Well, just had the religious debate chat with my Father...
Offline I've officially debated with all three members of my family on the subject of religion. I know I've mentioned on here before that I've had a bad relationship with my Dad, but in his defense he had changed a lot since childhood.
In the past, I've worried that the debate would be intense but it was actually pleasant. More pleasant then the debates I had with my sister and mother. I actually told him beforehand that I didn't wanna make him doubt, but he said I couldn't so I brought my A game on.
My Father has a lot more knowledge of God and the holy bible then my Mom and sister who I both destroyed in my debates with them, but my Dad did a much better job at defending his belief's.He does have a strong faith in God and does present a good (but old) argument that defends the Christian God, and like my debate I had with Todd Friel weeks before, it ended with us agreeing to disagreeing and that I should keep studying.
I admit, it did surprise me a little that he did have a lot more knowledge on the bible and evolution then I thought, and that even though I brought my A game and hit him with a lot of RRS and Richard Dawkins weapons , he was still able to keep up with me. He doesn't even watch Way of the Master so he didn't use any of their stuff and didn't once have a look of doubt in his face or voice..which my Mom and sister both had when I debated with them...but the old man actually went the distance and it ended in a draw.
In closing, I am glad that my whole family knows now that I am an agnostic and that they're cool with it. I thought maybe it wouldn't go over too well, but it did so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
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Which arguement did your father use if you dont mind me asking?
That;s very good for you father - if he is strong enough in his faith to ward off a theological attack that deftly, he has a strong mind and heart.
I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
Woot! No more "closet" for you!
It's got to feel good.
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Well, he used the classic "If there's a watch, there must be a watchmaker" argument, ....which I first heard of Way of the Master but apparently it's a common Christian defense tool. One argument's he has used for years is that he's never seen George Bush but he knows that he's real. I told him there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that Bush is real and quite a lot of people who can confirm it, but he told me that it's the same deal with Jesus and that there are people who saw Jesus and then wrote everything he did in the bible. And then talked about how since there wasn't any kind of electronics in those days and the people had to use what they had and that was write everything down and then spread it around. And he mentions Josephus as well.Now I know there's a counter arguments to everything I just wrote above, especially since I've used those exact same arguments before...and that's where the agree to disagree thing comes in. Because while he can't prove to me that God exists, I can't really prove he doesn't.Another thing.....and I believe this is where his strong faith comes in...since I was a kid, he's told me a story about a friend of his who was in a car accident and claimed that Jesus came and spoke with him, and just before he died, he told my Father.I think that is what makes him so strong in his faith. Although his friend saw the white Jesus....and if Jesus was real...he wasn't a white man. Although my Father's argument is that he believed Jesus appeared to him in an image that his friend would be familiar with and would be a comfort to him since most Christians think Jesus is a long hair, bearded, handsome white man.I told him that it was probably all just a hallucination but he's pretty convinced it wasn't.Anyway, that's my short synopsis of the debate. We actually chatted about all this for a long time. Since is a subject we're both in to and we're both ramblers and he didn't change my mind and I don't think I changed his.I know I said before I brought my A game, but honestly I think it was just my B game. I think if I were to share with my family the facts about Jesus (or lack of) and even had more knowledge on evolution, I could probably destory em'...but I honestly don't want to make them question their faith if it makes them happy. After all, they're family and I don't want to see them hurt. They accept my new belief's and haven't tried to change me, so there's no reason for me to try and change them and I will accept what they believe as well.
Right. Just keep your hands off your sister.
You don't have to worry about that. We're not all into inbreeding like your parents were Nero.
My favorite version of this one is "If you were walking through a forest and saw a computer, would you think it was made by someone or happened by random chance?"
Almost makes either claim seem irrelevant to everyday life doesn't it?
Have you or your father seen Contact with Jodie Foster?
What other facts are there about Jesus, aside from being crucified (which is not really saying much since the Romans crucified everyone that toook too much gloy away from Rome), can be verified by other sources?
" Why does God always got such wacky shit to say? . . . When was the last time you heard somebody say 'look God told me to get a muffin and a cup tea and cool out man'?" - Dov Davidoff