Top 10 Conspiracy Theories...Do you believe any?

HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Top 10 Conspiracy Theories...Do you believe any?

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government

2. UFO Recovered at Roswell

3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination

4. Global Warming is a Fraud

5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family

6. Jewish World Domination

7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax

8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen

9. The Third Secret of Fatima

10. The Philadelphia Experiment

Top 10 list in depth

Do any of you find any of these conspiracies quite plausible, if so, please explain.

If you think any of them are completely ridiculous....feel free to rant.

 

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


deludedgod
Rational VIP!ScientistDeluded God
deludedgod's picture
Posts: 3221
Joined: 2007-01-28
User is offlineOffline
The fact that conspiracy

The fact that conspiracy theories seem to consistently develop around large, spectacular historical events seems to indicate more about human psychology than it does about the actual happenings of those events themselves. It is true that people by nature follow authority, but it is also true to state that people enjoy the thrill of knowing (or believing) that they hold some secret, exclusive knowledge and that they are lone searchers for truth in a world where everyone else is blind. Because of this, several fallacious arguments tend to develop around conspiracy theories. One of them is the "you have an agenda" argument. This is essentially a bulverism fallacy. Another is "everyone has abandoned a search for truth except for us". This is commonly employed by HIV/AIDs causality deniers, despite very few of them being familiar with molecular biology. Another common one is "we are the victim of suppression by an evil establishment" being argued on the basis of the rejection of the views by the majority of people in the field of speciality under discussion. This is very commonly played by creationists and ID activists. Speaking of which, why didn't you include creationism/ID? It is essentially a conspiracy theory.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 4112
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
All but Jewish world

All but Jewish world domination are complete paranoia and hysteria.

 

The Bible(old testament) and Koran I think were created with the idea of making the tribe(Jewish, Arab) dominant. If people believed an all power god was on their side, they would come to dominate the region and world.

In Jewish culture, there is and understanding of the power of money and how to make it and how to use money to get power to make more money. So it's kind of a conspiracy, but I don't think it's so much conscience thing. There is no group of Jews meeting to plot out world domination. It's a meme of the Jewish, Arab and other cultures to use money and power to dominate. The Chinese, Mormons, Muslims and Evangelical Christians are bent on world domination, but it's not so much a conspiracy as it is a meme.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Nikolaj
Superfan
Nikolaj's picture
Posts: 503
Joined: 2008-04-27
User is offlineOffline
The Kennedy assasination

The Kennedy assasination thing.

 

I'm open to conjecture, within reason about there being "more to it" than just Oswald's own impulse to kill the President. The grasy knoll thing, or whatever it's called is superperflous and that I am as sceptical about as any other outlandish proposition, but it seems reasonable to me to at least be open to the possibility that someone hired or convinced Oswald to do it.

 

At any given moment, with any given president, there are many many people who would have an interest in assasinating the president of the most powerful country in the world, so motives are abound. As far as oppotunity, any intelligence agency in the world, and also powerful criminal organisations and very rich individuals and coorporations have the resources to make the attempt. It only takes one guy with a gun, after all.

 

And since it all hinges on accepting just ONE simple possibility: that Lee Harvey Oswald shut up about any accomplices he may have had, that is not too hard a possibility to swallow. There are thousands of reasons someone might do that, and many of them could be psychological reasons that only exist in his own head, and so cannot be gleaned from any outside evidence. If he was payed large sums of money to keep quiet, that would be hard to believe, because that would be hard for him to keep secret.

 

But if, for example, he really was pretty crazy, then maybe a single, clever intelligence operative could somehow psychologically manipulate him into thinking he shouldn't talk about anyone else that where involved, or maybe even convince him that is was all his own idea. It is maybe not likely, but it certainly is possible.

 

And unlike most conspiracy theories, it doesn't require a thousand different pieces to fall into place in an extremelly improbable way, it only requires one: that Oswald, for some reason, kept quiet about accomplices.

 

Who those accomplices are, and why they wanted JFK dead, is then a different matter, and the many different theories out there are ofcourse wildly different in their level of believability. For example that he was killed by the CIA because he intended to divulge the truth about the aliens that crashed at Roswell is of course just stupid (That was just an example I made up, but I'd be surprised if that theory isn't out there).

 

So, what I guess I'm saying is that I don't actually buy any of the theories I've heard about the JFK assasination, but I am open to the possibility that there may have been a conspiracy involved.

Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
You just made that up huh? I

You just made that up huh? I doubt it Nikolaj! http://www.world-mysteries.com/doug_jfk.htm

jk


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
Pearl Harbor

Is the only one I believer more plausable than the others, as there was a president in power that wanted to join the allied forces in war, but a public that wanted to avoid war, and knew about the impending attack but allowed it to happen so that the people would have no choice but to support the war. It's plausible, no necessarily true, but plausiable. 9/11 not even close because the amount of people involved do pull it off, between the demolishin company(s), the air companies, and of course government officials would make it impossible to pull of without anyone talking about it.


Bahana
atheist
Bahana's picture
Posts: 85
Joined: 2006-08-04
User is offlineOffline
I don't think Global Warming

I don't think Global Warming is a fraud because I've read plenty of convincing evidence for it. My college history prof spent a whole week on the JFK assassination and it was very convincing that Oswald did it. Don't rely on Oliver Stone movies for history. The others I am not convinced of. Skeptic magazine is very good at addressing claims like these and examining them in a scientific way.


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
As for me, XC's comments on

As for me, XC's comments on the Jews melds quite well with my own view. Its not a conspiracy, but groups, races, religions usually seek out the most power that they can acheive. As an ethno-religious group with a fairly large ratio of influence/people, they have amassed a ton of wealth, power, and political influence for their relative worldwide population.

JFK, I think it is possible that he was not the only one involved in the planning and execution of Kennedy's assasination. Who? I don't know and have no proof. If it really was just one man on a mission it is profoundly impressive.

Global warming is tactically used to portray things in a fraudulent manner, but the science is quite compelling for its man made contributions. The skeptic magazine issue dealing with the controversy was excellent.

The pearl harbor theory seems more plausible than most of the ideas in the top ten, and I really don't want to believe it due to the implications if it is true. I think the truth lies more along the 911 thinking of the administration...that accounts of such attacks were largely exaggerated, and less than seriously tangible probabilities.

As for all of the other conspiracy theories mentioned in this post, I see the rest as lacking serious consideration.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
The JFK one and the Pearl

The JFK one and the Pearl Harbor one. I don't believe either was an inside job. I do believe there is a lot we don't know. I do think the government had an idea about Pearl Harbor - at least once the radar images showed up.

 

The calling global warming a fraud one pisses me off the most. We KNOW CO2 leads to warming. The only reason anyone with a clue argues against it is because of greed - the explanations such as the sun getting warmer are utterly idiotic. Most of the idiots that don't believe global warming true also don't believe evolution true.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Gauche
atheist
Gauche's picture
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2007-01-18
User is offlineOffline
I know that global warming

I know that global warming is bullshit because co2 comes out of your mouth when you breathe . So if the people who claim that they want to stop it actually believed that it was true they would shut the fuck up. But they never shut up they just go on about it endlessly, it's all I ever hear about anymore. global warming? more like global whining if you ask me.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


Shaitian
Posts: 386
Joined: 2006-07-15
User is offlineOffline
1. 9/11 was Planned by the

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government
         Plausible

2. UFO Recovered at Roswell
         I would like to believe so, I would love to think that there are more intellegent beings out there who are screwing around with us. I have heard first hand from a "friend" also that i would not like to know what is going on there so ( they will get in trouble if i say anymore than that)...

3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination
        YES! Any hunter will tell you that when shooting at a downward angle you will not get a slightly upward bullet hole entry. Not only that but you cant shoot a bullet and have it come in from a another area... ( if you dont believe me go look up your facts and see what the govt says the bullet hole projections were, plus find the game JFK Reloaded, it was created to exactly replicate the the warren commissions findings and to this day no one has been able to get 1000 points(the most points possible))

4. Global Warming is a Fraud
       no.

5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family
     no

6. Jewish World Domination
       Yes John Steward for World leader!!! (no not really)

7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax
       no

8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen

      I would hate for this to be true.

9. The Third Secret of Fatima
     Uhhh a person who died 2000 years ago talked to you? Are you sure you are taking your meds? maybe we should up the dosage.

10. The Philadelphia Experiment
     I believe the US gov't tried for this in the 40's but were unsuccessful in acoplishing anything.  It wouldnt supprise me because we were trying things we never would have otherwise.
 
*edit added to jfk assasination


Gauche
atheist
Gauche's picture
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2007-01-18
User is offlineOffline
I also think professional

I also think professional boxing is rigged


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Some fights have been fixed,

Some fights have been fixed, I wonder about that too. Is there really corruption that is fairly widespread at the top levels. I can remember watching Trinidad and De La hoya in 99'and being literally dumbfounded by Oscar losing it. Boxing has become outshined by MMA, particularly the UFC, that I don't really concern myself with it though.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Q: What's more attractive to

Q: What's more attractive to Princess Di than a Rich Egyptian?

A:  A strongly built Pole.

 

Sorry... had to do it.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
I guess I have to throw in a

I guess I have to throw in a monkey wrench, though.  If you mean plausible in the philosophical sense -- that is, within the realm of possibility, but very unlikely -- then I'd say it's plausible, but highly unlikely that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen.  I don't believe it's true, but if one were to pull off such a job, it would have been a lot easier in the 40s than say, engineering 9/11 in the surveillance and media decade.

The only reason I say it's plausible is that you can make a plausible, if not rock solid, case for the political need for an event to unite American sentiment.  Furthermore, it was within the technological realm of possibility, and it is not unheard of for a country to get itself into a war surreptitiously.  In other words, though all the elements are implausible, each is within the realm of possibility.

For 9/11, I suppose it's technically possible, but the size and scope is so unbelievable that I can't even call it plausible.  There are no UFOs because deep space travel to other solar systems is a technological pipe dream, no matter what sci-fi writers think.

JFK?  I would believe it if the Mythbusters had been able to make an ice bullet.  (No, I wouldn't, but it sounded fun to say)

You have to really, really want to believe Global Warming is a fraud to ignore the overwhelming evidence.  I know LOTS of scientists.  To a man, every one of them says that only quacks and corporate flunkies believe it's a fraud.

Princess Di was murdered by a Pole.  (See above.)

The Jews got their shot when we gave them Hollywood.  I don't think MI-3 counts as world domination.

There have been 12 men on the moon, IIRC.

Third Secret of naughty girls.

Philadelphia experiment... see fallacy of unknown science.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


Nikolaj
Superfan
Nikolaj's picture
Posts: 503
Joined: 2008-04-27
User is offlineOffline
Gauche wrote: I know that

Gauche wrote:
I know that global warming is bullshit because co2 comes out of your mouth when you breathe . So if the people who claim that they want to stop it actually believed that it was true they would shut the fuck up.

Huh?

I suspect you are being ironic, but just in case you aren't.

 

Global warming doesn't mean CO2 = bad. It means, excessive amounts of CO2 in the upper athmosphere = bad.

Just compare to the following statement: "People who say that it would be a bad thing if the earth was covered in water are just stupid, because 3/4 of the earth is covered in water, so they should go drain all the oceans, is they really think water is so bad."

 

And incidently, you don't stop breathing because you shut up, so what good would that do?

Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
You are one sick fuck Hamby!

You are one sick fuck Hamby! Enjoy your kitten dinner. Half Egyptian/half Polish people everywhere will be outraged!

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Conspiracy Theories are

Conspiracy Theories are often like Hypothesis's,  inevitable , and often even silly, but questioning is obviously good. The problem is unbalanced non-open communication. Sue the FCC etc. 

      I would say the super mega rich do have a language and agenda of their own, but it's more like the "contagious mental disease of excessive greed".

There are no "spiritual" or "truth" secrets.

Secrets are a rarity, especially as the number of people involved increases, and the magnitude of the "secret".

         Basically the Gov / Church / Money System IS basically a CONSPIRACY !

                                              "EAT THE RICH"  

 

 


Gauche
atheist
Gauche's picture
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2007-01-18
User is offlineOffline
Nikolaj wrote:Huh?I suspect

Nikolaj wrote:

Huh?

I suspect you are being ironic, but just in case you aren't.

 

Global warming doesn't mean CO2 = bad. It means, excessive amounts of CO2 in the upper athmosphere = bad.

Just compare to the following statement: "People who say that it would be a bad thing if the earth was covered in water are just stupid, because 3/4 of the earth is covered in water, so they should go drain all the oceans, is they really think water is so bad."

 

that's a matter of opinion really.  What some find excessive others may consider to be perfectly reasonable.  What's the perfect temperature for the earth? How much co2 is just the right amount? Don't get me wrong I'm not in favor of pollution. But I hate alarmists and I can't stand environmentalists with their morally superior smug attitudes. It makes me wanna retch.

Quote:

And incidently, you don't stop breathing because you shut up, so what good would that do?

This is a good point. Instead of shutting up they should die.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
1. 9/11 was Planned by the

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government

The arguments in favor of this are all absurd, based largely upon bad physics and naked assertions.

Highly unlikely / no evidence.

2. UFO Recovered at Roswell

Well, something crashed in Roswell, and it was recovered promptly by the military. Personally, I suspect ths was an aircraft training excercize that ended in a crash.

No compelling evidence in favor of the crashed object being a UFO. Highly unlikely / argument from ignorance.

3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination

Oswald's motivations and behavior during the day were, to say the least, strange. I think there is some cause to doubt he was Kennedy's shooter as a result.

However, the ballistics evidence is certainyl not damning against him, and there is zero doubt he shot and killed Officer Tippet where he stood we stopped for questioning. Oswald would've probably got the chair for that offense alone anyway.

Circumstantial evidence. Plausible, but not beyond reasonable doubt.

4. Global Warming is a Fraud

Bad comedy, stirred-up by assholes like Michael Crichton. There should be no debate here at all; we can measure both global mean temperature and CO2 levels with remarkable accuracy, as well as take core samples from glaciers to determine melt rate.

The evidence is clear beyond reasonable doubt: the planet is getting warmer due to carbon dioxide emissions. This is a huge concern.

5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family

This has been investigated professionally at least three different times by various police agencies and independent investigators. Every conclusion points to the same shameful fact:

If there's a culprit to be blamed for the death of Diana and her husband, it's a pampered upbringing that never taught them the importance of basic things like wearing seatbelts. If Diana had been buckled-in, there's an extremely high probability she'd still be alive.

Personally, I think this should be the one example people should point to to raise consciousness in automobile-driven cultures of the importance of those uncomfortable things they insist you sling over your shoulder while riding.

6. Jewish World Domination

See: Holocaust Denial.

Also see: Total bullshit.

7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax

This one was brought about by people versed in photography but not well versed in astronomy, or vice-versa.

Zero compelling evidence / Highly unlikely

8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen

This can very simply be broken down into what we know and what we might speculate from that:

1) We know that Australian intelligence warned the U.S. administration that a Japanese attack group was sighted moving at speed towards Pearl Habor

2) We know that U.S. intelligence knew roughly what the Japanese plan of setting-up a naval perimeter looked like, and that this plan put Pearl at considerable risk for attack.

3) We know that, on the day of the attack, the U.S. had it's battleships all lined-up in Battleship Row in the habor, while the flat-tops were out performing excercizes. As a result of this, the U.S. lost it's least critical assets in the attack.

 

So, it might be a similar case to 9/11: FDR simply ignored the warnings or perhaps didn't bother reading the reports, and a series of coincidences afterward led to the attack being so spectacular yet strategically ineffective. Or, it might be that FDR knew what was likely, and made a decision to not put his forces on alert, so that the attack could be carried-out and win him the support for going to war.

In either case, it's not necessarily a pretty picture for FDR, in terms of domestic security. That said, Pearl is what enabled D-Day, and was the worst strategic choice made by an axis power in WWII. If FDR did decide it needed to happen, hindsight says I agree with him: it would've been the decisive political move of the war, and the ends most surely justified the means.

9. The Third Secret of Fatima

See: superstitious nonsense.

10. The Philadelphia Experiment

Totally bogus. The Eldridge was busy getting a shakedown in the bahamas when the alleged experiment in Philadelphia occurred. Not to mention that, if such an experiment were actually viable, it's curious that the U.S. didn't simply sweep the naval theatre with invisible warships. Sticking out tongue

 

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Ken G.
Posts: 1352
Joined: 2008-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Pearl Harbor

Well I don't agree with the people who believes in UFO'S or any of the other Conspircies,but when you read the "Secret History of the American Empire"by John Perkins, one wonders what the TRUE story really is concerning Pearl Harbor. John Perkins story starts after WWII, but I have read some where that the United States maybe have provoked the Japanese by cutting off their acsess too the Island of Java where they had oil. PS John Perkins first book THE CONFESSION of a ECONOMIC HIT-MAN was a real EYE-OPENER for me,check his web site at WWW.JohnPerkins.ORG.

Signature ? How ?


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
"waking up" .... J.

"waking up" .... J. Perkins  !   I like that idea  !  

              

 


Spacefish
Posts: 2
Joined: 2008-01-15
User is offlineOffline
I think global warming by

I think global warming by Emissions is totally bullshit. There is even evidence that the fog in the atmosphere emitted by airplanes 10km above the ground reflects long IR rays from the sun and keeps the earth cool. In the past billion years earth has warm and cold phases it always changes thats totally normal. I always think "piss off" if they talk about limiting the speed to 120 km/h on highways here in germany (we have no speedlimits on highways normaly only on crowded / curvy parts). It would limit the CO2 emission by 0,02% and only ~20% is done by cars here. Rest by industry and powerplants. So many people here call it "climate change" instead of "global warming" ^^ And actually the predicted nearby no snow last winter but we got a lot of snow and we hat 3times more days between 0°C than predicted that fucked up the hole campain about "global warming" a littlebit Laughing out loud Some company´s try to jump on that "you help to stop the global warming" train, to better sell their products here... that´s not good because they also push the discussion and more and more people believe it!.  But theire is actually no evidence that the global warming is caused by emissions.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Do we humans effect the thin

Do we humans effect the thin layer of air ? Well fuck ya, ..... call it what you will .....


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
Spacefish wrote:I think

Spacefish wrote:

I think global warming by Emissions is totally bullshit.

...So, in your professional and scientific opinion, greenhouse gasses have no impact on the overall temperature of a closed environment?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Thomathy
Superfan
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:1.

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government

No.

Quote:
2. UFO Recovered at Roswell

No.

Quote:
3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination

I don't get this one.  He was killed... is there something wrong with calling it an assassination?

Quote:
4. Global Warming is a Fraud

It's certainly not the whole story and it is rather misleading, but as it's popularly understood it is occurring.

Quote:
5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family

No.

Quote:
6. Jewish World Domination

No.  There's not enough Jews anyhow...

Quote:
7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax

No.

Quote:
8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen

No.

Quote:
9. The Third Secret of Fatima

That the Vatican didn't release the real secret?  Who cares?  I'll go with no, but it doesn't matter anyhow; the secrets are inconsequential, unimportant and wholly fictitious.

Quote:
10. The Philadelphia Experiment

No.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


nutxaq
nutxaq's picture
Posts: 399
Joined: 2008-04-06
User is offlineOffline
latincanuck wrote:Is the

latincanuck wrote:

Is the only one I believer more plausable than the others, as there was a president in power that wanted to join the allied forces in war, but a public that wanted to avoid war, and knew about the impending attack but allowed it to happen so that the people would have no choice but to support the war. It's plausible, no necessarily true, but plausiable. 9/11 not even close because the amount of people involved do pull it off, between the demolishin company(s), the air companies, and of course government officials would make it impossible to pull of without anyone talking about it.

I have my doubts about Pearl Harbor. If Roosevelt was looking to join the fight it wouldn't really make sense to let a sizable portion of the Pacific fleet be destroyed, when in all actuality even a thwarted attack by the Japanese would probably have sufficed.

I agree with you about the overly complicated orchestration of 9/11 with one caveat. You either have to be incredibly stupid to receive a document titled "Terrorist Learns to Fly" and not act on it. I think it's possible, and given the ensuing manipulations of the Bush administration, probable that they viewed it as an opportunity to pick a fight in the Middle East. Perhaps they were'nt imaginative enough to consider the actual goals of the hijackers. Maybe they figured on something less destructive  a la Munich. Either way I have a hard time believing that the inability to see what the afore mentioned document coupled with "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within U.S." and German intelligence warning us that Mohammed Atta's cell had infiltrated the states was spelling out was just an oopsie doodles.

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
nutxaq wrote:latincanuck

nutxaq wrote:

latincanuck wrote:

Is the only one I believer more plausable than the others, as there was a president in power that wanted to join the allied forces in war, but a public that wanted to avoid war, and knew about the impending attack but allowed it to happen so that the people would have no choice but to support the war. It's plausible, no necessarily true, but plausiable. 9/11 not even close because the amount of people involved do pull it off, between the demolishin company(s), the air companies, and of course government officials would make it impossible to pull of without anyone talking about it.

I have my doubts about Pearl Harbor. If Roosevelt was looking to join the fight it wouldn't really make sense to let a sizable portion of the Pacific fleet be destroyed, when in all actuality even a thwarted attack by the Japanese would probably have sufficed.

The U.S. lost no significant assets. The Japanese targeted the Battleships primarily (the largest and most expensive floating assets in the harbor, and while they took a number of them ou of action, Battleships did not play a significant role in WWII. Carriers had supplanted them.

The harbor facilities went untouched, as was fuel stock, the command buildings that housed key encryption technology, the cruiser fleet (which proved vital in supporting carrier groups), submarine infrastructure and many other key naval assets. I'm not saying these were missed on purpose (this was a blunder on the part of the Japanese naval commander), but rather that FDR took a gamble on what the Japanese were likely to hit and it paid-off.

 

Again, there is no dispute that Autralian intelligence warned the U.S. of the impending attack, no dispute that U.S. intelligence knew the rough battle plans of the Japanese and no dispute that the capital ships of WWII Battle groups (Carriers) were conveniently out on excercizes when Pearl was attacked.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Watcher
atheist
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2007-07-10
User is offlineOffline
Kevin R Brown wrote:The U.S.

Kevin R Brown wrote:

The U.S. lost no significant assets. The Japanese targeted the Battleships primarily (the largest and most expensive floating assets in the harbor, and while they took a number of them ou of action, Battleships did not play a significant role in WWII. Carriers had supplanted them.

Up until the end of WWII Battleships were considered the world over as the premeir elements of any Navy.  The war changed that idea.  However, when Pearl Harbor happened, those Battleships were considered the most important ships we had.

Kevin R Brown wrote:

The harbor facilities went untouched, as was fuel stock, the command buildings that housed key encryption technology, the cruiser fleet (which proved vital in supporting carrier groups), submarine infrastructure and many other key naval assets. I'm not saying these were missed on purpose (this was a blunder on the part of the Japanese naval commander), but rather that FDR took a gamble on what the Japanese were likely to hit and it paid-off.

Quite frankly the Japanese were gambling on the chance that America would not go into all out war over the tiny Hawaiian islands.  If you were going to take over an island it would probably be a good idea to not destroy all the supplies that you could use, now would it?  I'm not saying that they intentionally avoided those targets.  However I do believe they focused primarily on sinking ships first and foremost.  It would have been very foolish for FDR to surrender so many assets needed to win a war just to get into that war.

And remember, if it wasn't for the astronomical luck we had at Midway, the Pacific war could have gone on for quite a bit longer and been a lot bloodier than it already was.

Also, there was just as much evidence that the Japanese were going to invade the Panama Canal as they were Pearl Harbor.  With the luxury of time and hindsight we can come up with all sorts of reasons why they should have known it was happening.  I believe it was a much more confusing scenario back then before it happened.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


nutxaq
nutxaq's picture
Posts: 399
Joined: 2008-04-06
User is offlineOffline
Watcher wrote:And remember,

Watcher wrote:

And remember, if it wasn't for the astronomical luck we had at Midway, the Pacific war could have gone on for quite a bit longer and been a lot bloodier than it already was.

That's an excellent point. Until the battle at Midway the Japanese were actually kicking our asses. Battleships were critical to the success of the carriers. Without an escort they were basically sitting ducks. There were also several battles that were won through strategic use of battleships.

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


TheVenomPhoenix
Posts: 1
Joined: 2008-05-04
User is offlineOffline
1. 9/11 was Planned by the

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government

There is a lot about this we do not know. survivors who were on the first floor on the towers felt a large explosion coming from underneath them before impact. this was strong enough to break some people legs, and was even reported by some of the medical practitioners on site. the next problem was that there were even puffs of smoke that preceded the falling of the tower i.e as the tower fell, smoke can be seen coming out of floors below the site of compression as the levels collapsed, indicating explosions to weaken the structure. although this could be "compressed air and debris" being pushed out, it is too low to cause significant enough compression to break through the substantionally thick glass. the temperature of the wreckage was way too high. aeroplane fuel burns at a temperature a lot lower than the molten core found under the debris 3 days after they started clearing. for those who understand the second law of thermodynamics, you know why its impossible for aeroplane fuel to cause this. if the metal beams in the structure had been heated until it was soft enough to warp, you would expect to find warped beams and twisted ones, wheres a lot of the ones found had very sharp angles at 45 degrees, as if it had been cut through (btw, that kind of debris is the kind you see in demolition when they use thermate, also coinciding with the higher temperature). but heres the biggest thing. the tower fell as they said through "sandwedging", which relies on each layer falling on the one below. this would slow the rate of falling, but the tower fell in a complete freefall. the only thing that fits with all the evidence would be a demolition type collapse. however, this said, there is no way to know for certain whether or not it was the american government. i find it exceptionally coincidental that the government had a test on that day so they didnt know which planes where which. and the legislation that was put through immediately afterwards also seems a bit strange too. the pentagon thing is my biggest concern. there was nothing that indicated a plane wreckage at the pentagon. the only way that they could explain it was to say "it must have burned at such a high temperature, it disintregrated the plane. but if it was that hot, why didnt some of the more volatile materials in the debris also disintegrate. it can be plainly seen in the debris that there are materials that are exceptionally more volatile than metal. the power lines in the path required to hit the pentagon also seems a bit strange too. so although there is definately more to the story than we are being told, no one can say for certain that anyone in particular did it. all things said, i do find it plausible that the american government COULD have had something to do with it, as why else would they have lied about it. but anyway, thats my thoughts. we need more concrete data before we can make a decision.

2. UFO Recovered at Roswell

I do not know enough about this subject to make a decision. i dont think there was, but i havent researched it enough to comment.

3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination

from everything i have seen, this seems to have happened the same way as they said it did. but, i dont know enough about it. im not american.

4. Global Warming is a Fraud

fraud seems like a big word here. but yes, long story short, its not happening the way they are saying. there is no question whatsoever that the earth is heating up, and the ice caps are receding. none. but this was predicted. the earth goes through cycles of heating and cooling, and is on the up part of that cycle as we speak. the graph they show where carbon dioxide is increasing at roughly the same tamperature is an absolute joke. i say this because the temperature begins rising BEFORE the carbon dioxide. for anyone who has studied epidemiology, you know why that goes against saying CO2 is causing an increase in temperature. when we look at the past billion years (yes, we can do that) we find that the deepest, coldest ice age had a carbon dioxide concentration more than 10 times what it is now. when we look at the correlation between carbon dioxide and temperatuer over long periods, not just a few years, we find that there is NO correlation whatsoever. the phases we see in the earths temperature are a result of the suns cycles. look at mars. even mars' ice caps are receding, and we have not had anythign to do with that. both earth and mars are heating up, as we would expect if it was the suns phases and not the carbon dioxide concentration causing the heating. now then, carbon dioxide is a "greenhouse gas", but tabout 95% of the earths infrared absorption comes from the water vapor in our atmosphere, the remaining 5% is the greenhouse gases. of those gases, CO2 is only one of them. methane, ozone, etc. are all greenhouse gases. in fact, if we DOUBLED the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, it would equate only to a rise of 1 degree overall. after this, the effect of CO2 becomes so negligable, it might as well not contribute at all. so global warming is happening, but its a natural cycle, and has virtually nothing to do with the CO2 concetration in the atmosphere. in fact, having a higher CO2 concentration has done good things, the plants on earth are booming, and growing at an incredibaly fast rate in comparison to before. fossil fuel depletion is a concern however, as is the "smog" produced by them. the sulfurous compounds being released are of concern, and are detrimental to all who breath them.

5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family

there are a few things that dont add up. the big one for me was the doctor who attended the accident. when the accident happened, an emergency room doctor saw it and pulled over. when he saw diana, she was still alive, although barely conscious, and he saw nothing that would indicate she would die. in fact, his thought was, when he saw her, that she would be perfectly fine. this is an emergency room doctor saying that diana should have been perfectly fine, and saw nothing to indicate that she would die. so, i dont know, but there is something funny going on.

6. Jewish World Domination

ive never even heard of this one. no comment.

7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax

okay, im sure everyone knows about the photos, and how if you speed up the footage, it looks like they are just running.the waving flag is a bit of a mystery too. but the biggest thing for me is the van allen radiation belt. its a belt of radiation that encircles the earth (no, not the magnetic field, although the two are closely tied), and it only broken at the poles of the earth. this belt has lethal levels of radiation flowing through it. in fact, in order to adequately protect people inside of a spacecraft, it must have a 6 foot thick layer of lead to reduce the radiation to a tolerable level. the timing also seems a little coincidental. i mean, the last part of the year 1969, after JFK said "we will be on the moon in this decade" (he said that in the sixties for those of you who dont know). i mean, they have a very big motive there, and a lot of things about it dont add up. so yeah, if you ask me, its a hoax. NASA has given no explenation as to hwo they got through the van allen radiation belt. indead, the only way is to go through the poles, and they didnt do that. coupled with the rest of it, the only logical concluison i can draw is that it was staged.

8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen

i know of this, but i dont know enough to comment.

9. The Third Secret of Fatima

once again, i am unaware of anything regarding this matter. no comment.

10. The Philadelphia Experiment

hmm, i dont know. i dont think so though. i mean, people walking through walls and bursting into flames? a ship moving across the world in a fraction of a second? seems a little unplausable to me, i mean, how did the ship know to turn up on the water? why wasnt it up in the air, or under the water? so, although you cant disprove things, i say this one is unplausable and, in my opinion, didnt happen.


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
1. 9/11 was Planned by the

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government - Yeah. WTC 1,2, and 7 falls are identic with demolition, and strikingly different from a common building fall.  The skyscrapers, if they would fall, should fall flat across Manhattan, in large pieces. Certain parts of US government might encourage and help terrorists to do this attack from the outside, but a weight of a plane itself, no matter how fast or fueled, couldn't cause what happened.

2. UFO Recovered at Roswell - Probably yes, however, according to a certain source, both UFO material and recovered bodies by time spontaneously dematerialized (returned to their original etheric-material state from which they materialized), so ironically, there is no usable original UFO technology in Area 51 or anywhere else. There are no "proofs", except of the autopsy video. This also means, that the UFO crash was a deliberate sacrifice of the crew and the vehicle.

3. John F. Kennedy’s Assasination - I have no idea. I just know, that JFK had about 190 IQ points, and whenever someone smart appears, all dumbasses turns against him.

4. Global Warming is a Fraud - Hell, no! Weather had gone crazy, exotic poisonous spiders moves from a south to newly warmed north areas, so who still doubts about a global warming, can just lie comfortably on a sunlit British meadow and call to a local hospital, to prepare a black widow serum.

5. Princess Diana was Murdered by the Royal Family - No. I think it was an accident caused by too annoying paparazzi cars. These pests are deadly enough by themselves.

6. Jewish World Domination - No. Some most rich people on the planet are of Jewish origin, but an idea of bearded circumized men in black hats and coats behind our governments, is a nonsense. If anything, it would be a money domination, not based on any cultural or religional values, except of worshipping the money.

7. Apollo Moon Landing Hoax - Probably not, though I'd really like to know, what the C letter was doing on that photographed moon stone. Maybe photos and films were prepared before, if the moon landing would be unsuccesful, or there would be something too unusual to publish.
 
8. Pearl Harbor Was Allowed to Happen - Dunno.

9. The Third Secret of Fatima - Yes. I think it contains basically the same things, which Alice Bailey and Ben Creme (and several other people) publishes. However, a lot of plans changed since that time, so it may not be 100% precise, but still radical enough for Popes to hide it.

10. The Philadelphia Experiment - Dunno. Probably not.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
Weren't the "Twin Towers" of

Weren't the "Twin Towers" of unique construction ???

Why hasn't not one 911 "bomb planter helper" come out convincibly in the open, even on his death bed ???????????

On and on with these conspiracy theories ..... ???     Keeping secrets ??? 

         The "secret" is right under our faces ..... the rich system ..... we allow ..... 

                             "EAT THE RICH" ..... I don't want them .....

 


deludedgod
Rational VIP!ScientistDeluded God
deludedgod's picture
Posts: 3221
Joined: 2007-01-28
User is offlineOffline
Quote:1. 9/11 was Planned by

Quote:

1. 9/11 was Planned by the US Government - Yeah. WTC 1,2, and 7 falls are identic with demolition, and strikingly different from a common building fall.  The skyscrapers, if they would fall, should fall flat across Manhattan, in large pieces. Certain parts of US government might encourage and help terrorists to do this attack from the outside, but a weight of a plane itself, no matter how fast or fueled, couldn't cause what happened.

Yes, it could. I outlined the manner in which this most likely occured in this thread:

I believe 911 was an inside job, do you?

Near the bottom of pg. 1 and the bottom of pg 2.

Another thing, unless I am misreading you, you stated, quite plainly, that JFK had an IQ nine standard deviations above normal? Am I reading you right? This seems extremely doubtful.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
deludedgod wrote:Yes, it

deludedgod wrote:

Yes, it could. I outlined the manner in which this most likely occured in this thread:

I believe 911 was an inside job, do you?

Near the bottom of pg. 1 and the bottom of pg 2.


Well, stating how easy the steel is to break doesn't explain why the buildings behaved like it wouldn't be there at all.  
Also, the role of fire is exaggerated. This is very well displayed in a certain moment of 911 Mysteries, when there was a high building which burned for 12 hours, and then was still strong enough for a crane to be placed on it. Note, that WTC towers didn't really burn whole, and these parts which did, had only quite a cold, smoky fire for a hour or so. WTC 7 wasn't even on fire.

deludedgod wrote:

Another thing, unless I am misreading you, you stated, quite plainly, that JFK had an IQ nine standard deviations above normal? Am I reading you right? This seems extremely doubtful.

If I remember, I once had read somewhere a list of certain USA presidents with their IQ. Bush had something over 90, and Kennedy really such or similarly high IQ, at least according to that article. I usually trust my long-termed memory.
 

IQ of 190 certainly isn't the highest anyone ever had, but yeah, it's hard to believe, maybe I'm wrong in that? 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


deludedgod
Rational VIP!ScientistDeluded God
deludedgod's picture
Posts: 3221
Joined: 2007-01-28
User is offlineOffline
In the previous post, I made

In the previous post, I made a mistake. That should say 6 SD above normal, not 9. The SD for IQ is 15, not 10. Anyway, the Normal Distribution curve for IQ does not have a probability space allowing for 6 standard deviations from the mean in either direction.

Regarding the 9/11 thread. You have greatly simplified, and indeed, destroyed the meaning of, a very complicated point I was trying to argue. I was arguing for a 7-part multifactorial analysis where the combination of 7 factors could have (as was mathematically shown) taken down the tower, and that each of the 7 factors could directly be causally linked to the impact of the aircraft with the building.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
deludedgod wrote:In the

deludedgod wrote:

In the previous post, I made a mistake. That should say 6 SD above normal, not 9. The SD for IQ is 15, not 10. Anyway, the Normal Distribution curve for IQ does not have a probability space allowing for 6 standard deviations from the mean in either direction.

Yeah, it always makes me feel good to look at this curve, to see my humble IQ in such an unprobable area. By humble I mean, on the internet I sometimes get an impression, that, 120 is a minimum, 130 an average and the curve falling down is convex.
Did Stephen Hawking have to get a special permission on his IQ?
 

deludedgod wrote:
 Regarding the 9/11 thread. You have greatly simplified, and indeed, destroyed the meaning of, a very complicated point I was trying to argue. I was arguing for a 7-part multifactorial analysis where the combination of 7 factors could have (as was mathematically shown) taken down the tower, and that each of the 7 factors could directly be causally linked to the impact of the aircraft with the building.
I'm sorry. These 7 factors could certainly explain if the buildings would fall under normal circumstances. But are these normal circumstances like the unusual smoke coming from below the building, an explosive micro bursts, (typical for demolitions) filmed just under the progressing fall, the explosions in basement, or a clean, straight sloping cuts by melt on the main pillars, which are identic with a demolition technique? If not, then these explananations aren't perhaps so valuable.
My favorite observation is a molten steel, flowing in the ruins for a month after the fall. If a kerosine would be so potent, travelling on Mars and back would be a routine.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
deludedgod wrote:In the

deludedgod wrote:

In the previous post, I made a mistake. That should say 6 SD above normal, not 9. The SD for IQ is 15, not 10. Anyway, the Normal Distribution curve for IQ does not have a probability space allowing for 6 standard deviations from the mean in either direction.

 

 

I was about to correct you on that. My degree is in Psychology. I don't believe 9 standard deviations above could even be measured - that would be an incredible IQ of 235. He was very intelligent but 190 is likely even higher than Stephen Hawkings has.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Luminon, Fatima?

Luminon, Fatima? Really?

Actually my reason for posting was to debunk the presidential IQ hoax. Luckily Snopes has already done it for me.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


Luminon
SuperfanTheist
Luminon's picture
Posts: 2455
Joined: 2008-02-17
User is offlineOffline
HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:
Luminon, Fatima? Really?
I've got my reasons to consider this probable. Madonna is a typical Christianic figure, which, as I think, embodies also a principle of adaptation in Christianity. For example, Madonna is used as a way how to get a bit of reason and truth into Christianic teaching, without having it immediately rejected as devil's whispering. When beings responsible for human consciousness development wants to reform this religion finally to not let it be so...cultic, (you know, flattering God, humbling ourselves and thinking it will make him feel good) then Madonna is a good intermediary.

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:


Actually my reason for posting was to debunk the presidential IQ hoax. Luckily Snopes has already done it for me.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

Dammit...16 points difference, that's a lot. Either that paper where I had read it is wrong, or this link is wrong, or my memory isn't what it used to be.


 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


HeyZeusCreaseToe
Superfan
HeyZeusCreaseToe's picture
Posts: 675
Joined: 2008-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Luminon

Luminon wrote:

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:
Luminon, Fatima? Really?
I've got my reasons to consider this probable. Madonna is a typical Christianic figure, which, as I think, embodies also a principle of adaptation in Christianity. For example, Madonna is used as a way how to get a bit of reason and truth into Christianic teaching, without having it immediately rejected as devil's whispering. When beings responsible for human consciousness development wants to reform this religion finally to not let it be so...cultic, (you know, flattering God, humbling ourselves and thinking it will make him feel good) then Madonna is a good intermediary.

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

 

Actually my reason for posting was to debunk the presidential IQ hoax. Luckily Snopes has already done it for me.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp

Dammit...16 points difference, that's a lot. Either that paper where I had read it is wrong, or this link is wrong, or my memory isn't what it used to be. 

Luminon, either your ability to access information is severely reduced or you were just being lazy. That snopes article said that list was a hoax, JFK's IQ wasn't 174 like it said in that article. That article was a hoax. Another article, that wasn't being used to bash Republicans through propaganda mentioned JFK's IQ was 119.

Here is the excerpt

"Unlike John F. Kennedy, who obtained an IQ score of 119, or Al Gore, who achieved scores of 133 and 134 on intelligence tests taken at the beginning of his high school freshman and senior years, no IQ data are available for George W. Bush. But we do know that the young Bush registered a score of 1206 on the SAT, the most widely used test of college aptitude. (The more cerebral Al Gore obtained 1355.)"

 

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda