New guy here from the buckle of the bible belt.
Offline I have been a member for about 19 weeks an love reading the forums. It is very frustrating at times living here in Missouri and I even live in one of the more liberal parts (St. Louis). I am pretty open about my atheism and am not afraid to admit my non-belief in the magic guy in the sky.
I enjoy debating with theists knowing full well many people I encounter are incapable of thinking rationally but I still like the discussions especially when I can get them to look at some of their beliefs in a different light. There is one huge frustrating issue for me at times. My place of employment is mostly Christian as is the rest of our nation, and there is one guy who I encounter daily that is studying to be a preacher. He is well aware of my non-belief because we have had many atheist/theist discussions over current events such as stem cell research or civil liberties. Usually when this guy is proven wrong or cannot formulate a rebuttal to a point he recites a little prayer to himself and walks away (great debate tactics huh?). Lately this guy has resorted to telling me every time we run into each other that he sees a big change coming in my life and that deep down I am really a believer but I am afraid to make the change. I tell him in response that I see no change in him EVER coming because he refuses to look at things without jesus goggles on.
So here is the issue, other employees have noticed our debates. When I voice how I don't need to here him every day telling me I am headed for a change I am told I should leave HIM alone because he is just trying to help me and he is a good person. If I came in every day and proselytized Atheism to him and told him he is crazy for believing in magic no one would say I was trying to help him. I am sure eventually it would be brought to human resources attention and I would be out the door for harassment.
Proselytizing jesus is harassment also!!!!
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Welcome to the forum ( I see that this is your second post) I empathize with you. It must be quite frightening to be an atheist in the Bible belt, in the same sense that it would be frightening to burn a Qur'an in Saudi Arabia.
As a Canadian living in China, a country which is 93% atheist, I sometimes forget how persectuted we are in the USA.
Does this preacher really mutter a little prayer and walk away when he loses an argument? If only most of the theists on this site were so admitting of defeat when they lost! you'll soon find that reasoning with some of them is like trying to bleed a rock.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
I guess the best thing I can tell you is beat him to the punch. Tell HR that you feel harrassed by his insistant and unending proselytizing. That is, of course, if you think they'll listen. Or just confront him directly about it, in a non-aggressive manner kindly ask him to stop. It may take a few tries, but it may work. Another option would to just not acknowledge him unless he has an honest conversation or debate for you. You may have to ignore him altogether, and he may see that after a while your just not interested in his offer of "salvation". These are the best suggestions I can come up with. Hope they help or at least get you headed in the right direction.
The darkness of godlessness lets wisdom shine.
Deluded god beat me to the punch! lol I was still typing my post when he posted his, and I totally agree with his "bleeding a rock" analogy! lol
The darkness of godlessness lets wisdom shine.
The next time it happens you may have to tell your co-worker that the work environment is not the place for theological discussion. (e.g. They're paying you to work, not debate religion.)
You may need to refuse to allow this person to drag you into these conversations. If this person persists, you have a leg to stand on for harrassment. (Keep written notes as to when and where the problems arose and what was said so you have proof.)
When it comes to a paycheck, many times it's simply best to avoid the confrontation entirely.
I understand completely. I'm also in Missouri, just the other side of the state.
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Thanks for all your input! I think the issue for me is more the bias involved. I can handle myself and tell this guy where to go, that is not the issue. I just get frustrated that his hate speech of "you're going to hell" or that "You will be a good person once you accept christ" is acceptable but if I were to use similar speech it would be harassement.
On a side note, it is really cool that everyone here is helpful and this a place to go to discuss things that frustrate us all.
Okay, so he happened to make some more comments again today. He was talking to another co-worker today who is a friend of mine. This friend of mine is also an atheist but sometimes likes to play "devil's advocate" and portray himself as being on the theists side. He does this just get the theist riled up about me. Well the comments started again that he sees "a big change" coming for me, and when I turn myself over to his imaginary friend I will be a good guy.
I sat there silent, ignoring him for a few minutes while they talked, but I got sick of it. I looked at him and said, "I see a big change coming for you also..... hopefully one day in the future you will start using your brain and then you will be a good person".
Too much anger???
I sat there silent, ignoring him for a few minutes while they talked, but I got sick of it. I looked at him and said, "I see a big change coming for you also..... hopefully one day in the future you will start using your brain and then you will be a good person".
Too much anger???
No. really, we can discuss "people's feelings" and "proselytizing versus insulting" but the long and short is no, not too much anger.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Got a tape recorder??
BGH - I feel for you man. I live in a town of less than 10,00 in West Virginia. I deal with the crazy xtians on a daily basis. I even have a tattoo artist in my shop that is a pentecostal minister.
I have physical altercations bi-monthly because I'm open about my atheism.
It would probably be more if I wasn't as intimidating looking
My wife and I have talked frequently about selling my stake in the tattoo shop and leaving town.
Where's a good town for Atheists on the US east cost?
I am ceratainly NOT leaving my job because of this twit. I also do want to come across as the angry atheist if I am trying to convince people that my posistion may be the right one.
How about asking the preacher man if his sermonizing has helped the company's bottom line at all? If not, then perhaps he should focus more on doing his job duties (which I don't imagine include bible-thumping).
There are no theists on operating tables.
"Preacher Man" works in the same lab as I do but his duties are of a custodial nature.
He is constantly singing gospel but most of the time I block him out while listening to podcasts on my ipod. Usually the irritation only builds when he makes direct comments about the "change" he sees in me and that I will be "a strong force for the lord" when I do change. I think this mostly has to do with the fact that I know the bible better than him and he is a preacher. I found out through one of our discussions he has never read the book all the way through. I told him he read it and get back to me, his response was to get some kind of book where you read a passage a day for a year. He claimed he didn't have time to read the whole thing, I told him that book is his life, he owes it to himself to read it.
We have had discussions in the past and in typical fashion he walks away when he is unable to refute an arguement. I realized that there is no point in trying to speak rationally to him and most days a cordial "hello" is all he gets.
Man it seem like you are going about this like the guy is sane. The guy might be a nut case and his fixation may be god, you, or whatever. Don't play into his fantasy and maybe he will loose intrest. Just stop talking to him if you can. If he comes over just keep working. Treat him like a non entity. Maybe he will freak out and try to beat god into you and then you can cash in on the lawsuit because you employer allowed it to happen.
Then again, maybe you should just smile and headbutt him back to the second grade. I have had that work also.
TheGrapeOfWrath.
I used to work at a small law firm where pretty much everyone was a lot older than me and they were all very religious (not to mention horrible bigots and anti-semites). At one point I was living in a house with 2 girls and 4 guys (mind you, this was a strictly co-ed situation and they knew it. I was single at the time and they paid me shit, so I needed a cheap place). Thing was, everytime I mentioned anything about my apartment (i.e. - Sorry I was late, Matt parked behind me and he wasn't home so I couldn't get my car out of the driveway...) one lady would storm out of the room. She eventually complained to the boss that I was offending her and I was requested to keep my 'lifestyle' to myself. Now, I was never very vocal about my atheism but everyone knew I didn't go to church. After awhile, I just kind of learned to ignore their god talk. If they were spewing in the kitchen, I'd just turn around and leave. If it was directed at me, I would just stare blankly at them and quickly change the subject. It worked. It might not be the best way to handle the situation but I needed the job at the time and I couldn't afford blowing my top over someone else's annoying preaching. I knew I was outnumbered so I just figured that was all I could do. After a while, it didn't even bother me, I just learned to tune them out. Again, maybe not the best thing but... phew, sorry, that was a bit long winded.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I actually don't think that's fair. I think it should be more about them "turning off" than us "tuning out". I understand that you needed the job and it was likely in your best short-term interests not to rock the boat. She gets to storm out of the room and complain about the most oblique reference to your "lifestyle", but you have to listen placidly to their (irrational) preaching? What kind of B.S. is that?
If anyone is offended on religious grounds by working alongside atheists (or anyone not in line with their own beliefs), perhaps they should seek work inside their religious organization -- or just pray to god to send them a paycheck every week.
BGH - might be interesting to start quoting Das Kapital to your friend, and talk about the change you see in him when the Bolshevik revolution occurs.
I don't actually recommend you do that -- probably wouldn't look good when you're up for review. But would certainly be interesting...
There are no theists on operating tables.
You're absolutely right, it wasn't fair. It was very hard to do, as well. Thankfully now I work in a huge corporation where no one even knows my name, much less my religious non-beliefs. The problem arises when someone works in a smaller company, which usually doesn't have an HR and can kind of get away with that sort of thing.
And I wish I had thought to tell them they could pray to god for a paycheck!!
If god takes life he's an indian giver
You are very correct and that sums up how I feel about his prostyltizing. If a religionist gets offended by another's lifestyle, because 85% of this nation believe in that same god there are many allies to jump to his aid. But an athiest is bothered by preaching and he is a complainer.
It is exactly that, B.S.!