God the Ultimate Caregiver?

latincanuck
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God the Ultimate Caregiver?

From this article, 57% surveyed adults believed that God's intervention could save a family member even if a physician declared treatment futile. Of course this is from the americans, http://www.torontosun.com/News/World/2008/08/19/6497606-sun.html, as well nearly 20% of the doctors and medical workers surveyed believed this as well. AAAAAHHHHH!! Ok look god can't help worth shit, a physician might be incorrect and god can't help, if you go and do the treatment and get well....guess what....IT WASN'T GOD, IT WAS THE TREATMENT STUPID!!!


MattShizzle
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People are stupid. Of course

People are stupid. Of course there is the idea of retaining hope even in hopeless situations to make you feel better.

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Hambydammit
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Personally, I think hope is

Personally, I think hope is overrated.  Sure, we have to have something to look forward to in life.  Even so, when something shitty happens, I can't think of any reason why it's beneficial to believe that the impossible or highly unlikely is going to happen.  A few years ago, one of my cats got hit by a car.  I rushed her to the vet, and after a couple of hours, the vet came out and told me the prognosis.  She was critically hurt, but there was a small chance that she would pull through.  It would be massively expensive, and if she did survive, she would have a significantly lowered standard of living, as well as a really long recovery time.

Naturally, I had her put down.  It was the reasonable thing to do since the reality was there was virtually no hope.  Had I held out an irrational hope that a miracle would happen, I'd have been out several thousand dollars, and had shattered hopes.  As it was, I got on with the grieving process and got another cat.

Why is it any different with people?  I'm not saying we should necessarily shoot grandpa when he gets cancer.   However, if someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness, what good does it do to spend the last months of their life hoping against hope that god will intervene?  Why not accept that they'll be leaving soon, and do everything we can to make their remaining time as meaningful as possible?  Why not start dealing with the emotional impact of their loss as soon as possible?

Like so many religious concept, I see no rational foundation for the statement that "we have to have hope."

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Brian37
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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

Personally, I think hope is overrated.  Sure, we have to have something to look forward to in life.  Even so, when something shitty happens, I can't think of any reason why it's beneficial to believe that the impossible or highly unlikely is going to happen.  A few years ago, one of my cats got hit by a car.  I rushed her to the vet, and after a couple of hours, the vet came out and told me the prognosis.  She was critically hurt, but there was a small chance that she would pull through.  It would be massively expensive, and if she did survive, she would have a significantly lowered standard of living, as well as a really long recovery time.

Naturally, I had her put down.  It was the reasonable thing to do since the reality was there was virtually no hope.  Had I held out an irrational hope that a miracle would happen, I'd have been out several thousand dollars, and had shattered hopes.  As it was, I got on with the grieving process and got another cat.

Why is it any different with people?  I'm not saying we should necessarily shoot grandpa when he gets cancer.   However, if someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness, what good does it do to spend the last months of their life hoping against hope that god will intervene?  Why not accept that they'll be leaving soon, and do everything we can to make their remaining time as meaningful as possible?  Why not start dealing with the emotional impact of their loss as soon as possible?

Like so many religious concept, I see no rational foundation for the statement that "we have to have hope."

 

YOU ARE SUCH A NEGATIVE PERSON!

Man I hate that shit when people say that. Even talking to my friends at work about other subjects. Since when is it negative to be pragmatic about a situation and accept the obvious?

A lot of positive and negative things happen in our lives but there is no man in a white robe or a devil with a pitchfork pulling our strings in either direction.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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MattShizzle
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Being realistic isn't being

Being realistic isn't being negative. Being too optimistic is not only annoying, it sets you up for disappointment.

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stillmatic
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latincanuck wrote:From this

latincanuck wrote:

From this article, 57% surveyed adults believed that God's intervention could save a family member even if a physician declared treatment futile. Of course this is from the americans, http://www.torontosun.com/News/World/2008/08/19/6497606-sun.html, as well nearly 20% of the doctors and medical workers surveyed believed this as well. AAAAAHHHHH!! Ok look god can't help worth shit, a physician might be incorrect and god can't help, if you go and do the treatment and get well....guess what....IT WASN'T GOD, IT WAS THE TREATMENT STUPID!!!

20% of doctors and medical workers? My only question is whether they believe the miracle will be delivered directly by God without their intervention, or through their hands.

If they think God is helping them do the work, that's fine. If they are just sitting on their asses and praying, then I have a problem.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


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At least it shows that 80%

At least it shows that 80% of doctors are more rational than the general public. They forgot to mention that 99% of idiots believe this.

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Brian37
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stillmatic wrote:latincanuck

stillmatic wrote:

latincanuck wrote:

From this article, 57% surveyed adults believed that God's intervention could save a family member even if a physician declared treatment futile. Of course this is from the americans, http://www.torontosun.com/News/World/2008/08/19/6497606-sun.html, as well nearly 20% of the doctors and medical workers surveyed believed this as well. AAAAAHHHHH!! Ok look god can't help worth shit, a physician might be incorrect and god can't help, if you go and do the treatment and get well....guess what....IT WASN'T GOD, IT WAS THE TREATMENT STUPID!!!

20% of doctors and medical workers? My only question is whether they believe the miracle will be delivered directly by God without their intervention, or through their hands.

If they think God is helping them do the work, that's fine. If they are just sitting on their asses and praying, then I have a problem.

The most sickening painting I saw was in a doctor's office. It was a oil painting of a surgeon operating on a person with JESUS standing behind him guiding his hands. The worst part is that this doctor operated on my mother. Screw the hocus pokus crap, his skill and not some magical being is what got her through it. His superstition had nothing to do with her ending up needing an operation do to a man with a pitchfork anymore than the success of it depended on a man in a white robe.

If anyone would ask me to chose between my mother or Jesus, fuck Jesus, I can prove that my mother is real and I don't have to pray to her.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


stillmatic
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Brian37 wrote:stillmatic

Brian37 wrote:

stillmatic wrote:

latincanuck wrote:

From this article, 57% surveyed adults believed that God's intervention could save a family member even if a physician declared treatment futile. Of course this is from the americans, http://www.torontosun.com/News/World/2008/08/19/6497606-sun.html, as well nearly 20% of the doctors and medical workers surveyed believed this as well. AAAAAHHHHH!! Ok look god can't help worth shit, a physician might be incorrect and god can't help, if you go and do the treatment and get well....guess what....IT WASN'T GOD, IT WAS THE TREATMENT STUPID!!!

20% of doctors and medical workers? My only question is whether they believe the miracle will be delivered directly by God without their intervention, or through their hands.

If they think God is helping them do the work, that's fine. If they are just sitting on their asses and praying, then I have a problem.

The most sickening painting I saw was in a doctor's office. It was a oil painting of a surgeon operating on a person with JESUS standing behind him guiding his hands. The worst part is that this doctor operated on my mother. Screw the hocus pokus crap, his skill and not some magical being is what got her through it. His superstition had nothing to do with her ending up needing an operation do to a man with a pitchfork anymore than the success of it depended on a man in a white robe.

If anyone would ask me to chose between my mother or Jesus, fuck Jesus, I can prove that my mother is real and I don't have to pray to her.

It would be worse if the painting was just Jesus healing the person and the doctor doing nothing. Doctors can deceive themselves and believe that God works miracles through their hands, but we both know the doctor is doing the only work that counts.

If they think your life is in God's hands, then you better find a doctor who's willing to actually do something.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien