEY BUILT THE PYRAMIDS! THAT MUST MEAN THE SUN IS A THINKING BEING!
You are such an ingrate! Now be a good atheist and barbecue a kitten and give an account of the NFL without their permission!
SOME PEOPLE!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU..........thats all I got, I am wagging my finger at the computer screen. How dare you...you you you you.............
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
OOOOOPS!
Got trigger happy. Sorry.
(Note to reader: Please don't hurt me)
But the sentiment of the joke still stands. I was merely responding to the OP.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
LOL
It's funny cause I'm a polytheist
ciarin.com
A few hundred years ago, most people believed the earth to be spherical.
ciarin.com
Quite right - my bad. I should have written, "There was a time when most people still believed the earth to be flat (before Copernicus in the 16th Century)"
I didn't feel like doing the Google-thing to work out the exact year, and simply used an arbitrary "few hundred years" to make the point. My point was that some things (like a spherical earth) are common knowledge today but were not commonly held views in fairly recent history, and that discussions like these are a means to gaining knowledge.
So here is a question: How long will it take before Christianity is commonly regarded as another quaint myth from ancient times?
Atheism is not anti-religion, it is the absence of religion.
You have all met my expectations. I put out a insane speech, in which I contradict myself, and I lay back and saw the results. Very interesting. Now: I am not a troll. I simply go throughout the internet, putting up things that I ramble off the top of my mind, and see what happens. I was afraid no one would post. I'm working on a report in which how the various areas of the internet respond. Now, with places like Something Awful, there is more chaos. Here, it is full of sane people. Nice, rational people. This is the end of my religious debate section, so I thanks you for being you.
That's a troll.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
No, you are a moron who is embarrassed because you wrote something that makes you look like an idiot, and now you are backtracking to protect your ego.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
But butter, weren't you paying attention? He said he's not a troll, so he can't possibly be a troll...
=\
We must all be trolls, then . . .
Well, that is how we learn, isn't it?
Maybe pointing it out will help him remember for the next time he wants to shoot his mouth off.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
I doubt it will matter at all. A troll has arrived, been met with appropriate hostility and rationality, and left. Same story, new troll. Funny that David suggested it as a method of learning since he hasn't learned jack shit yet, despite being given plenty of patience and carefully crafted arguments.
Yeah. David . . . such a troll! Jonathan subscribes primarily to the notion that since I am not properly trained in ancient Greek and Hebrew that I have no voice in a more carefully crafted examination of scripture. If it had been for people like Jonathan a patent clerk who did poorly in school and was reported on occasion to forget to put his pants on would have had no place in a discussion of the theory of relativity.
Carefully crafted arguments, my ass! Pay attention!
Ah, I see. So Mr. Henson is comparable to Albert E.?
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
jeeesus christ, how many trolls have fallen back on this argument? "it was a big social experiment all along and you danced on your strings like good little puppets, JUST AS I PLANNED!!!" well, congrats for "discovering" that most rational humans tend to respond to stupidity with scorn and ridicule. boy, you really manipulated us...
now i'm going to go home and call my wife a cunt and when she slaps me i'm going to shout, "a-HA! my insult made you angry, JUST AS I PLANNED!!! ah, i can play upon you like a pipe, my dear! HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!"
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Research, please. Albert Einstein did great in school as a child. Just because you didn't doesn't mean you can continue spreading slanderous lies about the 20th century's most prominent scientist. You're no Einstein.
Go read your "100 proof" thread. As soon as somebody with the patience to answer you showed up, you stopped replying.
Maybe I'm going to try and ignore the fact that you people will bend over backwards to avoid a confrontation where you have to defend your atheistic position by discussing the Bible and I am going to do something I rarely do. I'm going to force it down your throats until you are able to puke it back up at me.
You're an idiot, Johnny.
ok. as i said on another thread, i'm willing to discuss the nuts and bolts of the bible. i don't know how you're going to use it to dismantle atheism, and i'm not going to get into the wider arguments for or against god because they've already been beaten to death here on both sides of the issue, but if you really want to engage on questions of exegesis or contextualization or etiology or whatever, i'm as qualified as anyone else here to speak to those issues, and more-so than most. just please realize that i don't stay by my computer night and day and that a decent reply might take time to prepare. i know some people like to claim victory if their opponent has been silent for a few days.
feel free to start a thread with your biblical arguments. just please be as concise as possible. i hate walls of text and i have no time for them. as far as i'm concerned, there's no need to provide sources unless asked for, as excessive citations clutter things up. i don't think there's any need for one-on-one as i'm not necessarily looking for a debate. i'm not sure what you're looking for.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I'm looking for you! Except for the nonsense about me allegedly trying to dismantle atheism this post you have made is a dream come true.
ok, well, your terms over on the other thread are acceptable to me. i don't know why my words were "nonsense." you mentioned defending our atheist position by discussing the bible, so naturally i assume you're trying to do the opposite.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
The idea of dismantling atheism to me is nonsense. Why would I want to devote my time to that and why would I do it on the Internet? That sort of thing. I just like the feedback. Get other people's ideas. Test them out.
...
*Laughs at delusional theists*
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Any idea what the previous post said. All I read is ...
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Nope, I was a little preoccupied last night...
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.