I will drink to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and hope his appendages touch you in the most pleasurable of ways

Ugh! I wish Theists could graps how obscenely offensive it is to say bullshit like "[insert diety here] bless you" and such to an Atheist.  Imagine if a Luciferian strolled up to a Christian, smiled and said, "May Satan be with you and yours." The Christian would freak, right? It's the same damn thing with Atheists.

No, lady, I hope YOU see the truth before it's too late :/

She could certainly be doing something more useful on her knees!

Thank you for your concern, but it is unwarranted. If it makes you look good in your god's eyes go for it though. When I hear someone say they're praying for me, it just means they think "it must suck to be you" hahaha. I wish I could remember who in here said that.

Prayer is pointless and even if it wasn't getting god to change it's mind about sending unbelievers to hell would be pointless as well. The thought of praying for someone to change their mind about lack of god belief is typical to the lunacy of the christian mindset.  

Sequel?

^_^

Now that is without question something that belongs in a signature tag

"I just don't swing that way is all I'm sayin'"

My $0.02: Damn.  You just had to go and ruin the fantasy, didn't you?

Conor

Do whatever you want, but don't ask me to thank you.  I am a lot happier now than when I was a christian.  It's amazing the burdens that are gone once the incoherent religious rules are out of ones life. 

Oh, and Jesus and I are fine.  I had a kid with him after our last trip to Mexico so stop trying to butt in.

  Whether or not one finds such behavior offensive is perhaps based upon one's previous experience with the religious community.  For some, these experiences may have been only a brief, mild annoyance; for others the experience may have involved lifelong exposure and some degree of emotional trauma.  It's a personal issue and a one size fits all approach isn't realistic.

  I feel a deep sense of betrayal toward Christianity based upon my personal history and the effects of that betrayal still linger.  The expression "God bless you" simply reminds me of my former association with a group of people that I now despise.

  Likewise, there is also nothing inherently wrong with displaying the symbol referred to as the Star of David but I feel fairly confident that such symbols will likely evoke entirely different emotional responses from Jewish settlers living on the west bank as opposed to Palestinians who live in Israel.  It's the same principle and involves a person's frame of reference.

A 'blessing' from these people is a tacit assumption that you have the same mental problems they do.  Don't bless me, I'll take care of myself, thank you very much.  Simply smiling and tolerating this sort of foolishness isn't showing that you are the better man, it's being complicit and contributing to the problem.

Not at all.  Prejudice is attributing qualities to people without reason beyond appearance or some other unjustified quality.  Believing that people that have elected to be a part of a movement that is based on arrogance and hate are a potential problem seems only reasonable to me.

Believing 'that guy' is a problem because of his skin?  wrong.

Believing 'that guy' is a problem because he has affiliated himself with a dangerous group?  Entirely justified.

I am not equipped with the faculties to fully comprehend this statement.  There's levels and levels of everything wrong with this.  

OK, in direct response to the question, no.  That's a strange thing to ask and I don't know how it relates.  If instead the question were 'Suppose a religious person offers religious greeting to a person that believes conflicting ideas --should that person take offense to the comment?'  Then the answer would be 'how could you expect anything different.'

Let's take this one step further.  Suppose a man walking down the street was stopping young women and ensuring, politely, that they knew very well not to engage in sex before marriage and certainly never to use birth control.  Should those young ladies take offense?

What if this well meaning man were to stop people to ensure that they knew if they felt sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex (lust), or if they talked back to their parents; then they would be inflicted with torture forevermore.  

Would they be justified in taking offense then?  Because that's what people are very literally saying when they say 'God bless you.'  

Unless of course they are dirty liars.  That's even worse. 

So they have "mental problems" now, not just a misguided world view that could be corrected just by thinking through their belief system? Telling.

I can accept that. I still take issue with the assumption of negative intent, but your reasoning is valid.

I'm not the one who posed Zionism as an example to begin with. I don't see the "levels and levels of everything wrong with" a religiously framed, but positive, address. Maybe I should be explicit about the alternative: an immediately negative attitude taken toward those we have known differences with.

A positive opening is a positive opening, no matter how it is framed. If your intent is conversion (everything I read here says it is), then this is an opportunity. If your intent is positive in any way, this is an opportunity.

I flatly disagree. "Offense" taken to conflicting ideas is inappropriate. It is counter to any discourse and suggests that conflict is the appropriate solution to differences.

As well, your moralizing busybody is just a moralizing busybody. It may be an annoyance if you actually wish to correct his beliefs (which are not entirely flawed, so you have a basis for working the Socratic method on him, for example), but if you react with outrage and hysterics, that is wrong. That reaction is not only childish, it actually reinforces the behaviour!

By the way, have you ever seen Monty Python's The Meaning of Life? There's a cute illustration of the Catholic/Protestant divide over prophylactics in there, from an Atheistic (or maybe just nihilistic and irreverent) point of view.

 OK, I think part of our problem is that we are using words in different ways.

I don't believe taking offense means spitting on someone or 'freaking out'.   Taking offense is simply having your sense of propriety violated.

Let's change this just a touch..  

A man you walk past says, 'You seem a strong spirit, may you bear the blessings of Nathan Forrest.'

You better believe I would be offended.  You would too.  The difference in our argument isn't what it means to take offense, nor that it is right to take offense to offensive things.

Our difference is that I believe abrahamic religions are every bit as hateful and dangerous as the KKK.  You seem to take the members at their word that there religion is that of 'love and peace'.  An assertion that is clearly refuted by their organizations own actions.

The former nazi that is leading the catholics personally wrote a memo urging the american church to hide the pedophilia until the statutes of limitations ran out.  And to this day the worst offenders are still protected by that  august establishment.

Judaism takes many forms, the most clearly harmful shields its youth from proper education, resulting in a perverse self-fulfilling prophecy mandating their culture a dependent client of our own.  

Islam is the religion of peace that is now reeling from calls around the globe to kill the infidels, suppress freedom of speech, oppress and mutilate women...   etc, etc...

When a person is a member of groups like these...  I do not want to be thought of as needing their aid in my life.  I will take offense at someone else assuming I am deficient enough to require the love of such a hateful god.  Although I will not spit, scream, swear...  I will simply be offended.  Most of the time that results in a curt nod of my head.

Not likely to happen, with me, but I get the idea.

Although I would not want to engage that person, because it's an even harder worldview to overturn by reason (if you're a die-hard racist where do I begin?). But I believe it would be the correct thing to do if you have the fortitude. Barring of course any real danger of getting lynched as a n*-lover (as you may equate to preaching Atheism in some Muslim countries today).

This goes back to the aforementioned "hassle" of correcting the moralizing busybody. We don't really need the sword of Damocles over our heads to just walk on by (with a curt nod).

You've pegged me exactly. Now, I may not always believe that of an individual. But, even if I'm not convinced of the "Godly Love" in the person's heart, it is the most effective way I know to engage the professed belief system. If the assumption that the person is honest in their "love and peace" does not prove out logically, perhaps at least I can finally put the mirror in front of them and reveal who they really are.

As best I can follow, you do not care whether people get converted/enlightened away from these beliefs you scorn so much, or perhaps don't believe it is possible? Do you have any other plan for upsetting the system? Or are you, perhaps, just happy to grouse about it and keep religion as a perpetual scapegoat for the ills of human society?

 You seem to be hung up on my use of the word offense.  I don't think being offended and being angry are the same thing.  I can even offer an example.

I find that offensive.  I do because it is a characterization of my beliefs that is unjustified and untrue.  This is an application of prejudice.  At no time have I ever intimated that all the ills of man are to be laid at the feet of religion, at no time have I ever said that 'upsetting the system' is even a goal of mine.  

That is also a pretty good example of how I react when offended.  Notice the suspicious lack of swearing, lashing out, spitting, or any other angry behavior.  That is because I am not angry, merely offended.

To answer your question, no.  I am not interested in making waves, simply correcting incorrect thinking.  That is not, however, the point I am making in the thread.  My point is simply that I am offended by being thought of as needing or wanting the benefit of someone else's beliefs.

Eegghhchhh.

It was intended to get a rise out of you, I admit. And your response is informative, though I wish to apologize for labeling you.

In such few words, that is my exact answer.  When a Theist offers me a blessing, I feel they are making the assumption that I am of the same mindset as they are.  I am offended by strangers making misplaced assumptions about me, and not just pretaining to my [non]religious alignment.

Lol, calling me a hypocrite... ^^; Be glad you're not within kicking distance, sir.

Here we return to my Luciferian-Christian scenario.  Let me guess, you probably wouldn't hold it against a Christian if they were offended by and even lashed out at being offered a Satanic blessing.  But, oh! "God forbid" [lol, pardon the expression, I just enjoy the 'oomph' behind it X3] an Atheist get offended by an interaction of the same nature!

No doubt a good amount of Christians would take offense if I "responded in kind".  I have no blessings or kind words to offer.  My response, if I gave one at all, would be "I am an Atheist and do not accept blessings from any diety".  Oh yeah, THAT one's bound to put a smile on their faces, right Satori?

At what point have any of us implied that malice creeps behind their words? Obviously, these people believe they're being nice when they "bless" us.  Nonetheless, if you are not in accord with that person's beliefs, then even the best of wishes on behalf of their Theism are rather misplaced.

I won't think to speak for everyone in this forum, but as for myself I am beyond such childish antics.  Offense is not the same thing as outrage, and the last thing I would do is pitch a fit in front of these people.  Not only is it not worth the energy, but it also won't get them to take it back, seeing as some of them have no consideration for others' beliefs.

All in all, you can't tell me how to respond to people.  That is something personal that varies from person to person.  If you're content with tolerating an infringement on your beliefs with a smile, then good for you.  But I'm not that much of a pushover

If it helps ... been there, done that.

This was sent Oct 07, do you think Erin is still praying every day?   Really?  

and if that's so, how many other things of greater import are on the 'every day' list?  Do you think maybe we could move brian down to the weekly and leave some time for those starving to death due to drought, suffering from curable diseases they cannot afford to have treated (or for that matter, suffering from incurable diseases that your god made, in his infinite love), or actual people that are doing harm to others or enabling huge numbers of people to do harm to other?  There's got to be a whole list of people and things to ask aid from other than Brian's being mean to a concept.

Or..  maybe, just maybe, that time could be spent actually doing something about the problems of our world?

That's a good point.  Since prayer was compared to a mustard seed, and mustard is eaten, it follows that prayer will sate your appetite.  But wouldn't that make fasting blasphemy?

"If it helps ... been there, done that."

Me: Woo-HOO!

Conor

Well, there's a problem. You see there's this unforgivable sin. It's in the bible. That's this book that christians believe in, perhaps you've heard of it. Well anyway, in there three times is this unforgivable sin. So, you can pray all you want. But I can't be forgiven.

While you're busy with prayer for me, I'll be working on improving the standards and quality of living for all people of the world. You see I run for elected office, write letters to political leaders, try to educate people about the world around them, all the while learning more about it myself. I try to encourage people to live their lives to fullest. I'm always happy to answer people's questions. I'm working hard to get out of debt to better my own standard of living and that of my family. I donate to charity. I help my friends. I help strangers. That one driver that stops and offers assistance out of the hundreds that just pass by, that's me. I have real actions with real results. You go ahead and ask for your invisible friend to help me even though he said he wouldn't.