how the hell
Posted on: September 9, 2007 - 11:56am
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how the hell
Hey. Am wondering how to debate theists. Not the kind of "sitting on the fence" ones Richard Dawkins targets, but the real head on religious people.
So far, the only way I can possibly think of, is by making them see a massive contradiction that they are living. Something equivalent to theres an arrow in your ass or something....
But I have absolutley no idea how to even begin formulating an argument like that.
Any ideas?
moi! miten menee? (From South Africa.)
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Hey, welcome to the forums. Well, the really indoctrinated ones you will never be able to get to. In their eyes, the more evidence they ignore, the more virtuous they are. You could begin by pointing out that there is NO evidence for the existence of god. Ask them where god came from. When they reply "He's always been there" respond with "well if you can believe that, why is it so hard for you to believe that the universe has just 'always been there?" When they respond to that by saying the universe is soooooo complex it had to be designed, reply with "oh, that makes sense, the universe is sooooo complex and improbable that you have to invent an even more complex and improbable super being to create it" If you can shut them down on the fact that god does not exist, then all the other arguments don't matter. Check out richard dawkins "the God delusion" or if you want to watch it instead of read it, try and find a video "The root of all evil?" online somewhere. It should be somewhere even though youtube is on a crusade against us.
But I guess the answer to this question requires alot of psychology. First if you can detect the kind of patternt they're thinking about and then find some way to exploit it on thier own grounds.
Is there a psychologist in the house?
Also, thanks for the advice, I got The Root of All Evil? from video.google.com, much better resource than youTube.
moi! miten menee? (From South Africa.)
I have found that when debating Christians, long before I get to this point they usually say, "This is what I believe and you're not going to change my mind. I don't want to talk about this anymore!"
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
Ya, the biggest problem is if they're even willing to talk to you.
I suppose (if its humanly possible) the pluses on your side would be to listen everything they're saying, remain calm and cool, polite and never let yourself go.
Maybe then, its just a matter of attrition, hanging in there....
moi! miten menee? (From South Africa.)
Erinomaisesti, kiitos! Miten itselläsi?
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Why do you wish to debate theists?
I happen to have some theist friends that have tried more than once to convert me. The trouble is, they're really fun and cool guys, so I dont want to throw them away as friends.
moi! miten menee? (From South Africa.)
The same reason theists wish to debate us.
I finally watched Todd Allen Gates's series on debating proselytizers using the Socratic Method. It may be of some interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSaQ0_arSbs
Thanks for the link!
Which is?
I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
Thumbs up!
A want to prove your side right. To not be wrong. To strengthen your knowledge in a subject. To discover more. To think more. To have fun. To learn more. To prove them wrong.
So you assume you are correct in your beliefs. Will debating a theist make your truth more true, make you less wrong?
That'll only happen if you approach it that way.
That can only happen if you are correct. Anyways, wouldn't that contradict your "discover more, think more" goal?
I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
It depends on the subject matter.
This is how it should be approached.
No. The point of debate is two fold.
1. To learn more.
2. To prove them wrong, or, to show that your side is 'more' correct.
Whether it be politics, religion, science (questionable, depends on the area of study), cow milking, video games, whatever... you debate for the reasons I listed.
I also wasn't trying to make some definite statement over why everyone debates. I was making a very small list of reasons why I debate. I'll give an example of why I would debate in every instance.
1: A want to prove your side right. To not be wrong.
A typical gaming debate that more people can relate to than any other (I say this because more people play this game than any other). World of Warcraft. More specifically, Alliance VS Horde. Which is better? Chances are, you want the side you favor to be better SO you will debate to show that your side is better.
2: To strengthen your knowledge in a subject. To discover more. To think more. To have fun. To learn more.
Science, politics, religion, cracker eating, clam consumption, etc.
3: To prove them wrong.
All debates that revolve around emotions with facts. Religion, politics, cracker eating, clam consumption, etc.
But these two points are contradictory. If you want to learn more, you would want to learn not only about your own beliefs but theirs as well. If you were to find yourself on the losing end of a debate, you may be learning a lot, but you would be failing to sufficiantly back up your side. Conversely, if you are just destroying their arguements, you aren't learning much - I assume you knew your arguements beforehand, but you are "winning" your debate.
I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
No, they aren't. In a debate, although you are SUPPOSED to know the opposing side just as well as your own, you generally don't. When you debate, you learn more. However, the point of the debate is to prove them or, or, to show that your side is 'more' correct.