Bashed by believers
Offline I was on a site where a lot of so called "diverse" gay folks hang out. Being gay myself I felt among friends. That was....until I started voicing my opinion about being an atheist. I ranted on about the absurdity of talking donkies and other ridiculous bullshit in the Bible. Then's when all hell broke loose.
"You jackass!!" One guy wrote. "You should apologize to us gay Christians on this group! This is a diverse group of people and you have no right to insult us like that!" I was called childish and disrespectful and one guy demanded an apology and that I needed to ask for forgiveness. What the fuck????
This was the first time I voiced my non-believer opinion outside of an atheists fourm and was stunned by the reply.
What's up with these believers? Why do they get so vicious when their faith is questioned? They get downright hateful. Seems to me that there's a hell of a lot of fear or paranoia going on.
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Several of high ranking memebers of Hitler's cabinet were atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur_von_Schirach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Axmann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bormann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
Compare the number of Muslims that denounce Muslim extremism to the number of Nazis that denounced Nazism.
No it's not. We would have terrorist attacks left right and centre if Christians were facist
EDIT: Regardless, I said christians are comparable to Nazis in many ways, not that christians ARE nazis.
I thought he was refering to Chrisitans.
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Offline http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/8381
I created another topic so we don't hijack this thread. I respond there.
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It is unfortunate that sometimes gay Christians need to prove themselves to the Christian community because it is so widely assumed that gays don't belong in church. Nothing says "I belong" like being equally intolerant. Sorry that happened though... that sucks.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
That's pretty odd. If the group is as diverse as they try to appear, they would accept atheism as another thing to be "diverse" about.
It's interesting that you were called names by the "gay xians" instead of starting a good discussion.
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The Bible says, "If a man lies with a man, as one lies with a woman, both of them have comitted a detestable act. They must be put to death." - Leviticus 18:12
Yet, "God loves us."
Like the Nazis loved the Jews.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
I'll never understand how a person can belong to any group that condemns them, but that's just me.
Did you ask them what is was you said that offended them in the first place? I'm not certain of what you wrote and perhaps it came off as a mockery of their religion. I'm rather curious as to what you wrote.
That being said, you're more than entitled to your opinion and if you feel that you didn't say anything offensive, then I see no reason why an apology would be needed.
However, the fact that some guy told you that you need to ask forgiveness was just plain stupid on his part. Forgiveness from whom? God?
There is a time and a place for everything. While I would never hide the fact that I am atheist, I do tread carefully around people that I don't know well. Perhaps your rant was a bit harsher than you realized.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
He didnt agree with their religion,therefore its offensive.
Nonbelievers = offensive.
You can disagree with a person without being offending. Yes, I would say that a marjority of theists tend to get offended if you don't believe in a diety, but perhaps his 'rant' was not the way to go about expressing his disagreement. However, since I do not know what he said exactly, I cannot say either way whether the other people were justified in their offense.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Exactly! Did you quote that verse to them? I wanna hear their respnses!
This is one of my pet peeves.
Stop comparing people to Nazis. Christians are not Nazis. Nazis are Nazis. Neo-Nazi groups are Nazis.
See the difference?
I don't know anything about these people you talked to, but if you were "ranting" and talking about the "bullshit" they hold dear, how are they unjustified in calling you a jackass? If you're so sure you weren't rude and disrespectful, then perhaps you should post a log of some of the conversation.
No.
I'm rather tired of people bitching about Nazi analogies (Godwin's Law! Godwin's Law!) when such analogies are sometimes appropriate. Yeah, it can be overdone, BUT:
1. The Nazis persecuted gay people and killed them.
2. The Bible recommends persecuting gay people and killing them.
See a correlation? I certainly do.
While our society's Jews, Christians and Muslims are not allowed to put gay people to death, Muslim countries under sharia law are under no such compunction and the analogy is especially apt. I doubt we will slide that far into fascism in the near future, but if fundies finish taking over the country, it isn't entirely out of the question.
A thousand years ago, the Muslim world was on the cutting edgeof astronomy, mathematics and science, then a 12th century Imam named Hamid al-Ghazali started equating mathematics with satan. (As a fundy, I was raised to equate "reason" with the devil.) The Muslim world has never recovered and it is fascist (a Nazi by any other name...). The same thing could, under the right circumstances, happen in the United States.
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Funny how such a perfect being made it possible for one to put their fun parts in more than one orafice.
"I made the universe "POOF", but cant stop backdoor action".
Being hetero myself I'd get board out of my mind if I was stuck with one position. I dont know why gays shouldnt have fun with sex. I think that gay's bis and heteros should have sex education and and wrap it and know your partner.
But for gay Christians to cry foul is absurd and hypocritical. You'd think out of all the minorities that they would be a bit more understanding.
I can remember a black man standing outside a laundromat shouting at me about my atheist bumperstickers on my vehical. What a hypocritical prick. The guy was old enough to remember segregation.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I just saw a story on CNN about Americans giving 300 billion to charity. 92 billion went to religious charities. If we are to assume that that majority came from private donations PLEASE TELL ME WHY THEY NEED GOVERNMENT TO PROP UP THEIR CHURCHES?
92 BILLION and you still need government to pilpher my wallet to pay for your religion?
In addition orginazations like the Boy Scouts who recieve public funding are still alowed to kick out gays and atheists.
The Constitution is still in tact and we still have the oportunity to fight this. But there is no doubt that their is a rise in pandering to Christianity on both the left and right.
People dont understand the history of goverment and religion mixing and are complacent in saying, "That cant happen here". They might be correct in our current state, but unless watchdogs exist to combat this mixing of the two, it will not stay that way.
I do see two different competing forms of facisim. On the left I see Christianity trying to create a Christian version of "Big Brother". Sure, the state takes care of you, but Jesus is protected the most.
On the right, Jesus favors the rich while everyone else keeps sliding down the ecomic scale. Personally I find both these directions facist and distructive.
CNN and Fox and MSNBC are all pandering to Christianity and this convergance with presidental canidates trying to replicate Bush's success in sucking up to Christianity, I see this as a very negitive and distructive trend to diversity, individuality and "Pluribus Unum".
I take every oportunity when I can to remind ALL people who are citizens that do not hold the label "Christian", no matter what their label is, to demand from politicians and media more diverse coverage and expand the free market of ideas insted of simply pandering.
Atheists are not the center of the universe, but neither are Christians, Jews or Muslims. The Constitution has not been completely shredded, but it seems both the left and right want to do just that.
If you dont like gay marriage, then dont marry someone of the same sex. If you dont want a gun, dont own one. If you want to give to charity, give to a private charity. If you dont want an abortion, dont have one.
These same Christians on the left and right would not want to live under laws torn out of the Quran hypocriticaly want America's laws to be ripped out of the bible.
Christianity is just as capable of facism and barbarity as Islam in the east is today. "Honor" killings still exist in third world Christian countrys but are severely under reported.
Christianity did not invent modern government. The age of inlightenment was a break away from religious rule. It combined the greek and roman models with british common law. This unique idea prevents gays from being exicuted on the street. Today it prevents superstitious people from burning witches. It prevents religion from acting as law, but unfortunatly far too many people dont seem to understand that.
Any gay Christian who would condemn an atheist obviously has a short term memory.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien
I don't think I've ever met a gay Christian. The most theistic gay person I ever knew was called Kevin, he ran the drama group I used to go to as a young teenager. But he always said that he could never belong to a religion that was homophobic. He was one of those vague "there has to be something" theists.
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Unless you can show me concentration camps were Christians execute gays in gas chambers, then I don't think you should compare Christians to Nazis.
And I would compare the Muslim extremist states as facists. All members of the Nazi party supported Hitler. Not all Muslims support the extremist facist states.
It's like saying all communist states are like Stalin's Soviet Russia. Stalin's regime was a form of commuism. Hitler's Nazi party was a form of fascisim.
I'm not Christian. But that doesn't mean the I think Christians are Nazis.
Neither am I and neither do I.
Perhaps I misread the original comment, but I took it to be more like apples are to oranges as green beans are to brussle sprouts. Christians love homosexuals in the same way the Nazi's loved the Jews (and anyone who did not agree with them). It was not the analogy that I would have used and, like I said maybe I misread it, but I didn't think it implied Christians were Nazis.
Anyhoo...I suppose part of the allure of homosexuals belonging to a church/religious group is the acceptance issue.
Here's what I posted in the fourm about Christianity vs atheism to a statement that said:
"Not all Christians adhere to beliefs that stubbornly conflict with science and the entire observavle world."
My reply:
Yes they do. Christianity is a belief that a man died and then three days later got up and walked around. That conflicts with science.
I'm saying that all religion conflicts with science. Religions are based on child-like stories. I say "child-like" because that's exactly what they are. Talking animals and magic wands and ghosts flying through the air. How is that any different from reindeer flying through the air? It's not.
In the Bible there's a talking donkey.
In "Little Red Riding Hood" there's a talking wolf.
Muhammad flys to heaven on a winged horse.
Mary Poppins flys to London with an umbrella.
Joseph Smith owned a pair of magical glasses.
Dorthy owned a pair of magical slippers.
We have a man right now who is running for the president of the United States. He is a Mormon. The Mormon religion is based on a book that says that Joseph Smith found a pair of magical glasses with lens made of diamonds that he used to read unknown scripture written on gold leaves.
Magical glasses?
I think we have the right to ask a presidential candidate this question, "Do you believe in magical glasses?" If he's a true Mormon, his answer has to be yes.
So the question is, do we elect a man for the top office of the most powerful country on earth who believes in magical glasses?
My Christian fundamentalist buddy believes that soon Jesus will fly down to earth on a silver cloud and all the dead Christians will rise from their graves and fly up to meet him in the sky.
Flying zombies?
Talking donkeys?
Magical glasses?
Even a caveman would say, "That's just silly!"
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
This thread reminds me of a song.
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. ..." -- Thomas Jefferson
Hey watch your mouth, the Anti Defimation Assocciation of CaveMen or "ADAM" has been going after Geico over this sort of thing for their bigoted commercials. Sure you can save 15% on your car insurance, but you'd be bashing cavemen. We dont want cavemen boycotting this site.
(Legal disclaimer: This post may not relfect the views of the site owners or other forum members. Any resemblance to actuall persons or "cavemen" is purely coincedental. We have tried to reach the gecko for comment over his bigoted remarks regarding cavemen, but then we realized, just like ghosts knocking up girls, this too was pure fiction used to sell a product)
We now return you to your regularly schedualed thread already in progress.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
You don't need to tell me about cavemen. I used to date a caveman. Nice guy. But I had to end it when he kept drawing pictures of mammoths and stick figures with spears on my livingroom wall.
I still got the rock he gave me for Christmas.
RickRebel
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
Eh, I can sort of see why someone would be offended. While this sort of post would be perfectly acceptable in a forum such as this, the tone of your post isn't exactly friendly.
I know many will say that there is no reason to be polite about these sorts of things but I tend to find that diplomacy gets a point across better mockery.
That being said, people can demand an apology until they are blue in the face. If you feel that you weren't being insulting than there would be no reason to apologize.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Look at my blog! It's awesome!
I'm also on this Twitter thing
Several of high ranking memebers of Hitler's cabinet were atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur_von_Schirach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Axmann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bormann
Compare the number of Muslims that denounce Muslim extremism to the number of Nazis that denounced Nazism.
No it's not. We would have terrorist attacks left right and centre if Christians were facist
I thought he was refering to Chrisitans.