Question(s) for the atheists...

ghostrider9876
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Question(s) for the atheists...

I'd figure this is the right forum for it, and I couldn't think of a good way to search for this question, so...

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in God (or insert deity of your choosing).  What is it about believers that bothers you?  Bear with me for a moment while I lay this out.  I consider myself Christian.  My belief system encourages things like humane treatment of your fellow man, honesty, loyalty, marital fidelity, and leaving anger out of decision-making.  (Yes, yes, I know about the "angry God" stuff from the Bible; I'm talking about the followers, here.)  It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.  Those who practice any of these behaviors (mostly violence) and claim it's in the name of God--or other deity--apparently didn't do the research.  But what do you have against someone like me, that you think I'm broken and need to be fixed?  What about Theism is so terrible that it needs to be wiped from the face of the earth?

 

My other question is less serious, but it's bugging me: Why do the people who run this site allow banner ads for OurPrayer.org and other God-believing agencies?  Is it just a monetary thing?


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Do you think you'd be less

Do you think you'd be less moral and commit more crimes if you didn't have christianity to "encourage" you?


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ghostrider9876 wrote:My

ghostrider9876 wrote:

My other question is less serious, but it's bugging me: Why do the people who run this site allow banner ads for OurPrayer.org and other God-believing agencies?  Is it just a monetary thing?

 

Google ads uses "ad sense" to detect the sort of adds it wants to place on a site. This site is categorically religious so it gets religious content.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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ghostrider9876 wrote:What is

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What is it about believers that bothers you?

 

The 'holier than thou' thing pisses me off when I'm clearly better than any theist that ever lived.

The penchant for killing in the name of the diety of choice. Annoying.

Just the utter fuckwittedness of religion is aggrevating to the max.

That idiotic vacant look when they come over all devout. [PUKE]

The list is endless, TBH....

ghostrider9876 wrote:
It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.

 

It really doesn't, it just gives people someone to blame and whip out the 'No True Scotsman' argument when one of their own does something wrong.

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


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Abu Lahab wrote: The

Abu Lahab wrote:

 

The 'holier than thou' thing pisses me off when I'm clearly better than any theist that ever lived.

Unless that's a joke, I'll remind you about glass houses and stones.

Abu Lahab wrote:
The penchant for killing in the name of the diety of choice. Annoying.

Which, as I already said, is a symptom of getting it wrong.  We're directed to tell people what we believe, not kill them if they refuse to convert.

Abu Lahab wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:
It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.

 

It really doesn't, it just gives people someone to blame and whip out the 'No True Scotsman' argument when one of their own does something wrong.

What I said was that it discourages those things.  Y'know, like, say, in the Ten Commandments.  People do them anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that the core beliefs teach that it's wrong.

 

 

Maybe I'm being too broad, here.  Perhaps I should ask if you can pick anything--other than "God exists"--out of *my* beliefs, as described above, that you have an issue with.


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Ciarin wrote:Do you think

Ciarin wrote:

Do you think you'd be less moral and commit more crimes if you didn't have christianity to "encourage" you?


pauljohntheskeptic
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ghostrider9876 wrote:What

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in God (or insert deity of your choosing).  What is it about believers that bothers you?

What is it about non-believers that Christians feel they need to fix by going door to door? To save us and take us to Jesus?

Perhaps we are trying to save you and bring you to reality. 

Religious beliefs are fixated in fantasy and myth. This causes believers to operate in the world with a flawed operating system. If the basis of the belief is flawed because it's not true, many decisions made will be based on incorrect data and assumptions.

Over the centuries these flaws in the operating system which is religious based have resulted in many very poor decisions and actions. This continues today. As for example, Muslim Jihad, the Irish war between Catholics and Protestants, Christians pushing beliefs about marriage, sexual preferance, and morality.

 

ghostrider9876 wrote:
 

Bear with me for a moment while I lay this out.  I consider myself Christian.  My belief system encourages things like humane treatment of your fellow man, honesty, loyalty, marital fidelity, and leaving anger out of decision-making.  (Yes, yes, I know about the "angry God" stuff from the Bible; I'm talking about the followers, here.)  It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.  Those who practice any of these behaviors (mostly violence) and claim it's in the name of God--or other deity--apparently didn't do the research. 

All of the things you mention have been around since the time of the Sumerians in ancient Iraq. A society will degenerate and fall when it falls into chaos which a world without honesty would become. Martial fidelity and adultery are simply breaking a contract or commitment to another and have no business being treated any other way. I'm personally against marriage but that's another story.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

But what do you have against someone like me, that you think I'm broken and need to be fixed?

If you aren't trying to press your morality, values, and beliefs on others, Peace to You and have a good day. If you are in favor of anything that imposes your beliefs on others, such as opposing gay marriage, group marriage, no marriage, pornography, teaching creationism fantasy in public schools, having the word God in or on anything that is part of the government or victimless crimes then that's the problem. 

 

ghostrider9876 wrote:
 

My other question is less serious, but it's bugging me: Why do the people who run this site allow banner ads for OurPrayer.org and other God-believing agencies?  Is it just a monetary thing?

Google Ads generate cash for this site. The ads are driven by content, so if we talk about Islam or Muslims we will get Ads for Moslem Women. If we talk about Judaism, we will get Jewish ads.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Ciarin wrote:Do you think

Ciarin wrote:

Do you think you'd be less moral and commit more crimes if you didn't have christianity to "encourage" you?

 

A criminal?  Probably not.  But less moral.......eh, the possibility is there.  Particularly with regards to smaller issues regarding my treatment of my fellow man.  I won't lie and say that I have no base urges/thoughts, and it's possible that if I didn't have the beliefs that I do, I might have a very different idea of right and wrong.

Of course, that's entirely conjecture; I could just as easily have become someone very similar to who I am.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with "Maybe, but I'm not sure."


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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:If

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

If you aren't trying to press your morality, values, and beliefs on others, Peace to You and have a good day. If you are in favor of anything that imposes your beliefs on others, such as opposing gay marriage, group marriage, no marriage, pornography, teaching creationism fantasy in public schools, having the word God in or on anything that is part of the government or victimless crimes then that's the problem. 

 

I don't attempt to force my beliefs on other people.  I will talk about what I believe; I will make no secret of it, especially if the topic comes up.  However, I do not think that trying to -make- someone else share my beliefs is productive.  Everyone is an individual, and an individual is free to make up their own mind about what they do or don't believe, including the existence (or not) of God.  (Indeed, most individuals insist upon their freedom to choose, myself included.)  "Live and let live," as it were.  I've run across a few atheists who would benefit from this attitude.  It might keep them from openly insulting people because of their beliefs.  In fairness, most religions would benefit from it too--we wouldn't have any holy wars, for starters.

 

Having said that: I'm allowed to be opposed to/in favor of any of the things you mentioned, as long as I maintain the "live and let live" philosophy.  I'm entitled to my personal opinions on things.  I actually am in favor of separation of church and state; otherwise much needless controversy is generated.  I'm not sure I get what you mean by "victimless crimes" though.

 

Also, thanks to you and ubuntuanyone up there for clearing up the ads thing.  It was giving me a headache.  Smiling


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ghostrider9876 wrote:What I

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I said was that it discourages those things.  Y'know, like, say, in the Ten Commandments.  People do them anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that the core beliefs teach that it's wrong.

Maybe I'm being too broad, here.  Perhaps I should ask if you can pick anything--other than "God exists"--out of *my* beliefs, as described above, that you have an issue with.

Yeah those 10 commandments, in case you haven't bothered with the bible are broken all the time in the actual bible. Especially that thou shalt not kill. See it really only works in the following setting, thou shalt not kill a jew.....that's it. Otherwise all others are fair game, chronicles 1:21, deuteronomy 3, joshua 6, judges 21, Hosea 13:16, psalms 137:9 and kings 10:18-27 pretty much over 2 million people are either killed by the followers of god or by god directly.

So next lets look at the commandments and actual punishment for all of them

1: thou shalt not have any other gods before me. The punishment is death as per Deuteronomy 17:1-5, 13:6-10, Exodus 22:20

2: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below. The punishment for such things is god will curse you deuteronomy 17:1-5, basically painting, sculpture, wood working anything that resembles any life from on earth, heaven or in the water, god will curse you.

3: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain: Punishment for such an act is death, as per leviticus 24:16. The new testament says they will never be forgiven.

4: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy: Punishment for working on saturday is death, as per Exodus 31:15, numbers 15:32. Oddly enough Jesus goes against the father on this one....kinda funny really.

5: Honour thy father and thy mother: Punishment for this one is death again, Exodus 21:15-17

6: Thou shalt not kill: kinda odd considering up to date only 1 of the commandments does not require death.

7: Thou shalt not commit adultery: shockingly enough the punishment is death both the adulterer and the adulteress. Leviticus 20:10

8: Thou shalt not steal: Well the last three don't require death, this one is double the value of the theft exodus 22:4, no prison time, no banishment.

9: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour....well no real punishment for this one that I could find, just scorn really

10: Thou shalt not covet well this one is kinda up in the air, there is no clear stand on the actual punishment although in Joshua 7:21-25 Achan along with most of his family and farm animals were put to death, and Mk 7:22 lists this along side murder, adultery and blasphemy.

So yeah there is tendency towards violence in the bible, I mean technically speaking if a hindu came up and talked to you, your supposed to kill him, same goes for anyone that doesn't believe in your god and try's to talk about their god to you.


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 You know what bothers me

 You know what bothers me about believers? That's a good question by the way, you'll get a lot of responses to that. What bothers me is that they must know that their beliefs are a matter of time place and not verisimilitude (big word). It's so painfully obvious that it seems impossible that one would not know and understand that.

If you were born in a different place or at a different time you'd still probably believe in god with as much conviction as you do now, wholeheartedly I assume, but it would be a different god. You would still have no evidence. Your claims would be just as credible as they are now. Meaning that they would be completely incredible and fantastic with no basis in reality whatsoever and you would still go to absurd lengths to defend the idea as if it was a product of your own mind, or that your whole life was literally invested in it and you'd die if it turned out to be wrong.

I can understand how someone could acknowledge that their most sincerely held beliefs and convictions might as well have been pick at random, and in a sense they were, yet still believe. But why would you try to debate? Why would you attempt to throw your hat into that intellectual arena where it clearly doesn't belong? Why would you come into this lions den? Lions eat Christians.

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latincanuck

latincanuck wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I said was that it discourages those things.  Y'know, like, say, in the Ten Commandments.  People do them anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that the core beliefs teach that it's wrong.

Maybe I'm being too broad, here.  Perhaps I should ask if you can pick anything--other than "God exists"--out of *my* beliefs, as described above, that you have an issue with.

Yeah those 10 commandments, in case you haven't bothered with the bible are broken all the time in the actual bible. Especially that thou shalt not kill. See it really only works in the following setting, thou shalt not kill a jew.....that's it. Otherwise all others are fair game, chronicles 1:21, deuteronomy 3, joshua 6, judges 21, Hosea 13:16, psalms 137:9 and kings 10:18-27 pretty much over 2 million people are either killed by the followers of god or by god directly.

So next lets look at the commandments and actual punishment for all of them

1: thou shalt not have any other gods before me. The punishment is death as per Deuteronomy 17:1-5, 13:6-10, Exodus 22:20

2: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below. The punishment for such things is god will curse you deuteronomy 17:1-5, basically painting, sculpture, wood working anything that resembles any life from on earth, heaven or in the water, god will curse you.

3: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain: Punishment for such an act is death, as per leviticus 24:16. The new testament says they will never be forgiven.

4: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy: Punishment for working on saturday is death, as per Exodus 31:15, numbers 15:32. Oddly enough Jesus goes against the father on this one....kinda funny really.

5: Honour thy father and thy mother: Punishment for this one is death again, Exodus 21:15-17

6: Thou shalt not kill: kinda odd considering up to date only 1 of the commandments does not require death.

7: Thou shalt not commit adultery: shockingly enough the punishment is death both the adulterer and the adulteress. Leviticus 20:10

8: Thou shalt not steal: Well the last three don't require death, this one is double the value of the theft exodus 22:4, no prison time, no banishment.

9: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour....well no real punishment for this one that I could find, just scorn really

10: Thou shalt not covet well this one is kinda up in the air, there is no clear stand on the actual punishment although in Joshua 7:21-25 Achan along with most of his family and farm animals were put to death, and Mk 7:22 lists this along side murder, adultery and blasphemy.

So yeah there is tendency towards violence in the bible, I mean technically speaking if a hindu came up and talked to you, your supposed to kill him, same goes for anyone that doesn't believe in your god and try's to talk about their god to you.

 

I see.  Did you miss the bit where Jesus established a new covenant?  There are many laws (especially those regarding animal sacrifices) in the OT that were canceled following the sacrifice of Christ.  It would logically follow that everything doesn't necessarily have to have a death penalty anymore.  It does, however, seem to me that most of the commandments are still a pretty good idea--like I said before, don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.

I'm pretty sure that if I went around killing Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that I would be deservedly denounced by any religion I tried to claim I was adhering to.  In this day and age, nobody who commits violence/atrocity in the name of any supreme being is playing with a full deck of cards.  Witness the 9/11 hijackers, for instance.  I'm no scholar of Islam but I don't think Allah condones that sort of behavior.

And I always thought the "graven images" thing was more about idolatry.  The golden calf, for instance.


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Gauche wrote: You know what

Gauche wrote:

 You know what bothers me about believers? That's a good question by the way, you'll get a lot of responses to that. What bothers me is that they must know that their beliefs are a matter of time place and not verisimilitude (big word). It's so painfully obvious that it seems impossible that one would not know and understand that.

If you were born in a different place or at a different time you'd still probably believe in god with as much conviction as you do now, wholeheartedly I assume, but it would be a different god. You would still have no evidence. Your claims would be just as credible as they are now. Meaning that they would be completely incredible and fantastic with no basis in reality whatsoever and you would still go to absurd lengths to defend the idea as if it was a product of your own mind, or that your whole life was literally invested in it and you'd die if it turned out to be wrong.

I can understand how someone could acknowledge that their most sincerely held beliefs and convictions might as well have been pick at random, and in a sense they were, yet still believe. But why would you try to debate? Why would you attempt to throw your hat into that intellectual arena where it clearly doesn't belong? Why would you come into this lions den? Lions eat Christians.

 

It occurs to me that you're probably exactly the type of person I was thinking of when I initially asked the question.  Allow me to refine.  Why do *you* care what *I* believe?  You say my beliefs may as well have been picked at random, and that they have no basis in reality, and I'll defend them to absurd lengths, yada yada yada...  But why does that bother you?  How does a faith that I have affect you?

I will acknowledge that you may have a point about the time and place thing; if I'd been primarily exposed to an entirely different belief system my entire life, odds are pretty good I wouldn't hold the same beliefs that I do.  But, since that isn't what happened...

At what point did I initiate a debate?  I asked what it was that was so wrong with a belief in a deity that it grinds the gears of people like you.  I made no attempt to debate the existence of God or the validity of my beliefs and, as you say, it's a very tricky proposition to do so on a site made by and primarily for atheists (I'll leave that to people who are better-versed in theology and willing to put in more effort than I am).  I'll even acknowledge that, yes, there is no scientific evidence that proves God (or any other) exists, and there probably never will be, so, since it's not science, it's not really a matter for intellectual debate.  I might point out, too, that any and all religious beliefs are a matter of faith; therefore, since they don't operate on concrete, verifiable facts, they're not a matter for intellectual debate.  Note: *DO NOT* misinterpret this as any sort of concession that only intellectually inferior people are religious--let the record show that's not what I said.

One other thing: the lions didn't eat Daniel.  Apologies to Ray Parker Jr, but "I ain't 'fraid of no atheist."


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ghostrider9876 wrote:What

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in God

5% because I truly believe you'd be better off, 95% because I believe the world would be.   In your beliefs you see goodness and morality, well i can find some of that in the teachings of the bible aswell although not much.  A rational mind sees the bigger picture, your beliefs contradict other religions, you are an infidel to a muslim and going to his "hell, and he is worshiping a false god and going to your "hell".  

"We CANNOT expect to outlive our religious differences indefinetly"

Sam harris

 

That's why we must fix you.  Not because you believe in god, because you give him a name and claim you speak on his behalf.  This causes confusion, obviously their are others who also have these claims of representing god that conflict with yours, this will always cause confusion, arrogance, and conflict.  We cannot except this, it is so obviously dangerous to our world.  You see we care about the planet and humanity in THIS world, not some afterlife that doesn't exist.   

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 What is it about believers that bothers you? 

  Oh my what a delicious question!!!  I would assume because you are christian you believe in a hell of some kind, maybe not (Billy graham doesn't believe in hell.)  But if you do i say we could start there.  Eternal torture is wrong in every way and there is simply no justifying it.  You claim a freepass from this fate, why, because your imaginary friend told you so and certainly no one else from any other belief system according to you.  Asserting not only that god exists when you cant prove he does, but that this god has picked you in particular above others to go to this heaven is mindfuckingly arrogant.  I mean dont get me wrong i can be arrogant, but thats a hole other level.

   Secondly i am discusted with people teaching their kids violent stories in the bible, or even having them hear them at church.  Kids get very afraid very easily, kids should NEVER have to hear stories about the entire world being abolished, parents building alters to sacrifice their children to god, god sending bears to tear gangs of children to pieces, god sending angels to kill children, giant fire balls from heaven, etc...  This is child abuse, and its sick!!!  We censor movies for a reason, we dont let 4 year olds watch the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" not just because they would be having nightmares for days if not weeks, but more because its simply wrong, even you wouldnt do that!!!  I have a niece who just celebrated her 3rd birthday today, i love that kid so much and i feel very protective of her, she is the definition of innocence.  If i walked in on you telling these stories to her i'd knock straight you on your ass, no joke man you wouldnt be gettng up for a while.  As would i if you forced her to watch "The Exorcist" or porn.  It is wrong to tell these stories to kids, honestly it makes me sick.

 

The more i think about this question the more bothered i get about you and your beliefs, i coud go on all night, but chew on the first 2.  I would love really like to hear your response. 

        


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ghostrider9876 wrote:Yeah,

ghostrider9876 wrote:
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with "Maybe, but I'm not sure."

Good answer.

ghostrider9876 wrote:
In this day and age, nobody who commits violence/atrocity in the name of any supreme being is playing with a full deck of cards.  Witness the 9/11 hijackers, for instance.  I'm no scholar of Islam but I don't think Allah condones that sort of behavior.

Depends on who you ask.


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I would suggest that you

I would suggest that you learn how to spell, but this is the internet, so I'd be wasting my energy.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

5% because I truly believe you'd be better off, 95% because I believe the world would be.   In your beliefs you see goodness and morality, well i can find some of that in the teachings of the bible aswell although not much.  A rational mind sees the bigger picture, your beliefs contradict other religions, you are an infidel to a muslim and going to his "hell, and he is worshiping a false god and going to your "hell".  

I don't walk around telling other people they're going to hell.  It's not my place or my right to condemn anyone for what they believe.  (Nor is it yours.)

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

That's why we must fix you.  Not because you believe in god, because you give him a name and claim you speak on his behalf.  This causes confusion, obviously their are others who also have these claims of representing god that conflict with yours, this will always cause confusion, arrogance, and conflict.  We cannot except this, it is so obviously dangerous to our world.  You see we care about the planet and humanity in THIS world, not some afterlife that doesn't exist.   

Good luck trying to fix me.  I don't really think that anything I read on here is going to demolish my faith.  I don't see where I claimed to speak on God's behalf.  I'll agree with you that religious conflict is very dangerous to this world; it's the reason for a lot of the wars in the history of humanity.  But there again, you have people claiming to do in the name of their god that which is not condoned by the teachings of their religion.  Means they weren't paying attention.  And I submit to you that it's entirely possible to care about the humanity in this world even if one is concerned about the afterlife.  I know I do.

I'd also like to ask you something.  Do you truly, honestly, wholeheartedly believe that if there were no theism/religion, that all the other problems of the world would just magically get better?  I don't think religion is the sole underlying cause of things like famine, war, hatred, racism, crimes against humanity...

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

  Oh my what a delicious question!!!  I would assume because you are christian you believe in a hell of some kind, maybe not (Billy graham doesn't believe in hell.)  But if you do i say we could start there.  Eternal torture is wrong in every way and there is simply no justifying it.  You claim a freepass from this fate, why, because your imaginary friend told you so and certainly no one else from any other belief system according to you.  Asserting not only that god exists when you cant prove he does, but that this god has picked you in particular above others to go to this heaven is mindfuckingly arrogant.  I mean dont get me wrong i can be arrogant, but thats a hole other level.

I respect an atheist's right to believe whatever they want; it would be nice if I were accorded the same level of respect and terms like "imaginary friend" and "mindf***ingly arrogant" weren't used, but like I said before, this is the internet...

...I started to post something about hell, but I think that would be a waste of my time.  Especially considering I didn't start this thread to debate the validity of my beliefs.  I will say that I don't believe I'm better than other people, or that I personally have been hand-selected to go to Heaven; that's not really how it works.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

   Secondly i am discusted with people teaching their kids violent stories in the bible, or even having them hear them at church.  Kids get very afraid very easily, kids should NEVER have to hear stories about the entire world being abolished, parents building alters to sacrifice their children to god, god sending bears to tear gangs of children to pieces, god sending angels to kill children, giant fire balls from heaven, etc...  This is child abuse, and its sick!!!  We censor movies for a reason, we dont let 4 year olds watch the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" not just because they would be having nightmares for days if not weeks, but more because its simply wrong, even you wouldnt do that!!!  I have a niece who just celebrated her 3rd birthday today, i love that kid so much and i feel very protective of her, she is the definition of innocence.  If i walked in on you telling these stories to her i'd knock straight you on your ass, no joke man you wouldnt be gettng up for a while.  As would i if you forced her to watch "The Exorcist" or porn.  It is wrong to tell these stories to kids, honestly it makes me sick.

 

The more i think about this question the more bothered i get about you and your beliefs, i coud go on all night, but chew on the first 2.  I would love really like to hear your response. 

        

Well, on at least one thing, I agree with you.  There are things--including, yes, some things in the Bible--kids should not be exposed to.  I would wonder what sort of church you've heard talking to little kids about the violent events that take place in the Bible; the one I used to go to had common sense enough not to do things like that.  As far as not letting children watch movies like "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre," well--you haven't been to many movie theaters lately, have you?  Eye-wink  I'd never take a 3-year-old (yours, mine, anyone's) to see THE EXORCIST or a porno, but I've seen toddlers sitting in R-rated movies with their parents.  You can be a lousy parent no matter what your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are.


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Anonymouse wrote:Depends on

Anonymouse wrote:

Depends on who you ask.

 

Granted, but if you asked a significant majority of Muslims, they'd tell you those people were insane extremists.  Christianity is not without those, either, but I expect a significant majority of us don't think the Crusades or the Inquisition were good ideas.


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ghostrider9876 wrote:I would

Sorry.  Hit "quote" when I meant to edit one.  I was going to add @ NoMoreCrazyPeople:

If you want to bring up arrogance, I should mention that the thing that got me to sign up and post my thread was the slogan on the header.  "Believe in God?  We can fix that."  Would you seriously contend that this motto doesn't suggest at least a little bit of arrogance?


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ghostrider9876 wrote:What

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in God (or insert deity of your choosing).

I have not found a single belief in god that is based on evidence only faith. I see faith a harmful addition to humanity.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  What is it about believers that bothers you?

To believe something without evidence. Faith...

The amount of thinking required to do something on faith is 0 no matter what action it is. 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I consider myself Christian.  My belief system encourages things like humane treatment of your fellow man, honesty, loyalty, marital fidelity, and leaving anger out of decision-making.

Funny how none of those things are required for Christianity and all those things are achievable without it.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.

What does your belief system or Christianity???  They seem different.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  Those who practice any of these behaviors (mostly violence) and claim it's in the name of God--or other deity--apparently didn't do the research.

Is this a no true Scotts man?

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  But what do you have against someone like me, that you think I'm broken and need to be fixed?  What about Theism is so terrible that it needs to be wiped from the face of the earth?

 

You are enabling this thing called faith.  So where do you draw the line to when things can and cannot be done with faith?  You enable faith which also means you enable any action based on said systems.    Kind of like a mother who gives her junky son money.


 

Sounds made up...
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No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.


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ghostrider9876

ghostrider9876 wrote:
Granted, but if you asked a significant majority of Muslims, they'd tell you those people were insane extremists.

True, they'll tell us, but they won't tell the extremists that they're insane. Moderates tend to be extremely forgiving towards their more insane brethren.

Still, to be fair, I've noticed a few individual muslims speaking out against extremism.

ghostrider9876 wrote:
Christianity is not without those, either, but I expect a significant majority of us don't think the Crusades or the Inquisition were good ideas.

That's good to hear. I've heard too many christians claim that the crusades and the inquisition are nothing but atheist propaganda, or deny that they even happened at all, so this is rather refreshing.


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ghostrider9876 wrote:I don't

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I don't walk around telling other people they're going to hell.  It's not my place or my right to condemn anyone for what they believe.  (Nor is it yours.)

Nor is it mine?????  I dont believe in hell.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I'd also like to ask you something.  Do you truly, honestly, wholeheartedly believe that if there were no theism/religion, that all the other problems of the world would just magically get better? 

Not all, but many and the most important ones at that.  And not magically, realistically.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I respect an atheist's right to believe whatever they want; it would be nice if I were accorded the same level of respect and terms like "imaginary friend" and "mindf***ingly arrogant" weren't used, but like I said before, this is the internet...

 

He is imaginary, and you are mindfuckingly arrogant to believe hes chosen you and people of your faith over good people of others to go to his heaven.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

Well, on at least one thing, I agree with you.  There are things--including, yes, some things in the Bible--kids should not be exposed to.  I would wonder what sort of church you've heard talking to little kids about the violent events that take place in the Bible

I was raised Jehovahs Witness and they give children big yellow books with illustrated pictures of the flood, plagues, and many other of the nasties in the bible, sick!!!  You may not do that, but the stories are still heard, kids arn't stupid, they can read through the lines, ive seen of many times in which an R rated bible story was being told to a child.  Are you seriously saying this doesn't happen in your religion, and in other religions aswell, common.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

   As far as not letting children watch movies like "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre," well--you haven't been to many movie theaters lately, have you?  Eye-wink  I'd never take a 3-year-old (yours, mine, anyone's) to see THE EXORCIST or a porno, but I've seen toddlers sitting in R-rated movies with their parents.  You can be a lousy parent no matter what your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are.

Yes and i would also say its wrong for any parent to force a 3 year old to watch an R rated film.  So whats your argument exactly, that because this is wrong but lousy parents do it, that also reading the bible to children should happen although wrong? BUNK 


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ghostrider9876 wrote:Having

ghostrider9876 wrote:

Having said that: I'm allowed to be opposed to/in favor of any of the things you mentioned, as long as I maintain the "live and let live" philosophy.  I'm entitled to my personal opinions on things.  I actually am in favor of separation of church and state; otherwise much needless controversy is generated.  I'm not sure I get what you mean by "victimless crimes" though.

Obviously you can believe anything you like as long as you have the philosophy of basically to each their own and practise it. 

Victimless crimes are laws that prosecute people for doing something that either harms no one or involves possible harm only to oneself. Such crimes are things like prostitution, smoking pot, or blasphemy of a non-existent entity. There is no crime in insulting the gods of the Hindus or the ancient Greeks even from your view. Insulting the believers is however something else and there is a fine line between criticism for the belief and those that follow it. It follows from this that when believers actively propagate their agenda by insulting non-believers with comments such as "you will burn in Hell" they have crossed a line. What people believe is their business. 

Does the the comment, "Believe in God? We can fix that." fit the mold of an insult to the believer? Is it of the same type of attack as a Christian spouting off about how the atheist will burn in Hell? Is it more of a statement of a viewpoint. Examine the 2 statements and consider what both imply.

In the case of the statement, "Believe in God, we can fix that" it states simply a view that this group holds. It is most similar to Jesus Saves. Jesus Saves implies a view that believers in Jesus hold. On the other hand, "you will burn in Hell if you don't accept Jesus and God" is an attack on non-believers. An atheist slogan of something like "Christians are fools  and idiots who throw away their lives" is much like "you will burn in Hell". Jesus in the Gospels gave the command to go and teach all nations. He did not give a command to go and damn all those that don't accept him. He in fact made it clear that man is not to judge others for their views.

If you found the slogan insulting to your beliefs then should we find Jesus Saves to be insulting to our non-belief? Some people do no doubt. Think about it.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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ghostrider9876 wrote:  It

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  It discourages things like theft, lying, adultery, violence, hatred, and cruelty.  Those who practice any of these behaviors (mostly violence) and claim it's in the name of God--or other deity--apparently didn't do the research.

You've hit the nail on the head.

I understand where you're coming from. "THOSE people who do THOSE things aren't REALLY Christian." But you have to understand how huge of a problem that is. And it's not just Christianity where this happens. It's in all religions. And those of you who feel you truly represent what your religion stands for should be raking these people over the coals. You should be outraged. Because those people who do those things very much consider themselves Christians.

You might say to yourself, "Well, those people will be judged by God", but the problem is that they are doing really bad things NOW. They need to be judged right away to prevent future misuse of your religion.

This, and the existence of multiple religions in the first place, is proof enough to me that there is no God. If God could create the universe, then why can't he sort out how people worship him? If he had any appreciation for efficiency, he would just come down from the heavens and say "OK people, here's how we're going to do it."

Personally, I don't have a problem with you or any other theist as long as you don't use your religion as an excuse for actions (or INactions) that cause bad things to happen.

 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

My other question is less serious, but it's bugging me: Why do the people who run this site allow banner ads for OurPrayer.org and other God-believing agencies?  Is it just a monetary thing?

It's all done automatically. The site administrators have no control. The ads are generated based on site content and since this site primarily has religious content (even though it's largely anti-religion) you'll see primarily religious ads.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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ghostrider9876 wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

Depends on who you ask.

 

Granted, but if you asked a significant majority of Muslims, they'd tell you those people were insane extremists.  Christianity is not without those, either, but I expect a significant majority of us don't think the Crusades or the Inquisition were good ideas.

Ah, but they're the ones who get all the media attention.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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ghostrider9876 wrote:What

ghostrider9876 wrote:

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in God (or insert deity of your choosing).

You believe in something that isn't there; you talk to it, it talks back to you; it tells you to do things; who to love; who to hate; who to kill; who you should screw.  We call that having a delusion.  You are delusional.  We love you and want to help you get out of your delusion.  Liberate your mind and throw your god away.

Liberate your mind. Fuck religion.


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ghostrider9876 wrote:It

ghostrider9876 wrote:

It occurs to me that you're probably exactly the type of person I was thinking of when I initially asked the question.  Allow me to refine.  Why do *you* care what *I* believe?  You say my beliefs may as well have been picked at random, and that they have no basis in reality, and I'll defend them to absurd lengths, yada yada yada...  But why does that bother you?  How does a faith that I have affect you?

I will acknowledge that you may have a point about the time and place thing; if I'd been primarily exposed to an entirely different belief system my entire life, odds are pretty good I wouldn't hold the same beliefs that I do.  But, since that isn't what happened...

At what point did I initiate a debate?  I asked what it was that was so wrong with a belief in a deity that it grinds the gears of people like you.  I made no attempt to debate the existence of God or the validity of my beliefs and, as you say, it's a very tricky proposition to do so on a site made by and primarily for atheists (I'll leave that to people who are better-versed in theology and willing to put in more effort than I am).  I'll even acknowledge that, yes, there is no scientific evidence that proves God (or any other) exists, and there probably never will be, so, since it's not science, it's not really a matter for intellectual debate.  I might point out, too, that any and all religious beliefs are a matter of faith; therefore, since they don't operate on concrete, verifiable facts, they're not a matter for intellectual debate.  Note: *DO NOT* misinterpret this as any sort of concession that only intellectually inferior people are religious--let the record show that's not what I said.

One other thing: the lions didn't eat Daniel.  Apologies to Ray Parker Jr, but "I ain't 'fraid of no atheist."


It's a subtle yet important distinction and one which must be parsed in order to continue this discussion constructively. I don't like the idea of god belief in general or your religion in particular for reasons that are fairly typical. However, the mere fact that you believe is of no consequence to me at all.

I don't even have a way of knowing that you believe unless you act. I know that you believe because you've come here beliefs in hand, baffled apparently by the fact that anyone could possibly take exception with your peculiar brand of bronze-age mythology.

So here you are having acted, operating seemingly from the assumption that your beliefs are at worst benign and at best the saving grace of the entire universe, with this sort of babe in the woods routine where we're to believe that you're so naive that you hold Christianity to be so virtuous and incorruptible that you can't understand how anyone could have a problem with it.

And that's what I don't like. It's not enough for you to be enthralled with fantasy and allow that fantasy to reside between your ears with all the other dragons and hobgoblins. You need to act out obviously with your victim role, accusatory tone, cryptic language and bizarre logic about how your religious beliefs can't actually be defended yet we still can't criticize them anyway.  

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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ghostrider9876 wrote:I

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I see.  Did you miss the bit where Jesus established a new covenant?  There are many laws (especially those regarding animal sacrifices) in the OT that were canceled following the sacrifice of Christ.  It would logically follow that everything doesn't necessarily have to have a death penalty anymore.  It does, however, seem to me that most of the commandments are still a pretty good idea--like I said before, don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.

I'm pretty sure that if I went around killing Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that I would be deservedly denounced by any religion I tried to claim I was adhering to.  In this day and age, nobody who commits violence/atrocity in the name of any supreme being is playing with a full deck of cards.  Witness the 9/11 hijackers, for instance.  I'm no scholar of Islam but I don't think Allah condones that sort of behavior.

And I always thought the "graven images" thing was more about idolatry.  The golden calf, for instance.

Graven images are not status alone, they are paintings as well, drawings, etc, etc, etc, basically any image that depicts animals, humans, angels, saints, god etc, etc, etc. So the picture of jesus a HUGE NO NO, but of course christians tend to over look this part and ignore the commandment, very common thing to do.

As for the rest, here lies the contradictions now. Luke 16:17 shows your ignorance on the topic, as do various others, john 15:10 also states that you should keep the commandments of jesus as well as those of the father, but it never states you should change the punishment. Mark 10:17-19 jesus states to follow the commandments as well, no where are the commandments changed nor the punishment for them. The fun part is this one Psa 119:152,160 and Psa 111:7-8 contradicts your statement about changes in the law and punishment, as does Matt 5:18-20, as well Paul's teachings about changing of the law contradicts everything else in the bible about following the law, commandments.


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Wow.  So many different

Wow.  So many different ones I'd like to reply to.  I've got some errands to run with my wife, but I'll be back later.  You know, it honestly never occurred to me before how many different attitudes there could be within the overarching idea of atheism.    Some of you are clearly a little more level-headed than others; some of you are obviously more tolerant while some come off as angry reactionaries.  It's actually funny to me, because at least in that way atheism is a lot like religion.  Of course I guess that's just another way to say that we're all human...


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Atheism isn't a lot like

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion".


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ghostrider9876 wrote: I


ghostrider9876 wrote:

I see.  Did you miss the bit where Jesus established a new covenant?  There are many laws (especially those regarding animal sacrifices) in the OT that were canceled following the sacrifice of Christ.  It would logically follow that everything doesn't necessarily have to have a death penalty anymore.  It does, however, seem to me that most of the commandments are still a pretty good idea--like I said before, don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.

I'm pretty sure that if I went around killing Muslims, Buddhists, etc. that I would be deservedly denounced by any religion I tried to claim I was adhering to.  In this day and age, nobody who commits violence/atrocity in the name of any supreme being is playing with a full deck of cards.  Witness the 9/11 hijackers, for instance.  I'm no scholar of Islam but I don't think Allah condones that sort of behavior.

And I always thought the "graven images" thing was more about idolatry.  The golden calf, for instance.

So the old covenant (aka the 10 commandments) no longer applies to you?

That's Paulism, not Christianity. Didn't Christ say something about not abolishing the law but fulfilling it? I realize this doesn't mean much to you - they are only the words of the son of your God.

The laws you like are not original to the commandments - they were old when the Hebrews were young.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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ghostrider9876 wrote:Wow. 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

Wow.  So many different ones I'd like to reply to.  I've got some errands to run with my wife, but I'll be back later.  You know, it honestly never occurred to me before how many different attitudes there could be within the overarching idea of atheism.    Some of you are clearly a little more level-headed than others; some of you are obviously more tolerant while some come off as angry reactionaries.  It's actually funny to me, because at least in that way atheism is a lot like religion.  Of course I guess that's just another way to say that we're all human...

How is it like religion? All atheism is a a disbelief in god(s), supernatural deities, demi-gods and goddess(es). After that there is nothing else that they have in common. Atheists can be liberal, conservative, libertarians, communists, fascists, pacifists, etc, etc, etc. How you equate non belief in god as the same as religion which has rituals, dogmas and rules to follow the same as I don't believe in any gods....well it's kinda amusing really.


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ghostrider9876 wrote:You

ghostrider9876 wrote:

You know, it honestly never occurred to me before how many different attitudes there could be within the overarching idea of atheism.  

Athiesm isnt overarching, rationilsm is, it just happens to be that rational thinking leads to atheism.

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 It'sactually funny to me, because at least in that way atheism is a lot like religion. 

 

Not even close.

 


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   ...atheism is like a

   ...atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:  

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

   ...atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color.

Perfect!!!


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:  

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

   ...atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color.

Exactly!

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

   ...atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color.

Exactly!

   ( Yeah, it's an excellent metaphor, can't take credit for it though.  Some other witty atheist came up with it. ha ha. )

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Ciarin wrote:Atheism isn't a

Ciarin wrote:
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion".

This is by far the best thing you've put into print since you've been here.  I think I'm going to make it my new signature.  Thanks for a hearty belly laugh.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hang on a

Hang on a minute...

 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I've got some errands to run with my wife, but I'll be back later.

"Errands"...no way. Our hot, dirty atheist thoughts have infected his brain!

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Ya i ran some "errands"

Ya i ran some "errands" with my girlf friend this morning too, and if im feeling up it ill we"ll run some "errands" tnite too!!!


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*sigh*Did some of you, like,

*sigh*

Did some of you, like, actually READ AND UNDERSTAND what I said before you replied to it?  Just wondering.  And was it really necessary to make a sex joke out of running errands?  Really?  You don't think maybe that's reaching just a little bit?  I can think of a lot better euphemisms than "running errands," and I'm sure all of you can as well.

I said that it's interesting to me to see that under a general belief of atheism (or rationalism if you'd rather) that there were a lot of different attitudes about it, and about the opposing side (theists/religious people).  Also that some of you were more reasonable and more willing to have a straightforward, honest discussion, while others among you were snide, venomous, and reactionary.  I then went on to suggest that the same exact thing could be said of religions and their followers.  There are many different attitudes among theists (otherwise there'd only be one religion) and some of us are cool-headed, civilized people while others are short-tempered, overzealous, and hateful toward anyone who does not share their beliefs.  That was *the only* comparison I made between atheism and religion, and I still say it's true, because (as I went on to say) we're all human beings.  I'm well aware that atheism is not a religion, and I did not say that it was, but thank you all for playing--you were wonderful contestants.

I think I've actually gotten the answer I was after, now I come to think of it.  I asked what you had against theism in general, and received a broad variety of responses.  Some of them, I feel, are completely valid concerns: the horrible things people do for their gods, and people's attempts to cram their beliefs down others' throats, especially.  These things do happen, and they're usually harmful to others, so you have a good point.  Then there are the responses that accuse us of being delusional or otherwise insult us; I'll make no comment other than to say that these are personal opinions, and you're certainly entitled to them.

I'm trying to decide if I really do want to respond to some of the things that have been said here, or if I'd rather go back to playing Xbox 360.  I'm worried that I'll end up in an endless loop of having to constantly clarify what I said because someone didn't pay attention in the first place.  Not to mention that trying to talk to someone who already holds the unshakable conviction that I'm wrong is roughly as effective as beating my head against the wall (and almost as likely to produce a headache).


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ghostrider9876

ghostrider9876 wrote:

*sigh*

Did some of you, like, actually READ AND UNDERSTAND what I said before you replied to it?  Just wondering.  And was it really necessary to make a sex joke out of running errands?  Really?  You don't think maybe that's reaching just a little bit?  I can think of a lot better euphemisms than "running errands," and I'm sure all of you can as well.

Oh my, "GEEK ALERT", where's your sense of humor buddy do you think were serious???  haha  LLLLLAME!!!

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 There are many different attitudes among theists (otherwise there'd only be one religion) and some of us are cool-headed, civilized people while others are short-tempered, overzealous, and hateful toward anyone who does not share their beliefs.  That was *the only* comparison I made between atheism and religion, and I still say it's true, because (as I went on to say) we're all human beings. 

Yes we athiests come in all shapes and forms, and can be laid back or hot headed, but one thing you will not find in even the most fanatic athiest is the belief that theist are doomed to live some kind of "hell", or whatever sick fate you believe is coming to us. 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I'm trying to decide if I really do want to respond to some of the things that have been said here, or if I'd rather go back to playing Xbox 360.

 

You know the awnser to that, whats more imprtant, should you not want to save us??? 

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  I'm worried that I'll end up in an endless loop of having to constantly clarify what I said because someone didn't pay attention in the first place.  Not to mention that trying to talk to someone who already holds the unshakable conviction that I'm wrong is roughly as effective as beating my head against the wall (and almost as likely to produce a headache).

 

Welcome to our world of discussions with theists.  Atleast for you you are mostly talking to people who have spent allot of time using reason to form what they think, meaning if you say something worth critical thought, we will think critically about it.  For us howerever their is much more "banging head against the wall" discussions with theists who use no critical thought or reason atall for what believe.  So if you are reasonable, and you think clearly we are all ears. 


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There's another section of

There's another section of the forum called Kill em with Kindness that you may prefer to post in if you feel that people are being too abrasive or caustic. This is AVT, this is a debate forum with a lot of people in it who are just fucking mean. The kinds of questions that you're asking in this forum will elicit many responses that you would obviously just rather not deal with.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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NoMoreCrazyPeople

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

*sigh*

Did some of you, like, actually READ AND UNDERSTAND what I said before you replied to it?  Just wondering.  And was it really necessary to make a sex joke out of running errands?  Really?  You don't think maybe that's reaching just a little bit?  I can think of a lot better euphemisms than "running errands," and I'm sure all of you can as well.

Oh my, "GEEK ALERT", where's your sense of humor buddy do you think were serious???  haha  LLLLLAME!!!

I have a pretty good sense of humor, actually.  However, I simply don't find that joke funny.  As I said, there are much better euphemisms out there.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 There are many different attitudes among theists (otherwise there'd only be one religion) and some of us are cool-headed, civilized people while others are short-tempered, overzealous, and hateful toward anyone who does not share their beliefs.  That was *the only* comparison I made between atheism and religion, and I still say it's true, because (as I went on to say) we're all human beings. 

Yes we athiests come in all shapes and forms, and can be laid back or hot headed, but one thing you will not find in even the most fanatic athiest is the belief that theist are doomed to live some kind of "hell", or whatever sick fate you believe is coming to us. 

Didn't say that atheists believe theists are doomed.  At least I don't think I did.  *re-checks previous posts*  No, I didn't.  The ONLY comparison I did make between atheists and theists is an accurate one.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

I'm trying to decide if I really do want to respond to some of the things that have been said here, or if I'd rather go back to playing Xbox 360.

 

You know the awnser to that, whats more imprtant, should you not want to save us??? 

Gee, I don't know.  Can you save someone who doesn't believe they're in need of saving?  A previous poster mentioned that we're obligated to spread the news, not to force people to convert.  I feel that explaining what I believe fulfills this requirement.  An atheist does not believe in God nor in salvation through Him, and it's doubtful that anything I say will change their mind.  I think I'll stick to "saving" my games.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

  I'm worried that I'll end up in an endless loop of having to constantly clarify what I said because someone didn't pay attention in the first place.  Not to mention that trying to talk to someone who already holds the unshakable conviction that I'm wrong is roughly as effective as beating my head against the wall (and almost as likely to produce a headache).

 

Welcome to our world of discussions with theists.  Atleast for you you are mostly talking to people who have spent allot of time using reason to form what they think, meaning if you say something worth critical thought, we will think critically about it.  For us howerever their is much more "banging head against the wall" discussions with theists who use no critical thought or reason atall for what believe.  So if you are reasonable, and you think clearly we are all ears. 

For what it's worth, I am capable of critical thinking, logic, and reason.  I actually place a lot of stock in them, to the point where I over-analyze things.  (Infuriates my wife.)  Just because I choose to have faith in God doesn't automatically make me 100% irrational on everything.

 

By the way, those are cute dogs you have there.  Anybody who can get a dog to love them can't be too bad of a person, I always say...


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ghostrider9876

ghostrider9876 wrote:

*sigh*

Did some of you, like, actually READ AND UNDERSTAND what I said before you replied to it?  Just wondering.  And was it really necessary to make a sex joke out of running errands?  Really?  You don't think maybe that's reaching just a little bit?  I can think of a lot better euphemisms than "running errands," and I'm sure all of you can as well.

Now ghostrider, if you can't take a relatively benign joke, you're not going to last long here at all.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


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ghostrider9876

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 

 We're directed to tell people what we believe, not kill them if they refuse to convert.

 

Why would you come out with a comment like this when asking us why we contest your opinion about an invisible deity?

We're not allowed an informed opinion and you are entitled to an uninformed?

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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ghostrider9876 wrote:What is

ghostrider9876 wrote:
What is it about believers that bothers you?

Their arrogance they have the one true religion, the god of the entire universe is their personal friend who actually cares for them.  Yes, that is ultimate arrogance.

 

 

I am an atheist because I do not believe in any Gods or anything related to the imaginary subjective supernatural realm that does not exist outside the mind. -- NotSaved


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geirj wrote:ghostrider9876

geirj wrote:

ghostrider9876 wrote:

*sigh*

Did some of you, like, actually READ AND UNDERSTAND what I said before you replied to it?  Just wondering.  And was it really necessary to make a sex joke out of running errands?  Really?  You don't think maybe that's reaching just a little bit?  I can think of a lot better euphemisms than "running errands," and I'm sure all of you can as well.

Now ghostrider, if you can't take a relatively benign joke, you're not going to last long here at all.

 

I can take a joke.  In retrospect I should've separated those two sentiments, as the "Read and understand" comment was about some entirely different earlier posts.  I'm aware the sex euphemism joke was exactly that--a joke.  It didn't upset me, I just felt it wasn't very funny.  You know, like some of those sketches on SNL or MadTV that are *supposed* to be funny, but end up demonstrating how painful it is to watch comedic performers stretch for a laugh that just...isn't...there.

@ Atheistextremist: It was in response to Abu Lahab's statement about killing in the name of deities.  I was just saying that our directive is to spread the news, not use violence to forcibly convert people.  Look at what quote I was specifically replying to when I said that.  And yes, you're wholly entitled to your opinions (informed or otherwise), and if you choose not to believe there's a God, no matter what facts/opinions/reasoning you base it on, it's your decision.  I think I already said that.


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ghostrider9876 wrote: I can

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 

I can take a joke.  In retrospect I should've separated those two sentiments, as the "Read and understand" comment was about some entirely different earlier posts.  I'm aware the sex euphemism joke was exactly that--a joke.  It didn't upset me, I just felt it wasn't very funny.  You know, like some of those sketches on SNL or MadTV that are *supposed* to be funny, but end up demonstrating how painful it is to watch comedic performers stretch for a laugh that just...isn't...there.

 

For the love of all that is unholy, yes, I understand you didn't think it was funny.

Personally, I thought it was hilarious.

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


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Yes, I think we all get that

Yes, I think we all get that he didn't think it was funny. I found it funny though. Let's keep talking about the funniness of this joke.


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ghostrider9876 wrote: What

ghostrider9876 wrote:

 

What I'm wondering about is why, exactly, you feel the need to "fix" those of us who believe in...

 

 

Maybe this is a more specific reflection of what i was getting at - have a look in this statement's mirror.

For too long missionaries and evangelists have sort to demolish belief systems that did not conform to their own.

To 'fix' those of us who believe in...(accepting what can actually be proven).

I have a bit of trouble with this comment, too.

"My belief system encourages things like humane treatment of your fellow man, honesty, loyalty, marital fidelity, and leaving anger out of decision-making."

And my problem is that it suggests other belief systems do not or cannot embrace such values.

I have a serious difficulty with religions who steal my best parts and tell me they do not belong to me when I know with complete certainty that they do.

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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ghostrider9876 wrote:By the

ghostrider9876 wrote:

By the way, those are cute dogs you have there.  Anybody who can get a dog to love them can't be too bad of a person, I always say...

They were cute, that was about 2 years ago the day i bought them at 12 weeks old.  Rufus and Oakley are 1/2 Italian mastiff  1/2 pitbull and are over 110lbs of solid muscle, full of testosterone,  and have giant wringly heads with hangy drooly lips.  They are still cute to me, but I doubt anyone else would agree covered in drool passing putrid gas about every 3-4 minutes.  My boys!!!