I'm new here. Read this and see if you agree. If you don't please explain why.
Posted on: October 10, 2008 - 12:25pm
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I'm new here. Read this and see if you agree. If you don't please explain why.
Usually I like to keep Politics and Religion out of most conversations. I have a military like stance, don't ask don't tell. I know I am not going to change anyone’s mind, even though I would like to, so talking about it or arguing about it is pointless. However, in light of the current campaigns and the magnitude of this election I would like to put my two cents in. After watching the Vice Presidential Debates I hope it has become appallingly clear that Sarah Palin has absolutely no clue what she is talking about. She has, so far, been unable to answer a question directly regardless of the interview or forum. She skates around the issue and regurgitates what she thinks her contingents want to hear. Joe Biden answered every question directly and concisely. The clear winner of that debate was Biden. Regardless of your opinion on the issues that were discussed Biden won that debate.I am a recovering Republican, not really though, my parents were Republicans but that was because they were well off and liked the tax breaks. They understood Reaganomics and were in a tax bracket that voting Republican would benefit them. Yes, they are conservative on most issues but not the ones you might think or for the reasons you might think. I would call them fiscally Republican and socially Democrat. I was a Republican because they were. This brings me to my next point. If you are a Republican because of your religion then you are not thinking critically. Unless your church pays taxes (NONE of them do) then they should NOT be preaching politics. If you are voting the Republican ticket because someone else told you to or tried to sway you, you are not thinking critically. Try thinking for yourself, if you really do, then a light should come on in your head. Ask yourself this question. Am I voting on issues that I know are right, or that have been sold to me by someone else? Examples would be friends, family members, pastors, priests, deacons, rabbis, peer group members. etc. etc. I am going to list some keys political points and then show that critical thinkers should vote using their brains, not their “hearts”.
- National Security: John McCain (JMc) would be a worse threat to national security than Barack Obama (BO). BO has huge international support, when he gets elected BO will reflect that Americans are fed up with the current government and we are indeed ready for change. Both in foreign policy and domestic policy, the world would view us as a different country than we have been for the last 8 years. JMc would be viewed as an extension of George W. Bush. Therefore, our foreign policy would not really change, our enemies would still hate us and we would be more vulnerable to attack. Both here and abroad.
- Gay Rights: Are you are married? Do you plan on getting married? How would you feel if the government told you that you could not marry the person you love? Gay people are just that. They are People. They are not to be “tolerated” like Palin implied, they are to be treated with the same respect every person deserves. You as an American have the right to marry or do pretty much anything you want, as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody else. Gay marriages don’t hurt anybody. They are not “abominations”; they are people that are just different than you. It is not a choice or a lifestyle. They are born that way.
- Roe v. Wade: This is a touchy one but if you think critically you will understand my point. Mind your own FUCKING business.
- Global Warming: We do not need to start off-shore drilling, this is a band aid. Yes, it will decrease dependence on foreign oil but it will help perpetuate the carbon emission problem. BO is right on the money, we need to focus on new energy resources. This will create new jobs and clean up the air. If we set the example the rest of the world will follow. We could actually make a new export! Imagine, having a real export besides grain. Now we would become players in the global economy again instead of just being consumers.
- Taxes: If you make over $250,000.00 a year BO’s tax plan might hurt you a little in the pocket book. It is fact that the top income earners pay most of the taxes in the U.S. Even if you DO make more the $250K (I think I know ONE family right now that does) a year this would not be a reason to vote Republican. If you do make $250K or more then good for you, you can afford to pay higher taxes. You can also do your part in helping your country pull out of Iraq and giving health care to millions of Americans who don’t have it. If you are like me and most are, then BO’s new tax plan will help you.
- The War: Haven’t enough people died over there? We need to get our troops home now. I have had friends and neighbors that have been on multiple tours. They are tired and have served their country well. They don’t need to go back. Having a full scale withdrawal would help international affairs not hinder them. The only thing that I agree with G. W. Bush on is “Mission Accomplished”. If you define ‘winning’ the war, over throwing the old régime and installing a democracy winning the war. Then we have won, and we need to get out. If you define it as occupying a foreign country and securing the region to control the flow and price of oil, then no, we haven’t won and we never will. We still need to get out of that country before the rest of the world joins the Taliban.
Heathensrule!
I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit!
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The BO campaign would admit no such thing. They won't because BO does have foreign policy experience. I would agree BO has not been "as exposed" as JM, if by exposure you only mean measured by his service while active in the military.
Funny how you left one important fact out of what you stated here. Yes he publicly said he was against the war in Iraq.... then he VOTED AGAINST IT. Once that particular vote was lost and the war was forced upon us....then and only then did he agree to fund the troops. Is the rest of your knowledge this faulty? I could be more understanding if you'd just admit to your Fox news addiction.
BO's views don't contradict in this case. But...what's next. Are you going to trot out the old "flip-flopper" stand-by? A person, any person, who after much rational and logical thought decides to change their mind on an issue is NOT acting like a flip-flopper. Only those who are rabidly entrenched in the right-wing and those who can do no better than to tow the trunk party line would believe that such a change can be called flip-flopping.
Just as christ believers blindly follow the "teachings" without question, so the Republican believers follow, often blindly, the "party" without question. Oh a few may have questions.... they just know there is punishment or scorn if they speak out. BTW, please don't confuse with an idea that a few people in your church asking you for clarification on scripture is somehow equivalent to questioning the bible. To use your own phraseology: Thou shalt not shift the goalposts.
There are very few companies who move because of "environmental issues". The bulk of the companies move because the rich want to get richer. It's predominantly a labor issue. It's just that simple. And I'm not gonna look up all the studies and evidence for you. You can do that yourself but I suspect you don't want to know. It's obvious to me now that the truth wouldn't change your mind anyway.
Yes, there are some rich Democrats to be sure. But I never stated that the Republicans were the only rich people, now did I ? If you don't recall what I wrote previously, then go back and read it again.
Here's another tidbit of information for you. Sometimes people change their political party affiliation. Did you know that ? Guess which party shows significant number gains when poor or middle income people, either suddenly or over years, accumulate great wealth. If you answered the Republican party, you are correct.
Which posts??? Provide information and I'll read and get back to you.
Again, which posts? But beyond that, you confuse and cloud the actual comparison quite well. Were you also good at dodgeball in grade school?
Christianity is a belief system. This means a person can believe if they want to. It is their choice. (Although usually, at too young an age, children are inundated with holy scripture and led to believe before they have the rational capacity to choose to believe)
Homosexuality doesn't work that way. I'm not a homosexual myself but all the studies I have read state one thing quite clearly. It isn't a choice. Think you would find that most people agree with me on this as well.
Nope. There's very little argument amongst scientists. Global climate change is real and a good portion of the "contribution" is coming from man.
And if you really heard such a thing from any scientist, what did you think "impending" meant ?
Wow, this should have been perfectly clear without you having to figure out what I was referring to with my question. After all, my question to you on global warming was positioned right after I placed your quote, your paragraph on global warming. You may be a minister but you cannot be this dense, can you?
So, you seem to accept the science of mankind's global war/ nuclear winter but deny the science of general global warming due in great part to mankinds ever increasing consumption effects. They have counseling for this you know.
I remember reading an article or a forum topic here on this site that deals with this very widespread myth. It was about the labeling of hospitals versus how the hospitals are actually funded, overwhelmingly through tax payer money and almost never through any of these churches alone. I can't remember who wrote it, and I could find it when I tried searching. Anyone remember the article?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
For about 5 minutes I considered responding to Revlyles posts....but there's really no point. He says nothing of value and proves his bias with every other word. It's the same old, same old, very old.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I certainly did not believe that I would come here and be applauded, so believe me, your insults are nothing new.
I can also go out and copy/paste quotes of notable men and women to adhere to Christianity. What is your point? The analogy of me being a pig - Just curious - did you come down on that guy for that analogy or is it only when those who do not believe are called swine that offends you??? I thought we need to respect each other as human beings and we need to tolerate each other. Again, you guys love to preach it - but you are slow to act on it.
Great you have copy/pasted a definition. I stand behind what I said. I have not given you a subjective definition. I stated that to lust is to turn a person into an object. That is true. Obviously we are talking about sexual lust. When you or I look at a girl and lust - here is what we are doing in actuality.
To use your copied def. we have an overwhelming desire for her in order to satisfy our sexual desire. We do not care about here as a person. We do not care how old she is, what her dreams and aspirations are in life. What is her past and is she stable emotionally or even if she is too high or drunk to know what she is doing. She is simply an object to satisfy our desire because we have an overwhelming craving for sex. People who look at pornography do not know if the girl was high during the photo shoot and they certainly do not care if she was dead the next day. She was just an object to satisfy a desire and they will choose another object the next day. I was not incorrect in my def. You just did not follow the logic.
You are exactly correct about restraining from lusting. I refuse to take the second look. I refused to look at women below their neck. I refuse to allow my mind to wander to the "what could be." I have a person who monitors my internet usage so that if I follow the temptation to go to site where lust can occur - they will confront me on the issue.
That is how one might be tempted - but not fall into the sin of lust.
You claim that I simply practice self-denial. For the person who wants to be healthy and not obese, are they also practicing self-denial when they do not eat food that is not good for them. In reality, they are using empirical data to adjust their life to be healthier. The same is true for Christians who practice abstaining from sex. The empirical data for health concerning sex lines up with the plan for sex as put forth in the Bible.
Go to any website that has statistics concerning STDs. The statistics on teenagers is that 1 in 4 teenage girls have one of the top 4 STDs. So every guy out there is taking a chance when he has sex outside the confines of marriage. So if you have a son or daughter, are you teaching them self-denial or are you as a loving parent teaching them about responsibility, consequences for their actions, and safety. I am teaching my kids what the Bible says about sex and then I am letting the empirical data support what scripture states. Let me give you just a couple of stats.
Centers for Disease Control
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
I am now married. Neither my wife nor I had to talk about past partners. Neither she nor I had to be screened to make sure she nor I were infected with something. Neither she nor I worry about ever getting a STD because we only have sex within the confines of marriage. Believe me, there is no self-denial when one lives a healthier life and then having one's desires satisfied the way the Bible states is right.
Your view of the cross being worshipped: I am a Christian and you are not based upon what you have written concerning your beliefs. I know what I worship. I know that the cross is a symbol, plain and simple. Christians do not worship the cross, we worship the one who was hung upon it. This part of the discussion is almost as stupid as your rubber and I'm glue. The very verse that is quoted and is my tag line talks about faith in Christ - not a cross. Your outside observation concerning the cross and your uninformed opinion does not make it correct. If you attended a church where the cross was worshipped - it simply was not a Christian church no matter what was printed on the sign.
I have been a member of this website for over a year - and I have yet to see logic that has moved me from my faith. I have argued my points and at times atheists have admitted their are wrong based upon data that has been presented to them. I have been told that I am to prove that God exist and yet it is not incumbent upon you to prove that he does not exist. Neither is possible. I have heard many say, "prove that God exist and I will believe." Prove that he does not exist and I will renounce my faith. So while neither is going to happen in this lifetime - let us discuss truth - and let's see where the Bible stands.
I do not go into areas that I am not learned, but when it comes to moral behavior and ethics - that is an area that I have studied and I am ready to debate.
Your last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. I am not high or drunk on God. I am sitting in front of my computer not experiencing any euphoria. Again, it is your opinion based upon your disagreement with what I believe - so your only alternative is to say I am delusional or drunk. It simply shows your lack of ability to have an intelligent discussion. Call me names and dismiss me is your only recourse.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
BO did not vote against the war. We went to war in 2003. BO was not even sworn into the senate until 2005. Another lie by BO.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Wrong you are again! WOW.
Barack Obama was an Illinois senator from 1997-2004. At the time when the United States began the war on Iraq, the Illinois legislature brought forth a bill to the floor outlining several things, amongst them, what amounted to an approval of the declared war. Barack voted AGAINST THE WAR, period.
And again, once the war, Bush's war, was forced upon us, Barack voted in full support of funding for the troops.
So, unless you have some other faulty history you'd like to share.....
Thank you for providing my wife and I a great laugh at lunch time. Are you nuts? Who cares what he did as an Illinois senator. He, nor the entire state senate had any power to effect any change. Oh man. Obama swings like a pro when he is on deck - but when his butt is on the line and his vote could actually count - he strikes out every time. You just proved my argument - he does not walk the walk.
What is so funny about your post - Is that you actually believe that OB voted against the war because he voted against a bill that approved the war in a state senate. What a joke.
Maybe you can find a city council that voted against the war now. HA HA Why not look for a PTA group as well.
He never voted against the war - he simply voted that he did not approve of it.
Again - thanks for the laugh
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Did I read this right? You were just proven conclusively wrong. (By the way, I looked it up. You could look it up too, if you wanted. It's on the interwebs.) Your response to being conclusively wrong is to say that the very point you were making was irrelevant? What a crock of shit!
YOU: Barack did not vote against the war.
US: Barack most certainly did vote against the war. Here's the proof.
YOU: What a stupid thing to say! It doesn't matter if he voted against the war!
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
The projection and massive irony of this statement, coming from you, it hurts...
You also might want to look at some of the stats you provided - as per the difference between the backwards states that use abstinence-only education and the states with at least some sense that teach realistically. Also between the US and Western European countries that are shocked by American puritanical views of sex.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
No doubt you are not alone. I am glad you can still laugh, it's really healthy to do so. Ya know though, you really shouldn't laugh while you eat. You might choke that way.
I suppose I could go your route and say that we shouldn't care about things McCain may or may not have done prior to reaching the U.S. Senate.... but I don't think that is a good idea with ANY candidate.
That is not the point we were discussing. The topic was regarding Obama's position to the war. You had previously stated that Obama vocally expressed an opposition to the Iraq war and then voted to fund the war. You stated this was contradictory. I later corrected you by stating that Obama did indeed vote against the war, but that once that 'battle was lost', he agreed the troops should have funding. No contradiction. Has nothing to do with where he was when he voted.
I don't know about your quaint baseball analogy. But somehow I doubt it's "every time". So you'll understand me I'll use that 'language' now just for you. Before you come out of the dugout turn your lights back on so you can actually find the field of play. Thanks ever so much.
To use now the "language" of one of my favorite movie characters....
Delusional completely, you are. Fear in you much, I sense. Walk, you speak of? Walk in giant circles, you do.
Wrong again. His vote of disapproval WAS a vote against the war and the overall bill. It may have been a vote that really didn't matter much to the U.S. Senate or government, but it was a vote against, in any case.
Oh, btw... feel free to respond to the rest of my post which you've ignored. Just as a reminder, it's POST # 51. Who knows, if I have the time, I might even bother to reply back in return someday.
I have been waiting to respond to you. I think everyone here is doing great job and I would only be repeating some of the things they said. Reading your posts makes me really glad I am not a Christian and was never brought up a Christian. Your tone is really ugly. So self righteous, so superior. When you speak of tolerance it really makes me sick.
"Prove that he does not exist and I will renounce my faith." You are just a poser.
You're a sucker for not experiencing all of "Gods" other fruits. You should pray that you get divorced so you might be able to go get some strange. I would be really bummed if I only got to have ONE sexual partner my whole life. You may admire this but I really think you are a fool. You have not lived life due to your self inflicted dogma. You are truly the sucker.
"Truth" my ass...... Believing bullshit does not make it true.
If the Bible is "truth" this weekend you have to go stone everyone you see working on the Sabbath.
I have resisted replying to your inane posts because it won't change you or anything. You are not going to change our minds or 'save us' either. Please go somewhere else and preach your lop sided hate and bigotry/intolerance.
Heathensrule!
Heathensrule!
I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit!
Really awesome post Heathensrule, I couldn't have put any of it better myself!
As for believing what the majority believes... If everyone said that up was down, would it make it true? No. If everyone said that if you wished really hard that your amputated leg would grow back would it happen? No. Why is it any different when it comes to adult versions of imaginary friends? Oh wait, they just never grew out of it and faced something called REALITY.
What is incredible about what you said, is that it is completely opposite of reality. I am not righteous and I am not superior. I am a sinner. As the Apostle Paul wrote - There is nothing good in me, in regard to my flesh. If you think telling me that I am nothing bothers me – you are mistaken. I know that I am just a man, someone who messes up all the time. There is nothing righteous or good about me. The righteousness which makes you so sick to your stomach is the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
You guys cannot stand to hear about sin. You cannot stand to hear that something is true and therefore anything which opposes that truth is false. That is the reason you have a homosexual that, for the most part, can only call me names. They do not want to hear that their lifestyle is not right. It would mean they would have to change. The Bible is clear that “the gospel is the stench of death to those who are perishing." So of course you do not want to hear what God’s Word says. It is repugnant to you.
Think about what has been said about abortion. No one here can argue that in order to avoid an STD and unwanted pregnancies – the only 100%, foolproof way to accomplish that is simply NOT to have sex outside of marriage. That is a fact no matter what you think or believe. That is truth, and you are correct – it doesn’t matter if you believe it or not. BUT INSTEAD of teaching that AND acknowledging that is what the Bible says, what you suggest is tell people – “Do what you want to do and we will create ways of dealing with the consequences.” You call people, like myself, who have chosen the responsible action and the 100% preventable way to avoid all the hurt, (broken hearts and broken promises) physical pain (abortions and STD’s) self-righteous and delusional. If self-denial prevents others pain - then I will deny self. My pleasure is not more important than their life, both physically and emotionally.
You certainly do not want THE ONE who is superior to you, God, to tell you that your beliefs are wrong because in order to acknowledge that truth, you would have to repent – which means change your mind. You would have to change your mind about your superiority. You can’t stand that there is a higher power that is greater than you and it is God that has established right from wrong and truth from lie. If I believe something is true, but it contradicts what God has said is true, then I believe a lie. SO, I may want to tell a homosexual – your lifestyle is OK, but God’s Word states that homosexuality is wrong and therefore, I must change to be in line with truth. The problem you have is that you are your own god. You believe that one ought to experience sex however and whenever you want and yet TRUTH is that when your way is practiced – it leads to consequences that no one wants.
I realize that I am a sinner and I recognize the need for a savior. You look at what you wrote. You think that I should want a divorce. According to what you wrote, I should think of what I want and do it regardless of the pain and hurt it will bring to others. I have seen the pain that divorce has caused wives and husbands. I have seen the kids who wonder why their mom and dad are not together. I have seen the anger and broken hearts. You think that I should pray for this pain and that I should want this for my wife and children. What is wrong with you???? You call me self-righteous and yet your suggestion is one of the most selfish things I have ever seen. I should go out and experience what you call fun and don’t worry about the pain it would bring to others, yet you believe that I preach hate. You might want to rethink that one.
Again, the Bible is very clear on this issue. Sin is fun . . . for a season. I had friends who loved to get drunk. It was fun, but now they are alcoholics and they waist their money and lives on alcohol. I had friends, who loved to sleep around, but now they are either stuck with an STD, or supporting a kid they did not want, or they are simply broken hearted. I know people who have lied their whole life to get ahead, and now no one trust them and they have no true friends. I could do this all day. You suggest that I go out and live the “fun” life. No thank you. I have seen the consequences which come after the season is over.
If the Bible is true this weekend I have to go stone everyone working on the Sabbath???? Please point out where Jesus Christ said or did this. What a complete lack of understanding and a complete distortion of Scripture. I have been asked to give references and statistics. Please point me to 1 reputable evangelical Bible scholar who has written or believes this. If there is some nut case that has twisted scripture to say this - I will produce 100's who will quickly and easily refute it with scripture, including myself.
As far as sending me somewhere else – who are you to tell me that I should leave. I thought this was an open forum. If you want to go where only atheist can post – there is a place for that. I have broken no rules. By the way, you asked for opinions that differed from yours. Perhaps your thoughts of everyone agreeing with you were dashed upon the rocks – so now you simply want the voice of opposition to go away. No wonder you support BO.
I have told the Good News of Jesus Christ to people much more hard hearted than you, and they have gotten saved. I just continue to pray for you guys. God is in the miracle business and he DOES change people’s hearts and minds.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
We don't care what the BuyBull says - far as we're concerned you can take that ridiculous book of horrific fairy tales and shove it up your ass. Deal with the fact the Christian god does not exist, Jesus probably never did either and the natural world is almost certainly all that exists.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
According to AVERT.org when looking at the statistics - Western Europe had a greater increase of STDs in every catagory except for gonorrhea.
As far as the states go. Both southern and Northern states were listed in top 10 in new reports of STDs. I don't know all of their teaching methods. . .
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
We don't care what the BuyBull says - far as we're concerned you can take that ridiculous book of horrific fairy tales and shove it up your ass. Deal with the fact the Christian god does not exist, Jesus probably never did either and the natural world is almost certainly all that exists.
That is probably why you call yourself an atheist.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Actually it's because I'm rational enough to see there is no evidence for any religin being true, and plenty of evidence for them being untrue. I would consider the Buybull signifigantly less useful than MAD magazine.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Ahem! We seem to have fettered out the real REVLyle. Below, folks, is an excerpt from a delusional mind.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Everything you regurgitate from the Bible carries no weight with me so stop. I don't believe in sin and if you want to go around thinking that everybody on the planet is wicked and a "sinner" then it is your life you are losing. I am a good decent person, I treat others as I want to be treated. I am not "hard hearted" so I resent you implying that, you don't know me. Continue to pray for me if you want but prayer is a complete waste of time.
"Exo 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death"
Ask and you shall receive!
As far as all of friends getting STD's have they ever heard of condoms?
I don't drink or do drugs.
I am married, to a woman, and I think gay people should have equal rights including marriage.
You may not directly preach hate but if you preach marriage is only between a man and a woman then you do. Your adherents will not be tolerant of anybody that doesn't think like they do. You should see all the Vote Yes on Prop 8 signs in my neighborhood. I am embarrassed to live here.
You said that you would renounce your faith if anyone could prove god does not exist. Get ready to burn your Bible! If God is everything or else he is nothing and you live by the Bible from start to finish. If you believe that Genesis is true and the word of god, then here is your proof that the god of the Bible is not there.
Tonight, if it is clear and you live in a rural area, if you don't then you will need a telescope. Go look to the NNE at approximately 75 degrees at around 9pm you will find the Andromeda Galaxy. This Galaxy is around 2.5 million light years away. This means that the light you are seeing took 2.5 MILLION years to get to earth. This makes the story in Genesis complete bullshit, hence, everything that comes after is bullshit too. This can not be argued. This is unequivocal proof.
Rev, I did ask for rebuttals to my original post. I respected some of your claims. I was not pleased with your subsequent posts however. Most of your comments are biased and pious. The reason I suggested going somewhere else was that it seams like you could be using your time more wisely. I am an Atheist. Not an Onthefence. Your dogmas mean nothing to me. I will not be saved, I will not believe the ridiculous and the mere suggestion that I need to be "saved" pisses me off. It is very offensive and with out using vile language, please never suggest to me again that you will pray for me or that I need to be "saved". It is condescending and you might not think of it this way but you are placing yourself higher or more mighty or righteous than me. You nor anybody is higher or more mighty than me, we are equal as humans. If I believed in god I might say that it is more mighty than me. Certainly there are powers greater than myself, (gravity, the ocean, the universe, the sun etc, etc, ..... ad infinitum) you are a Human. Humans are just animals. Apes with ego trips.
I'm done.
Heathensrule!
Heathensrule!
I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit!
"Righteousness" does not make me sick to my stomach. The suffering that religion directly causes by replacing the discussion and analysis of right and wrong with the notion of "sin" does however.
No, I don't. You don't know me. You haven't had to make the choices I have had to make. You have no idea whether or not my lifestyle is right. The arrogance that christians display when assuming they do know does make me angry. Focus on your own life.
True. I'm just not into genocide, rape, and the subjugation of women. They leave a bad taste in my mouth. The bible is a horrible book that I absolutely will not allow my child to read until he is much older due to all the horrors contained within its pages.
That's part of the fun of religion isn't it? You can make your beliefs into whatever you want, just pull the right scriptures from a dusty old book to do so.
Get over yourself. You are not as special as you think you are. No god hears and cares about your thoughts. No god is following your every move and looking into your heart. You do not have some eternal truth about life because you believe in god. You are just another human being sharing this planet with many other human beings. To think otherwise is to be delusional.
"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.
Yeah anniet
1) While not a McCain follower, I can't really see how he as president would make us "more vulnerable to attack". If he, as you say, is just an extension of W, then how exactly would we be more vulnerable? How many times have we been attacked since 9/11? Countries probably perceive McCain as ready to fight and they probably perceive BO as ready to negotiate.
2) I don't really care if gay people get married. However, using your reasoning that they are just different and want to be happy can also be applied to members of NAMBLA and to Warren Jeff's followers. There are plenty of real efforts to lower the age of consent and to legalize polygamy. Where do we draw the line? Can we or should we ever draw the line? Seem like we may be opening Pandora's box.
3) If we follow your colorful advice to mind our own business, how can we justify charging and jailing these people who kill their newborns? Again, there is an effort out there which is advocating delaying calling a baby alive until 3 days after birth just in case the parents want to change their mind. Kinda reminds me of BO not voting to protect babies who survive botched abortions.
4) Hey, I heard that Mars is experiencing global warming (www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece). Must be that darn George Bush and his monster truck!
5) Totally disagree with you on the tax deal. I have a friend who is a dentist and he has a very busy office. So busy, that I have often asked him why he didn't bring on another dentist and expand. Well, he said that if he were to do that then he would get bumped up to another tax bracket and after it was all said and done, he would actually net less money than now. Currently he employs 5 people who he pays between $15 and $20 per hour. If he had an incentive to grow his business, he would likely double his staff and bring on another dentist who would earn around $75,000. Higher taxes discourage growth which results in less hiring and possible layoffs. Also, it's not the government's job to coerce me into helping you out just because I can afford it acording to you. It's up to you to help yourself out.
6) The war. I also would like to see our troops brought home. I don't want to see us leave the locals over there hanging though.
First of all this is what I stated in post #37 concerning BO.
I could at least respect the guy if he did what said, but his actions and his views seem to contradict one another.
I stand behind that statement. BO was in a state senate and he did not vote against the war - he voted that he did not approve the war.
Let me let you read the words of BO himself.
I would have voted (emphasis mine) not to authorize the president to go to war given the facts as I saw them at that time. But, as I said, I wasn't there (emphasis mine) and what is absolutely clear as we move forward is that if we don't have a change in tone & a change in administration, I think we're going to have trouble making sure that our troops are secure and that we succeed in Iraq.
So I guess BO was proven conclusively wrong??????
There is no dbout that BO was not for the war - but he did not vote against the war, because he was not in the senate. Again what I stated in post #58:
Obama swings like a pro when he is on deck - but when his butt is on the line and his vote could actually count - he strikes out every time. You just proved my argument - he does not walk the walk.
So we have established that he was against the war. He voted that he did not approve the war when it was meaningless, and then in 2005 - Bo gets in the senate and not one single time has he voted against funding the war. He can say it was to support the troops because he knew that if he voted against funding the troops the GOP would have put that in every add, but at least he would have stood by his convictions. He does not walk the walk. He caves when his vote could have really counted.
Come on Hambydammit. Let's get all the facts straight. Call up BO and argue with him now.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Thomathy - I could not remember your screen name before - that is all.
I have no doubt that your worldview is completely different than mine. Heck - almost everyone at this website has a different worldview than me. Where you are very mistaken is that you and others here feel that I believe that I am superior. As I explained before. I struggle with sin everyday. I have no other way to state it than this. The sin I struggle with everyday is not the sin you struggle with.
The Bible states that everyone is dead in their sin. There is no such thing as one being deader than the next. Again you don't believe this - but the reason I write this is that I do not look at other people and wonder why they sin - I know I am right there with them - it simply is other types of sin. So the idea that I look down my nose at you is ridiculous.
You and everyone here says that there is no such thing as sin. Maybe you guys have another word that you use when someone murders, lies, cheats, slanders, gossips, etc. . . Those are bad things that people do to other people. Those are things that are imperfect in this world. The word sin - is simply an archery term that means to miss the mark. So when people do not live as God says to live - they miss the mark. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not - these sins happen in real life - what do you call them? I guess what you call human nature, Christians call sinful nature. Humans will satisfy their wants and desires and if that means hurting others, through sin - they will. Even if you and I say - we are good people, we have participated in these sins.
I do not have the time to give a dissertation on the consequences of homosexuality. For one, it is the breakdown of the family. God (you would say nature) designed man and woman to come together to procreate and both the man and woman serve distinct roles in the family (I am not talking about a working dad and stay at home mom - my wife works). Studies have shown many effects, but if I cite them you will simply say that the journal or website has an anti-gay agenda. Even the website I cited you earlier stated that there is no consensus when it comes to WHY people are homosexual and you simply dismissed it. It was not a Christian website and RRS even has links to it. BUT when talking about the consequences of sin, can you tell me the consequences of a simple lie. You cannot. They are more than we can conceive, even when we think they may be little lies.
You wanted a quote concerning what I should do in my marriage - here you go from post #63:
You're a sucker for not experiencing all of "Gods" other fruits. You should pray that you get divorced so you might be able to go get some strange. I would be really bummed if I only got to have ONE sexual partner my whole life. You may admire this but I really think you are a fool. You have not lived life due to your self inflicted dogma. You are truly the sucker.
Yes, I believe that people have pregnancies that they did not want or expect in marriage - but my point when dealing with teenagers is that teenagers are not ready emotionally nor financially when it comes to having a baby and we are not being honest when we do not present the only way to 100% avoid those problems is not to have sex. Instead we play to the lowest common denominator - They are going to have sex so lets give them a condom and tell them it is safe sex when the reality is . . . it is safer - but it is not safe. Do we really believe that teenagers are going to use them? I was asked to give stats concerning Europe and the US since Europe is so "advanced" in their view of sexuality. It didn't turn our the way Mattshizzle wanted so once again - the stats are dismissed.
I never said that everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic. I wrote: I had friends who loved to get drunk. It was fun, but now they are alcoholics and they waist their money and lives on alcohol. This is a true statement. Another example is that I had a friend who was an alcoholic and he got drunk and killed himself with a handgun. That is certainly a consequence of alcohol abuse which is also spoken against in the Bible.
Surely you are not suggesting that when people sleep around there are not hurt feelings, STD's, or unwanted children. You are asking if anyone has ever slipped through the cracks - I don't believe so, but I cannot prove it. Do I have to give you the numbers of abortions (unwanted pregnancies) over just the past year. You won't believe them, but here it goes.
1.37 million a year in US and 42 million a year worldwide, 3,700 a day (one every 39 seconds) in the US and 73.8% to un-wed mothers in the US. - the highest rate is among teenage girls to 25 year old women. But we are too busy telling them not to deny self - just have safe sex. It doesn't seem to be too safe. The stats are simply heart breaking. There are no stats for broken hearts as ladies hear men say whatever they have to say in order to have sex. And the stats on STD's are not good either. The point is that the price for "sleeping around" is simply staggering.
You wrote: No one said you had to go have 'fun'. It's okay to disagree. Don't get worked up over it.
I stated that it was suggested that I pray for a divorce. Again I refer to the above quote.
I know you will most likely disagree with 99% of what I have written. I have not written hate. I simply do not agree with you. I have given you the "whys" of what I believe. I have no ill will toward homosexuals. I have no ill will toward people, even those who disagree with me. As I stated before, I do not agree that homosexuals should be able to get married - that, I believe, is for a man and woman. I do not answer to you and you do not answer to me. I will so say no more on that issue since you believe that I am breaking the rules.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Personally I see nothing wrong with anyone having sex with anyone they want as long as it is consensual (and that includes both participants being of proper age. ) I personally WOULD rather be in a committed relationship because meaningless sex is pretty much just empty - what's the point without love. I don't see the need for marriage even though I do want to someday be married. Definitely don't want kids though. However, I have no problem with someone who does want to just sleep around as long as they don't take advantage of those who don't. Before you try to say we atheists are just immoral, I had a married woman at work who was very attractive wanted sex from me and I wouldn't - she even punched me for not doing so. I consider the Buybull to be utterly ridiculous and am certain the Christian god does not exist. I see nothing wrong with allowing gay marriage whatsoever. The Christarded god is also against many other things that it would be stupid to be against - such as wearing 2 different fabrics at once.
There's nothing wrong with divorce. If a couple loves each other and everything is relatively good, of course it would be stupid to get divorced. But why stay together if they no longer do love each other? Especially in a really bad situation such as abuse.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
You wrote: No one said you had to go have 'fun'. It's okay to disagree. Don't get worked up over it.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
We are the rules, we are GOD, each of us, equally part of the whole. Unfortunatley most are "blind" to knowing this first law.
Atheism Books.
You asked that I explain what "sin" is again. Before I write anything - I am aware that you do not believe in God. I am writing explaining my worldview when it comes to sin therefore; it does require that I mention God.
Sin does come from an archery term. It was used to describe the distance from the bulls eye to the point where the arrow actually hit. This distance was called the "sin-mark."
The Greek word is hamartano which means:
1) to be without a share in
2) to miss the mark
3) to err, be mistaken
4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
You will notice that "to wander from the law of God" is last. The term sin-mark predates Christianity.
So how does a Christian view sin????? God is perfect - man is not. When we sin - we miss the mark of perfection. If you are like me, you have often heard, "I'm not perfect." The reality is that this is a very true statement. When God says to us: Do not lie, steal, murder, covet . . . And then we do those things - all of us have - we are missing the mark of perfection - we have sinned.
So, when atheists say they do not believe in sin - what they are saying (I believe) is that since there is no standard set by God (perfection) then how could they have missed the mark and/or sinned.
What I see here is relativism. For instance: Mattshizzle wrote that he believes that any one should be able to have sex with anyone EXCEPT they must be of proper age and they should not take advantage of others who do not want to sleep around. So in his mind, to have sex with a young girl (what age would this be?????) or to be a "player" is wrong. (Mattshizzle can correct me if I am misrepresenting him) So some people think that sex with a 10 year old is OK while others think she should be at least 13, or 16, or even 18. The point is that this is all subjective. Who is right? Who is wrong? AND, if the answer is no one then you have total chaos. One might say, "What is right is simply what the majority comes to a consensus on." Well, then that is might makes right. One might say, "What is right is what benefits society." Well, if that is true then why do we have societies that do not agree on issues. We are right back to relativism.
If I drew two lines and declared, "this is 1 yard, between these two lines" you could then take a yard stick, the standard, and measure if the lines were indeed 1 yard or if they missed the mark. You and I do not get to define 1 yard based upon our views, customs, lineage, feelings . . . The same is true for morality. God has set the standard. Christians do not see it as subjective.
So, since I have missed the mark, I am a sinner. You have written that you do not believe that sin exists. So when a person lies to you. When someone cheats you out of money. When someone slanders you, etc. . . are they wrong? IF THEY ARE WRONG - by what standard are you declaring them wrong? If it is by your idea of right and wrong, then once again it is subjective. If there is NO STANDARD and it is all subjective - then you and I, when someone does us "wrong," have no claim because their standard of right and wrong must simply be different than ours.
Lastly, why is it that when someone is lied to or cheated - their first response is, "That is not fair." In reality they are saying - "That is not right." From what standard are they basing fairness or rightness? Again, if it is subjective - that statement cannot stand.
You wrote: Oddly, in the first world, your country has the largest number of Christians, the largest number of people whose sex education consisted of 'just don't do it' and the largest number of teen pregnancies. That is odd, isn't it?
First of all, I certainly do not believe worldly stats when it comes to Christianity. Again, I am not the standard, but if you ask people, "Are you a Christian" many will respond yes without even knowing what that means. Some believe that being a Christian simply means you believe in God. The latest stat I saw said that 85% of Americans say they are Christians. There is no way that is correct.
The fact is that many states do teach abstinence (about 1/2), but they also teach about "safe" sex. I am not sure about any state that ONLY teaches abstinence. Secondly, whereas teen pregnancies are more in the US - STDS are greater in Europe. I am not sure that either statistic presents the argument that irresponsible sex is not going to happen due to teaching. Will some teenagers have sex no matter what they are taught - YES, but the facts are that we should teach the benefits of not having sex rather than simply telling them how to protect when they have sex. We should not treat the WHEN as a given. Lastly, the teen pregnancy rate began to rise in the 60's which was during the sexual revolution in the US. You know - when we were enlightened.
If you go to http://www.avert.org/stdstatisticsworldwide.htm you will see that in almost every category - Europe was higher in STDS than America. Those are the stats that were referenced to Matshizzle.
Why did I cite stories of alcoholism and consequences of sleeping around???? I was told in one post that I am simply practicing self-denial and not enjoying life. My example is that if one sees the benefit of good food and exercise for being healthy - are they practicing self-denial or are they simply choosing to be healthy. The reason that I told these stories is that one cannot look at drunkenness and sex outside as marriage as just FUN (the same is true for other sins). There really are people who pay a high price for these activities. Do all drinkers become alcoholics - no. Do all who sleep around have either a broken heart, STD, or get pregnant - we simply cannot know. I have simply looked at what scripture has had to say about these and other issues AND I have looked at the price SOME people have paid and chosen to live more healthy in regards to those things.
I believe you asked if people have slept around without getting a broken heart, STD, or unwanted pregnancy. That is what I meant by slipping through the cracks. We simply do not know.
In regards to your question about "the family." I think this falls under the idea of relativism again. I am sure you know my definition. It is father, mother, and children. Does a single parent and children make up a family when there is a divorce or death . . . sure. Of course, I am not talking about extended family at this time. If we go the way of subjectivity . . . it is defined by almost anything. You can give me your definition, but the next person has a right to disagree and his definition is just as right as yours.
My statistics on abortions is simply an indictment on sexual permissiveness. You may be able to make the claim that I cannot infer that this is due to sleeping around, but the stats certainly point in that direction. Let's look at the numbers.
The average age of marriage for women is 26 in the USA. 53.2% of all abortions in the US happen to women under 25. 73.8% of all the abortions in the US happen to single women. Surely you are not suggesting that the majority of these women are sleeping with the same man, getting pregnant over and over again, and then having abortions.
As far as breaking the rules . . . you wrote: I think this might be breaking the rules. Not that I care, but you're not supposed to proselytize.
I hope this clears up any questions that you had. and explains why I believe what I believe as far as morality. I do not think I did any proselytizing.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=127041&title=birds-of-a-feather
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
That said, our morals are, and arguably must be, relative. If you cannot think of an instance where you would condone stealing or murder, you are either lying or suffer from an extreme lack of imagination. Further, if your god endowed us with an objective moral sense, or gave us an objective moral guideline, I would expect that many of the actions carried out by people in the bible and ordered by your god would still be carried out today, but this is not the case and many of those very actions would be appalling to anyone alive today.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
This has got to get an award for the greatest example of self ownage all month. Maybe even all year. Half the people in the library around me are falling over, and we're all Canadians. Not only is Revlyle stupid enough to believe in god, he doesn't even know how his own government works while foreigners do. *Shakes head in disbelief*
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
How do all you foreigners know more about how this country works than those who live here? Any thoughts of emmigration? Less snow and ice here!
"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.
Two problems.
1: We don't actually get much more snow and ice than most of the US. Those parts that get significantly less are too damn hot.
2: There aren't enough of us to make a difference.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Well........ Let's see if America is indeed ready for change. I casted my vote.