UCLU Student Tasered by cops in library!

politicalhumanist
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UCLU Student Tasered by cops in library!

Well, I see a HUGE lawsuit and riot. Fucking cops, sometimes they can be cool, but other times complete assholes.

http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958

Quote:

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your ****ing abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

So, what do you think?

IMO, this is a complete abuse of power by the fucking LAPD cops. I don't buy the bullshit that he refused to leave after he was tazed. A tazer immobilizes you, that's the entire point of a tazer. Of course he couldn't leave, the cops sent 50,000 volts through him. Shocked


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That's horrible... no other

That's horrible... no other way to describe it.

Cops are just like any other group. Like you said, some are cool and some are assholes. If you give assholes power, they're not going to use it properly.

Even if the kid was in the wrong, I could see possibly tazing him once. At that point, it would be quite easy for the officers to restrain and arrest him. This was just a flagrent abuse of power. They were torturing the poor guy.


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Exactly. Police need to

Exactly. Police need to learn that pepper spray, tasers, etc are NOT to be used to torture people who simply don't comply, they are really to be used only 1 level below deadly force. There need to be some succesful lawsuits that bankrupt police departments/universities/towns in order for this to get through.

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Yet another university that

Yet another university that loses the chance to make some money off of my kids.

Let's see.

Penn State
Indiana University
Purdue University
Ball State
LSU
either Michigan
either Florida
any in Texas with the exception of Texas Tech if the boy can get a basketball scholarship
University of Virginia, Charlottesville
VCU (no offense to leftoflarry)
any in Tennessee unless the girls can get basketball scholarships and Pat Head Summitt is still coaching
and now
UCLA

Wow. We're fast running out of decent places.

Oh and before I get any responses about "Well, josh, this was an isolated incident."
I'd like to say that I compare bad incidences the same way as cockroaches. If you see one then there are definitely a lot more that you don't see.

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politicalhumanist
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MattShizzle wrote:Exactly.

MattShizzle wrote:
Exactly. Police need to learn that pepper spray, tasers, etc are NOT to be used to torture people who simply don't comply, they are really to be used only 1 level below deadly force. There need to be some succesful lawsuits that bankrupt police departments/universities/towns in order for this to get through.

An ex Microsoft employee is suing the City of Redmond, WA Police for $1,000,000, for tasing her when she was in diabetic shock.

I saw that video on the news, she was practically passed out and they tassed her.

I thought cops where like martial arts experts, ex military, and could handle themselves without tasers, guns, clubs, and stuff. Ever see like 10 cops to take down one guy?

Shit, I can beat down a fundie who tried to beat me up. I did not need a taser, gun, or anybody to help me.


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politicalhumanist wrote:I

politicalhumanist wrote:
I thought cops where like martial arts experts, ex military, and could handle themselves without tasers, guns, clubs, and stuff. Ever see like 10 cops to take down one guy?

I think there's a real shortage of good cops out there. Most major cities are forced to hire people that are less than qualified for the job. Too often, these people have had very little practical experience. Couple that with a god complex brought on by their new found power and you have a recipe for disaster.

There are plenty of qualified, decent cops out there... just not enough. It's the asses like the guys in this video that make them all look bad.


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One of my online friends did

One of my online friends did like a year in Rikers Island. He was arguing with his ex wife and the NYC cops came in and overreacted. Unfortunately for them he is a black belt - several of them wound up in the hospital. If they had acted properly nothing would have happened. I myself own several large knives, nunchaku, and shuriken. I have a machete coming. I also already have a katana.

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FundamentallyFlawed

FundamentallyFlawed wrote:
politicalhumanist wrote:
I thought cops where like martial arts experts, ex military, and could handle themselves without tasers, guns, clubs, and stuff. Ever see like 10 cops to take down one guy?

I think there's a real shortage of good cops out there. Most major cities are forced to hire people that are less than qualified for the job. Too often, these people have had very little practical experience. Couple that with a god complex brought on by their new found power and you have a recipe for disaster.

There are plenty of qualified, decent cops out there... just not enough. It's the asses like the guys in this video that make them all look bad.


Exactly. And some good cops criticized those who abused pepper spray before. A really good guy was police chief where I live - he left a couple years ago and went to that Blackwater and was training the Iraqi police.

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Here's a bit of credit where

Here's a bit of credit where credit is due...

A few years ago, my wife was waiting for a bus while coming home from class at night. Her purse was grabbed by a 16 year old kid who took off... fast.

Luckily, she found a cop car within one minute. The cop figured out which way the kid was heading and managed to cut him off with his car. He pulled his gun and shouted for the kid to feeze, to which the kid replied, "Go ahead... fuckin' shoot me!!!" and took off.

The cop jumped out of the car and ran after the kid, going through back yards and jumping fences (in the dark). He caught up with him, took him down, and cuffed him... without even hurting him.

This cop was in his 40's, and he was fit enough to outrun and overpower this young man. On top of that, he had the wisdom and quick thinking to handle the situation in an appropriate manner.

I don't think you'll find him tazering a kid in a library.


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Quote:I don't think you'll

Quote:
I don't think you'll find him tazering a kid in a library.

These cops did though. I think we need more of the story. These cops were fucking crazy in my opinion. The university needed to address this issue much quicker. If their campus security officers aren't enough to make a guy leave the library then.....

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Do things really got to get

Do things really got to get this bad? When are people going to stop taking this shit? There had to be at least ten people in that room. I just wish we could be strong enough to "stand up" (as the cop kept repeating) and over-power those tyrants. It makes me feel so helpless when I am witness to this sort of behavior. Like when I waited for a bus in San Diego downtown and watched two cops kick a mentally disturbed homeless guy around on the side walk. I think they were just bored or something. Everbody was upset by it but did NOTHING.


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Sequence of events: 1.

Sequence of events:

1. Student is in library after 11PM.
2. Police officers, following standard procedure, ask everyone for their IDs.
3. Student fails to provide an ID because he assumes he is being singled out due to his race.
4. Police tell him to get out.
5. He fails to comply.
6. Police taser him for failing to comply.
7. He continues resisting arrest, invoking repeated tasering.

I, for one, am glad that stupidity has finally wrought painful consequences.

Here is a thread on the tuckermax board in which a witness explains what occured: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

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Jawohl mein fuhrer! He

Jawohl mein fuhrer! He refuses to comply with orders, so he deserves continuous torture. You are right. So was Hitler. Dumb Moherfucker. Can you sing the Nazi songs?

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I call Bullshit! That

I call Bullshit!

That student should have had his ID. He didnt, and when called on it refused to leave.
It became enough for an issue for the city police to be called in. So now the cops get to deal with a spoiled rotten me me me punk

I think the cops handled this pathetic little situation correctly.

I noticed at the end when they were draging him out...punk was probably exaused from the tantrum (that would make a 2yo proud).

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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Sir, get out of the chair!!!

Sir, get out of the chair!!! Get out of the chair!! *BZZZZZZTT* Take a seat!

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MattShizzle wrote:Jawohl

MattShizzle wrote:
Jawohl mein fuhrer! He refuses to comply with orders, so he deserves continuous torture. You are right. So was Hitler. Dumb Moherfucker. Can you sing the Nazi songs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Smiling

The taser is a non-lethal device used to subdue dissenters. When someone with a taser (and legal authority) tells you to do something - especially after you're already on shaky ground - it's a smart idea to comply. I'm glad that this kid's stupidity in this case carried painful consequences.

As to whether or not the use of force was excessive, well, that's a different question.

Your irrationality and emotivism in this thread are noted.

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Sapient wrote:Sir, get out

Sapient wrote:
Sir, get out of the chair!!! Get out of the chair!! *BZZZZZZTT* Take a seat!

This and the library incident are two very different situations. While the second appears to be criminal activity by the officer, it is only a small piece of the story.

I do not think the officers in the library acted inappropriately.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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Quote:By this time the

Quote:
By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm

This is the point where the cops abuse their power. He was leaving. I understand what some of you are saying on here about not complying and deserving a taser. But this is not the case. According to the report above, he was going out. The video isn't shot from cops pulling him out of a chair but by the door. So it is difficult to know what really happened. I went to the message board that Insidium Profundis provided and read that most were not on the student's side. I would have gotten a better picture if there were other sides of the story. Not everyone felt that the taser was necessary and those people are referred to as whiny liberals.

Quote:
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

It is legal to ask this info but under the circumstances it may be necessary to wait until some of the excitement died down to approach him.

I don't know all the facts, but when I watch this and see some of the students standing around feeling helpless it makes me think of bigger things that happen and we can do nothing about it. ex. When I first saw an airplane dive into one of the Twin Towers on tv and another time when I saw the panic of the LA riots on tv. There are many examples, sadly- where people witness things and are helpless. I've had so many personal experiences of feeling helpless when someone with a gun or is just bigger and stronger than me.

In the end the cops got the guy out so why get upset if some people were disturbed by the cops actions. They are only acting out of their emotions. I think that it is natural that there would be some "whiny liberals" that cared about another human being. I wouldn't want that to happen to my children. I think it just showed some humanity.

I wasn't there. I don't know all the circumstances. Did he deserve it? If he wasn't leaving, sure. But according to the article, he was out the door. In that case, he surely did not deserve it.


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Insidium Profundis

Insidium Profundis wrote:

Here is a thread on the tuckermax board in which a witness explains what occured: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

For the record, I'm open to both sides of the situation here, I just wanted to point out that I don't trust the witness in that thread. He came off as having a bias and agenda, using terms like "pussy footed liberal" diminished his appeal as a credible source in my book.

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Sapient wrote:Insidium

Sapient wrote:
Insidium Profundis wrote:

Here is a thread on the tuckermax board in which a witness explains what occured: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

For the record, I'm open to both sides of the situation here, I just wanted to point out that I don't trust the witness in that thread. He came off as having a bias and agenda, using terms like "pussy footed liberal" diminished his appeal as a credible source in my book.


Have you really looked at the video? The student/suspect fit the description in my book. Had he cooperated, he probably would have been sent home with a police contact card and instructions to keep his student ID handy when using campus facilities.
Having responded to the call, the officers now must file a report of what happened. To do this they must interview all parties involved, including the student/suspect who obviously forgot he had a brain.

Of course they are going to approach and grab his arm. He was identified as a suspect. Suspects are to be immediately confronted and contained. Just because he is a collage student does not mean he lacks the potential for violence.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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Angelic_Atheist wrote: Have

Angelic_Atheist wrote:

Have you really looked at the video?

Yes. I left only a brief comment because there is a lot to be discussed here and I'd rather make use of my time on the religion activism front.

Quote:
The student/suspect fit the description in my book. Had he cooperated, he probably would have been sent home with a police contact card and instructions to keep his student ID handy when using campus facilities.

I agree. Personally though I think both parties were out of line. I can't express any sort of happiness that the kid got what he deserved, I find that reaction somewhat crude. I watch the show "Cops" often, and can identify with the use of the taser, I respect that it's possible the officers were within their use of allowable force. I just cringe at the actions of the officers though, I think there were better ways to get the kid out. A bunch of big guys against a little kid, and I think they could've got him in cuffs without a taser, in fact I KNOW they could, I've seen two cops easily manhandle someone in that situation. And as far as I know, getting him in cuffs while on the ground was the proper use of police force. The whole idea of tasering a person when they are not being a physical threat
sits wrong with me (again it may be within the allowable use of force).

Like I said, I can sit on either side here, I'd need more info. If you know me at all, you'd know that I don't like taking positive positions of belief unless I am completely certain of said position. This keeps me from ever being wrong. Eye-wink Even though such a feat has proven difficult, I attempt to attain it.

Quote:
Having responded to the call, the officers now must file a report of what happened. To do this they must interview all parties involved, including the student/suspect who obviously forgot he had a brain.

That's just part of the job.

Quote:
Of course they are going to approach and grab his arm. He was identified as a suspect. Suspects are to be immediately confronted and contained. Just because he is a collage student does not mean he lacks the potential for violence.

I'd rather the grabbing of arm, and a struggle to get the cuffs on him. I didn't say he lacked the potential for violence, however I didn't see him going that route in the video.

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I agree for the most part,

I agree for the most part, Sapient.

My tentative support still goes to the officers.
The suspect did not have his student ID, which is required to use campus facilities.
He did not leave when he failed to produce said ID.
He did not attempt to leave, in fact, until city police arrived.
Now it is official and he must not leave until his side of the story has been recorded.

He was defiant every step of the way. Instead of using reason, he allowed pure emotion to rule his actions. He suffered the consequences, which amount to nothing more than a severely bruised ego, and probably a resisting arrest charge.

Like I said before, this could have all been avoided had he complied with campus regs. The PD would have never been called and the taser would have never been involved.

The fault, by far, is with the student. I question his motives, and think he is setting up for something bigger.

Quote:
Yes. I left only a brief comment because there is a lot to be discussed here and I'd rather make use of my time on the religion activism front.
I completely agree, and thank you for the work you and the RRS and the likes of Dawkins and Harris (to name just a few) do for us.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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My only problem is that they

My only problem is that they tased him more than once. The kid was in the wrong... I don't deny that. As I said, I think they probably could have subdued him after the first time they tased him by cuffing him.
If the kid was trying to provoke them to start trouble, they played right into it. A little less force would have been better for both sides.


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FundamentallyFlawed

FundamentallyFlawed wrote:
That's horrible... no other way to describe it.

Cops are just like any other group. Like you said, some are cool and some are assholes. If you give assholes power, they're not going to use it properly.

Even if the kid was in the wrong, I could see possibly tazing him once. At that point, it would be quite easy for the officers to restrain and arrest him. This was just a flagrent abuse of power. They were torturing the poor guy.

Actually, once the student was cooperating, the police had no right to intervene. All that the police did, according to most legal systems was illegal. Tasers are generally intended for use when a situation is a physical danger to other people. If there was no indication that the student was a danger to anyone, then the taser was an unnecesary act, and any officer allowing it to happen without interfering or who themselves threatened to do similar would normally be charged with derilict of duty or abuse of power. At the very least the incident should be investigated by the police department (though, such investigations tend to be problematic and biased).

Issues with police in situations like this tend to be problematic, and it is not uncommon for people of authority to do things to harm others. A classic and probably one of the most well-knoen examples is the Prison Experiments. There's more examples of this, though as time passes. Studies done on a variety of things from courtship rituals to reactions of teachers to students in particular situations have shown that people who see no consequence to their actions will seek to manipulate in order to accomodate their desires or to take control over a situation. Public events have been aired to show this, as well as TV shows. In response, those who the control is being exerted over will often rebel or do things in order to prevent punishment. We've seen the apparent evidence of it in regards to Abu Gharib, though we're not sure which authority did what and when, one thing we can be sure of it was the authority situation. What is interesting is, in some cases the behavior is advocated. My dad watches CSI and Law and Order all the time, and invites me over to watch them with him. In the show, it is often the case that the heros portray areas where they bend the rules or where they use manipulation of others in order to get what they want. The main male character portrayed in CSI is a tall guy with dark hair that has been mentioned in the media as being very popular and attractive both as an actor and as a character, while I find the character very disturbing in the manner that he manipulates other people. But people eat it up as a norm and something that is ultimately OK.

MarthaSplatterhead wrote:
Do things really got to get this bad? When are people going to stop taking this shit? There had to be at least ten people in that room. I just wish we could be strong enough to "stand up" (as the cop kept repeating) and over-power those tyrants. It makes me feel so helpless when I am witness to this sort of behavior. Like when I waited for a bus in San Diego downtown and watched two cops kick a mentally disturbed homeless guy around on the side walk. I think they were just bored or something. Everbody was upset by it but did NOTHING.

The thing is, most people recognize that over powering a cop can lead to even more bad news. Assaulting a police officer is a crime. Interfering with police actions is often a crime. It is difficult to react when you think your reaction may make the situation worse. Ever see a herd of antelope being hunted by a predator? One antlelope may get picked off from the herd, but most of the other antelopes will either just watch, or will run. Humans often have the same tendency, and many who don't do that have to make a conscious effort to not do it. With two police officers (or more?), two campus security people and some ten students, with the officers armed with tasers, I do give credit to the idea that it is possible that rebelling students would have had no chance to conquer the situation. The upside is, there's ten witnesses to all that happened, a video, and it looked like someone was taking some closeups of the situation with their cell phone. Kudos to her!

Insidium Profundis wrote:
Sequence of events:

1. Student is in library after 11PM.
2. Police officers, following standard procedure, ask everyone for their IDs.
3. Student fails to provide an ID because he assumes he is being singled out due to his race.
4. Police tell him to get out.
5. He fails to comply.
6. Police taser him for failing to comply.
7. He continues resisting arrest, invoking repeated tasering.

I, for one, am glad that stupidity has finally wrought painful consequences.

Here is a thread on the tuckermax board in which a witness explains what occured: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=12336

Posts from said dude:

Quote:
Okay kids, I'm here!

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems".

He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him.

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

Being a dick, a moron, or rude is not a basis for a taze gun. Though we have conflicting stories on the matter, I don't think justification has been made for the taser, although resisting arrest in some states allows for the use of a taser (but not all states allow this, as they consider the taser for dangerous situation use only). Witness accounts where an individual seems to already have a bias against someone can sometimes be dismissed in courts due to an obvious bias - the reason is because people with an already existing animosity towards someone will often percieve the situation with a bias against that person even when others don't. This guy claims to know the guy and charactarizes him negatively, but with little evidence (I actually found the facebook quote to be a funny joke independent of the context of the situation, I've heard that statement before).

While this guy makes claims in support of the police, it is clear from the video that some of the students had a different opinion, and some even tried to interfere a little (note the guy tensed up and talking to the police, or the girl who tried to interfere). The diverse reactions of the students is evidence of different perceptions of the situation. I was wondering what all the different responses were.

Also, the ability to yell about something doesn't imply an ability to get up. Many people are immobilized in their lower body simply due to the pain involved with an injury, so I don't buy the line about him being able to get up, either. Essentially, I think the situation has conflicting stories, and perhaps we need more information on it. I still wouldnt doubt it if it was the case that the police overstepped their boundaries. Even if the student was resisting arrest, the police were overstepping their boundaries with the threats to the other students.

I just noticed this friendly gem from the guy in a later post:

Quote:
Now I'm no lawyer, but to clarify the legalese, do the police have the right to put their hands on you and drag your ass out of a public place if you refuse their requests to leave? The guy wasn't leaving when the college patrol guys were there, so I'm pretty sure this constitutes non-compliance. Telling the cops to fuck off pretty much seals the deal as well.

By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing faggots, so because of this there is a protest organized in the middle of our busiest walk-through on campus at 12 pm tomorrow. Way to show the man what you think by preventing college students who are minding their own business and walking to class from being able to do so.

(emphasis mine)

I'm thinking this guy has a different axe to grind.

Based on other things the guy said in later posts, it seems there is a definate bias - he claims that the person had no intention of leaving and that the yelling, act of getting up, etc. was to "add fire to the scene" - this guy thinks he's privy to the thoughts of the individual that got tasered? ESP FTW!

Another gem:

Quote:
I'll take my buddy's digital camera and get pictures of our protest tomorrow so you can see these college-aged convenient liberals in all their pussy-footing complaining glory. I don't know if he pissed himself because my perspective of the situation was from behind.

The more I read, the less I trust this testimony - not only because of the clear bias, but notice his view of the situation is suddenly inhibited? From what I could tell of the video, the cops were mostly facing the same way as the individual being tased, he could probably see some of the events, but probably not as much as he's implying. He also seems to emphasize how the kid told the police to fuck off ... as if that justifies anything. My guess is that this guy is reacting also to his negative view of the individual involved and animosity towards someone complaining about the Patriot act ... I wonder what his political affiliation is ... (sarcasm)

Another gem:

Quote:
MoreCowbell wrote:
Hey Doormat, there was something mentioned in one of the Facebook groups that hadn't been brought up here so far. After the first taser, he audibly screams, "I have a medical condition" multiple times. Has there been any talk as to the truth of this statement on campus?

Nothing that I've heard, no. Honestly I think the only medical condition the guy has is being a complete idiot. But we all know the treatment for that...a few tasings here and there.

Later parts of the thread show his great prowess in insults:

Quote:
Hey fuckstick, I come from a country immediately north of Iran called Armenia. How's that for ethnic you cum-stain? NO ONE presumed shit about Mostafa. They have these two little tools called rationality and realism that you seem to be lacking completely. I'm racist against Iranians? You stupid fuck, my entire family was born and spent a good deal of their lives in the northwestern part of Iran.

Quote:
People like you make me wish murder was legal.

It doesn't really matter if this guy is or is not against iranians, tbh. The kid being a target of racial profiling is only important if it actually happened, but even without that, the police may have overstepped their bounds.

Of course, it's a conspiracy too:

Quote:
Honestly the very first thing that came to my mind was that this entire thing was staged. However, it most definitely was not faked. Things seemed too coincidental for it not to be staged. The guy with the video? How did he know to turn it on when he did, right as the situation started. The guy is a middle eastern studies major and is very politically active, including having quotes that leads one to believe he likes to create situations. It all smells very fishy to me, but regardless, there are some important lessons to be learned from this, especially that people in southern california are generally gaping vaginas.

My assessment is ... this guy is not a very good witness of the situation ...

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
I call Bullshit!

That student should have had his ID. He didnt, and when called on it refused to leave.
It became enough for an issue for the city police to be called in. So now the cops get to deal with a spoiled rotten me me me punk

Except the lack of compliancy seems questionable as some stories claim that he was trying to leave, and even at the beginning of the video, he claims to be ready to leave, making the tasing justification quite hazy.

Also, according the the person that is supposedly a student that was recounting it in that thread that was linked to another board, the student did have an ID, but due to feeling he was a target of descrimination, he didn't produce it. I'm wishing there had been video footage of the asking for the ID the first time. I'm wondering what motivations there could have been to make the student feel this way. Is there the same animosity towards the student as was shown by the guy I quoted above? If there is, could such a concern be justifiable? Regardless, the question of if the guy was going to comply when the police intervened is probably the most important one here.

Insidium Profundis wrote:
The taser is a non-lethal device used to subdue dissenters. When someone with a taser (and legal authority) tells you to do something - especially after you're already on shaky ground - it's a smart idea to comply.

Oh, I disagree, sometimes rebelling against authority and non-compliance can have a beneficial effect, and has been that way in some historical situations as well. Rosa Parks comes to mind.

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
Have you really looked at the video? The student/suspect fit the description in my book.

Fit what description?

Quote:
Had he cooperated, he probably would have been sent home with a police contact card and instructions to keep his student ID handy when using campus facilities.

Are you sure? And if he was cooperating when the police did what they did, what would that tell you?

Quote:
Having responded to the call, the officers now must file a report of what happened.

And with all the complaining about reports that people have to do .. it is nice that we have them to refer to when we go to investigate a situation ...

Quote:
To do this they must interview all parties involved, including the student/suspect who obviously forgot he had a brain.

Did he? I don't think that we've had an adequate description of the account at all, so I don't think we can know if the student acted wisely or not ...

Quote:
Of course they are going to approach and grab his arm. He was identified as a suspect.

Being identified as a suspect does not grant police the right to walk up and grab a person, in fact, in many cases that is illegal for them to do.

Quote:
Suspects are to be immediately confronted and contained. Just because he is a collage student does not mean he lacks the potential for violence.

Suspects are not immediately confronted and contained. Only people who are perceived to be an immediate threat are handled in such a manner. Also, potential for violence doesn't mean he is going to get violent. Most people have a potential for violence, but we don't necesarily randomly explode.

Sapient wrote:
This keeps me from ever being wrong. Eye-wink Even though such a feat has proven difficult,

If we ever disagree, then I'm telling you right now, you're gonna be wrong! Sticking out tongue


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SilkyShrew wrote: Sapient

SilkyShrew wrote:

Sapient wrote:
This keeps me from ever being wrong. Eye-wink Even though such a feat has proven difficult,

If we ever disagree, then I'm telling you right now, you're gonna be wrong! :p

You may be wrong about that. Sticking out tongue

Did you notice that we both came to the same conclusion about the witness at tuckermax boards independently of each other? Eye-wink

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Sapient wrote:SilkyShrew

Sapient wrote:
SilkyShrew wrote:

Sapient wrote:
This keeps me from ever being wrong. Eye-wink Even though such a feat has proven difficult,

If we ever disagree, then I'm telling you right now, you're gonna be wrong! :p

You may be wrong about that. Sticking out tongue

Did you notice that we both came to the same conclusion about the witness at tuckermax boards independently of each other? Eye-wink

Yeah, I realized that when I got to your post, but I'm more right because I'm me Eye-wink lol

On a serious note, I thought it was pretty clear from his posts, I just thought transplanting highlights here would help emphasize that. Any bets on if he's religious or identifies as a freethinker? lol I shouldn't make fun of people, I feel ashamed now. Sad Eye-wink


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He sounds like a typical

He sounds like a typical Anne Coulter/Rush Limbaugh type fan.


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Should cops be able to taser

Should cops be able to taser people at all?
Sure, better then killing them.

Should cops be able to taser people when they might cause harm?
Sure, the taser will stun a person stopping them from doing something.

Should cops be able to taser people when they don't comply?
Maybe, really it deals with the whole cause harm thing.

Should cops be able to taser people repeatively?
Maybe again, did they stop? Thats what a taser is made for, making a person stop.

Should cops be able to taser people when want them to stop doing what you told them to do?
That is just confusing... It would be like asking someone to 'stand down' when they don't know what it means. Really if a cop is asking someone to do something then he tells them to do something else it will come across as an abuse of power.

Should cops be able to taser people then ask them to get up?
No, a taser is made to stun or stop a person, it can make it so a person has no ability to move for 15-30 min. It makes no sense to begin with even if he could stand. They are saying, "If you don't stand up we will make it so you can't."


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What seems to be missing

What seems to be missing from this thread is the officers' accounts of what happened so I won't attempt any judgement either way in this instance.

Years ago, I dated a police officer and some of the stories I heard were eye-opening. It's unfortunate, but an officer can't always tell when a situation is going to get quickly out of hand and things will turn threatening.

There aren't as many "bad cops" out there as some would have you believe. It's never wise to get sassy with an officer. If you treat an officer with respect, you will most likely get the same respect.

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I certainly hope that an

I certainly hope that an investigation will be carried out if necessary. However, I am overall satisfied with the result: a painful experience for a rude idiot.

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I can't find satisfaction in

I can't find satisfaction in pain experienced by rude idiots.

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I'm only going to suggest a

I'm only going to suggest a book to read, and refrain from comment. If you read it, you'll get my point. If not, my point will be meaningless, as it's sociological data that differs from cultural definitions.

Anyway...

The Authoritarian Specter, by Bob Altmeyer.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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Insidium Profundis wrote:I

Insidium Profundis wrote:
I certainly hope that an investigation will be carried out if necessary. However, I am overall satisfied with the result: a painful experience for a rude idiot.

Wouldn't Martin Luther King have been considered a "rude idiot" 50 years ago? Wouldn't most theists consider Dan Barker, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins "rude idiots?"

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MattShizzle wrote:Wouldn't

MattShizzle wrote:
Wouldn't Martin Luther King have been considered a "rude idiot" 50 years ago? Wouldn't most theists consider Dan Barker, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins "rude idiots?"

Having realized that this brave soul is fighting for the right of all of us to defy university regulations and consequent authoritary enforcement of said regulations, I certainly think so.

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I suppose you want to live

I suppose you want to live in a police state. News flash - the police don't make the law! They only enforce it, they can't just tell you to do something and you have to do it. That's the difference between a free and a totalitarian society. In a free society the police can't tell you what to do unless you are really violating the law or there is an emergency situation.

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MattShizzle wrote:Insidium

MattShizzle wrote:
Insidium Profundis wrote:
I certainly hope that an investigation will be carried out if necessary. However, I am overall satisfied with the result: a painful experience for a rude idiot.

Wouldn't Martin Luther King have been considered a "rude idiot" 50 years ago? Wouldn't most theists consider Dan Barker, Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins "rude idiots?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M

In plenty of circles yes. Comment left about Dawkins on youtube today: "Richard Dawkins is a hate-filed, pompous arrogant jerk." Should we get out the taser of satisfaction?

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What you seem to convenietly

What you seem to convenietly forget here is that the reason he was arrested and taken away was not because of some patriot act nonsense, but because he was violating university requirements. The fact that he supposed it was due to the patriot act and refused to cooperate does not absolve him of responsibility.

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So he violated some minor

So he violated some minor university rule he deserves to have been tortured???? Have you ever been to college? They have a lot of very minor and pretty stupid rules. Even if someone was suspected of murder what they did was excessive.
_____
Maybe you think people should be executed for double parking or shoplifting. Hard to believe you are an atheist. That seems to be Biblical thinking.
_____
Luckilly both you weren't in charge and I wasn't caught when I put "out of order" signs on every vending machine on campus when I lost money in a vending machine. Who knows what they would have done to me.
_____

http://www.warsawuprising.com/media/wu443b.wvx

[mod note: Matt please don't create three posts in a row of two sentences each, please condense it in one post.]

[mod note: now a fourth post in a row?]

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Quote:So he violated some

Quote:
So he violated some minor university rule he deserves to have been tortured???? Have you ever been to college? They have a lot of very minor and pretty stupid rules. Even if someone was suspected of murder what they did was excessive.

Maybe you think people should be executed for double parking or shoplifting. Hard to believe you are an atheist. That seems to be Biblical thinking.

Luckilly both you weren't in charge and I wasn't caught when I put "out of order" signs on every vending machine on campus when I lost money in a vending machine. Who knows what they would have done to me.

[mod note: Matt please don't create three posts in a row of two sentences each, please condense it in one post.]

What an intellectually dishonest misrepresentation and exaggeration of my position.

An intruder who fails to comply with campus security is potentially a threat to the other students. He must be dealt with. A taser is a non-lethal weapon which leaves no permanent damage - very humane in my opinion. He had no right to be there in the first place without an ID. He didn't leave when asked. This is enough cause to summon the police to apprehend him.

Your constant Nazi/Holocaust references do not add anything to your credibility, nor the subject at hand. Your emotivist rhetoric and utterly inappropriate comparisons to Nazi Germany diminish the significance of the Holocaust. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Sorry to the people who are

Sorry to the people who are the true mods on this site, I am very serious against fascists. Fascists and ultra right wingers just bring up all the anger Im have. But To IP, you seem to think anyone in authority should have ultimate power! So what he didn't have an ID! I am disabled so I don't own any photo ID! I have seen reviews from other cops, using a taser is just below using a gun. Unless you are a Nazi, you would realize that the police aren't allowed to just torture peolple because the y don't like them. Beating someone is non lethal - should they be allowed to beat anyone who disagrees with them? I would vote to acquit anyone who was a sniper and shot a cop who did that sort of thing in this situation. I hope you don't vote. Your political views are pretty scary. Campus cops might shoot someone for looking at them - believe me , don't think they know what they are doing.

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It is clear that you are

It is clear that you are incapable of reasonable discussion. Good day.


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Me? It is clear to me you

Me? It is clear to me you are a fascist and are incapable of not being an asshole. Fuck you. Go support Bush.

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You let your emotions, not

You let your emotions, not your reason guide you. This has led you to greatly misrepresent my view and attribute to me positions I clearly do not hold (supporting President Bush; being a fascist; wanting to execute people for parking in the wrong spot, etc.). Your endless tirade of attacks on my character are pointless and ineffectual.

Do you realize the mistakes that you are committing? Calm yourself and re-consider this thread in a dispassionate manner.

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Sorry. I was really drunk

Sorry. I was really drunk Sun night (I get extra drunk on Sundays just to piss Christians off.) I do still disagree with you in the strongest possible terms.

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MattShizzle wrote:Sorry. I

MattShizzle wrote:
Sorry. I was really drunk Sun night (I get extra drunk on Sundays just to piss Christians off.) I do still disagree with you in the strongest possible terms.

Ive heard "sorry, I was drunk" far too many times to accept that.

I can not take seriously anyone who runs primarily on emotion (and alcohol) and who considers only the evidence that supports their particular view.

Quote:
(I get extra drunk on Sundays just to piss Christians off.)
Are we to take from this that you are drunk on a regular basis??

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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Angelic_Atheist wrote:I call

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
I call Bullshit!

That student should have had his ID. He didnt, and when called on it refused to leave.

In a land long ago called the USA, it was not necessary to carry ID. Only in those foreigners had to carry ID in police-controlled countries.


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politicalhumanist wrote:In a

politicalhumanist wrote:
In a land long ago called the USA, it was not necessary to carry ID. Only in those foreigners had to carry ID in police-controlled countries.

And long before that, men used stone tools and grunted a lot. Oh how society has decayed.

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You completely miss the

You completely miss the point that we once used to be free. Or at least much closer to being free. I dunno. What's your prefrence? Liberty or tyranny? I lean a bit toward liberty...


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Zhwazi wrote:You completely

Zhwazi wrote:
You completely miss the point that we once used to be free. Or at least much closer to being free. I dunno. What's your prefrence? Liberty or tyranny? I lean a bit toward liberty...

Technology does not care for nostalgia. The recent security measures are simply the logical descendant of advances in identification technology, as well as the need to implement it. Ted Kaczynski characterized the monolithic and necessary progress of technology as inherently causal of a decrease in individual liberty.

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Insidium Profundis

Insidium Profundis wrote:
Technology does not care for nostalgia. The recent security measures are simply the logical descendant of advances in identification technology, as well as the need to implement it. Ted Kaczynski characterized the monolithic and necessary progress of technology as inherently causal of a decrease in individual liberty.

There is no need to implement identification technology. Only a desire by some factions of humanity to control other factions of humanity, and the ability to do so, with identification as a means to that end. No "need" exists, only a want. And it is a criminal want.

Kaczynski is wrong. First, that technology or technological progress is monolithic, second, that technological progress is necessary, and third, that it is inherently causal of a decrease in liberty. Wrong on all counts. If you agree with him provide reasons.


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Sapient wrote:I can't find

Sapient wrote:
I can't find satisfaction in pain experienced by rude idiots.

Try harder Eye-wink