How do atheists handle depression and can you help with mine?
Posted on: January 8, 2008 - 11:04am
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How do atheists handle depression and can you help with mine?
I am in a state of depression right now and while reaching out to others for advice I have been getting a large amount of conflicting information. I've been told to stay off meds because have been found to only help 10 % of the takers in a measurable sense while the rest are helped by the placebo effect. My Doc just wants to throw drugs at me, of course christians tell me to pray and wait, and the phsycologist just nods her head then goes "OOps times up, that'll be $250.... What time next week?" I really don't know what the hell to do and I am looking for some rational thinkers do really analyse me. I dunno... 
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So, um... is there a reason for your depression?
although i know sometimes depression can be sadness without a reason, i am curious if they/you have identified a cause for the depression too. if you don't feel comfortable sharing that perhaps just a yes or no and if yes, if it is something you have any degree of control over.
a lot of my friends come to me when they are depressed. probably because i have a shitter life then anyone they know. typically when people i know start crying to me about how much their life sucks i remind them how much mine sucks and it seems to cheer them up. anyway, you don't know me so, "at least you're not me" won't help much and if i try to tell you all the crap i deal with on a daily basis i'm just going to depress myself.
one of the ways i think being a non-believer keeps me going is that i realize this is it. right here... now... tomorrow. only chance you get. might as well make the most of it as the alternative is nothing and i do have some hope that maybe something will happen that will make me happy. although nothing totally awesome has happened, there wasn't any traffic during my commute this morning so that was nice.
One thing to keep in mind is that most people experience depression sometime in their lives, so you're not alone. It is not uncommon for young people struggling to find direction in their lives to experience depression.
Coming into a group and talking about your depression was a good decision. Feedback from others is usually always helpful.
There are lots of causes for depression that range anywhere from a low self-esteem to a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Lately there has been some evidence that diet can effect depression. While a poor diet may not cause depression it can hender the recovery.
Some studies have found that eating a healthy diet of vegetables, fruits, and especially nuts and fish high in Omega 3 fatty acids can have a positive effect on recovering from depression.
Excercise can also have positive effects on depression.
I would suggest staying with therapy and to continue to ask for help from trusted friends and family. And keep in mind that many young people go through stages of depression and that the chances of your getting through this and being a happier person are very good.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
It depends upon the nature of your depression. If it is primarily genetic / hereditary in origin then I would suggest sticking with a good psychiatrist and maintaining a pharmaceutical approach to help correct whatever has gone awry within your brain. This can be a lengthy ( and sometimes frustrating ) process. Psychologists would be of limited use to you in this category of depression.
If your depression is based more upon negative circumstances or something of a more transient nature then perhaps counseling is more appropriate.
It is not strictly an "either or" approach and elements of both psychiatry and psychology could possibly benefit you. The bottom line is that it is frequently a process of elimination. What works for one patient may not work for another. Definitive answers rarely exist in the mental health proffession.
In the meantime ( if you don't mind my suggestions ) stay away from anything that increases your stress. Limit the amount of news that you watch on TV, avoid people that bring you down, try to immerse yourself in anything that produces even the slightest lifting of your depression.
I used to watch old re-runs of Andy Griffith because it was light-hearted comedy and it helped me to focus my thoughts away from whatever was troubling me.
Hang in there buddy.
Well.... (
I was an evangelical that had a happy outlook but incomplete understanding of Jesus and after meticulously reading the bible in its entirety and and few book by reliable sources on manuscript criticism along with God delusion and other atheist works I realized its all bullshit. The bad news is I did it after I god married to a VERY religious evangelical and into her very religious family and I haven't told them yet. So with those social pressures and faking it at church I am getting run down mentally. I sit there thinking "everyone here is either a liar, stupid or nuts!" I am also in a transition between work and school since I left both after we married and moved to a different state. The field I was in doesn't really exist where we are now and I have to wait a whole year to get into the same program down here in school. I think the kicker for me is that when I tell my wife how I feel she says "I'll pray about it" and it hurts me because I know it won't do anything so I feel like I'm being minimized but I can't say anything because it will derail everything. Also I'm getting fatter, broker, dumber, lonelier bye the minute. I really miss the friends factor because I don't have anyone I can relate to and am having trouble finding them. Sorry for the ramblings, RG
Actually medication is very effective. My depression has been greatly reduced since I started Celexa. Don't dismiss it - depression is often a biochemical problem. Hope it helps. Here's something funny related to the issue to give you a laugh at least:
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Hmmm, an atheist stuck away from friends with a very religious wife and in-laws...
Ever thought about cut and running?
Do you think you will ever be able to be happy in your current situation?
This is the only life you get, maybe you should do something a little crazy. Start all over. New life and all that.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
You might be getting fatter and broker but I doubt that you're getting dumber. Saying that you're getting dumber might indicate that you have a self-esteem problem. Lots of people ( if not most people ) have some degree of problems with self-esteem.
Nathaniel Branden, PHD has some excellent books on Self-esteem. He says:
"Self Esteem is:
1. Confidence in our ability to think and to cope with the basic challenges of life.
2. Confidence in our right to be happy, the feeling of being worthy, deserving, entitled to assert our needs and wants, and to enjoy the fruits of our efforts."
I recomend his books. They've had a huge influence on my state of happiness. Of course, it's going to take more than books to get you feeling better. But it might be a good start.
And as far as you being lonier, you can always keep coming in here and talking to us.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
I wanted to also mention that Nathaniel Branden is an atheist.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
whats your favorite title so I can get started?
Exactly RG.... just chill out with us, we are people who share your views and understand the difficult issues that can arise from being an atheist surrounded by a society of god-believers.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
I'm pretty sure that everyone suffers from some form of depression in their life. I know I have and still do on occasion but I've never really let it worry me that much as I think if you accept that it is normal to feel down sometimes it doesn't get you down any further as you know that it will be ok again sooner or later. Sometimes it's hard to project a positive attitude but you just have to stick ijn there. Going out for a walk is often helpful as it physiclly removes you from the situation you are most used to (which is probably what's getting you down) and it allows you time to think freely as well as enjoy the view. My psychiatrist only confirmed what I thought myself and I've never taken drugs to fight depression so I can't comment on their effectiveness but, personally, I would be wary.
"The World is my country, science my religion" - Christiaan Huygens
Nathaniel Branden has several books out now. My favorite is "The Art of Living Consciously - The Power of Awareness to Transform Everyday Life".
Branden says, "Living consciously insists on asking, What are the grounds of your belief? what is the evidence?"
He says:
"Living consciously is a state of being mentally active rather than passive. It is the ability to look at the world through fresh eyes. It is intelligence taking joy in its own function. Living consciously is seeking to be aware of everything that bears on our interests, actions, values, purposes, and goals. It is the willingness to confront facts, pleasant or unpleasant. It is the desire to discover our mistakes and correct them. Within the range of our interests and concerns, it is the quest to keep expanding our awareness and understanding, both of the world external to self and the world within. It is respect for reality and respect for the distinction between the real and unreal. It is the commitment to see what we see and know what we know. It is recognition that the act of dismissing reality is the root of all evil."
He quotes philosopher Mortimer J. Adler who says:
"Of all the serious misfortunes that can befall us while we are alive and not threatened by terminal illness, the most grievous is loss of mind or, more specifically, loss of our intellectual power - our power of rational thought."
Branden's books teach that you can best meet the challenges of life by living in the real world using reason and rational thinking. Once you have confidence that you can effectively meet the challenges of life, you have a healthy self-esteem.
He says:
"Among the many crimes committed against the younger generation, one of the worst is that young people are taught next to nothing about reason, rationality, or the importance of critical thinking."
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
To be blunt, I have to wonder if the psychiatrist or medication will actually *really* help since at the end of the day you're still in this situation... unless of course by medication you mean crack.
When people ask me what the worst part about my wheelchair is I tell them that if their wife is a bitch at least they get to wake up in the morning and go to work. If work sucks, you'll be off in 8 hours. Kids pissing you off - they'll eventually turn 18. However, with my wheelchair there is no break... No matter where I am or what I'm doing there is a constant reminder that I'm paralized.
You mentioned that you left school and work for the move and school isn't an option for a year but what about finding a mentally stimulating job that isn't faith-based? I really think you should either find something that is mentally stimulating, talk to other like-minded people, or somehow sit your wife down and talk to her. It may not be plesant and there might be more than a few uncomfortable nights at home but I assuming there are no other marital differences and you two do have feelings for each other I would hope she could respect you despite these differences.
In stark contrast to Nathaniel Branden's book on how to build self-esteem by reason and rational thinking, here's a few words of advice from a book by Charles F. Stanley, titled - "The Key to Winning Your Spiritual Battles."
"How do the fiery darts of the devil operate in you mind?
First the devil sends a thought. When that happens we have a choice - to reject that thought immediately or to entertain it. If we reject the thought, the devil may send another thought - very quickly or sometime later. At times the thought can come into our minds with such a rush that we feel a hundred flaming arrows have been launched against us. We can feel bombarded.
The devil knows you well or better than you know yourself. If you know your area of weakness, believe me when I tell you that the devil knows the area of weakness too. He has used your repeated giving in to your weakness to create a stronghold in your mind."
Charles F. Stanley is the pastor of the 15,000-member First Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia and is president and CEO of IN TOUCH Ministries. He has twice been elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He has over 10 best selling books.
Charles F. Stanley is the exact opposit of rational thinking. His advice is potentially dangerous to anyone seeking advice for overcoming depression or meeting the challenges of life.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
Although it does sound like you have some genuine issues to work through, I'll offer my two cents on the general topic.
While I've never been a practicing Christian, American culture is sufficiently inundated with its ideology for me to catch some of the run-off. The religion has you take for granted that "meaning" is both an essential concept to fulfillment, and one self-evidently provided by belief in a deity. I think it was Nietzsche who'd said of the English something to the effect that they had abandoned belief in Christianity, only to hold all the more feverishly to Christian morality. The consequence of this is having the impression, however unarticulated, that there is something inferior about life itself -- something dirty and unseemly about the only state of existence we know, when compared to some imaginary thing. You get rid of the imaginary thing, and all you're left with is damaged goods; that crummy kind of existence so derided by the clergy.
In essence, in a Christian culture, one has to learn to love life itself for the first time.
One thing that got me over my neuroses was Dawkins's description, in "The God Delusion," of the dual improbabilities of life itself, and of our individual lives; how lucky we are to exist, contrasted against all the possible ways things could easily have gone.
To borrow from Sagan's concept that we're the cosmos' way for it to "know itself," it's possible we're the first animal on earth to have self-awareness. I find it poetic to imagine the world, after billions of years, to open its eyes for the first time, through us and our awareness.
Believe it or not, another thing that helped me was reading Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" and "The Antichrist," which directly confronted some of the nauseating Christian values instilled in me through American culture. He lays bare how basic values, like the intrinsic worth of life itself, have been inverted by the religion, and helps question the assumptions even non-religious people live with.
Thanks for everything so far everyone.
Sounds like you're in a rough spot and life is kicking your ass a bit. I know what that's like. I can go through fairly extended hits of depression when life takes a beating on me. 2 things will usually kick me out of it: 1) a big change or 2) anger
A big change being something like a job change, a move, something along those lines. That kind of a shake up tends to refocus me.
Anger is probably my best one. Either anger at me for letting a situation get out of control, anger at someone for doing something, anger at a company, whatever it is. I can ride anger for a good 3 months (and still be in a happy mood, not a big grump or anything) and then by the end of that my situation has been changed. Anger tends to cause a big change.
A couple things that I would look at that tend to keep people, myself included, dragged down:
1) Video Games / Chats / anything that is not 'real' and is taking up a dramatic amount of time.
2) Exercise - the more you do the better you'll feel...if you're not exercising or reduced your exercise and are eating worse the extra weight and the negativity about your body and your feeling compounds very quickly.
3) Outside - make sure you are getting out of the house and getting around people...depression tends to feed off itself when you are lonely. If you lack friends, i might suggest trying to find some kind of a social group that you can join if only to be around people even if it's something silly like for board games, book club. sports groups are good since they get #2 as well.
4) Negativity - don't let yourself insult yourself...negativity about yourself sinks in quickly and there is no reason to believe it. have confidence in who you are, regardless of if other people like it.
5) Force a Smile - I know that may sound cheesy, but force yourself to present a positive attitude to others. I find that doing this tends to actually backfire and give me a positive attitude.
You're in a tough spot, but it's probably not the first or last time and you are definitly not the first or last person. Take joy in knowing that what you are going through is perfectly normal, but be proactive in ending it.
I suggest "The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns if you are looking for a self-help book. I know alot of people are skeptical of therapy and that is in large part to what the field has been in the past and the continued cooouks that the television networks find to put on their show.
If you can find a cognitive-behavioral therapist you might see more results. They will help you cope with depression and difficult life situations on your own by teaching you to monitor negative thinking patterns and maladaptive behaviors. As suggested by some on here, a big part that keeps people in depression is being depressed about being depressed. Sometimes if you just accept it, the mood will pass. Hope this was helpful.
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
This sounds alot like Cognitive-behavioral therapy! Some of the major tenets of CBT are teaching rational and reasonable thinking, exmaning evidence, and helping people recognize how they distort reality and use faulty reasoning.
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
I dont. I let it hang around as long as it wants. However I do consume more beer in those time. Something tells me Im going about this the wrong way.
www.garageband.com/artist/abandonmypeace
This is what i look at when i get the blues... Well.. This and other funny stuff
Hey RagenGaijin, give comedy a serious try.
Here's some in song,
Tim Wilson , "But I Could Be Wrong" , a 3 min FUNNY Song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmWZOK5WNCQ
I must add, ... I am a red neck beer drinking city liberal atheist Jesus/Buddha fan who is sick and tired of that silly God of Abraham ..... kinda sorta, hey but I could be wrong .... nah ... not.
"The Booty Song"......Tim Wilson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2yJ46UkXZ0&NR=1
That George Carlin is a healer !
If that don't work, this girl might,
"Wisdom of the Buddha", 8 min, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI
Get over it already. Life is a pain in the ass, for everybody with half a brain .....
Get back .... enjoy an ice cream cone , or whatever ...
Atheism Books.
I have had to cope with deep depression more than once in my life. I did the medication route for a number of years and found it very beneficial in the beginning. My depression recurs this time of year but I have decided not to go back on the medication again unless I get really desperate.
I find that laughing is wonderful therapy. So, I tend to bookmark funny stuff other people share so I can watch/read it whenever I need a laugh.
This link is to a silly, stupid, adolescent music video. But it always makes me laugh, and it adds a little of that cathartic get mad factor too. Hope you enjoy--Don't watch this at work! Adult language (and not much else).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxNgnQ9m30
Too bad stupidity isn't poisonous.
Omnibus, You are WISE
A happy news update is that I have a Job interview on Friday, bad news is its cleaning shitty linens at a hospital. Good news is I've always found having less technical jobs during school makes concentration on studying easier in contrast to being a group leader at a IT company where they literally own you and your life; being on call 24/7 is modern slavery.
**Warning more whining after this line.**
On a side note of Christian hypocrisy I have recently found out that my wife's sister's fiancé that has recently graduated seminary school and is planning on being a youth minister is well on his way to biblical fornication.
I really have to assume that most "Christians" are there for the benefit of being in a group and not for what the bible describes as "giving your whole life to god." There was once a time during my readings that I was so angry with the Christians around me for blatantly ignoring everything the bible says about how they are supposed to live.
Like don't take chances with sin, clothes are a frame for the face. Now I do know that its all moot now but back then they were hypocrites, I can respect a fundi that really believes much more than a Sunday buffet bitch. The ones that would be falling drunk out of a closing strip club only 5 hours before walking church. Talking about AMEN BROTHER!! PRAISE JESUS!!
Our old pastor was an obvious fake. He barley new the bible, new nothing about Islam, no apologetics, he didn't teach manuscript study or church history. He would just sit up there on Sunday with a dumb smile on his face spouting bullshit even by Christian standards. There are 52 Sundays in a year and we got 52 of the same dumb ass "Pray and God will make it better" sermon. By the way, this man made $80,000 a year at a church with less than 150 members.
Your pastor is just a over paid scam artist who is truly a waste of human flesh. What a total prick.
Anyway, here's a quick vid that is IMHO pretty damn funny; it makes me laugh no matter how down I am....
http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/4wmv.htm
Good luck on the interview!