open minded catholic (Moved from Rational Response Squad forum)

teresaclaire
Theist
Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-07-06
User is offlineOffline
open minded catholic (Moved from Rational Response Squad forum)

i'm fairly certain every member of this site is going to tear anything i say completely apart, and if that didn't happen i'd be shocked. i have been raised a charismatic catholic but throughout my life have been taught to listen to other's beliefs or disbeliefs, and no matter what they believed or did not believe, i should show them love. why was i taught to love? because as my parents (and i) believe the greatest lesson of christianity is to "love one another as i have loved you".
so tonight i spent several hours speaking to one of the founding members of this website and honestly i thought he would try to convert me. but instead we had a discussion in which i was told i'm "not fun to debate". i do not take my religion at face value. instead i have searched the basic tenets of my faith and discovered that the reasons most (not all) atheists have issues with theists is because they do not look into the reasons behind their faith. i see faith as completely irrational. i accept that there is no indisputable proof behind my beliefs. instead i see the effects of my beliefs. i try (as much as i can i am no where near perfect) to be an example of what i believe jesus to be. i believe that jesus acted out of love and hoped that his display of love would encourage others to do the same. i believe that if i show the same love i have learned from the teachings of jesus (whether or not he existed as my atheist mentor tried to explain this evening) maybe someone else will feel that love and pass it on. maybe they or someone down the line will continue this love and somehow in small ways that love will eventually touch the whole world. am i ridiculously optimistic? yes. i know this and i accept it. but it does not make me want to give up it only makes me what to try harder.


Larty
Larty's picture
Posts: 145
Joined: 2007-05-25
User is offlineOffline
You accepted that you are

You accepted that you are ridiculously optimistic. Yet you said you don't want to change and give up your faith. That is not very rational, I tell you. You are not stupid, you said that there is no proof behind any of your beliefs, and you seemed to understand that. You understand that you are being naiively optimistic, yet there is something in you that does not want you to change.

You know that your faith is very irrational, so tell me then: Why don't you want to give it up? Is it that you don't want to? I find it rather strange that you think your faith is irrational, yet you still believe in it. That is called blind faith. You seemed to have applied rational thought to your faith, but you haven't applied it to your own actions.

You also said that you want to show people love, so that they would continue to show that love to others. I don't have anything against that, but if it bothers you somehow, then quit with it.

Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.


JCE
Bronze Member
JCE's picture
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2007-03-20
User is offlineOffline
Welcome, Teresaclaire! 

Welcome, Teresaclaire! 

You sounds like a very intelligent, reasonable person and I am looking forward to future posts from you.  Faith is a funny thing, isn't it?  You say that you live your life setting an example of what you believe Jesus to be.  I am sure you already realize how individual that statement sounds.  For example, another person could commit a horrendous act of violence and say exactly the same thing and have passages from the bible to support their actions and words.  You see, how you have chosen to interpret the bible and how another person would could be vastly different and you would both be right.  What it boils down to is that you are a basically good person and live your life accordingly.  It is possible to live your life as a good person and pass on your love for humanity without giving credit to Jesus or God.

Anyway, I am glad you are here and look forward to discussions with you. 

(On a side note, I noticed you started a blog by the same title.  This is not necessary since most people go to recent posts to view updated threads.)

 


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
Nice to meet you,

Nice to meet you, teresaclaire. 

teresaclaire wrote:
...i have searched the basic tenets of my faith and discovered that the reasons most (not all) atheists have issues with theists is because they do not look into the reasons behind their faith.

I speak as a former catholic (actually, as one who formerly held aspirations of becoming pope), whereupon I must respectfully disagree with your assessment.  I know full well the reasons for faith, and I found them unacceptable. 

 

teresaclaire wrote:

i see faith as completely irrational. i accept that there is no indisputable proof behind my beliefs.

Mind that this is a departure from catholic theology - apologists have tried for centuries to provide a rational groundwork for doctrine - observe the casuistic borrowing of Augustine and Aquinas from Greek philosophers to back up faith-based claims.

Search through the forum threads for "St. Michael", a self-styled defender of the faith who labored tirelessly (and unsuccessully) to demonstrate that catholicism was logically sound. 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
oi

oi Teresaclaire.

teresaclaire wrote:
i'm fairly certain every member of this site is going to tear anything i say completely apart

It is entirely possible but that depends on what sort of things you say and how you intend on supporting them.

Quote:
i have been raised a charismatic catholic but throughout my life have been taught to listen to other's beliefs or disbeliefs, and no matter what they believed or did not believe, i should show them love.

...contrary to the teachings of Judeo-Christianity. Where'd you pick up these beliefs?

Quote:
"love one another as i have loved you"

As JCE pointed out, that is VERY selective reading of the bloody horror that is religious gospel.

Quote:
i do not take my religion at face value...i see faith as completely irrational. i accept that there is no indisputable proof behind my beliefs.

Which I would commend you for but your effort seems to have no effect on your grasp of reality.

Quote:
...discovered that the reasons most (not all) atheists have issues with theists is because they do not look into the reasons behind their faith.

So far as I can tell, the reasons many atheists don't like theists (aside from the fact that theists believe in sky pixies) is due to the fact that they insist there is some reasonable / logical backing for believing in uber-wizards and zombies. If theists kept their madness to themselves and left public opinion and governmental policy alone there would be nothing to discuss. The reasons to dislike theists and religion as a whole are plentiful.

You seem like a nice enough person and I'm glad that you try and spread the ideals of acceptance and love. It's too bad that your vehicle to do so is gospel filled with vicious intolerance and insistance on belief (under pain of eternal torture) in imaginary uber-wizard zombies.


JCE
Bronze Member
JCE's picture
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2007-03-20
User is offlineOffline
zarathustra wrote: Search

zarathustra wrote:

Search through the forum threads for "St. Michael", a self-styled defender of the faith who labored tirelessly (and unsuccessully) to demonstrate that catholicism was logically sound.

I believe someone already made this observation, but St. Michael almost bored me into conversion.  What a drone!  The CIA could learn a lot in terms of torture techniques from that guy. 


Larty
Larty's picture
Posts: 145
Joined: 2007-05-25
User is offlineOffline
Indeed. The bible is

Indeed. The bible is seriously misunderstood. There is actually very little good stuff in it, but that doesn't save it from being one of the most violent, discriminating, absurd, hateful and misunderstood books of all time.

More about the bible here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ 

Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.