InfidelGuy.com, What Happened?
Offline I have been an IG member for over 2 years, paid a good $25 a month to show my support. Being a gold member to me was more about supporting IG and all that Reggie does than the content available(which is nice). I took a few months off from the site due to starting a new job and personal stuff. When I returned to IG I found things radically different and shortly thereafter received a mass email from Reggie detailing the changes IG is going through. However it seems things are on the decline, Reggie is swamped and needs help, I just read today he won't be able to pay his rent this month. I am wondering what the future holds for the site.
I still pay my monthly cost but I am not receiving anything from it really and I am close to cancelling my membership. However I know if I do that it will be just another nail in the coffin for IG, so I'm in a bit of a bind. One thing I also noticed was alot of forum regulars left, I used to enjoy reading alot of their post but now find it kind of sparse. Can anyone shed light on what has transpired to lead IG towards this path? Because one moment things looked pretty well and now everything seems to be degrading rapidly. Was this site started as a response to the state of IG?
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I wrote a post on 'atheist forums' about this, look for it. After posting some indirect comments, I was attacked by a mod for not coming out and saying everything, and basically ordered to 'say what's on your mind'... knowing full well that I'd be attacked for it.
And I was... I was told that my complaint over what happend - the site being destroyed because of reggie's meltdown - was just the words of someone with a gripe against the site. I was told that the ONLY real reason that posting is down is because...
because.... drumroll please....
Of the new format for the site. That's the reason hundreds of people left... in the minds of the mods there... because of a format change.
As long as they are that dishonest with themselves, I can't see how the site will get back on it's feet. You can't just change a brand name like infidelguy into something as utterly generic as 'debate haven' and expect people to hang around. We didn't come for something that bland and non commital... Reggie made a bunch of snap decisions that basically ruined the site.
I think he should reclaim infidelguy and get it back up... he spent his life building it up, tossing it away makes no sense. Trying to start from scratch takes time, perhaps years....
Both gregfl and I, along with many others, have gone through the same thing you have. Others have as well, but no one is talking about it. Glad to see someone say it out loud here.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
The site seemed to be in trouble before the big switch. Several of the main posters (yourself included) either left or only input a few comments here and there, so the content and traffic took a nose dive. I think the switch to atheistforums.com was just the nail in the coffin.
I found the thread and read it through and I couldn't agree more with you and Gregfl. I feel alot like greg does in regards to paying for a product that is not being delivered but there is no time table on when or if it ever will. I also can somewhat empathize with those protecting reggie and supporting him out of emotional grounds, they are after all friends with him and feel indebted to him in some fashion. However I think for many of us who respect Reggie and appreciate the service he provided and are still paying customers deserve to be treated better. I think this is bad business, it seems ill planned and irrational which is most certainly going to end up in three fold the loss in customers.
I don't like the way the sites have been split off, including the removal of IG.com , though I heard it will be back as a personal blog. I think what Reggie has done is spread himself out way too much and added alot more work for himself. IG was already established, I agree with you that he should of improved it, not demolished it. In the meantime everything is in a state of flux.
I'm glad I got some answers because it seemed like a subject people would not touch on debate hour. I initially thought that this site was a competing site, considering that they are similar in nature. But I also read that this site does not intend to be a community hub but rather just another resource. So I wonder now what is going to happen to the community? Are people going to go on IIDB and move on.
It was, and perhaps change was called for. But when Coke wanted to revamp it's product, it didn't toss away the name "coke' and call itself 'Generic soda, the soda everyone likes a little bit". Reggie spent years building up both a brand name and a group of regulars, and his actions alienated his regular crowd of listeners.
My reasons for leaving had nothing to do (directly) with reggie.... and more to do with wanting to relocate to this site.
But why did most of them leave, en masse? That's the question. I see no reason for people to leave. I think that they feel that the 'site is gone'.
The fact that the mods there are practice in repeating the mantra 'it's the format change' is not a good sign.
Yes. Now they have an output that is nearly as bad as tweb.... and that's pathetic....
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
I'm glad to see that others see the same problem. Not only is there a problem with the site, there isn't even an ability to talk about the problem. Those who point out the problem will be shouted down, because the criticism is seen as an attack.
Yet the point of the criticism is to help the site. If I really didn't like reggie or the site, I wouldn't have commented at all. In fact, if I posted at all, I'd just post a "ha ha!"
Their response to our comments actually makes things worse, not better: Gregfl was a regular paying member, now he is not. He would rather be one, and could be one, if the problems were addressed. Instead, he was attacked.
Yes. That's the problem. Everyone can empathize with a friend suffering personal problems, but at the same time, as a friend, you don't sit by and watch your friend tear his life apart over his brief depression. I recall a friend of mine being very hurt when his girl left (she was having an affair), and he was depressed to the point that he was just going to walk away from his place and leave all his possesions behind. I kicked him in the ass, drove him to his place, and made him grab up all his expensive items before the jackals in the girl's family stole too many of them to make it depressing..... (which they almost did) In short, while I empathized with his hurt, I didn't stand by and watch him destroy his own life because of a brief period of depression driven irrationality....
I see this situation with reggie the same way - those who sit by and watch him ruin his brand name aren't really being friends.... they are joining with his pathology, not his healthy side. Reggie is being too sensitive and people are tip toeing around it rather than expecting him to handle his problems like he can - like a man.
Silly idea, as listening to reggie rant over his hurts will just drive even more people away.... IG should be a site... and the funny thing is that IG himslf is not all that vital to the site....... what mattered was the community he created.
Of course, he has a right to have the site anymore if he does not want to, but he should also understand that by quitting the site, he's tossing away his most valuable asset - his brand name. And that trying to start over will be hard.
Yes. He's starting over when it's utterly unnecessary. I really don't understand why everyone is so entranced with making 25 sites, this site does it too..... what's the point of spreading everyone over a bunch of sites?
Agreed.
I feel that this site will become the community.... not sure why Sapient doesn't want it to be... I hope he's just being coy.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
My next two posts are mostly just facts to help shed some more knowledge on the situation.
When we decided to start a radio show, I asked Reggie if he would make a forum for all of the shows on Freethoughtmedia.com. My idea was that all shows have an individual forum, Reggie thought it would be too bulky so I was forced to start this site. We were never made to compete and viewed our site initially as simply a place where our listeners could dialogue about the topics of our shows and suggest guests and so on without having to clog Reggies board, and making it easier to keep tabs on RRS specific activities. You should know that over the years I don't know of anyone who has volunteered as much time as I have to helping to grow Reggies site and atheistnetwork.com. I don't compete with them, in fact I really don't compete with anyone, I think each site for atheism online plays a vital role.
Yellow #5 wants us to try and replace some of the community that is lost with IG, and I await ideas from him. We've had free blogs for all users since day one, and we have a wide variety of forums including a general convo forum for when posts don't fit elsewhere. In that way we already have the foundation of what is needed for community and are fine with letting that happen. I think to some degree you can't choose if you become a community. If thousands of people start posting here and I say this place isn't for community, wouldn't it still in some sense be a community, no matter what my vision is?
I am receptive to the idea that this will be a community. I just hope the atheists who don't engage in activism are likely to be severely outnumbered by those who do.
The IIDB forums are horrible. One of their board members (Janice) is a good friend of mine who will see this (as she posts here) and she knows my views on this. Their rules are too restrictive. Way too restrictive. I couldn't be less a fan of such a large site. I really don't feel like extrapolating as I'd like to let the users decide for themselves without me engaging in such negative vocalizations of a site that admittedly plays an important role, however I think they........... (fill in words I don't want to say out loud).
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Just to spread some light....
I'm not entranced with making multiple sites, however Doubledoh (the guy who hosts all of this) likes doing that. I'm not totally sure why, however there are some search engine advantages and general focus advantages. We don't have a forum on every site. www.Asktheatheist.com and the new www.theblasphemychallenge.com do not have forums.
I was actually just thinking last night how I'd like to see everything housed under rationalresponders.com roof and all of the forums shared amongst our communities. To some degree I am at the whim of those willing to offer us free help to make it all happen and limited to their capabilities and knowledge of programming and coding.
I'm constantly looking at ways to make this place better and I can assure that we will never attempt to make it better by removing the best thing we have... Kelly... I mean the Rational Response Squad name.
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Yes!
For a long time, I've wondered why there is a 'portal' where several sites are listed, including this one. And where everyone's was able to post in any thread (like the RR sites feature now...)
If possible, it would be nice if there were a list of recent posts for each site. Or one master list....
Then a person could sign in, and post in RR, debate haven, even a christian site if you wanted.....
I'm not sure how hard it would be to do, but I'd love to see it.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
Very hard. Most of the programming work is very time consuming and the people who help do it because it is their way of staying active and furthering progress, but they all have real jobs that take precedence. Some times I go two weeks without conversing with any of them.
I just wanted to add to the mix a statement. This website and our activists have worked their ass off to bring an entirely new group of people to our community (I consider that atheistnetwork, IG, and my site). We have worked tirelessly (literally) to bring new people on board instead of just splitting IG users off into our own domain. You can see this on our myspace profile in which we add friends like it's going out of style seeking other atheists. Our myspace site has over 21,000 friends which represents a larger number than the AtheistNetwork and Infidel Guy sites combined which is evidence that we've gone out on our own to bring new people on board.
I've always known that there were millions of people out there that agreed with us, it's just a matter of finding them. Instead of sponging off of the communities I helped build I stepped up my search of new people ten fold. I think this is important to note lest anyone think this community had anything to do with an IG downfall.
The myspace profile I speak of: http://www.myspace.com/rationalresponse
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Way too restrictive, and the IIDB Vbulletin Forum looks 2001. No videos, no signatures, no avatars,....boring.
Reggie should have dumped that bitch long time ago. For the rest of you this is a public service:
http://freethinkernation.com
A few months ago when I decided to get active with the atheist community, I had the HARDEST time finding where to go. I eventually settled on IG, but damn there are too many fragments out there. There really needs to be a consolidation of them. I predict the first site/organization to really do something that grabs the attention of the media will be able to herd the cats under one roof
The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...
I was wondering when this thread would appear.
I was waiting to see if they could raise IG from the dead and continued to pay my platinum membership, but after a rather mindless thread over on atheistwhatever.com, I decided to go ahead and quit. The thread got personal and viscious for no reason other than the 'supporters' of Reggie were offended that anyone would dare say the would quit, and/or figured that person must be angry/mad/pissed/ etc... and all attempts to bring it around, joke about the comments, and talk rationally about the problems were met with "poor Reggie" comments like "why are you kicking Reggie when he is down" and BULLSHIT like that.
I sent Reggie a nice note telling him when he got the show back on the road, I would consider rejoining. Reggie only sent me back a sarcastic comment. Notable was that I was a platinum member. Reggie then decided to have a complete meltdown over Todangst and I daring to voice our opinions. He has likely lost any chance of ever getting me back, and frankly his inability to pay his personal rent and other personal issues are none of my concern. Hell, all of us have gone thru major shit and bailed ourselves out, and Reggie will have to find his own way and run his business in a way that is productive. That isn't happening at the moment.
Anyway,
This was the thread...
http://www.atheistforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=612
Reggie meltdown #1,
"I'm tired of fucking talking about this.. I have too fucking much on my goddamned plate than to worry about freethinkers that can't deal with a little bit of change. What did you expect? Infidelguy.com was going to be around forever? No way..
I thought I explained why I did this well enough.
I'm all for suggestions but this deconstructive criticism is fucking pissing me off. It really makes me want to shut all of this shit down and say fuck it. 8 years of this shit and this is the thanks I get? Fuck you!!!
For those supporting me and for those that see a positive day ahead. Thanks. I really appreciate it.
Yeah.. here we go with the bitchin about my attitude. Watch. I'm the one that can't fucking say shit around here!! I'm tired of many of you beating me around like a fucking ball. I bust my ass for you all and yet all I get are fucking complaints.
I'm not coming back! Why should I? You'll just keep bad mouthing my efforts.
Yeah.. I said that."
.
.
and then Reggie meltdown #2, posted in his blog, in response to this thread....
I fucking Done
Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:12 pm
You know.. I'm tired of people that are supposed to be trying help me. Put me down and attack my efforts. Zero constructive criticism, all deconstructive criticism.
How much more can I stand?
I explained it in simple terms that the old forums were simply too hardline atheistic to match up with the new format change that was inevitably coming. The IG show was failing.. NOT getting stronger.. NOT getting better. The guests Laz was scheduling was boring my listeners and I started getting tons of cancellations.
I knew I had to appeal to a more general audience. You can only say the same shit over and over again for so long. It had to change or completely die.
The Infidel Guy is still here.. but I'm expanding. This has all been explained over and over again! Is no one fucking reading!!
I seriously for the first time thought about killing myself. I mean seriously... hardly no one appreciates me anymore... my wife is leaving me... I feel stifled by my own community as if I can't say what I want. I feel like I have no control over my destiny anymore. It's as if I'm just a fucking stretchy toy to be pulled and beat upon at will. But if I retaliate, I'm unprofessional and uncouth. Fuck you! I'm tired.. so fucking tired.
During my bouts of depression, I still managed to squeeze out 4 shows. But did anyone say,"Wow man.. good job! Considering what you're going through.. that's just outstanding." No.. not a fucking word. Just more complaining, bitching and whining about how "stupid I am" for splitting up the site. Like that's what I wanted to do!!! Fucking assholes. I mean really. Do these idiots, really believe this is what I wanted!!! Yeah.. I busted my ass for 8 years to the point where I can finally start giving back to the community that made me, just to tell them all.. "Fuckoff.. hee-hee.. yeah.. I'm going to piss you off now! Why? Cuz I have nothing better to do.. hee-hee."
Get real? Think! you so-called thinkers! Shit must have been really fucked up me to make this decision! Just because you can't see it...!! well that's your fucking problem.
I'm done. "
.
.
So basically, in response to two of his platinum members and well known forum participants questioning the demise of the website, we were told to fuckoff, and Reggie threatened suicide. He then said he really didn't mean it for the 'people in that thread'. Yeah, right. I almost believe that. I mean Reggie said it, it must be true..right? Heh.
Does anyone not realize that IG is a business, not a personality cult? Reggie's business won't survive surrounding himself with non-questioning followers and envoking his personal problems in response to questions by his customers.
Anyway, I have moved on. I hope to find some new friends here and hook up with some old ones.
I'm open to listening to his troubles and helping, even financially, but there's a difference between asking for help and asking for pity. I'm reminded of a line from The Godfather: "Be a man!"
I.e., once again, the mantra from the site is "it's only a format change'. The problem is with the customers. But blaming your customers is never a good business decision.
The reality is that reggie's decisions, whatever their worth or wisdom, led to the infidelguy community dwindling down to almost nothing. This is a fact. Whether or not it was a good idea remains to be seen. If he wants to rebuild the community, he'd be wise to reconsider his recent decisions. If he doesn't care, he can move on. Again: no one is demanding that he stay, all that is being noted here are the ramifications of his choices...
I don't see how any of this is a deconstructive personal attack.
Deconstructive criticism? Explaining the negative ramifications of tossing away the infidelguy site is 'deconstructive criticism'?.
The reality is that to reggie, any criticism at all is deconstructive, because when he hears criticism, he deconstructs.
Seriously, I know he can be open minded about himself, but he's pretty damned sensitive.
So... long term paying customers complain about the site being taken away, and the only response the owner can manage is a fuck you?
No one is ripping reggie, no one is attacking him. Long term members of the community are simply questioning what the hell is going on.
And enjoy the koolaid.
Actually, I've seen Reg bitch plenty of times, so I don't know where this is coming from.
Zero constructive criticism? He just wants to write everything off as a problem stemming from his customers.... I wish someone would advise the guy on how to handle this....
Suggestion: Then get the same exciting guests that you'd have on your new show, without tossing away the brand name, and the community you worked hard to create for 8 years. Be the 'infidelguy' and open up the show to other topics. I've been hoping for this for years.
Second suggestion: Also realize that if you don't want to try this idea, that your customers/listeners may not like your decision and may voice displeasure with it.
Everyone's read it. Now they are questioning it.
Then get some therapy. Take a vacation. Do something to help yourself.
I really have nothing else to say on this.... basically, everyone who doesn't like what happened to the site is being called an idiot. Now, I never studied customer satisfaction is business school, but I'm guessing this isn't part of the curriculum.
Yep.
Who did he mean it for then?
BINGO..... to help someone in reggie's situation is to get him away from pitying himself, get him away from his depression driven irrationality and to help him out.... Not to indulge the pathological side, but to help lift up the healthy side.
Nice to see you Greg.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
Sorry he's going through this. Depression sucks, but done? The infidelguy.com site was relaunched yesterday, yesterday being Dec 4th, 2006, and the site looks well designer with some CMS PHP-based software called Serendipity.
Five minute stats:
Debate Hour: has zero registered users, 6 guests
Atheist Network: 10 users online :: 2 Registered, 1 Hidden and 7 Guests
Atheist Forums: 7 users online :: 2 Registered, 1 Hidden and 4 Guests
I am taking notes of this, for my future Web design carrer. Like when having a bipolar episode, stay the fuck away from the server. When people are paying your bills by buying your services, customer service comes first. Yada, yada, yada....
http://freethinkernation.com
Reggie will have a hard time rebuilding the old community, I don't see myself returning to the site if the old forum is not returned, I cant help it but I liked the style of it and atheistforums isn't even close to what the old forum was, it has no soul so to speak.
I really think that this site could become the main hub for the old IG community. People seem to be satisfied with the work that the RRS are doing and people are donating money and buying shows. The main thing that I like with this site and the RRS squad is that there are more people in the show so it doesn't become as dependant on one person like infidelguy.com was.
One thing that I do not like about this site is the forums, The people are great but I just dont like the format of the forum, and I do think that this is keeping the site from becoming all that it can be.
I just noticed that I fell of the biggest donations list with my 50 dollars, way to go everyone!
Agreed. I'm not digging the software very much and the layout, but it gets the job done. I also agree that IG.com has really lost the feel of the community it once had. I almost feel tempted to start my own site in an attempt to rally the community to someplace. I do have the IT skills necessary and resources, however I don't know if I have the time needed.
I couldn't agree more. I am constantly trying to get with my programming geeks to make this forum what it should be. I think we're committed to the drupal framework at this point as I don't want to keep taking steps backward on efforts made on the site, and so we need to find a solution within the drupal framework.
I promise you revamping the forum has been on my list since the day we switched to this style. I am thinking long term on the overall RRS project and so I try not to be bothered by the months that have passed since I wanted them changed. I thought I made headway the other day when a helper sent me an IM and we talked for a few minutes, but I haven't heard back since.
I am more than willing to throw money at the project to create the best atheist forums on the internet, I just don't want to get ripped off by a firm that would charge $40 an hour for a 1000 hour job.
This was on the docket for a few brief moments and I got really excited, but my geek then insisted that for the $160 startup and $30 per year renewal he could do something better:
www.vbdrupal.org
I would love to have vbulletin!
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Exactly. Doubledoh (the guy who got us to at least a workable forum) says, "look do you want a place for people to discuss things, or do you want something they can hang on their wall?"
I always say, I want a discussion they can hang on their wall, but the fact is, the forum gets the job done.
Oh please don't. Please don't start your own. Please find an existing site you can get behind and volunteer your time. If that place is here and you think you can help us on our forum woes, we'd be proud recipients of your assistance. Here's a thread on IG where he's asking for help getting the new stuff going.
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Ditto.
What would you guys think about getting VBulletin? I'm willing to pay for a license it if you guys think it would be a good idea and the Squad is willing to implement it. I'm not sure it would be consistent with what they want to do with the site, and I'm not a programmer, so it's all I can offer.
After IG's infantile temper tantrum *oops*- I mean 'forum change', I won't be going back. I don't have time to read multiple forums and I want to support whoever has the best chance of bringing freethought to the masses. The RRS is the best shot we've got, and I'm hoping all the 'homeless' IG members find their way here and keep the momentum going. A decent forum would be a major part of keeping those people here, IMO. I'd hate to see them lost to IIDB.
"You are 'atheist' simply you are PSYCHO or IGNORANCE. That's why even youself feel like not EXIST on this world."
~Yahoo message board poster
If you're willing to put up the money for the first year I think I could get my programmer to agree to install it. As I said a few posts up, I wanted to buy it, but he said it was a waste of money, if I tell him I'm getting it for free, I don't think he'll have an excuse.
I was however looking forward to hearing what my designer proposed as an alternative to www.vbdrupal.org.
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What does a VBulletin board look like, if it isn't that expensive i might contribute to it also. I like to contribute when I know what the money is going to.
Bjxrn, Vbulletin is considered to be the best of the best, most people stay away from it because of the money.
http://www.vbdrupal.org/forum/ (you're looking at vbulletin within drupal on that page)
From www.Vbulletin.com
FWIW BJXRN: We are considering a new server just for our sites, at $200 per month, and have this list of expenditures from the past, at this point in time we are not break even with everyone at an income of zero: http://www.rationalresponders.com/why_we_need_your_help
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I just took a print screen if you want to use my tester account to see it in action visit me in stickam chat and ask me for login and password.
I really want an expanded text editor, and this looks good:
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Sapient, Why don't yo have a fund raiser for the funds for Vbulletin. If you do, I will pledge 100 bucks in advance towards the goal.
Just put up a block on the home page with a pay pal donation link. Once you do it, I will kick in, and I think others will as well.
I agree with Daveyboy (gasp!). This forum is the best chance we have to ressurect our community, Phoenix like, from the ashes.
Unlike other communities, I don't think there is a demand for 'followers'. If there is, or if the RR team members are going to melt down at any disagreement or accuse people of 'kicking them' whenever they don't agree with them, please notify me now so I can save time and energy and just go away now.
I just saw the "we need your help" link.
Sapient, lets talk about Vbulletin and other things the community can do to help. Why don't you start a thread asking for pledges? If you do, and include an upgrade to Vbulletin, I will pledge 100 bucks in the thread. Can you set up a pay-pal link for paymjent as well?
thanks.
Greg I really appreciate the offer, it seems as if raising vbulletin funds wont be too hard, I was prepared to call it an RRS expense and not need a fund raiser for it. I don't want to have to ask for big pledge drives unless really necessary, I really hate asking for money, but it's imperative we do.
If you want to help out big time, you could become a recurring $10 member which will get you links to download all of our shows, I point this out (in part) because just today Todangst brought it up and we realized he didn't even know we have monthly recurring payment options. So check out the top item on the list here: http://www.rationalresponders.com/purchase_shows
There is a small chance that I'll have a major fund drive if we need a new server and with that will come many advantages. The first and foremost will be that the site will operate much much faster. Additionally you may not know but the site has "broken" three times due to excessive traffic and it could happen again at any moment. We're thinking it will be happen during the War on Christmas publicity and could potentially happen several times this month if traffic on the network picks up. Servers are very expensive and an expense I never thought I'd need to consider. Our startup was about $10 per month to host the site, now were looking at about $200 per month for a server. It's that server that I'm considering raising funds for, but like everything we do here, (grass roots style) I am trying (and almost have) to acquire server usage for free or at least close to it. I'm exploring a few options.
As for the whining tirades... I assure you nobody on the RRS team will whine and cry over anything here. We've all got thick skin, and if I see any of them bitching overtly without good reason I'll give em a swift kick to the nuts myself. (and I'd hope one of my partners would return the favor if the shoe falls on the other foot) Keep in mind Yellow #5 has been out of a job for quite a few months, Rook has lost a job twice in the last three months, I've made a total of negative $1,500 or so this year on RRS, and Kelly got divorced in a fucked up nasty break up..... and for the most part I don't think anyone here really knows about it. It's always business as usual, full steam ahead, tearing down faithful dogma.
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Yeah, I'm glad you directed me to that option, and I am also interested in seeing the new format being discussed here..... hopeful a few more people will sign up as regulars, and then the cash will be there for the types of changes most of us would like to see!
- chris
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
Uhhh, I didn't even know that RRS even offered a monthly membership. Is this new? As far as donating, I'm down. Had to do some Christmas shopping this pay period, but I'll set a reminder on my Outlook to hook you guys up with another donation on the 14th.
Nope. Been there since about show 5. Sounds like I need to put it in the left hand column.
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You had me at "Kick to the nuts".
I just signed up for the ten bucks a month deal. I am now a proud gold member of RR.
Do I have to burn my christmas tree?
Burn that tree! Warm the house.
Could I get a RRS subscription by money order? No bank account, and I was fucked over by paypal two years ago. http://paypalsucks.com
http://freethinkernation.com
No, I didn't realize you were pagan.
Wife make you put it up?
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Well, I've said what I had to say mainly in private to Reggie and to mods at atheistforums/debatehaven/whatever it is today.
I don't wish to rehash it. Suffice it to say, some people don't handle honest concern and criticism well.
What concerns me, and what sapient brought up a while back is getting back a real sense of community. Activism is great, and necessary, but that's not everyone's bag. I think we ought to work on making our own forums a bit more user friendly and more conducive to simply shooting the shit.
There's a time and place for rabid debate with theists, and a time and place for like minded people to talk about movies, games, entertainment and news that isn't necessarily related to philosophy, theology, etc.
What makes a community though, IMO, is history, and Reggie killed that when he revamped his forums and archived everything. We have to rebuild that community somewhere, it may as well be here.
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
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Tell me about it. I stopped using PP, because someone got their hands on my information and drained my bank account. PayPal took their sweet ass time (3 weeks) to refund my money and I was in a horrible bind with all my bills. I signed back up recently, but only to donate to the Dawkins fund and I used a credit card instead. I thought about sending a money order to Brian too, but I figured I'd make it easier on everyone.
I responded but somehow lost the post.
My initial response basically was, I celebrate christmas because it makes the people around me happy and gives me an excuse to spend time with my family.
End of story.
As far as Paganism...don't they have hot chicks?
I use the excuse too but Christ isn't invited. And I finally managed to get the girlfriend to skip the Christmas decorations this year.
Yeah but they're not repressed enough. It's the Christian girls you really want to snag. I'm not speaking about talking philosophy of course.
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InfidelGuy.com, What Happened?
LakeGeorgeMan, "Gerbil" TroutXIII and Jackrabbit happened.
You wish, Trout. Nothing 'happened' to IG outside of IG. It was an implosion caused by lack of income and some other internal issues I don't want to discuss.
Sapient, I don't celebrate 'christ' either. If my family prays and all holds hands, I stand in silence out of respect but don't join the 'loop'. I don't put up Christ decorations.
I think maybe we are on the same page. Especially about that pagan/christian girl thing.
You could accomplish this by using TinyMCE, which is open source. A simple javascript declaration is all that is needed in most cases.
That sums it up for me.
I love it. I want it now. I can't wait.
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