I always saw the whole thing as a very primitive tribal throwback. I do tend to sing Oh Canada, more because I enjoy the tune than anything else, but I never bought into the religious-like adherence to rituals and gestures.

Any nation that is particularly obsessed with such things has some very real problems that are being ignored in a very 1984esque manner. It's basically no different than the mandatory hate hour or whatever it was called in the book. Meant to distract everyone from real problems by stirring up patriotic fervour.

a few years ago here in slovakia, a particularly nasty fucking nationalist party was in the coalition government and pushed throuh legislation that every schoolroom had to diplay these bullshit placards showing the slovak flag, the words to the slovak national anthem, and the preamble of the slovak constitution. of course, each school was responsible for furnishing those things out of their own budgets. i hate those fucking things and frequently say so, both in front of students and administrators. of course, they all agree with me, but shrug fatalistically. as for the nazi piece of shit who authored that law, his justification was how impressed he was with the patriotism of students while on a visit to the US (snicker).


you can’t fucking legislate patriotism. slovaks are notoriously ambivalent about their country because of the rampant (but slowly improving) corruption and the history of foreign domination. this cunt thinks he can force students to be proud with an ugly fucking billboard taking up valuable wall space in classrooms. worse yet, when a supposedly more liberal, enlightened government came to power a couple years later, many people called for the repeal of this legislation, and the new government flat out refused to consider it. at least slovakia doesn't have a pledge of allegiance...yet...

The pledge and Star Spangled Banner are not laws like a country's constitution and are strictly voluntary. I agree it is ok to like it from a "this sounds nice I like the tune" or "My country has some good things in it". But condemning somebody for not partaking in them is out of 1984. I hate it when our politicians have upon occasion, been asked why they don't wear an American flag pin. Really? 

Yes when you sell dogmatic patriotism it becomes on par with, oppressive theocracies. 

"Oh Canada" is a good tune. If I remember correctly it was originally written in French.

I remember doing the pledge every morning at catholic school... I look back on it now and makes me think of nazi kids in the youth movement.

Tell that to the Republicans

The United States Code is a consolidation and codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States

- http://uscode.house.gov/

Don't look now but you are kissing your sister. I AGREE! Make love to me you sexy earlobe lover! Fat statues turn me on.

You stupidly think that complexity is the key to understanding humanity. I wont argue that it is not. IN CONTEXT! I will argue the age of the planet and our finite nature, and the fact that you'd love that I would have less breath's and a shorter time on earth as EVIDENCE, that religion is poison, and "patriotism" is simply a different word for religion.

If we were patriotic to our own camps of thought, and upon our first dissent here, which did happen, both of us would be entitled to do harm to the other by force of law. Patriotism is relegated to nationalism, but it is still the same concept of following and loyalty religion has. You have not killed me and I have not killed you, and we are still here. 

Do yourslelf a huge favor, consider the prospect of the word "patriotism" and "religion" as both the idea of group think.

I am not holding my breath that we will become friends. I am quite sure we can, despite the fact we hate each other, live without the desire beyond verbally bitch slapping each other.

don't be stupid. i don't hate you.

Ok, you have a funny way of showing it.

Ok, can I put that in my sig? 

Look dude, we will never be roommates but all this started when you suggested I talked to Bob and he didn't give you the answer you wanted. 

I am NOT asking the forced end of Buddhism anymore than Christianity or Islam or Hinduism. I am suggesting, that while they are all complex, which they are, what has not changed in our species history is that we are the same species. I would suggest is that humans get lost in that complexity which ends up distracting humans that we are the same species.

I know we need secular historians to wade through the soap opras  and fairy tales humans create. But the ride still ends, rich or poor, regardless of boarders or status. 

I do hate you, not your intent, not your evolutionary empathy. And don't tell me you want to hang out with me tomorrow because that would be a lie. I don't hate your intent. Even from the start of our beef, I knew it was comming from a place of good intent. I simply got pissed that you thought your title meant shit to me. 

The "hate" is merely personality. I love the freedom we have here. I love that you can bitch me out and I can bitch you out and nobody dies. 

 The problem when you pulled the "teacher" card was the same authoritarin bagage my well intended parents had. Both my mom and dad were sold the script that boys don't cry and do what you are told and sink or swim. Before we met, I had long diched scripts and who does what. My mom did a nobel thing, and I don't falt her for that, but I do blame humanity for script thinking. My mom is still alive, and she has completely changed. She still loves me as I do her , and we still squabble over mundane personality differences. But she is not the authoritarian she was when I grew up. 

So when you said you were a teacher, it was to me like Newton shouting "HEY ASSHOLE, I GOT PYSICS RIGHT, JUST IGNORE MY FETISH FOR ACHEMY"  (Buddhism in your case)

I am sure you are NOT WRONG about everything. I am sure that your title is not an entitlement. 

"teacher" is not a title. teacher is a job. i never once used the fact that i am a teacher to leverage my opinion, which anyone else observing our conversations over the years would know. i merely mentioned i'm a teacher once or twice and you ran with it, like you run with everything irrelevant. i did mention i'm pursuing a phd in religious studies as shorthand for "i know what i'm talking about in this area better than you do." by the way, asshole, a title does not equal entitlement. i didn't inherit my humble academic credentials. i worked damn hard for every degree i have, and i'm working harder than i've ever worked for this one. so pardon me if i think my opinion on religions deserves a little more respect than the average person's. just as dawkins is more qualified to talk about evolutionary biology than i am, and he got there through hard work, i'm more qualified to talk about religions, especially indian religions, than you. or dawkins, for that matter.


i have no "buddhism fetish." you're the one who keeps bringing buddhism into things. i haven't brought it up on my own initiative in years. same thing with being a teacher. the way you talk, it's like i'm throwing it in everybody's face in every thread, but i actually haven't mentioned it myself in god knows how long. these are all just your usual bullshit excuses to keep your hysteria going. if you would finally drop these topics, it's a good chance nobody on this site would ever hear "teacher" or "buddhism" from me ever again. nobody has, except where you keep bringing it up.


i'm not trying to bury any hatchet with you, brian, because there is no hatchet as far as i'm concerned. i don't hate you because i don't have it in my nature to hate text on a screen, which is all you are to me.

 Right, teacher is a "job" but you treated it like a title, not me. Neurosurgeon is also a job, but Ben Carson's denial of evolution doesn't make him right because he is a neurosurgeon. 

No "hysteria". "Hysteria" is what you are doing. You wanted special treatment because you find some pretty things in Buddhism, which wasn't even my argument, then you hid beind your job as a dodge to my argument.

I am sorry it bothers you that I don't give any special treatment to any human invented club or holy book. Sagan's Pale Blue dot speech should explain my position. The entire Cosmos series with Neil Tyson, will also add to that. The God Delusion also. Victor Stinger's books which I have mentioned before will also do that.

Arguing that ANY human invented club is requred is absurd. The fact humans think they need it only means they think they need it. I only agree that we as a species have to deal with reality. 99% of all life is now extinct, and in the future all life including humans will go extinct. The fact religion exists now only proves humans have vivid imaginations.

Religion exists as a result of gap filling, a placebo, a false perception. For the same reason a dog will bark at it's reflection in the mirror thinking it is another dog. Not appealing to those who are in religion, no. Humans don't like being told maybe they got it wrong. That is also the unfortunate reality we live in. So the only human thing humans can do is allow the claims to be made, but also allow for those claims to be challenged.

And yet more projections, red herrings, strawmen, and lies by Brian. It's really funny how he insists iwbiek lorded his profession over everyone despite the fact that never happened.

Yeah, I think I remember iwbiek bringing it up once or twice and it was relevant to the topic. Kind of like me mentioning my business after being here for about five years in a thread with a person embarking on opening retail and asking for advice. Ever since Brian mentions it every thread as if I've ever said, "My argument is right because I have $x." Though apparently Nick Hanauer is right just because he is richish.

I gotta derail your derail. Stop hijacking my blog for your own personal arguments that have nothing to do with my original post. Take it some where else.

And no need to reply, but what the fuck is that type of evidence for an argument? 

"Bongo's Funny Red Dog and Episode 5, 10, 21, 47 and 92 of the Addams Family show will explain my position." WTF. How much more obscure can you possibly be?

*Spits coffee everywhere*