Do YOU believe in a one world government?

Zeeboe
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Do YOU believe in a one world government?

EDIT: Some people here are confused and seem to think that I think that all atheists want a one world government. So I'll change the thread title to make it less confusing and I'm gonna repeat the following five times for you first time readers, and those of you who are a little slow...

I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government.

I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government.

I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government.

I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government.

I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government.

If you would like for me to PM you and tell you this, let me know. I'll gladly tell you the above as many times as you like. The copy and paste tool is everyone's friend, and counting is fun...

Thank you. We now return you to the original thread:

I watch The Night-Line Face-Off very often for some strange reason. Smiling It's a good studying tool I think.

Anyway, at one point in the debate.....and I can't believe I never gave this much thought before...but Kelly (who I'd like to personally thank for being so nice to me in my last thread) talked about wanting a one world government, and I have done some studying on atheism and a one world government, and it would appear that this is a very popular thing that many atheists seem to want.

Even that classic song "Imagine" by John Lennon (who was an atheist) talks about a one world government.....actually, the entire song is about a one world government.

To be quite honest with you, it sent chills down my spine because the bible does say that there will be a one world government some day.

And religion...especially Christianity has been attacked a lot in the past year. Many, many Christians have become atheists and I assume the goal of pro-atheist groups is to eliminate Christianity from the world and the bible even says Christianity will be eliminated from the world some day.

And many atheists have even talked about what life will be like when Christianity is wiped out...many seem to think it will happen some day, due to God not speaking to the world like he did in the bible and because of all the suffering....well, maybe when there are no more Christians, that is when Jesus will come back. When Christianity is long gone and forgotten, and there are only a very, very small group of loyal Christians left and will be looked upon as nutjobs.

Anyone who knows me, knows I am the residential depressed emo atheist and this is not me trying to make myself feel better or try to go back to being a Christian. This is just me telling you guys about some recent studying I did and I promise I would just like to read everyone's thoughts is all. I'm not looking to debate here.


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I do not believe a

I do not believe a one-world government is remotely possible.  In my opinion, there are too many cultures and just too much geography involved.

Can you imagine how the people of Monaco would feel about a one-world government?  They love their monarchy.  How about the Middle East with their system?   Doesn't Japan still have an emperor?  I doubt if he would step down voluntarily.

Just look at how long it takes to hammer out a treaty of any kind when everyone bickers about wording and who gets to sit at a certain place at the table. 

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I don't think it's

I don't think it's desirable, or possible really. Basic guidelines for things like human rights are good, UN intervention when necessary.


JeremiahSmith
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Zeeboe wrote: I have done

Zeeboe wrote:
I have done some studying on atheism and a one world government, and it would appear that this is a very popular thing that many atheists seem to want. Even that classic song "Imagine" by John Lennon (who was an atheist) talks about a one world government.....actually, the entire song is about a one world government.

Er, you're extrapolating from John Lennon to all atheists? "Imagine" is about hoping for a day where no one has any reason to fight or engage in war: that's it. There's nothing in there about one world government, it reads more like he wants a sort of anarchy where people live in peaceful harmony. It'll never happen, sadly, but Lennon isn't advocating anything like the sort of one world government that Christian rapture nutballs get all het up about. 

 

Quote:
To be quite honest with you, it sent chills down my spine because the bible does say that there will be a one world government some day.

Whoop dee shit. The New Testament was written in the area of the Roman Empire, which covered a lot of area. The authors of Revelations and the Gospels probably figured the Romans would conquer the rest of the world eventually, a task made easier by the fact that no one knew about the Americas or Australia or some of the distant parts of Asia or Africa. When your world is tiny and the Romans have a lot of it, prophesying that there'll be a one world government wouldn't take a whole lot of thought.

Quote:
And religion...especially Christianity has been attacked a lot in the past year.

Whoop dee shit. Christianity's been criticized since it came out.  

 

Quote:
Many, many Christians have become atheists

"Many, many"? Atheism is quickly growing but the population of Christians who de-convert is still probably a small percentage of the Christian population. 

 

Quote:
and I assume the goal of pro-atheist groups is to eliminate Christianity from the world

 The goal of pro-atheist groups is to support atheists and help people learn about atheism and the arguments for it. 

Quote:
and the bible even says Christianity will be eliminated from the world some day.

No it doesn't. 

 

Quote:
And many atheists have even talked about what life will be like when Christianity is wiped out...

Like who? 

 

Quote:
many seem to think it will happen some day, due to God not speaking to the world like he did in the bible and because of all the suffering....well, maybe when there are no more Christians, that is when Jesus will come back.

Wait, what? Atheists believe that God stopped speaking to the world and that Jesus will come back when there's no more Christians? You're not making any sense.

Quote:
This is just me telling you guys about some recent studying I did and I promise I would just like to read everyone's thoughts is all. I'm not looking to debate here.

You're giving entirely too much credibility to all of this rapture end-times bullshit. Christians have been predicting the end times for millennia. Every generation of Christians has believed that the true Christians are being persecuted and that the end times are upon us. Most of that "one world government" stuff is the sort of crap you'd see from the Left Behind authors, based on a fucked up theology invented in the 19th century by twisting the Gospels, Revelations, Daniel, and some other random prophecies into incoherence and extracting some sort of end-times map. 

I can't think of many atheists who want a one world government and even if we did get one, it would mean precisely nothing. The Christians would whine and complain and start re-printing Left Behind and maybe they'd even try assassinating some people. But nothing will happen. Jesus won't return, the world won't end. And the world will go on and the world government would fracture back into countries at some point because that's just how things go and Christians all over will say that the government breaking up is a sign of the end and the cycle will begin anew.

Tongue in cheek look at end-time prophecies throughout the centuries. Very good for a laugh and clearly makes the point that Christian prophets of doom are a consistently whiny and consistent wrong lot.

Critical review of Left Behind and the associated theology by a Christian. A little boring in places where the author starts talking about his own Christian beliefs but nonetheless a pretty entertaining and solid takedown of the Left Behind series and the nutjobs who really believe that It'll All Be Over Real Soon Now. 

 

 

 

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qbg
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This atheist doesn't as this

This atheist doesn't as this atheist wants to see decentralization instead of centralization.


MattShizzle
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A 1 world government could

A 1 world government could be a great thing if it was free and non-theistic.


ABx
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I think the idea of a one

I think the idea of a one world government is nice, but I wouldn't want to see it in practice anytime soon. There would just be too much risk of corruption, which would be potentially devestating at that scale. The U.N. is probably the closest thing we will or should see for a while, at least until we can reach a point where there is no need to struggle for resources, disease, food, money and so on. Perhaps once we can eliminate the need to seek aquisition of these things on a grand scale a one world government would be plausible. Until then they will be a motivation for the corrupt.

It's not realistic, however, to think that all athiests have common political beliefs. When you list off the world religions, athiests are essentially "everyone else". It's not like there's any kind of common beliefs or requirements to be an atheist, other than an intellectual dismissal of one particular assertion by others.

 


Zeeboe
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I never said that John

I never said that John Lennon spoke for all atheists, or that all atheists want a one world government. I just said based on the research I have done, and the atheists I've spoken with, many of them seem to want to rid the world of relgion and they also want a one world government and I admit, it does concern me because the bible does say that both of those things will happen one day.The bible also says that non-believers will hate Christians and I know not all non-Christians hate Christians, but a lot of them do. And the bible also says that the words of Jesus will never be forgotten and they haven't.

That's three reasons alone for me to want to make sure I am on the right side. I might as well also admit that I have been reading the evidence bible by Ray Comfort...and it answers some of the hardest questions and objections to Christianity. And the website has some info as well:http://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtmlhttp://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml
I can't stess this enough...because I can see many of you saying this, but I promise this is not me trying to feel better or become a Christian again so I'll be "happy". This all came from research I've recently done. This is a topic I study a lot about and almost everyday I learn something new and I have to present what a learn to both sides and see if they can debunk it, so I can learn the truth.


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Zeeboe, why are you posting

Zeeboe, why are you posting this thread in 'Freethinking Anonymous' if you claiming you are christian again?


Dematrah
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Zeeboe wrote: And the bible

Zeeboe wrote:
And the bible also says that the words of Jesus will never be forgotten and they haven't.

 We haven't reached forever in order to determine whether or not jeebus's words have never been forgotten. Who's to say in another thousand or five thousand years, that they won't be forgotten by then?

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Not_Your_Therapist
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Zeeboe wrote: I watch The

Zeeboe wrote:
I watch The Night-Line Face-Off very often for some strange reason. Smiling It's a good studying tool I think.

Now you're talking. Though from your posts, I'd like to know: What do you think it is a good studying tool *for*?

Zeeboe wrote:
Anyway, at one point in the debate.....and I can't believe I never gave this much thought before...but Kelly (who I'd like to personally thank for being so nice to me in my last thread) talked about wanting a one world government, and I have done some studying on atheism and a one world government, and it would appear that this is a very popular thing that many atheists seem to want.

I've not heard that a one world gov't is popular with atheists. Where did you read this? Is this an idea from general observations or is there a specific place where a group of atheists are talking about a one world gov't?

Zeeboe wrote:
Even that classic song "Imagine" by John Lennon (who was an atheist) talks about a one world government.....actually, the entire song is about a one world government.

Well, Lennon is awesome.

Zeeboe wrote:
To be quite honest with you, it sent chills down my spine because the bible does say that there will be a one world government some day.

Now here is where your bible knowledge trumps mine.

Zeeboe wrote:
And religion...especially Christianity has been attacked a lot in the past year. Many, many Christians have become atheists and I assume the goal of pro-atheist groups is to eliminate Christianity from the world and the bible even says Christianity will be eliminated from the world some day.

Recently, mainstream publishers have taken the leap to publish books on atheism. There have been a lot more books published recently, said books are selling, so more publishers are publishing. The thing that gets me is when newscasters call this an "atheism fad" - yeah right. Do you think all of this research you've done, all of the stuff you have gone through in the past few months, is part of a "fad"? just a "phase?" I find that insulting.

I am sure some atheists and atheist groups want religion eliminated from the world, but I think those people are in the minority. I am only speaking for myself here, but I don't care if people practice religion. I do care that people assume I believe in god unless told otherwise. I do care that people believe Jesus is coming and therefore they see no reason to take care of the environment. I do care that children are being told that if they sin against god then they will burn for eternity - I consider that mental abuse. I care because atheists are descriminated against. I care because if I admit that I am an athist in my professional Occupational Therapy practice, the physician who tends to my clients will probably not assign clients to me fairly. So, I want to end the descrimination, abuse, and assumptions that come along with and are inseperable from religion. Atheists also seek to promote rational thought above emotional thought.

Have you read the "I am every Atheist" essays on this site? They are very good at explaining the athist position, which is, by the way, not a single position.

Zeeboe wrote:
And many atheists have even talked about what life will be like when Christianity is wiped out...many seem to think it will happen some day, due to God not speaking to the world like he did in the bible and because of all the suffering....well, maybe when there are no more Christians, that is when Jesus will come back.

Are you sure you're an atheist? You seem... torn. Is it that you want to believe in god/christianity/jesus, but just can't? If so, I am sure a lot of folks on this site who have been deconverted can relate. I hope that someday you will be proud of your atheism.

I know you don't have a car, but have you tried to connect with some local atheists in person? www.meetup.com might have a group listed in your area. There is an atheist meetup here in St. louis which I attend every other week. The people there are wonderful, caring, open... You might get to feel like you are part of their community.

Zeeboe wrote:
When Christianity is long gone and forgotten, and there are only a very, very small group of loyal Christians left and will be looked upon as nutjobs. Anyone who knows me, knows I am the residential depressed emo atheist and this is not me trying to make myself feel better or try to go back to being a Christian. This is just me telling you guys about some recent studying I did and I promise I would just like to read everyone's thoughts is all. I'm not looking to debate here.

I hope I did not come off as trying to debate you in any of my comments. If so, then I apologize, as that is not my intention.

 

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A good scientist will always change her mind if new evidence is presented which gives her sufficient reason to change it.
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Zeeboe
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Oh, you guys....BGH

Oh, you guys....

BGH wrote:
Zeeboe, why are you posting this thread in 'Freethinking Anonymous' if you claiming you are christian again?

I ask some questions and you just assume I am a Christian? This is the second time this has happened. I want atheist answers and ONLY atheist answers.

I'll say it one more time for good measure...

I posted this thread here because I want the answers of atheists only. But I'd like to drop the current topic if I may for just a minute and ask something else.

Some of you seem hostile. Why is that? I'm not trying to anger or offend anyone. But it seems like every time I ask some questions, I get this kind of response. I'm not looking for trouble here. I appreciate how kind you guys have been to me and would never want to try and take your kindness for granted and appear to be walking on you all.

All I am wanting to do is get educated. I realize this isn't a school, but this is a smart group of people and I didn't think it'd be a problem to ask a few questions.

Since this already happened before and since I don't want it to happen again, if this thread is pushing some of your buttons, I'll gladly bow out and we can drop this and we can all move on. I'll still do my studying and ask questions to others, but you guys were there for me and I owe you one, so if you want me to shut up, just type..."Zeeboe....shut up".

Eye-wink


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I am not hostile. Try not

I am not hostile. Try not to be so defensive, it does not assist your queries here.

I visited your myspace page after reading your latest post and saw that you have changed your religion from agnostic to 'christian - other'.

That is why I asked the question, because 'christian - other' is not allowed to post in 'Freethinking Anonymous'.  

I am not going to type "Zeeboe... shut up" (yet), I am just asking for honesty. There are rules on the message boards and they need to be followed for the benefit of everyone. If you are a christian or any type of theist as your myspace page states, then you are not allowed to post in this forum. How is that hostile?

 


Zeeboe
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I won't lie to you and

.....I won't lie to you and pretend I made an error when I changed my status. You guys deserve more respect then that. I like the title "Christian - other" because it literally is the only thing on there that declares you are both. But I changed it. If I was Christian, I doubt I'd be posting here at all. But I'm begging you.....please believe me when I say I am an other or agnostic or whatever you wanna call it. I'm not your enemy. I'm not trying to convert anyone or challenge anyone. Again, I posted this thread here because I desired atheist answers only.I appear to be defensive right now because you're kinda tell me this isn't my turf...........like I am a member of a rival gang and I am just trying my darnest to convince you I'm not and I don't think you believe me....Look, I've spoken with other atheists online in private and I know for the most part, a lot of you guys have a "you're with us or against us" attitude. And for the most part, my private chats with atheists are usually a lot more pleasant. So again, if you want..we can drop this and whenever I have a question about atheism, I'll ask a friend privately and not in front of everyone.I can understand why some of you might naturally take offense to this because this is in public, open forum and one might just naturally think the guy with the questions might appear that he wants to debate...after all, it's in front of everyone and I think self-consciously some of you assume that the questioner is looking for a fight since he's asking questions for all to see. So it might be wise to just ask friends, because I think if some of you knew me a lot better, you wouldn't give my questions a second thought and you'd see for yourself that I am not a threat and the thought of asking me what I am being asked would never be even thought about.I will remind everyone again that atheism is very, very new to me...like life is new to a small child and like a small child, I have a trillion questions. And everytime you think you answered them all, I come back with a trillion more. However, I know that can get annoying and I'm not a child (I know better) and no one here is my Mommy or Daddy, so I promise not to treat anyone as such.So let's just drop this. I'll take these questions elsewhere, cause I can already see this thread not going over too well. I should have known better, honest fuck up on my part. As they say out on the street..."my bad". Maybe a mod can close this thread if they don't mind please.


BGH
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Again.....  I will tell

Again.....  I will tell you, it isn't about the questions you are asking. Ask whatever you feel like.

I ONLY asked because the answer to the religion question changed on your page. DO NOT irritate me by putting words in my mouth or twisting my words. I am modding these forums and part of my duties it to make sure theists are not posting in "Freethinking Anonymous". 

You answered the question sufficiently enough for me right now, but you are not going to come across very convincing when you are so defensive. The thread does not need to be closed, you can continue with your inquiries but if your theistic stance changes I hope you will be honest about it and realize you will no longer be allowed to post in this particular portion of the website.... capiche?

 

 


lester ballard
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Can't see a connection

Can't see a connection here. Nonbelievers have diverse political views. No lockstep on world government for sure.

I'd guess a large number of the Christian Right yearn for an Iranian-style government, only Christian.

Rejection of mideast religion doesn't mean support of any specific political or socio-economic theory. It's simply freedom of thought.


djneibarger
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i don't think that one world

i don't think that one world government is really possible, but i'll admit i haven't given it a lot of thought. my primary concern is getting organized religion out of the american governing process, as well as the american educational system.

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


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Dematrah wrote: We haven't

Dematrah wrote:
We haven't reached forever in order to determine whether or not jeebus's words have never been forgotten. Who's to say in another thousand or five thousand years, that they won't be forgotten by then?

 

Yep. Fast forward twenty thousand years. If the human race has survived, few, if any, will have ever heard of Jesus. Or for that matter, Abe Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Walt Disney, Margaret Thatcher, John Lennon, or Albert Einstein.

Time erases everything.

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Zeeboe wrote: I never said

Zeeboe wrote:
I never said that John Lennon spoke for all atheists, or that all atheists want a one world government. I just said based on the research I have done, and the atheists I've spoken with, many of them seem to want to rid the world of relgion and they also want a one world government and I admit, it does concern me because the bible does say that both of those things will happen one day.


Why does it concern you when these prophecies are things any idiot living in Roman times could come up with? Where does the Bible say there will be no more religion and where does it say there will be one world government? And, again, why would it be unreasonable for an author living in Roman times to look at the state of the world and conclude that Rome would continue to take it over?

Quote:
The bible also says that non-believers will hate Christians and I know not all non-Christians hate Christians, but a lot of them do.


Most atheists don't hate Christians; they hate Christianity and what it's done, and want Christians to not be part of that. The Gospels and their associated prophecies were all written after Nero started his persecution of Christians; it's not really much of a prophecy if you write it after the events you're prophesying already happened.

Quote:
And the bible also says that the words of Jesus will never be forgotten and they haven't.


First, where does it say that? Secondly, this is an obvious self-fulfilling prophecy. It's kind of clever, actually. If you remember the prophecy then you probably remember the words along with it, whereas if you've forgotten the prophecy it doesn't matter either way whether you remember the words. It's about one step removed from saying "This prophecy will always be remembered." There could have been dozens of minor religions sprouting up at the same time, all of them believing they'd never be forgotten and all of them were. And, if we're being pedantic, most of Christ's words have been forgotten, if he even spoke words in the first place. There's no way of knowing which of Christ's words in the Gospels were original to him and which were created by later authors, and even if all of his words in the Gospels were authentic, there's still very little of his ministry recorded. (Christians like saying that for all of Christ's supposed thirty-three years of life there's only about two hours of ministry.)

Quote:
That's three reasons alone for me to want to make sure I am on the right side.


Your three reasons are the sorts of prophecies you'd get from Sylvia Browne or a phone psychic:
1) Predicting a one world government when the hated nemesis of the Christians, the Romans, almost had one already.
2) Predicting that Christians would be persecuted when the prophecy was written after the persecution started.
3) Predicting that Christ's words would never be forgotten when it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that's technically not very true anyway.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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The ideologies of most

The ideologies of most modern day religions (especially the monotheistic ones) have a carrot and stick approach to their religion.  This approach provides the religion its power and influence. Believe in us and you attain immortality, etc.  Deny us and you burn in eternal hell w/ the infidels (meaning anyone who denies or disagrees with us).  You just can't underestimate the power of fear as a motivational tool.  This approach claims to hold the exclusive "truth" and therein is always exclusionary by its nature.  This also makes it xenophobic.

What could be more threatening to monotheism/religion's power and influence than all of the races/cultures trying to get along under a system of rule independent of them?

The bible is full of defense mechanisms designed to protect itself from any competing thoughts or ideas.  Despite the new testament writers/editors desperately trying to make the OT prophecies fit the new, the bible has done remarkably poor, prophecy-wise.

I don't think ridding the world of religion is realistic, nor is it the goal of most atheists I know.  Ridding the world of dogma that cannot be questioned is another thing entirely.

And I would agree with Susan.  I don't think a one-world government is realistic. but I'd like to think humans will stop killing one another indiscriminately someday.  Call me a dreamer.

  

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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Zeeboe wrote: I might as

Zeeboe wrote:
I might as well also admit that I have been reading the evidence bible by Ray Comfort...and it answers some of the hardest questions and objections to Christianity. And the website has some info as well:http://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtmlhttp://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml

PPsssst, Zeeboe.  Ray Comfort isn't exactly what anyone would call a good resource for anything.

If you watched the Nightline debate, that should be a pretty big clue and he is not to be taken seriously.

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mrjonno
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Really not sure what

Really not sure what atheism (or religion for that matter) has to do with 'one world goverment'

Hitchens is pretty right wing

Dawkins (Liberal Democract, UK political party centrish party)

and I'm sure there are left wing atheists out there too.

No god means human beings have to sort out the world not sky fairies and there are 6 billion opinions out there on how to do it

 

 

 


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JeremiahSmith wrote: Your

JeremiahSmith wrote:


Your three reasons are the sorts of prophecies you'd get from Sylvia Browne or a phone psychic:
1) Predicting a one world government when the hated nemesis of the Christians, the Romans, almost had one already.
2) Predicting that Christians would be persecuted when the prophecy was written after the persecution started.
3) Predicting that Christ's words would never be forgotten when it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that's technically not very true anyway.

ha! Nice. 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


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RickRebel wrote: Dematrah

RickRebel wrote:

Dematrah wrote:
We haven't reached forever in order to determine whether or not jeebus's words have never been forgotten. Who's to say in another thousand or five thousand years, that they won't be forgotten by then?

 

Yep. Fast forward twenty thousand years. If the human race has survived, few, if any, will have ever heard of Jesus. Or for that matter, Abe Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Walt Disney, Margaret Thatcher, John Lennon, or Albert Einstein.

Time erases everything.

Well it's possible for these things to be remembered by humans. It just kind of depends on how long our technology used for record keeping lasts. And if, you know, a bunch of crazy jackasses don't just try to erase it.

"I, on the other hand, do not feel it necessary to construct a lofty meaning for myself. I prefer the style of the butterfly myself. I will eat what I want, flit about aimlessly, and enjoy the sunshine. Then, I will die. " - Nero, RRS Forum User


latincanuck
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    Since i am wadding in

    Since i am wadding in late into this one....as an atheist, no i do not believe in a one world goverment, for 2 major reasons, 1 i doubt it will ever work, far to many differences between cultures, countries and continents for this to work. 2, corruption, we humans are corruptable with power, just imagine a person in charge of the WORLD, maybe a councel (sp?) made up of various member from each continent, country, but serious then how would the vote system work out etc etc etc, to many factors for one world goverment, hell even the UN doesn't work properly.


richard955
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If one world government will

If one world government will lead to less war and more debate, than I'm in favor. On the other hand, we are far from having the politicians that can make it work.

A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics.


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Atheists get blamed for

Atheists get blamed for everything. It doesnt suprise me that the accusation exists that atheists want a one world government. Patently absurd.

Just as with any other label, there is not 100% agreement amongst atheists. I dont know where the original poster got their information from, but I wouldnt be suprised if it was froma bias theistic source.

It is easy to look down on a label once you demonize it.

It has been my personal experiance that there are practical things one can work toward, and utopias that dont exist. Christianity and Islam have the same goal of world domination. If anything would lead itself in that direction religion is far more built to sell that idea.

Worship of any kind, be it over a party, a state, or holy person creates  a "wordview" attitude.

There are people, be they conservitive Christian or liberal Muslim or liberal atheist, that subscribe to the idea that "offensive" speach should not be protected.

There are just as many in each group that would disire to protect "offensive" speech and dissenting views".

As far as a one world government, that is a cock and bull story that fearmongers on the right use to equate atheists to hilter and stalin.

We have more to worry about with religion globaly and the global class warfare where weath becomes more concentrated and media more controled. But that is a humanitarian issue that affects the entire planet.

The idea that  6 billion people can be controled by one goverement is just as absurd as thinking Jesus or Allah or Ellen Johnson are the boss of everyone.

The days of Dominionism are dead. Our planet is too small and too diverse for anyone group to think that only they and their view has the right to be the law of the globe.

Where you got your info that most atheists want a one world government is suspect and I wouldnt lend it any credance.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37
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richard955 wrote: If one

richard955 wrote:
If one world government will lead to less war and more debate, than I'm in favor. On the other hand, we are far from having the politicians that can make it work.

 Not only is it an absurd idea, there will never be politicians that can make it work. What power grabbers never seem to realize is that they may not always have those they want in power.

Lets say we get a one world government, your version of wich politicians "will make it work" is going to be different from the Catholics, to the Jews, to the Muslims.

I am quite sure any world dominance by any one group might make some happy but will at the same time oppress others. Under Sadamn's Sunni rule there was little crime commited by the citizens because the governement commited brutal crime to keep the citizens submissive.

We will never agree as a speicies, even if we were all the same label. So living under one government is no only impractical, but a dangerous goal for any label to work toward. 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Ladies and gentlemen, I

Susan wrote:
Zeeboe wrote:
I might as well also admit that I have been reading the evidence bible by Ray Comfort...and it answers some of the hardest questions and objections to Christianity. And the website has some info as well:http://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtmlhttp://www.evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml

PPsssst, Zeeboe. Ray Comfort isn't exactly what anyone would call a good resource for anything.

If you watched the Nightline debate, that should be a pretty big clue and he is not to be taken seriously.

Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron both admit that they could have done better, and now that I have been reading Comfort's book...I agree he could have done much better in the debate. But they are only human and will make mistakes. I agree that the RRS won the debate, and in my humble opinion it's because Ray and Kirk greatly underestimated them. Hopefully Ray and Kirk learned their lesson.

 

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot stress this enough.....I do not think...(nor did I ever say)...that ALL atheists want a one world government......as for some biblical passages....well, I know many of you here do not consider the Holy Bible to be a reliable source but because I was asked, here are some random quotes I found online that talk about a new world order..."At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." - Matthew 24:11 "A new world order with peace on earth, after the Battle of Armageddon, in the New Jerusalem. A thousand years of peace and prosperity on earth, after Armageddon, followed by another Armageddon. A city called the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. The New Jerusalem has twelve gates, and the walls have precious stones." - Revelation 21-22"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." - 2 Peter 2:3,4."It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him." - Revelation 13:7."He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." - Daniel 7:25"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold." - Matthew 24:12.
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." - 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. "And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear" - Revelation 13:5"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?” - Revelation 13
I know a lot of that sounds like a fairy tale, but you have to remember that in that time, that was how people spoke. Another poster on a forum said..."Concerning any source that is old the meanings can be interpretated in many ways, some interpretations can seem wild and almost crazed but some can have meaning in many cultures and ages, for example when one person sees the words 'great beast' in a old prophecy or book, one person could view it in the meaning that there could be a great monster (horns, claws etc) but in modern times we could view it as a powerful nation or alliance." [MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]


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Zeeboe wrote: Ladies and

Zeeboe wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot stress this enough.....I do not think...(nor did I ever say)...that ALL atheists want a one world government......as for some biblical passages....well, I know many of you here do not consider the Holy Bible to be a reliable source but because I was asked, here are some random quotes I found online that talk about a new world order..."At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." - Matthew 24:11 "A new world order with peace on earth, after the Battle of Armageddon, in the New Jerusalem. A thousand years of peace and prosperity on earth, after Armageddon, followed by another Armageddon. A city called the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. The New Jerusalem has twelve gates, and the walls have precious stones." - Revelation 21-22"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." - 2 Peter 2:3,4."It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him." - Revelation 13:7."He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." - Daniel 7:25"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold." - Matthew 24:12.
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." - 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. "And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear" - Revelation 13:5"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?” - Revelation 13
I know a lot of that sounds like a fairy tale, but you have to remember that in that time, that was how people spoke. Another poster on a forum said..."Concerning any source that is old the meanings can be interpretated in many ways, some interpretations can seem wild and almost crazed but some can have meaning in many cultures and ages, for example when one person sees the words 'great beast' in a old prophecy or book, one person could view it in the meaning that there could be a great monster (horns, claws etc) but in modern times we could view it as a powerful nation or alliance."

Tribalisitic writing by people high on opiets and halucenegenic mushrooms is nothing to base modern life on.

There is absolutly nothing in the bible, torrah or Quran that has one lick of accuracy in predicting anything about modern life, much less predicting anything at all at any period of time.

"monster" is a vauge word and can be applied to any person or nation.  "America is the big snake" so some Muslim Zealots claim and base their absurdity on the quran claiming that it predicts that America is the cause of the word's problems.

If that were the case, then the Quran would say, "George Bush Jr will invade Iraq and kill (specific number) of Muslims during (a dated specific period).

Religous nuts both Christians and Muslims and even Kabballah are attempts to prop up myth as a way to predict the future and the reality is that it is nothing more than the reader retrofiting what they want to see after the fact.

If a holy book said, "The Lamborginni will be invented on this date in this year by this person". If a holy book said, "A scientist named Albert Einstien will write the formula E=MC2 on this date(m/d/y) then it would make me think.

What really goes on is that people take vauge words that are meaningless and try to make work of fiction mean something to them so they can get a fictional super hero in the sky to visit them in their lifetime. Since the first generations off all these holy books, generation after generation people have claimed that their book(incert religion here) is equal to a microscope or yardstick in mesuring the world around them.

It is as nonsensical as a Ouiji board, tarrot cards and cronology. Religion is mental alchamy. It is a placebo, but not a benign placebo. It is a placebo that may benifit the club, but is dangerous to humanity as whole because the club becomes a gang in wanting that placebo to be the placebo for the rest of humanity.

It sickens me to hear a Muslim or Christian or Jew, foam at the mouth over a "final battle" where outsiders, even if their only crime is dissent, will be crushed by their superman in the sky.

For te believer(incert label here) to get into their utopia it requires dad to soak all others in blood and viciously make them suffer for eternity.

I am not saying I believe this tyranical crap, of course I do not. But it is because others(of all labels) want dad to punish dissent that they will go to great lenghts to justify their holy books, including making crap up about what is going on today claiming that it was predicted in a holy book.

What kind of god does the Muslim, Jew or Christian worship that cant do it's own dirty work without getting humans involved? Your god must be a pussy if it needs you to kill others or threaten others on his behalf. Tell the asshole to get of his butt and show his face. Tell the prick to stop being a coward allowing humans to kill in competition for his love.

I of course, make that demand in vein. That would be like asking my purple snarfwidget to make kegs of beer for me.

Humans do this to each other and god is a fictional being that people want to exist which allows them to kill over this work of fiction. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Zeeboe
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Like I said before, just

Like I said before, just because we may think God is a bully doesn't mean we should not worship Him. Infact, I think that's all the more reason to fear and submit to Him. I would never become an atheist just because I think God is a tyrant. That encourages me to become a Christian actually. If the Christian God is the one true God then I would rather worship Him then be against Him.

According to the Christian belief, God gives people free will. People can love each other or kill each other. I don't think we should blame God just because most people would rather kill each other. And if God is real and you believed in Him and followed His laws, then you go to Heaven, which is much better then earth so I've read, so dying is not a bad thing if you are a Christian. And the killers and all the other people who sinned against God will get their proper punishments when they die.

There are many things in life that I do not understand, but I don't think we're suppose to have all knowledge. That would explain the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge and why having knowledge or wanting to have all the answers to life is a bad thing. And that is why the bible says one is supposed to have a child like faith in Jesus and not question.

I hate to get off topic, but I did so I might as well post this too....this is from Ray Comfort's book, "The Evidence Bible" in regards of the contradictions in the bible.

"The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27)."

It sounds to me like if you are Christian, you have to be humble and have that childlike faith in the bible and in God no matter what, and if you are proud and not humble and are trying to gain all knowledge on all subjects and refuse to soften your heart, you won't hear the voice of God.

Also, a Christian friend once told me trying to understand the mind of God is like an ant trying to understand our minds.

If the Christian God is the real God, it seems like that in life (in regards of how we all think and who is the smartest) it kinda goes like this:

1. Bugs, animals and fish

2. Humans

3. God

As far as killing in the name of God is concerned,

Ray Comfort talks about that in his book actually.

"Religion has caused more wars than anything else in history."

"It is true that man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had "God with us" engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. America said, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." The law may even allow you to start the Christian Nazi Party, if you so desire. You can become a "reverend" for a few dollars through the tabloid classifieds and then further your political agenda with the world’s blessing, no matter how much it smears the name of Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 16:2,3 that there will be some who, in their error, commit atrocities and murder in the name of God: "The time is coming that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service." However, He informs us that these are not true believers: "And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." (See also 1 John 3:15.)

Jesus told His followers to love their enemies. So if a man puts a knife into someone’s back in the name of Christianity, something obviously isn’t right. If we human beings can detect it, how much more will God? He will deal with it on Judgment Day.
"

Add that to the third thing Jesus has said and has come true so far. From predicting that people will hate Christians, to predicting that His words will never be forgotton and predicting that people will kill in His name. He's been right three times now. Debate it all you want, but it's true.

I'm starting to think I was never a true Christian to begin with.


JeremiahSmith
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Zeeboe wrote: Ladies and

Zeeboe wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot stress this enough.....I do not think...(nor did I ever say)...that ALL atheists want a one world government......as for some biblical passages....well, I know many of you here do not consider the Holy Bible to be a reliable source but because I was asked, here are some random quotes I found online that talk about a new world order...


Again, why is this relevant? At the time the Christians were writing, they thought the new world order was going to happen in their lifetimes. Every generation of Christians has watched political upheavals and thought "This is the big one!" As prophecies go, it's little more than saying "Things will change!"

Quote:
"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." - Matthew 24:11


This has always happened. Every generation of Christians has had to deal with false prophets and apostates, including the very first Christians. The Book of Acts mentions a few false prophets.

Quote:
"A new world order with peace on earth, after the Battle of Armageddon, in the New Jerusalem. A thousand years of peace and prosperity on earth, after Armageddon, followed by another Armageddon. A city called the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. The New Jerusalem has twelve gates, and the walls have precious stones." - Revelation 21-22


Obvious paraphrase of the relevant text. Come on.

Quote:
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." - 2 Peter 2:3,4.


Critics of Christianity have been asking this for millennia. The fact that they've been asking it for millennia is a pretty good indication that Christ isn't coming back. The Christians have been sitting at the table with the check for hours, certain that Jesus really is still in the bathroom like he said he was.

Quote:
"It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him." - Revelation 13:7.


This is talking about the Beast of Revelation, which has ten horns and seven heads and why on earth are you taking it seriously? And, again, why could this phrase not have been written about the Romans? Any generation can point to some political figure and claim he's the Beast who will rule the world and usher in the End Times: Napoleon, Hitler, the UN, probably pretty much every European king. Why, out of all the times the Christians' dire warnings have failed, should we consider it any more likely that the end times are today?

Quote:
"He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." - Daniel 7:25


This wasn't even written by a Christian, and it's more nonsense about beasts and horns. Again, it's not prophecy to predict that someone will persecute your religion, especially when you are a Jew writing about the Babylonian Exile four or five centuries after the fact.

Quote:
"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold." - Matthew 24:12.


Astounding. Every generation has thought that the current generation is more lawless than the previous one. These aren't prophecies, these are damn fortune cookies.

Quote:
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." - 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4.


You are aware that this was supposed to happen during the lifetime of the author of Thessalonians, right? They all thought that the end would come in their lifetimes. So has every generation of Christians since, two thousand years later.

Quote:
"And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear" - Revelation 13:5


1) You said this one already.
2) It's about a beast. With ten horns and seven heads.
3) It's probably a symbolic reference to the Romans.
4) Why are you taking this nonsense seriously?

Quote:
"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?” - Revelation 13


Yawn. It's that damn beast again.

Quote:
I know a lot of that sounds like a fairy tale, but you have to remember that in that time, that was how people spoke.


No it isn't. The Roman, Jewish, and Greek historians managed to write quite clearly. I don't recall Josephus talking about beasts with horns and head wounds when he really meant to talk about some Jewish scribe's political troubles or something.

Quote:
Another poster on a forum said...
"Concerning any source that is old the meanings can be interpretated in many ways, some interpretations can seem wild and almost crazed but some can have meaning in many cultures and ages, for example when one person sees the words 'great beast' in a old prophecy or book, one person could view it in the meaning that there could be a great monster (horns, claws etc) but in modern times we could view it as a powerful nation or alliance."


A prophecy that is so vague and symbolic as to be interpretable in a dozen different ways by a dozen different cultures in a dozen different periods of time is absolutely useless. The scholarly concensus on the book of Revelations is that it is a coded message to Christians about the Romans. You remember the Romans, right? Well, they were persecuting the Christians and the like, and the book of Revelations was supposed to be about how God would overthrow the Romans and usher in a new era for all those who believed in Christ. It was written in symbols so that the Romans wouldn't know it was subversive propaganda and instead think it was the ravings of a lunatic. Obviously, God did not overthrow the Romans like it says in the book of Revelation, and so centuries of Christians have held out hope that it's all going to come true Real Soon Now.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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I actually think a globally

I actually think a globally unifying government is nearly unavoidable as technology shrinks the globe and blurs cultural and national lines.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Not only is it an absurd idea, there will never be politicians that can make it work. What power grabbers never seem to realize is that they may not always have those they want in power.

How is this any different than the present world of multiple governmental systems? At present, many live in places where they do not have those they want in power. I am one of them. This will always be the case no matter the scale of the governmental system and to think it would be more problematic on the global scale seems to me to be unfounded.

Quote:
Lets say we get a one world government, your version of wich politicians "will make it work" is going to be different from the Catholics, to the Jews, to the Muslims.

And right now my opinion is different than those same peoples allliving within the US. Why do you think, when it works on a national scale, it would be different on a global scale?

Quote:
I am quite sure any world dominance by any one group might make some happy but will at the same time oppress others.

Why do you equate a globally unifying government with 'world dominance by one group'? I would imagine many who support a globally unifying government are not wanting a dictatorship or some idealistically dogmatic oppressive regime but a democracy of sorts; something parlimentary or a representative republic. 

 

Quote:
Under Sadamn's Sunni rule there was little crime commited by the citizens because the governement commited brutal crime to keep the citizens submissive.

Yes. I doubt anyone wants Saddam to lead a globally unifying government. Especially since he is dead.

Quote:
We will never agree as a speicies, even if we were all the same label. So living under one government is no only impractical, but a dangerous goal for any label to work toward.

I can not see why you seed to think that what works well on the national scale can not be applied to the global  scale. There does not seem to be any legitimate reason for making this assumption.

 

 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


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Well, I never said I took

Well, I never said I took it seriously. I'm just seeing if you guys can debunk what I'm putting out here.

I also found the quote from Peter to be disturbing. He's clearly saying people will turn away from Christ because they are tired of waiting for Him to return and that has happened.

I think if Jesus did come back today, people would think He came back too soon. A Christian would argue that God is trying to save as many people as He can, and if Jesus comes back, that means the human race gets one final chance and those that do accept Christ during that final chance will have to die and I don't think God wants that to happen just yet. I think He wants people to have more time.

If the rapture is real, then I highly doubt it will happen in this life time..but the seeds are being planet. I say that because Christianity is under attack and because no one has seen any major evidence..i.e. God speaking to us from the sky or people coming back from the dead, etc, etc. People will turn from God and become atheists and I think in due time, Christianity will die out and when it's long gone and forgotten, that is when Jesus will return.

IF it's all true that is.

And as I said, the fact that some atheists want a one world government, that Christianity is being attacked...not to mention all the insanity over in the middle east that has been going on forever, and the quotes I am reading from the bible makes me think I owe it to myself to continue study religion and ask the hard questions.

 The bible has predicited things that come true. i.e. The three things Jesus said and what Peter said about people turning away from Christ because God has not made Himself known in the world.

The things I have mentioned disturb me because they are all true.

I know some of you don't like that I am doing this, and I'm sorry but if there's once chance in a million that what Christians are saying is true, we all owe it to ourselves to study religion and ask both Christians and non-Christians all the hard questions.


magilum
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You've got to be kidding me.

You've got to be kidding me.


Faidros
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I dont.  I think it is a

I dont. 

I think it is a strange question though as there is only one thing all atheists have in common - we dont belive in a god.

Welcome to Sweden. The country where 85% are atheists and the crime rate are among the lowest in the world.


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...............For the

...............For the FINAL time, I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government. One more time.......for good measure....I DO NOT think all atheists want a one world government. Do I need to announce this over the Rational Response Squad PA? Maybe we should put a sticky thread up on every forum with it being titled "Zeeboe does not think all atheists want a one world government." Maybe we should ask Brian if he is willing to make that announcement every show, every five minutes for the next ten years so some of you can get it through your heads.This is the last time I'm gonna say this. If anyone else makes the same mistake then they're just going to have to live with this annoyance thinking everyone believes atheists want a one world government.I asked a question in this thread. Show me where I said that I believe all atheists want a one world government.I have visual dyslexia and I can read better then some of you.If you're going to be involved in this thread, I'd really, really appreciate it if you read most of the messages here. That's not an order, but a very simple request. I apologize if I'm being harsh but this is starting to get a little frustrating. Infact, I am starting to think some of you are doing this on purpose. Infact, the next person who makes that same mistake, I'm just gonna laugh em;' off and assume they are trying to be annoying.


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Some of the posts here

Some of the posts here state that it is impossible to have a one world government. I don't think so. It is going to take time, but just take a look at Europe. Who would have predicted a century ago that France and Germany would transfer some of their power to a central organization that regulates the economy, laws, social issues, etc. for almost all of Europe? Yes, we do have a lot of disagreements, especially now since the EU got many new members, but I'm optimistic that these problems will be solved like all other problems we had in the past. The connections between these countries in the EU make it almost impossible that the European countries will ever again be at war with each other. This alone makes it worth the effort.

I try to imagine this on a bigger scale: Maybe I watched too much StarTrek, but I do like the idea of all people living peacefully together, with the same living standards, same opportunities, etc., and I think that this can be achieved only if there is some central organization which takes care of what happens on a global scale.


JeremiahSmith
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Zeeboe wrote: Well, I never

Zeeboe wrote:
Well, I never said I took it seriously. I'm just seeing if you guys can debunk what I'm putting out here.


You sound very much like you're trying to talk yourself into believing in the Rapture.

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I also found the quote from Peter to be disturbing. He's clearly saying people will turn away from Christ because they are tired of waiting for Him to return and that has happened.


It already happened. That's why the verse was written in the first place! Even in the early days of Christianity, people were starting to grow tired of hearing that Jesus Would Return Real Soon Now and nothing happening. Peter is telling his fellow Christians not to worry about the scoffers; in a bit of public relations spin, he's not only saying that the scoffers are wrong, he's saying that this is supposed to happen before Jesus comes back! There's no divine inspiration here, only Peter knowing just what to say to keep people from leaving the faith because Jesus was late. It's the equivalent of a man who trips over his shoelace and gets up saying "I meant to do that!"

The verse in question isn't even intended as a prophecy. It's intended to be a statement to Peter's fellow Christians, reassuring them that they Really Truly Honestly were living in the end days, and pointing to the scoffers as proof. The only reason it's taken as a prophecy is because things haven't changed in two millennia. Jesus still hasn't come back and so accordingly there are still scoffers.

Again, this is not something that would be totally unpredictable to mortals. All it would take for Peter to write those verses is the growing realization that Jesus ain't back yet and people are getting pissed. That's it.

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I think if Jesus did come back today, people would think He came back too soon. A Christian would argue that God is trying to save as many people as He can, and if Jesus comes back, that means the human race gets one final chance and those that do accept Christ during that final chance will have to die and I don't think God wants that to happen just yet. I think He wants people to have more time.


God is trying to save as many people as he can? He's omnipotent. "As many people as he can" means every single person who ever has lived, is living, or ever will exist. All of this Rapture business is nonsense; if God wants to save everyone, he doesn't need to dick around with a Rapture that's been in the works for two thousand years.

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If the rapture is real, then I highly doubt it will happen in this life time..


Then you're one of the few Rapture nuts who believe that. They all want it to happen during their lifetimes because no one wants to die. Rapture fans want to go from life to heaven without that messy dying part in between.

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I say that because Christianity is under attack and because no one has seen any major evidence..i.e. God speaking to us from the sky or people coming back from the dead, etc, etc. People will turn from God and become atheists and I think in due time, Christianity will die out and when it's long gone and forgotten, that is when Jesus will return.


That's silly. You're silly.

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IF it's all true that is.


Which it isn't. Did you give OJ Simpson the idea to write that "If I Did It" book? You're giving an awful lot of credence to this hypothesis for someone who claims to not really believe it.

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And as I said, the fact that some atheists want a one world government, that Christianity is being attacked...not to mention all the insanity over in the middle east that has been going on forever, and the quotes I am reading from the bible makes me think I owe it to myself to continue study religion and ask the hard questions.

The bible has predicited things that come true. i.e. The three things Jesus said and what Peter said about people turning away from Christ because God has not made Himself known in the world.


You're asking the hard questions and ignoring the easy answers. I already explained why these prophecies are considered true: not because they're actually divinely inspired but because they are predictions of things that any idiot living in 30 AD could make. Half of them aren't even intended as predictions -- they were intended to inform the people living in the times that these verses were written that the end times were NOW NOW NOW and they'd better shape up. Every mention of the end times in the New Testament, explicitly or implicitly, works from the assumption that it would happen within the lifetimes of people who are now thousands of years gone. They weren't prophecies. They tried to use things that happened all the time as proof of the end times. Then, when people looked around, they would see these things happening (since they happen all the time) and conclude that, welp, this must be it!

A one world government? Gee, why on earth would someone living in the time when the hated Roman Empire had a massive amount of land ever think that there could be a one world government? I mean, it's totally impossible that someone would think that maybe the Roman Empire would get even bigger. Must have been God's divine insight! And the fact that the Romans never did get around to making that one world government just gives the prophecy nuts more to work with. Reasonable people would conclude that since the prophecy was most likely written about the Romans and totally failed to come true, the prophecy is total crap. Not you and your fellow rapture nuts, though. If the Romans didn't do it, it must be someone else! Take your pick, there's two thousand years of failed prophecies to choose from.

Christianity being attacked? Goodness, why would someone writing during or after the Neronian persecutions of 64 or so AD ever possibly think that people might want to persecute Christians? Couldn't be that Christians and Jews in general were being persecuted. It couldn't be that Christianity had its critics since the beginning, just like all the mystical religions which irritated the scholars and the elites so much. Nope, must have been a sign from God telling people that. I can't imagine any other reason why Christians would think that people would hate a religion that said everyone who wasn't part of it would spend eternity roasting in flames.

People leaving because Christianity wasn't delivering on its promises? What would make someone predict that? Possibly they lived in a society where people were seeing that Christ wasn't coming back and were rejecting Christianity because their savior was taking forever to come back. And then, they tried to convince their fellow Christians that this wasn't it a problem. It's really a feature, you guys, not a bug! That's supposed to happen! People are supposed to leave the church because they think we're full of crap! It's a sign, guys, honest! I'm not just saying this to keep you from leaving the flock with the rest of the skeptics and rational thinkers!

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The things I have mentioned disturb me because they are all true.


Why should they disturb you? If I tell you that, in the end times, the sun will rise in the east and set in the west, will you be disturbed if you go outside and follow the sun's path and discover -- *gasp!* -- that the sun indeed rises in the east and sets in the west? You are being disturbed over very stupid things, and I worry that if you continue to think these prophecies are in any way worth being disturbed over, you will become a moron. These prophecies are not things it would take a divine miracle to predict. They are everyday occurances that happened to even the earliest members of Christianity.

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I'm sorry but if there's once chance in a million that what Christians are saying is true


There isn't. Glad I could help!

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Quite frankly, I find the

Quite frankly, I find the idea of a one world government rather concerning because if that government started passing unreasonable laws, we would have nowhere to escape to.  I would be okay with a one world government with strict limited powers of protecting nations from aggressor nations and guaranteeing certain rights to all people in the world if I thought that would actually work.  However, the U.S. federal government is evidence that such a government can be gradually molded into an engine for imposing all manner of restrictive laws which it was never intended to have the authority to impose.


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Zeeboe has always been a

Zeeboe has always been a self-denying self-flagellating christian.  I'm yet again amazed that the moderators allow this emo theist to post in the "No Theists Allowed" part of the forum.

He'll whine about how the world is doing exactly what the bible predicted, and how much sense the bible makes and then add a disclaimer like this: "The Holy Bible makes a lot of sense and I feel God speaking to me.  But I know that God doesn't exist.  I miss talking to God.  I'm going to church today so I can worship Him."

Phaugh.  Go to church and leave us alone you twit.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


JeremiahSmith
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Watcher wrote: Zeeboe has

Watcher wrote:
Zeeboe has always been a self-denying self-flagellating christian. I'm yet again amazed that the moderators allow this emo theist to post in the "No Theists Allowed" part of the forum.

I dunno, if he hadn't posted here I wouldn't have had all that fun tearing apart end-times prophecies. It is a dilemma. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Zeeboe wrote: Like I said

Zeeboe wrote:

Like I said before, just because we may think God is a bully doesn't mean we should not worship Him. Infact, I think that's all the more reason to fear and submit to Him. I would never become an atheist just because I think God is a tyrant. That encourages me to become a Christian actually. If the Christian God is the one true God then I would rather worship Him then be against Him.

If you're considering going Christian because you're afraid of the tyranny, then you've essentially proven one of the reasons that Christianity flourishes. Congratulations.

Perceiving the biblical god as a tyrant isn't the only reason for rejecting him, although it is a great one. There are also the biblical contradictions and errors (note that these are two different types of mistakes). The bible not only contradicts itself, but science and history completely obliterate any possibility of it having literal truth.

 Period.

 

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According to the Christian belief, God gives people free will.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just had free will to begin with?

1) "Aliens from the planet Pussei-8 gave us Dairy Queens."

2) "Dairy Queens exist."

3) "Therefore, aliens from the planet Pussei-8 must be real."

See the error here?

Also, God's "free will" that he gave you is pure bullshit. He gave you the "free will" to do it his way or the highway. But if you don't do it his way, he has created a place of eternal torment where you will be sent to suffer a punishment that is infinitely (literally) improportional to the crime.

Suppose a man hold's a gun to your head and tells you to sing "I'm a little teapot". He informs you that it's your free will whether or not you sing the song, but if you sing the song, he'll save you by rescuing you from the danger of the gun. But if you don't sing the sun, the gun will shoot you in the face. This is pure bullshit, because the only reason there is a gun is because HE produced it.

Similarly, God is giving you the "free will" to do it one way or the other, but he's rescuing you from or damning you to a fate that HE PRESENTED.

That's the stupidest notion of free will I've ever heard.

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People can love each other or kill each other. I don't think we should blame God just because most people would rather kill each other.

I think we should, because a lot of people kill each other for reasons stemming from religious beliefs.

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And if God is real and you believed in Him and followed His laws, then you go to Heaven, which is much better then earth so I've read, so dying is not a bad thing if you are a Christian.

And if he isn't real and you believe in him, then you dedicate your life to a pointless endeavor, when you could have been doing something more constructive.

Did you ever notice that many of things that are so great about heaven are things that we value here on earth? Why would that be... hmm....

Did you ever notice that God, angels, and man are often described in terms of a king's court? Why would heaven be modeled after a man-made (and outdated, nonetheless) system of government?

What's so bad about dying anyway? Have you ever died? Do you know that it's bad, or are you just afraid of it? I'm sure nobody wants to die a horrific or painful death, and nobody wants their family and friends to mourn, but do you really have any clue what death is like? Think about this: When were you born? Now imagine what life was like ten years before that. Maybe that's what death is like. Is that so bad? No complaints here. 

 

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And the killers and all the other people who sinned against God will get their proper punishments when they die.

Wrong. They will get cruel punishments that are vastly improportional to the crimes they committed. For example, let's say you sin. Not exactly a huge sin (although let's not forget that all sin is equal in the eyes of God), but just the slip-up variety. You accidentally let a few curse words slip one day when you're in a bad mood, you accidentally look at an attractive person the wrong way, etc etc. then you die.

For each of these small acts, which took mere seconds and required almost no brain activity whatsoever, you will be punished for eternity. Not 100 years. Not 1,000 years. Not ten million years, but eternity.

Let's suppose that for each sin you commit, no matter how big, you are burned and tortured for 100 years each. If you sinned a mere 5 times before judgment, that's 500 years of torture! That seems pretty damn sufficient, don't you think?

But that's not good enough for old Yahweh.

Okay, let's suppose that for each sin you commit, no matter how big, you are burned and tortured for 10,000 years each. Same number of sins. That's 50,000 years of torture for JUST FIVE SINS!!!

But that's not good enough for old Yahweh.

Nope. Not even 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of unfathomably wicked torture for each individual sin is good enough for Yahweh.

You must suffer FOREVER. Even if you regret your sin after the fact, it matters not. You are officially shit out of luck. YOu are there FOREVER.

Are they really getting "their proper punishment"?

Give me a break. That's just ridiculous and inhumane.

That's more of an insult to the religion than to your statement---just to clarify. But I would appreciate it if you thought about it. 

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There are many things in life that I do not understand, but I don't think we're suppose to have all knowledge.

But just because we don't have knowledge in a certain area doesn't mean you can automatically insert any explanation you want. I could insert the aliens from planet Pussei-8 if I felt like it.

But I'm not going to, because that's lazy, and because it is an insult to anyone who would like to know the real answer.

"God of the gaps" should be a sin.

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That would explain the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge

Did you know that "Adam" and "Eve" first appeared in the Epic of Gilgamesh along with Noah's Ark? They weren't called by those names, of course, but they were all in there. Zoroastrianism thought of it first. Strange how that works.

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and why having knowledge or wanting to have all the answers to life is a bad thing.

Do you see how your even THINKING ABOUT this religion is making you want to be ignorant? I'm not saying that you ARE ignorant (yet), but look at what you just said: having all the answers is a bad thing?

I agree that we will probably never have them, but what is so wrong about aspiring to find them?

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And that is why the bible says one is supposed to have a child like faith in Jesus and not question.

This also leads to ignorance. Trust me: YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY QUESTION. In fact, if you want something that is more worth your time than Christianity, then just start asking questions and then look for the answers.

That includes any and all questions about Christianity (which, if asked and answered honestly, should lead straight to a rejection). 

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I hate to get off topic, but I did so I might as well post this too....this is from Ray Comfort's book, "The Evidence Bible" in regards of the contradictions in the bible.

"The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

I like that he picked a "contradiction" that was basically of no consequence. Who gives a shit what the sign said?

What about the conflicting geneologies in the new testament? What about the old testament geneologies which call for a 6,000 year old earth (it's actually about 4.5billion years old---not exactly a small miscalculation), what about the fact that the bible says that god does not tempt man and then provides a story in which god does tempt (and it uses the exact word) man?

Have fun: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html 

What Ray has done here is some hybrid of cherry-picking and rough-edge-smoothing to make you feel like there are no serious contradictions when there are plenty.

Ray is not honest with himself. Why would he be honest with you?

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The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27)."

Biblical contradictions aren't the only reason to reject the message of the bible. It's just one straw on the camel's back, but you need all the straws to break it. (Or at least more than one of them.)

The above is just a safety-catch. The same way Christians "prophecied" that they would be persecuted when they already knew they would be; the same way they forbid anyone to question god when they knew people would; the same way Christians argue that god is beyond science and reason (because if he wasn't he wouldn't make sense); for the same reason Ray has said the above.

Ask yourself how much sense it makes that God would purposely sprinkle contradictions into his "revealed truth" to snare people. Does he want us to know the truth or not? What the hell is with the mind games? Why do I have to rely on a book anyway? Why doesn't he just jump on down and say hi?

The answers to these questions are obvious. Only a person who is determined to keep their belief will not find them of any consequence.

Ray is being an apologist. He's bad at it. Ever seen the banana argument? Oh my god... *slaps forehead*

 

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It sounds to me like if you are Christian, you have to be humble

You can do that without being a Christian.

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and have that childlike faith in the bible and in God no matter what,

Yes, even when God says that 2+2 = Orange, you are not to question him. I know it doesn't make sense on even the most basic level of logic, but just maintain that child-like faith (ignorance?) and everything will be okay.

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and if you are proud and not humble and are trying to gain all knowledge on all subjects and refuse to soften your heart, you won't hear the voice of God.

I don't think any one person could gain complete world knowledge. The human life span simply isn't long enough, even if a person could dedicate his entire life to reading books. But mankind can collectively know a lot of things (we already do), and there is nothing wrong with that.

Is it not possible to be intelligent AND humble?

Softening your heart to hear the voice of God? You won't like this answer, but I'm going to call that "emotional woo-woo". It doesn't actually mean anything, it just sounds pretty and makes you feel nice. The truth doesn't always make you feel nice, but it's the truth.

Soften your heart to the fact that Christianity is bullshit and you will hear the voice of reason. 

 

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Also, a Christian friend once told me trying to understand the mind of God is like an ant trying to understand our minds.

Try thinking about it this way: If God doesn't make sense to our feeble, lousy, pathetic little minds, then just think how stupid he must sound to himself!

An ant would never understand our minds because ants don't know we exist, and even when they do, they hardly care. Ants never suffer an existential crisis, let alone contemplate a profound meaning to the universe ("universe" is another thing they don't know and could care less about). That is to say, ants don't even TRY to understand us. And if they could and did make the attempt, I'm sure some of us would find that interesting enough to want to share some of our thoughts with them.

Ant: "Thoughts?"

Ant Enthusiast: "Well, ant, lately I've been thinking a lot about nudist colonies."

Ant: "Uh huh..." *scribbles in ant notebook*

 

I will state my usual policy: When asking a Christian for an explanation, don't let them use analogies. I can explain to you why Christianity is bullshit without using them.

You could make any claim make sense if you were adamant enough about finding an appealing false analogy. 

 

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If the Christian God is the real God, it seems like that in life (in regards of how we all think and who is the smartest) it kinda goes like this:

1. Bugs, animals and fish

2. Humans

3. God

Translation: "Do you know how humans are the greatest things on earth? Well God is even greater than that!"

There are brains on earth that can do things many times better than your brain can. Have you ever seen a bee? That bee has a better sense of direction and navigation than you could even dream of having.

The human brain is pretty damn amazing, but it's not better all around.

By the way, since minds are just an emergent property of material brains, do you realize that believing that god has a mind means that you believe he has a material brain? In other words, he's a physical being just like us and is confined to the same laws of physics as the rest of us? I think I spy a slippery slope ahead.

 

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As far as killing in the name of God is concerned,

Ray Comfort talks about that in his book actually.

"Religion has caused more wars than anything else in history."

"It is true that man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had "God with us" engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. America said, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." The law may even allow you to start the Christian Nazi Party, if you so desire. You can become a "reverend" for a few dollars through the tabloid classifieds and then further your political agenda with the world’s blessing, no matter how much it smears the name of Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 16:2,3 that there will be some who, in their error, commit atrocities and murder in the name of God: "The time is coming that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service." However, He informs us that these are not true believers: "And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." (See also 1 John 3:15.)

Of course, no TRUE Christian would do that. This is called the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. It occurs when a claim is made, the claim is refuted, and then the original claim is adjusted after the fact.

1) No American opposes the war.

2) I oppose the war, and I'm American.

1) Well, no TRUE American opposes the war. 

 

 Keep swinging, Ray. You might connect with something some day.

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Jesus told His followers to love their enemies. So if a man puts a knife into someone’s back in the name of Christianity, something obviously isn’t right. If we human beings can detect it, how much more will God? He will deal with it on Judgment Day. "

We've already proved how "just" this judgment will be (i.e. not at all).

Doesn't condemning people to eternal torment kind of contradict the whole "love thy enemy" thing? Why doesn't God love his enemies? Are we his enemies simply because we didn't find his story convincing? Maybe we would have been more inclined to believe it if he wouldn't have "snared us" with his contradictions. But I guess I shouldn't expect to understand such a great mind. HA!

Let's not forget that God, on several occasions in the bible, actually gave people permission to commit acts of violence, and even committed some of his own (killing all the babies was the best one). So it appears that even if you want to claim that some of these people who killed in God's name weren't "real Christians", that at least some of them were!

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Add that to the third thing Jesus has said and has come true so far. From predicting that people will hate Christians,

After the fact, no doubt.

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to predicting that His words will never be forgotton

If his words would have been forgotten, then you would have never known that this prophecy had not been fulfilled.

In case you missed it, that means that anyone can say this and has just as much of a chance as being right as he did. Try it!

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and predicting that people will kill in His name.

They already had. Why wouldn't they do it again?

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He's been right three times now. Debate it all you want, but it's true.

Yeah, and Nostradamus was right about 9/11, remember?

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I'm starting to think I was never a true Christian to begin with.

You weren't. Most of them aren't. 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


Archeopteryx
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Zeeboe wrote: I also

Zeeboe wrote:

I also found the quote from Peter to be disturbing. He's clearly saying people will turn away from Christ because they are tired of waiting for Him to return and that has happened.

That's an easy "prophecy" to make when you have a good hunch that it's never going to happen.

Or if you're already sick of waiting yourself and reason that people in the future will be even more tired of waiting.

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I think if Jesus did come back today, people would think He came back too soon. A Christian would argue that God is trying to save as many people as He can, and if Jesus comes back, that means the human race gets one final chance and those that do accept Christ during that final chance will have to die and I don't think God wants that to happen just yet. I think He wants people to have more time.

Blah blah blah... yadda yadda... no offense, but nothing really going on here.
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If the rapture is real, then I highly doubt it will happen in this life time..

He will come "as a thief in the night" as they say. Of course you don't know when it will happen. You're not supposed to. Just another way of maintaining the mysterious woo-woo of it all. But it COULD happen in this lifetime. You really have no way of knowing. Even to suggest as much is just spitting in the wind.

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but the seeds are being planet. I say that because Christianity is under attack and because no one has seen any major evidence..i.e. God speaking to us from the sky or people coming back from the dead, etc, etc. People will turn from God and become atheists and I think in due time, Christianity will die out and when it's long gone and forgotten, that is when Jesus will return.

You think... you think... you speculate.. this could happen... that could happen...

WELL... I think that Superman is currently visiting the planet Krypton to learn about his mysterious past, but once he has satisfied his life-long curiosity, he will return to Earth and save us all. Of course, no one believes this, and he left all kinds of evidence to throw us off his trail, even though he wants us to believe it, but just when everyone agrees that this theory is ridiculous, that's when he'll come back, so you better not even think about being skeptical!

I mean, you can if you really want... but it would just be a shame if something bad happened... that's all I'm saying.

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IF it's all true that is.

Yeah, it's not.

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And as I said, the fact that some atheists want a one world government, that Christianity is being attacked...not to mention all the insanity over in the middle east that has been going on forever, and the quotes I am reading from the bible makes me think I owe it to myself to continue study religion and ask the hard questions.

Good. Try looking at some other stuff other than the vage prophecies.

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The bible has predicited things that come true. i.e. The three things Jesus said and what Peter said about people turning away from Christ because God has not made Himself known in the world.

The things I have mentioned disturb me because they are all true.

I know some of you don't like that I am doing this, and I'm sorry but if there's once chance in a million that what Christians are saying is true, we all owe it to ourselves to study religion and ask both Christians and non-Christians all the hard questions.

 

Do any of the prophecies ever make any direct predictions? Seriously?

Do any of them ever say, for instance, "on the eleventh day of the ninth month, two planes piloted by hijackers will fly into two skyscrapers, sequeing nicely into a war on terrorism" ?

They're all just vague mumbo-jumbo that people WANT to have meaning, so they take the prophecies and find any way to fit them to the world that they can. It's the same "truth" you get from astrology. 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


Brian37
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Zeeboe wrote: Like I said

Zeeboe wrote:

Like I said before, just because we may think God is a bully doesn't mean we should not worship Him. Infact, I think that's all the more reason to fear and submit to Him. I would never become an atheist just because I think God is a tyrant. That encourages me to become a Christian actually. If the Christian God is the one true God then I would rather worship Him then be against Him.

According to the Christian belief, God gives people free will. People can love each other or kill each other. I don't think we should blame God just because most people would rather kill each other. And if God is real and you believed in Him and followed His laws, then you go to Heaven, which is much better then earth so I've read, so dying is not a bad thing if you are a Christian. And the killers and all the other people who sinned against God will get their proper punishments when they die.

There are many things in life that I do not understand, but I don't think we're suppose to have all knowledge. That would explain the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge and why having knowledge or wanting to have all the answers to life is a bad thing. And that is why the bible says one is supposed to have a child like faith in Jesus and not question.

I hate to get off topic, but I did so I might as well post this too....this is from Ray Comfort's book, "The Evidence Bible" in regards of the contradictions in the bible.

"The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27)."

It sounds to me like if you are Christian, you have to be humble and have that childlike faith in the bible and in God no matter what, and if you are proud and not humble and are trying to gain all knowledge on all subjects and refuse to soften your heart, you won't hear the voice of God.

Also, a Christian friend once told me trying to understand the mind of God is like an ant trying to understand our minds.

If the Christian God is the real God, it seems like that in life (in regards of how we all think and who is the smartest) it kinda goes like this:

1. Bugs, animals and fish

2. Humans

3. God

As far as killing in the name of God is concerned,

Ray Comfort talks about that in his book actually.

"Religion has caused more wars than anything else in history."

"It is true that man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had "God with us" engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. America said, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." The law may even allow you to start the Christian Nazi Party, if you so desire. You can become a "reverend" for a few dollars through the tabloid classifieds and then further your political agenda with the world’s blessing, no matter how much it smears the name of Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 16:2,3 that there will be some who, in their error, commit atrocities and murder in the name of God: "The time is coming that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service." However, He informs us that these are not true believers: "And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." (See also 1 John 3:15.)

Jesus told His followers to love their enemies. So if a man puts a knife into someone’s back in the name of Christianity, something obviously isn’t right. If we human beings can detect it, how much more will God? He will deal with it on Judgment Day.
"

Add that to the third thing Jesus has said and has come true so far. From predicting that people will hate Christians, to predicting that His words will never be forgotton and predicting that people will kill in His name. He's been right three times now. Debate it all you want, but it's true.

I'm starting to think I was never a true Christian to begin with.

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Like I said before, just because we may think God is a bully doesn't mean we should not worship

What kind of a coward do you have to be to bow to a bully? Do you think it is moral or rational for a leader to be a bully? You want to worship a bully? That makes you an immoral sick coward. Fortunatly for you such a fictional being doesnt exist. Would you become a Nazi just because Hitler had the power to murder you or allow you to be murderd? 

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I'm starting to think I was never a true Christian to begin with.

I suspect you were never an atheist in the first place. I think you are an atheist, not based on the origin of the word, but you are an atheist based on the bastardized version Christians have turned the word into.

There is only one reason to hold a position on any isssue. EVIDENCE. Certainly God being a bully would not be a reason not to believe in his existance. But it would be morally repugnant to kiss his ass IF ONE WERE TO ASSUME FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE that such a claimed being existed.

Proveing the existance of Allah would still be a differant issue than weither or not such a being would be deserving of respect.

You are a charloton who came here claiming to be an atheist. I suspect you may merely think you are without knowing what it means and merely buy what theists tell you what it means.

If this is the best argument you can come up with you dont deserve to be an atheist. Atheists worth their intelectual weight wouldnt spew garbage like this.

We are not fooled by your ploy and we wouldnt want you using the word "atheist", you dont diserve it. That title is for people who think.  You are a con artist trying to fool people, nothing more.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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