SOMEWHAT OF A POLL: How many athiests are educated?
Posted on: October 24, 2006 - 8:12am
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SOMEWHAT OF A POLL: How many athiests are educated?
I'm curious to know how many atheists here are either in college, graduate school, are planning on going to college if you're in high school or have upper level degrees. I'm trying to correlate (non-scientifically of course) education (this includes liberal arts) with rational/atheistic thinking. Just post your degree(s) or your plans for higher education and your interests. in this thread.
I'll start: I'm in graduate school working on a thesis looking at the invasion molecular pathways of the malaria parasite in red blood cells.
In Rationality,
Left of Larry
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiousness_and_intelligence
I brought the information over from wiki in case some theist deleted it...
Religiosity and intelligence is a subject that studies the correlation, if any, between religiosity and intelligence.
Topics dealing with the measurement of intelligence are often controversial. Critics in these areas examine the validity and fairness of cognitive testing, as well as the problems in the definition and operationalization of the other measurements under discussion, in this case religiosity. Many of the issues pertaining to the investigation of group differences in intelligence vis-à-vis religiosity are also raised in the investigation of race and intelligence—a better established, though even more controversial, area of intelligence research.
In scientific research, correlations can't be automatically assumed to imply causation: even if a positive or negative correlation can be found between intelligence and religiosity, it doesn't mean that one is causing the other. (See also: spurious relationship; and the logical fallacy: correlation implies causation).
Contents
Current research
There is little research directly linking IQ with higher or lower levels of religiosity and spirituality. [2]
In Explorations: An undergraduate research journal, Regan Clarke investigated the issue. In the study, it was not found any significant correlation between religiosity levels and IQ scores. However, religious behavior and the idea of prayer fulfillment were found to have a weak to mild negative correlation with self-reported Quantitative SAT (QSAT) scores, (but not with Verbal SAT scores). Given the results, the author suggests that the negative associations among QSAT, religiosity, and prayer fulfillment may be due to (a lack of) learned skills in reasoning, instead of intelligence per se. [3]
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Religiosity and other socioeconomic factors
Studies focusing on the correlation between religiosity and other socioeconomic factors, such as higher education and interest in science, will be mentioned. However, such studies were not designed to consider the relationship between intelligence and religiosity. Even if the attribute measured can arguably relate with intelligence, the validity of using the results to imagine a correlation between religiosity and intelligence is very limited (see criticism section).
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Religiosity and education in the United States
Research in the United States has suggested a negative correlation between religiosity and educational level, a variable usually related with higher IQ. In 2000, noted skeptic Michael Shermer found a negative correlation between education and religiosity in the United States, though Rice University indicates this may not apply to the social sciences.[4] Lastly a June 2006 Gallup survey further supported that a definite belief in God declines with educational level.[5]
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Belief in a personal God among scientists
In one study, 90% of the general population surveyed professed a distinct belief in a personal god and afterlife, while only 40% of the scientists with a BS surveyed did so, and only 10% of those considered "eminent."[1]. Another study found that mathematicians were just over 40%, biologists just under 30%, and physicists were barely over 20% likely to believe in God.[2]
A 1998 survey[3] by Larson and Witham of the 517 members of the United States National Academy of Sciences showed that 72.2% of the members expressed "personal disbelief" in a personal God while 20.8% expressed "doubt or agnosticism" and only 7.0% expressed "personal belief". This was a follow-up to their own earlier 1996 study[4] which itself was a follow-up to a 1916 study by James Leuba[5].
Reported "importance of religion" and statistics among nations
The Pew Global Attitudes Project surveyed opinions by nation with the question "How important is religion in your life—very important, somewhat important, not too important, or not at all important?"[6] The report finds that Americans are much more religious than people living in other wealthy nations. In the U.S., 59% of people reported religion was "very important", as compared to 30% in Canada. In this way, the views of Americans are more similar to people in developing countries they surveyed than those in developed countries they surveyed. This proviso of "they surveyed" is mentioned due to the fact there are several developed nations, like Greece or Malta, that are known for high church attendance but were not able to be in this survey. The study found a correlation between the percentage of people reporting that religion was "very important" and the national per-capita GDP. It can be further stated that the nations who scored as most religious tended to have low science scores according to TIMSS.[7] Also an inverse correlation at Nationmaster can be found between mathematical literacy and church attendance[8]. (Although labor regulation and police per capita were far stronger inverse correlations) No significant inverse correlation showed up for scientific literacy[9] or reading literacy[10] however.
Article from Free inquiry magazine
In 1986, Burnham P. Beckwith, wrote on "The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith" for the skeptic magazine Free inquiry.[6] He summarized studies on religiosity and its relation with attributes that he considered positively linked with intelligence. The conclusion was that all but four of the forty-three polls listed seemed to indicate that the amount of religious faith vary inversely with intelligence (for American students and adults). Although conceding that it was easy to find fault with the studies he reviewed, "for all were imperfect", Burnham contended that those studies, taken together, provided strong evidence for an inverse correlation between Intelligence and Religious Faith in America. Burnham's essay shouldn’t be confused with a scientific text on the topic, however.
Criticism
The attempt to use psychometric measures of intelligence, such as the IQ test may be criticized. Some scientists object to the idea that intelligence is a single, measurable characteristic; others object to the use of specific tests. As such, any studies about intelligence tend to be controversial.
Studies focusing on correlations between religiosity and other socioeconomic factors, such as higher education or interest in science, are not reliable to predict a relationship between religion and intelligence, even if it is assumed that these factors are typically associated with intelligence. Correlation is not transitive: that is, even if A is correlated with B, and B is correlated with C, you cannot draw the conclusion that A is correlated with C. It requires a separate set of data to establish that correlation.
Some of the studies primarily deal with unmarried high-school and university students, and other studies show people become more religious after marriage and children [11]. A recent Gallup International survey indicates this is international [12]. It showed that levels of atheism decline after age 30 while self-description as "a religious person" rises.
Studies of religiousness and intelligence have been predominantly performed in the U.S., which is not necessarily representative of other populations. The USA has, for example, a higher level of religiosity than other developed nations.[13][14][15]. (See also: Demographics of atheism).
[edit]
Counter trends
Although the majority of studies show an inverse relationship between education and religiosity, there are several counterexamples of religious groups among which a positive correlation between educational level and religiosity has been shown. Perhaps the best-known of these studies are those involving Latter-day Saints or Mormons.
In 1992, Richard Wootton found that the proportion of LDS scientists who had received baccalaureate degrees from universities in Utah who believed that Joseph Smith was inspired by God in the formation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was 91%.[7] Belief in God and in the divinity of Jesus Christ showed similarly high numbers.[16] The percentages contrasted enough with mainstream survey data that the study was performed a second time, with the same results.[8] These findings contrast starkly with a national study of scientists in American Men and Women of Science, in which only 40% believed in a God influenced by worship or in an afterlife with personal identity.[9]
But perhaps even more striking is the correlation between education levels and religiosity displayed among the Mormons. Survey research indicated that 41% of Mormons with only elementary school education attend Church regularly. By contrast, 76% of Mormon college graduates attend Church regularly and 78% of Mormons who went beyond their college degrees to do graduate study attend Church regularly. As Mormons attain more education, it seems, they become more devout.[10] These findings, again, contrast with national norms; national survey data published by the Princeton Religious Research Center indicate that the higher the level of educational attainment, the lower the level of religious zeal. [11]
A 2004 study by the General Social Survey showed that in general 30.4% of those with a graduate degree attend religious services weekly or more. This was higher than any lesser educated group.[17]. Further the group with the highest percentage of “never attending” was composed by those with only a high school education or less. That stated, those with graduate degrees were the least likely to believe in the afterlife or the Bible as the literal word of God.
A caveat is in order. Those who regard church attendance as a measure of religiosity must take into account the fact - noted by sociologists - that people attend church regularly from a variety of motivations: conformity, sociability, status needs, even coercion.
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ah..scientific studies..interesting to know, Thanks Brian...
I was just curious, though, on the board members level of education, if for no other purpose than my own curiosity.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.
I have a BS in psychology - minored in Philosophy.
I had to tell my folks, both PhD.s and nominal Catholics, I was dropping out of acting school to be a street performer.
1.5 very wasted college years.
I've been thinking aabout finishing my theatre degree, but it's been almost 20 years.
Self educated atheist here.
LV
"The time appears to me to have come when it is the duty of all to make their dissent from religion known."
- John Stuart Mill
http://theistsanonymous.blogspot.com/
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Cheers.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.
I became an atheist only a few months after enrolling in college. I will receive my finance degree in May. I'm interested in a real estate law career, which would mean I'd have to go to law school, but that's a maybe. I'm so sick of being in school that I haven't made up my mind.
Freshman year in college: B.S. in Astrophysics & Astronomy with a Mathematical Sciences minor.
Skipped senior year in high school for a year in college.
"Character is higher than intellect... A great soul will be strong to live, as well as to think."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
I am in graduate school, getting my PhD in astrophysics. I have the undergraduate degree Filosofie Magister (Sweden) in physics. It gets translated into a Masters in the American system.
I went to college for 1 quarter and then dropped out to try and get into film school. I've been attempting to go to Full Sail in Orlando but I'm finally settling for Art Institute of Atlanta as it teaches the only thing I haven't taught myself...lighting and how to work the equipment. I've been seriously studying filmmaking for over 2 years now, so that's all I really need. I should be starting there no later than March '07.
And my atheism? Self taught, baby.
"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank."-Woody Allen
"Atheism is life affirming in a way religion can never be."-Richard Dawkins
Right now I'm going to college, but I am becoming unsure about what to major in.
I majored in music education and by the time I graduated, I had taken so many electives in mathematics that I was only 4 hours short of a degree. Of course I finished that up.
I have some extra schooling in information technologies.
I'm "home-schooled" in feline medicine (with an extensive veterinary library) and know enough to be a pretty darned good caregiver if one of my critters has problems.
I'm completely self-taught in web marketing strategies.
I have on-the-job training in theater (behind-the-scenes).
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I have a BA in a self-designed major of 'Religious Anthropology" where I studied the development of religion and culture.
Then I finished my MA in Philosophy in 2003.
I want to continue with my PhD, but right now that's not possible.
Shaun
I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.
I have a BS in Mathematics with a Computer Science focus.
I would like to continue on and get a masters, and possibly a PhD eventually.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
I have a BA in English and studied for an MAMC.
I'm a college drop-out. I love the library and books that aren't in the library. I research topics when I become interested in them. Or if I stumble across something new. Currently I am reading Politics and Piety-Barry Lynn (thanks to LeftofLarry), The Ancestor's Tale-Richard Dawkins, and Autobiography of a Blue-Eyed Devil-Inga Muscio. I like to mix it up. Sorry, no degree, but I
learning.
Something my ex told me a while back...
You can graduate from Harvard and still be a fool.
Education only goes so far. Critical thinking is the important issue here. Being educated is a good thing, it opens up doors. But education doesn't necessarily have to cost 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollars a year. Books are always a great way to learn.
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I am attending a university right now, studying Bio-Chemisty, and minoring in Evolutionary Biology. Planning on getting a PhD.
48 credits in Philosophy of the Wilderness, College Writing, Spanish 101 & 102, HTML Web Design, Image Editing, Access Database Design Concepts, Word Processing Concepts, and more classes from the University of Alaska Southeast.
In contemporary times, I teach myself stuff from sites like this, Infidels.org, James Randi's site, and sites devoted to Web development and computing. Of course, I read, read, read, ad infinitum.
http://freethinkernation.com
I'm still in high school, but i'm definately planning on going to collage. As for my atheism, I've been somewhat agnostic since grade school, and i've probably learned a lot of it from my dad. He has a degree in philosophy.
No college here. Not even a high school degree...I got a GED.
I am, however, an avid reader, and have been known to scour the internet for further information and to check sources.
Cheers to Martha... Here's to the "pursuit of education".
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
Have any of you guys read The Authoritarian Specter, by Bob Altmeyer?
There's a lot of interesting information about the authoritarian personality, but one of the things that was driven home to me in the reading was just how difficult it is to get accurate representations of what people really believe and put it into any sort of statistical form.
It's been pointed out that there is very little research on the potential correlation between IQ and religious belief. This is very true, and I think the question will remain largely unanswered. However, I recall reading a study quite a few years ago where the researchers did a denomination/education comparison. The results were exactly what you would expect.
I'm sure somebody with more interest in the subject could do some digging and find it on the web.
Anyway, off the top of my head, I recall that Catholics were the most educated... something like 40% had post-high school degrees.
Want to take a guess which denomination had the lowest percentage? Oh, I'll save you the trouble. Southern Baptist.
Jehovah's Witnesses bottomed out the chart, but since they are not considered mainstream Christian by most mainstream Christians, I'll just put the asterisk beside them.
The thing that sucks is that they didn't include atheists. Damn them! That would have been an interesting comparison.
Oh, and for the record, I have a masters degree.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I want to add...Here's to not being in $75,000 debt working at a place answering a telephone and sitting on a history degree like my unfortunate friend. Cheer to you.
That's a good point. I've worked with PhDs that were completely clueless and didn't have a lick of common sense. Many PhDs don't have much creativity so they hit a wall if they run up against a problem that requires a bit of outside the box thinking.
Anyway, I started out as an aerospace engineering major, didn't like it, and switched schools and majors to computer science. I more or less finished the comp sci courses, but ran out of money and motivation. With over 5 years experience, oddly enough working in credit card banking but still doing programming, college isn't really an important factor in getting jobs. Degrees aren't really necessary in computers, though eventually I should probably go back and finish up.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
- Eric Idle, from The Galaxy Song
In science especially, a PhD means you know all there is to know about a needle point, so to speak. PhD's are very very very specific. Most PhD's can't tell you shit about any other subject besides their specific fields. The most important thing to do as a scientist or anyone is to know how to ask the right questions and how to go about finding the right answers...filtering out the bullshit and being able to critically analyze everything. That's essentially what a PHD should know how to do. Even if you do not know shit about say, quantum physics, you should at least be able to know where and how to find the answers to a specific question. Setting up an experiment and using proper methodology to test and analyze, and most importantly researching the subject in the literature.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.
Well, I didn't find that particular study, but I did find this.
This particular study was released the 5th of this month. The participants were college professors. I found it interesting and comforting...
Yeah, money was an issue for me. I did NOT want to go into debt for an education that may not pay for itself, and the odds were against me. I'd heard too many stories about people unable to pay off their loans.
I'd rather be a dumb hick than in debt. I keep remembering what my dad has always said; "Credit Cards / loans are an express ticket to debts you may not be able to repay." He was a child of the Depression, so that little saying had special meaning. He talked about his neighbors loosing their farms, because they bought on credit, and couldn't repay. His family, did not buy what they could not pay for with cash. They didn't have much of anything, but they didn't have to worry about the repo man either.
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
I know I'm jumping on this thread way late, but for the record, I'm 30 years old, I hold a BA in Religious Studies (no really!) from San Diego State University (dean's list four semesters), and am currently attending Georgetown University Law Center because I want to be a human rights lawyer. I know that all of us Atheists are hateful bastards who'd kill you as soon as look at you (when we're not engaging in bestiality), but I really really want to save the world through lawyering. btw - I'm also in Mensa, so I have a card in my wallet that proves I'm a genius. That comes in handy every time I say something dumb.
"People said I was dumb, but I proved them!"~Fry
I've never been to a university or college. I lost faith in the education system a long long time ago, and take the time to learn things on my own.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
No college here. Self taught on some science, electronics, etc. Not an expert by any means but I USED to know a lot. I'm getting old now (49)and my memory is starting to go.
My diploma says "Master of Science in Engineering". It just shows that they'll give something like that to anybody...
And I gotta admit, im sorry that you people have to worry about the cost of higher learning in the richest country in the world. Here in Denmark, the government not only paid my education, they actually gave me money while I studied (not a lot, you still need a job while you study, but you can get by with some 10-15 hours of work a week). Its a sweet deal.
The other scandinavian countries have similar arrangements. Get over here, we're having a party! We are also the most secular societies in the world. Its a win-win...
On the other hand, if you all leave, the US will be left to the theists with nobody to oppose them, so on second thought, you'd better stay and continue the great job you're doing right now. As a european, I can only say, that I greatly appreciate the people trying to change the fact, that the worlds only remaining superpower bases an awful lot of it's policies on superstition and bronze-age tribal myths. Hang in there!
About the knowledge-level/intelligence of a PhD, well, I would suspect that you need above average intelligence to finish such a degree. But of course it proves nothing about your knowledge of other areas of life. A PhD friend of mine proved this. He has his own company, is a very smart guy, earns 500K+$ a year, knows and cares about politics, social issues etc. but as I discovered during a game of TP was in serious doubt about whether the moon revolves around the earth or visa-versa. No kidding.
Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.
-Martin Luther
I have bachelor's degrees in fine arts (minor in philosophy) and in computer science (earned years later). I originally planned to go on for my master's degree, but never got around to it.
Karen and her hounds
creating art ~ creating a new life
Senior year of high school for me; planning to go to college; no real idea on a major yet.
Woot!
I have a ph.d. in cognitive psychology and a masters in human resource management. I am currently interested in the study of human intelligence.
I have no doubt heathens are over-represented at the high end of IQ-- so too are lefties. It's easy though to find dumb atheists and smart theists, but there is a mean group difference favoring us godless types.
Uh..... 49 ain't old. If your memory is starting to go now, just wait'll you're my age!
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I almost forgot what I wanted to ask...oh, you don't look 49 + in that picture?
My BA was at Fairleigh Dickinson University, I have an MA in applied clinical psychology and a second masters - a Psy M -from Rutgers. I will be leaving for my doctoral internship in July, after which I'll receive my doctorate in applied clinical psychology. Nice to see another psychologist here.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering, a M.S. in Mechanical Engineering, and a M.A. in Economics. Currently working in none of those fields.
Responsibility: A detachable burden easily shifted to the shoulders of God, Fate, Fortune, Luck or one's neighbor. In the days of astrology it was customary to unload it upon a star. ~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, 1911
I've got a BS in Social Work and 10 weeks away from finishing my bachelor thesis for Philosophy. Probably will be attending a master called "Humanitarian crisis management" next year, but haven't made up my mind yet.
Currently seven classes and an MQP away from a BS in a hybrid field study: Biotechnology and Law. Hoping to become a patent attorney (glamorous, I know).
"Like Fingerpainting 101, gimme no credit for having class; one thumb on the pulse of the nation, one thumb in your girlfriend's ass; written on, written off, some calling me a joke, I don't think that I'm a sellout but I do enjoy Coke."
-BHG
I first went to college for marine engineering... Then I dropped out a semester before graduating.
Next I went and got a degree in applied media arts concentrating in animation.
Now I'm working on my masters of education so I can teach high school Physics.... and I think I finally have found my niche. Teaching the children of the world to think critically and rationally about their universe is exactly where I want to be.
Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
I have a B.S. in Computer Science.
I have a B.S. in Commerce, Marketing/Advertising.
First of all i would like to say that there are no dumb atheists...they broke away from Religion so they are smart in my book.
Im a high school senior. planning on graduating this year. I am planning on going to the local community college for a year and then transfer afterwards to another college. I have my heart set on majoring in European History and minoring in Philosophy. I love both of those so much. i dunno if i want to teach though haven't gotten that far. i will cross that bridge when i get to it.
I'm going back to school in Fall '07. At the local WA state Work Source, I took a class in "felons finding work". Well, I want to get a liberal arts degree in sociology, but the Work Source advised me it may be hard to get work in social work because I have a domestic violence felony (remember I am the one who beat up the fundie). So, it looks like I am going to finish an associates in computer programming (Web track) at the local community college, and then go to the Evergreen State College to do the liberal arts stuff in the final two years for a BA in Information Technology. I found it easy to get work in IT with a felony, as it's all about what's in your portfolio.
http://freethinkernation.com
I have a BA in Liberal Arts and a multiple subjects teaching credential. Currently I'm studying music at the local community college.
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Have a Master's in Clinical Psychology and currently earning my Doctorate in Clinical Psychology.
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
I'm glad this thread kicked back up.
I'm taking the scenic route through college, apparently. I was originally an American Studies major with a History minor, but I got sick of being hungry and really poor (with a mountain of debt looming overhead) so I took a year off to work. Which turned into five years. I am now back at college (Rutgers) going for a communication degree and still working full time. I figured Communication would be a little more useful than American Studies. I would have really liked to have gotten into Anthropology but was advised against it. So now I just read a bunch of books.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
I am a Junior in high school. I keep my grades up and intend to get into the best collage that i can get into. I hope to get my degree in law, (already taking pre-law clases at local collage) and also recently i've found that to have a career in law, you can have any collage major. So i am going to major in Anthropology or sometheing else of a scientific nature. So that way if law doesnt work out for me in the futur, i still have something to fall back on besides a factory job. I personally beleive that on average, Athiests are smarted than theists, not saying all, i've met a lot of theists that arent as ignorant as most, but on average, i feel we are on top.
a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] –noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Well "smartness" is a subjective phenomena. I think the ability to critically think is what most people lack. This ability is forced upon you through education.
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Yeah I'm a Sophmore in highschool right now and plan on attending Community College (my grades are shit) and eventually going and getting a masters or PhD in something...
Not sure what though. I wanna help the Atheist community but still be able to make money and whatnot.