The problem with the Rational Response Squad Radio...

Unsavedsinner
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The problem with the Rational Response Squad Radio...

Hi, I've been watching your shows for about a year now, and from what I've noticed from debating theists, they think we are absolutely immoral. And that we can never be moral. Basically the word moral is another word for highly religious. Yet in reality, the most moral people in the world seem to be non religious. However, the RRS doesn't really that leave that impression on theist listeners and viewers...
Now, of course I am not saying that the people on the show are immoral, but they make themselves look immoral, hence making atheism as a whole look immoral. The reason I am even concerned is because, we get alot of people coming on here. This website might have the highest traffic when compared to other atheist sites. Hence more theists visit. We have been talked about by huge media sources, so lots of people come on. Including big name people. Like Ray Comfort and Richard Dawkins.
The one problem I noticed is the music. The rap is immature. It says things like "motherfucking Christians" and basicaly sounds as stupid, bigot like, and closed minded as Pat Robertson. How bout we play some educational scientific sound peices prooving the non existance of a god or atleast, no rap crap. Do we really want to look like the Pat Robertsons of the other side? Remember, people who know NOTHING about atheism visit, and then they get this, hence believing all atheists listen to music like what is playing here and agree with the often rediculous lyrics.
The 2nd problem is swearing. On the shows you guys use very strong words. I'm not a nerd like I sound, I say fuck all the time but don't do it on the air, theists who know nothing about atheism are listening too. Don't make us look like people that just fucking swear our asses off. Like I did there...
Also, I always see someone smoking while the freaking webcam is on...wtf is the point of that. Again, theists come on here, so now we got them thinking we are closed minded immature, bad rap music listening, swearing our asses off smokers. And I *know* people are thinking this because I've heard them talk about us on Facebook and bring this up.
RATIONAL RESPONCE SQUAD!! I LOVE YOU GUYS BUT THE SWEARING, SMOKING, TERRIBLE IMMATURE RAP SONGS, AND OTHER IMMORAL ETC ARE SEEN BY THEISTS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ATHEISM OR ATHEISTS BESIDES WHAT THEY SEE, HEAR, AND READ ON THE SITE! SO THE SWEARING, SMOKING, AND TERRIBLE IMMATURE RAP HAS TO GO!
Also remember, I've heard theists talk about this on Facebook message boards, and I've always had to defend atheism explaing how not all atheists smoke, swear like crazy, listen to closed minded bad rap, and act immoral. I also tell them to watch some of the intelligent shows we have on here. And there are alot. I am not anti RRS at all, I just have a few problems with it, and I know other members feel the same way. Including a few mods who I will not name unless they are ok with me doing that. This is just what I think we need to fix.
Thanks for allowing me to share my opinion! -Unsavedsinner

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Unsavedsinner, first off I

Unsavedsinner, first off I want to say thanks for sharing your opinion.  You very well are entitled and welcome to it.

 Now I get to be the first priviledged enough to say: RRS ACTUALLY HAS THEIR OWN RADIO SHOW.  They are actually DOING something.  Talk about "typical" behavior on the part of atheists, your comments reflect the notion that "Talk is cheap."  Again, Brian Sapient is actually DOING something.  Rook is actually DOING something.  Kelly is actually DOING something.  The only reason you are here, even able to complain about RRS' style is because they have their own website with a loyal following again, because they are DOING something.

 They never signed on as being the "official" representatives of atheists.  They may not be the best or most ideal representatives of what atheists are, but they are actually REPRESENTING.

That being said, you are allowed your criticisms.  Just know that all of us have been waiting a long time for someone like Brian, Rook, and Kelly to step up.  Remember to let them know how much that matters.

 Maybe you can use the passion and motivation you displayed here to start your own adventure into this sort of thing?  I'd highly encourage it!

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I'm glad you braught it up.

I'm glad you brought it up. I was in Newsweek, on CNN, in Mercury News, in the Daily Harold, and several radio stations for my question submitted to the CNN/YouTube debate asking "How will you appeal to non religious voters?". It was also voted most popular too. Trust me, I certianly have a huge voice, and am "doing something", only my voice goes directly to our next President. My signature explains my next objective. If that is not "doing something" I do not know what is. I do agree with you that too many atheists just don't do anything and act like they're beleifs don't exist. However I am certianly not one of those atheists.
Anyway, as I stated before, I am not anti RRS as you seem to assume. I love that RRS actually does something, I truely am. But, do you really want to see the smoking, swearning, and bad rap music playing all the time?
I know we are not SUPPOSED to be the official atheist site but, people are stupid. People assume all minorities are like someone from that minority they see. That can be good or bad. And I have the proof people do this because they talk about RRS on Facebook alot and talk about how "immature" and "immoral" people act on the show, hence they becomea stereotype to all of us. As I mentioned above. Eye-wink 
RRS can "do something" as they do very well, without the stuff theists will sterotype us with. Eye-wink

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 So, in summary:  "Stop

 So, in summary: 

"Stop being yourselves, you're making us look bad!"

We'll look bad no matter what we do by the simple virtue of being atheists. Are smoking and swearing really such major sins that they're the only thing keeping Christians from liking us? Anyone who gets that worked up over swearing probably's not doing much thinking in the first place.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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That was you in the YouTube

That was you in the YouTube video?  Awesome, I had no idea!

 But I don't feel that's as impressive as what's being done here.  You made a video, and it got voted on and watched. 

Then again, you are DOING something, which is more then I can say for most people here.

Why do I think what is being done here is more impressive?  Well, developing an infrastructure through which leaders are able to COHESE and CHANNEL the attention and momentum generated, much by publicity like what you are doing, into something less transient.  RRS is a presence, and argueably the most successful atheist community on the internet.  They have a radio show, and they educate others through debate and discussion.

 You are not anti-RRS, or you would not be here.

Quote:
But, do you really want to see the smoking, swearning, and bad rap music playing all the time?

No, but I would rather have them do what they do rather then not at all.  It's a matter of being yourself.  You are asking the RRS Core Members to change themselves, which is excercise in futility.  Believe me, I've tried! Smiling

Sure, RRS can provide "the theists" with ammo, but they really bring the big guns to bear for us.  They are a major service, and I merely wanted to counter-address your largely critical post with one of support.  Nothing personal.  I actually really like what you are doing, even the spirit in which you are asking this question.  I just want to be a harbringer of reality to you and make sure you take what you say with a grain of salt, so to speak. 

Understand people.  Let them be what they are, and only hope for change.  Just as with theists, or anyone who lives their lives strongly in what they believe, you rarely ever change anyone's mind by direct confrontation.

I'd just suggest to you if you want to make an impact here, continue to be a presence and bring up your points.  People will question their own beliefs naturally, you need not always force them to.

 

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


Voided
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I don't like fucking

I don't like fucking censorship and hiding who I am. I don't think Kelly, Brian, or Rook would like those things either.

Smoking: Bad in my opinion, but a personal choice.

Rap: You're complaining about a kind of music... what would you prefer heavy metal?

Acting Immoral: You kind of slipped that one in there without really giving an example.

 

You are asking people to change and be on their best behavior because you are worried that not doing so is going to make atheists look bad. I think watering down ourselves and limiting our speech or actions is going to do more harm then good.

Will it look nicer to an outsider? Maybe, but did the rrs get here playing nice? Should every atheist have to mute themselves to keep up an image? What is this image you are trying to keep up?

By trying limit things like swearing or rap music it is saying something is wrong with those things and trying to create a false image of a person.


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Okay first off Void, no one

Okay first off Void, no one here likes censorship, and no one here is calling for that. So whenever someone makes a thread covering this topic, we don’t need people saying “fuck censorship, I can say and do whatever the fuck I like.” Because that does absolutely nothing for the conversation taking place.

 

Second, I would just like to know – what as the RRS actually done? Honestly what has the RRS accomplished for atheism? I can think of three things. 1) Given a place for fellow atheists to gather and talk, and take on the “mental disorder” of theism together. 2) Got on the news 3) debated two morons

 

So I would just like to know, what has been accomplished?


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22jesus22 wrote:So I

22jesus22 wrote:

So I would just like to know, what has been accomplished?

More than what you have accomplished for atheism.

Cool your jets, everyone.  If I keep seeing these crybaby posts, I'll have to call the Waambulance and lock this thread.  Keep it respectful.

Obviously people here have concerns and criticisms.  That is perfectly fine.  We must keep this as a dialogue though.  I don't want this to turn into people attacking each other's credibility and slinging ad hominems.

We together here are allies, make no mistake about it.  Start acting like it

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


22jesus22
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I’m sorry but was my

I’m sorry but was my question answered?

 

Allies as in?

 

Who isn’t keeping it respectful?


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Unsavedsinner wrote: I

Unsavedsinner wrote:
I always see someone smoking while the freaking webcam is on...wtf is the point of that. Again, theists come on here, so now we got them thinking we are closed minded immature, bad rap music listening, swearing our asses off smokers. And I *know* people are thinking this because I've heard them talk about us on Facebook and bring this up.

 

That's all fine and dandy, but have you heard any of them make a coherent and logical argument for God?

 <crickets>

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22jesus22 wrote: Who

22jesus22 wrote:

Who isn’t keeping it respectful?

Well, no one yet.  But I can smell it.  I'm seeing a progressive trend here and I wanted to lay out a warning.

I'd say I'm your ally and you are mine.  We have no pact or contact, but I think it is de-facto

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


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Unsavedsinner wrote: I'm

Unsavedsinner wrote:
I'm glad you brought it up. I was in Newsweek, on CNN, in Mercury News, in the Daily Harold, and several radio stations for my question submitted to the CNN/YouTube debate asking "How will you appeal to non religious voters?". It was also voted most popular too. Trust me, I certianly have a huge voice, and am "doing something", only my voice goes directly to our next President. My signature explains my next objective. If that is not "doing something" I do not know what is. I do agree with you that too many atheists just don't do anything and act like they're beleifs don't exist. However I am certianly not one of those atheists.

Is "doing something" submitting a question on youtube, or are you working in some larger capacity that I'm unaware of? 

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22jesus22 wrote: Okay first

22jesus22 wrote:
Okay first off Void, no one here likes censorship, and no one here is calling for that. So whenever someone makes a thread covering this topic, we don’t need people saying “fuck censorship, I can say and do whatever the fuck I like.” Because that does absolutely nothing for the conversation taking place.

No, that is what he is asking for. No smoking, no swearing, no rap. Its at a personal level and done by the person, but a person censoring them self is still being censored. The only reason I cursed there was because that just seems like the natural thing to do when talking.


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If I may interject here, I

If I may interject here, I have to agree with one thing the OP said - the rap songs are aweful.  Don't get me wrong, I love rap - not the kind you'll find on the radio -, and I understand you choose the artists you do because of their pro-atheist message, but in all honesty, it is worse than Christian rap.  Ignore me if you wish, but trust me when I say it is bad.

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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As someone else said we are

As someone else said we are all a team and I agree, but I have just seen and read what theists say about the RRS and it is not good. I'm not saying we should censor bad words, or get rid of them all together, I am not saying that. I am saying tone it down a bit. The Rap music on here is just really sterotypical. Don't we want atheists to look like an intelligent, right minority? I know the RRS is not the official atheist website, but people treat it as it is. You guys always have great arguments and watching Brian and Kelly debate people like Matt Slick is a blast. I personaly, only have a problem with smoking on set, (set's kind of a "bad" image, you can smoke, I only suggest to not do it infront of the webcam) not really the swearing, everyone swears...but also the rap. It's just pretty extreme. 
Once again, I am not anti RRS, and far from being that, I'm just reporting to you what theists think of atheism as a whole by some of the "Bad image" things people do on the radio or while the webcam is on. That's all.
Thanks again! 

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I feel I must step in

I feel I must step in here.  Yes, Brian, you are making Atheism look bad.  Everything with Atheism was peaches and roses with open Atheists being elected to Congress and with plans on putting Richard Dawkins on Mt. Rushmore until you came along.  I was going to be nominated for a Nobel Prize for Atheism until one of the people on the nominating committee turned on a Youtube video and now they just dropped the category.

 Musical preferences aside I don't think the RRS is responsible for the negative impression the religious have had towards Atheists over the centuries. Their actions aren't going to negatively impact Atheists anymore than Ted Haggard's blowing a male escort is going to negatively impact the whole of Christianity.  Many Atheists can testify to the fact that they've had people who have been close friends until it's been revealed that they are Atheist then those supposed friends will no longer associate with them.  Dan Barker has plenty of examples of this.  Dan is one of the nicest Atheists on the planet but people still hate him because of what pastors preach about Atheists, not because what Atheists actually do.


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Unsaved... I do think you

Unsaved...

I do think you have a valid point, HOWEVER there is something you seem to be missing.

This is just my opinion, but to me, unlike theists, the RRS is not trying to position themselves as role models and dictate what is and isn't moral behavior. This is analagous to suggesting that if one doesn't believe in god, the onus is on them to come up with some equally meaningful explanation for life and death. That's not our burden, nor our responsibility. We can be critical of those who promote irrational moral guidelines without necessarily being required to promote our own. If anything, we suggest that what constitutes "good behavior" is subjective and we wouldn't be so cavalier (unlike theists) to claim that: a) we're perfect, or b) the way we live our lives is the way anybody else should.

With that being said, your point is a common one among those who critique things of this nature. There's always a better way to reach people. I think everyone is evolving their technique. However, in the big picture, cusswords and smoking and rap music are irrelevent. RRS teaches people to think for themselves and not blindly go along with groupthink, so any faux pas the principals may have are just their humanity showing through. It's up to each of us to make our own choices.  If seeing Kelly puff on a cigarette on cam is going to make you smoke, that's the fault of your own lack of self control and has little to do with her.

 


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I love the RRS radio show;

I love the RRS radio show; however I feel the same way as Unsavedsinner. I've heard so many excellent discussions on the show, and I'd love to invite theists to hear it. The problem is that I know the theists will be too offended by the show to actually hear what's being said.

Especially with the rap lyrics in the intro. "Jesus came to Earth just to make you feel like shit; well you can't die for me (Jesus)". That's extremely harsh to a theist. I even find it offensive sometimes just because of how harsh it is.


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Mental Eclipse

Mental Eclipse wrote:

 The problem is that I know the theists will be too offended by the show to actually hear what's being said.

 

I find their entire belief system offensive and an insult to human dignity, yet they're still invited to come here.   

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D-cubed wrote:I feel I

D-cubed wrote:

I feel I must step in here.  Yes, Brian, you are making Atheism look bad.  Everything with Atheism was peaches and roses with open Atheists being elected to Congress and with plans on putting Richard Dawkins on Mt. Rushmore until you came along.  I was going to be nominated for a Nobel Prize for Atheism until one of the people on the nominating committee turned on a Youtube video and now they just dropped the category.

Haha, you had me goin there for a sec.  I was getting ready to HAVE TO LAY DOWN SOME SHIT, and then got a chance to laugh at myself.

Thanks for lightening the mood in this thread, D-cubed

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To some people who have

To some people who have posted here: I'm not sure why me simply suggest we tone down the offensive rap, smoking, and swearing makes me look like I am anti free speech and hate the RRS and think they are just no good...
To Brian: I know theists' beliefs may be offensive, but why do we need atheism to look offensive too? Is it a race to see who can be the most offensive now? :P 
Can someone please tell me why we need smoking on camera, and offensive immature rap music? I am not trying to be anti speech or expression, but lots of people look at the RRS when they even hear the word "Atheist". And that is good for alot of reasons, the RRS is excellent at getting our message out to young people. Brian, you really are excellent. The one problem I have, is the things I've been talking about. And to theists, the "negative" things happening on the show (smoking, horrible offensive rap, constant swearing) is apperantly overshadowed. It is a stronger image than the intelligent stuff and points expressed on the show unforuneatly. And I know because I've heard so many people talk about the RRS and these theists fail to see the good of the RRS, because the bad is stronger in their minds. I am just reporting whats going on, no need to think I hate you guys and want to take away your freedom of expression. I'm not forcing you to do anything, I am just telling you, reporting to you what the effect of smoking, putting offensive immature rap on, and overuse of swear words is doing. Thank you!

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Unsavedsinner wrote:

Unsavedsinner wrote:

To Brian: I know theists' beliefs may be offensive, but why do we need atheism to look offensive too?
  We don't. However thinking that smoking, rap, and cursing is offensive is the same backwards mindset that we are trying to help correct. Avoiding someones arguments against God with petty criticisms like "they smoke, and they're music is offensive" is just as irrational as theism. You should spot this and want to correct both backwards beliefs. I don't think we should rid the world of theism and leave some irrational thought in place, it is irrational thought itself that is the origin of religious thinking.  I attack irrational thought, not just Christianity or any particular brand of theism for that matter. You should question instead, why it is that the person found someones opinion offensive. Their criticisms are nothing but creative dodges of their own delusions designed to put you on the defensive, and I believe you took the bait. I would've likely simply ignored their asanine criticism, and asked if they had proof of a god. 
Quote:
Can someone please tell me why we need smoking on camera, and offensive immature rap music?
  We don't "need" either, however we do as we please here. If you appreciate us for what we do, please feel free to hang out. We're not out to win a popularity contest amongst the masses, we'll do as we please. If you don't accept who we are, or don't think we are the type of people you can get behind, I encourage you by all means to try and connect with the group that best suits you. We realized there was no one group that embraced our vision, and so we created it ourselves, don't leave ideas like that out of your arsenal. If you have a vision for how to best impact the world please get something started, I wish you nothing but the best on it if you do. If you have a criticism that you would like to be treated as constructive criticism, I suggest you send it to us privately. I promise we read all of it, we process all of it, and some suggestions do in fact get utilized from time to time. Please don't take offense if we don't embrace your suggestions, we simply want to remain true to ourselves at all times, even if that means we won't be known as the "most respected atheist org." (like I said, we're not in a popularity contest)  I do in fact believe you meant your criticism in at the minimum a semi-constructive manner. However private messages tend to be more well received as constructive, since there was no attempt to publicly attack our character. We do at least read and note criticisms made in private, even if we don't adopt those suggestions.  Ok so.... Smoking...  Smoking is not healthy, obviuously. However if one recognizes the risks, understands, and chooses to smoke because they like it for whatever reason, I see no problem with that. Kelly is the first one to speak up and say that she doesn't feel that a non-smoker should ever have to be subjected to a smokers smoke. Precautions are made here so that non-smokers get clean air. While this may not be perfect or ideal in your world, it's a choice that is made in this house. Attempts have been made to quit smoking, and I'm sure a day will come when there is no more smoking on cam... ever. Nevertheless, this isn't an argument for anything really. It's absurd to think this argument has anything to do with anything. God believers smoke and drink as well, that should be your response. If someone is too stupid to get it, then you should help them at the root of their critical thinking issue, not turn around and pander to their silly notions that smoking some how devalues someones arguments or lowers their moral character. In other words... get back to helping them think clearly instead of helping us unthink clearly.  Rap...  I think the criticisms of rap from you and at least one other person are poor. Different strokes for different folks. Some people will be affected by some of that music, be it atheist or theist. We have more than one mission. Don't buy in to the notion that we only attack Christianity. To some extent we are also a rallying point for many other atheists who like to speak out. I personally can name 30 people who are atheist who are positively impacted by some of the music that has come out of our camp. Additionally in our 24 hour radio stream we have at least 15 musical artists featured who are atheist that don't perform rap. In fact at least half of the music is non-rap. We are a diverse group. While you don't appreciate the rap, there are others that do. While someone who may like rap might not appreciate Solarfuse (atheist rock band, cleaner lyrics too), they should stomach it... in the interest of diversity.  Is there an interest for music that says "Jesus never existed?" I promise you the answer is yes. Even if it's someone who doesn't like rap. I've heard no less than 50 comments from people in reference to Proclaim and Greydon Square to the effect of "I didn't like rap before but now I like it" "or I don't like rap, but I like them." If you need evidence of this claim simply browse the comments on GreydonSquare videos on youtube with rap in them.  Cursing...  Fuck, shit, cum, dick face, asshole, mother fucker, douchebag, christian, atheist, agnostic. They're all just words. None of them are bad, none of them are good, they're just words. There is no such thing as a bad word. Words are of importance in context. I could say "I shut the door" or "I walked up the stairs." Was that offensive? What if I said, "shut up?" Words can be used with positive and negative connotation. I think telling you to "shut up" is more offensive than saying "shit" if I stub my toe.  The notion that some words are bad and others are good. Or that cursing devalues a persons point, or that there should even be consired such a thing as a curse word are all irrational notions that we also seek to help correct. Primitive thinking from our past that should be gone in the future.  Dare I say that irrational claims like this should be met with a flurry of "curses" just to mock such silly claims. I'm just fucking with ya, I wouldn't do that. 
Quote:
And to theists, the "negative" things happening on the show (smoking, horrible offensive rap, constant swearing) is apperantly overshadowed.
  Because after they're done preaching to you, what do they have left to talk about? Tell them to submit a logical proof for their god... god damnit! 
Quote:
It is a stronger image than the intelligent stuff and points expressed on the show unforuneatly.
  Untrue. You've seriously taken their bait. What they're doing with you is a defense mechanism from their inability to defend their religious beliefs. We get dozens and dozens of letter expressing that our content is what led them away from religion. I argue that if we hadn't employed our methods exactly as implemented we would not be getting as many letters of this nature. I know how the other groups fare in this category, I've been around the block in the online atheism game. We are at the top of the chart when looking at groups that are effective at steering people away from religion. I used to be part of the "non smokers, non cursers, non drinkers, non rap" atheist group, I know the differences. Been there done that. If I can find the time, I think I'll make a video showing many instances of theists ducking from the arguments at hand and resort to petty and childish attacks (like music, smoking, and cursing). I've seen it many times before. Theists will do and say anything to try and convince you to give up the fight, or something of this nature. n Ray Comfort wrote me a few weeks ago to tell me that in the Middle East our Blasphemy Challenge will translate from "I deny the Holy Spirit" to "I deny Allah" and that Muslims were going to want to come kill me. He then went on to express how I should rethink everything and abandon these projects that would endanger me.  The point is, theists of all flavors have all sorts of arguments that you should not speak out against god in the manner in which you are doing so. Their reason is to dissuade you from speaking out at all, obviously. However, these arguments are never accompanied by logically sound and coherent argument for the existence of God. Equalling one big fat zero in the "have any right to talk" category. 
Quote:
And I know because I've heard so many people talk about the RRS and these theists fail to see the good of the RRS, because the bad is stronger in their minds.
  And there are/were tons of people willing to admit that when you get down to it, and you get to know us, we are in fact good people deep down inside. There have been many that have sent emails of the sorts. What you have is someone who is choosing to reinforce their own self delusions by claiming they don't see any good.  Basically... they're lying to you, but more importantly they don't know it, because they are also lying to themselves. You shouldn't fall for it.  Todangst, feel free to weigh in on the psychology here. 
Quote:
I am just reporting whats going on, no need to think I hate you guys and want to take away your freedom of expression. I'm not forcing you to do anything, I am just telling you, reporting to you what the effect of smoking, putting offensive immature rap on, and overuse of swear words is doing. Thank you!

Thanks. We already knew the effects and all about the poor thinking skills of those who illustrate the afforementioned "effects." Their "effects" are precisely the reason that we exist.

Your arguments could've been sent in private, and they would have been well received, this way you wouldn't have given the wrong impression. No biggie. I'm not mad at all, just a skeptical persons heads up. I really do hope you consider what I said, and you try to recognize the defense mechanisms that delusional people contrive to reinforce their delusions.

It's rare I haven the time to go on for this long about something like this. I was going to leave it at the very few briew comments from previous. Generally the community here hits the nail on the head, Tomcat hit the mark several times, obviously others did as well. I just didn't feel as if everything I'd want to say was out there, so I put it out there. I likely wont have the time to defend my position if you choose to attack it, and I hope that if in fact I don't have the time to retort, that one of the other regulars steps in for me. I personally take no offense to your post, I hope you don't take any from mine.

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Theists have shown time and

Theists have shown time and again, they can't keep their beliefs to a passive practice. If the affairs of the world were a card game, the fundamentalists are not just playing, they want to take away my cards. I'm glad there is someone willing to flip the table and call for a new game.

The paper read yesterday, the earth exploded, nobody noticed the passing of this hapless planet.


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Brain, I read the whole

Brain, I read the whole post. First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to write all of that. Second of all, I do understand your position alot more now. And you are certainly right too. The majority of people just want you to stop. Stop spreading the word. I do understand your position and accept it. Also, sorry for not emailing you, I tried doing that but it wouldn't allow me to for some reason. Sticking out tongue
Anyway, thanks so much Brian! You may delete this thread if you want to as I understand your position. However, I'll leave it on one note, no smoking on set and in private instead = better image. However I agree with you on everything else. And I would also play educational sound peices along with the rap.
Thanks again Brain! Smiling 

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I understand what sinner is

I understand what sinner is saying,but RRS shouldn't hide who they are or anything. Why should they compromise themselves or what they do? If being an Atheist means living without on how to carry on your live,then why should they censor themselves? I know you don't like the music,but those lyrics are meant to attack at the core of a Theist's beliefs and challenge them to think about what they believe in. We(RRS) are who we are and will not change.

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You are afraid and should be thus.  We look to eradicate your god from everything but history books.  We bring rationality and clear thought to those who choose lives of ignorance.  We are the blazing, incandescent brand that will leave an "A" so livid, so scarlet on your mind that you will not go an hour without reflecting on reality.


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I'm not telling them to act

I'm not telling them to act and pretend to be the Princess Diana of atheism, I am just pointing out that (mostly smoking on the set) does not need to be added in to send a very good intelligent rational message. Brian made some very good points in responce to my post too. I agree with him now on most of it, except for the smoking on sceen, just turn the webcam off when someone smokes. Why not?

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I'm wondering why the

I'm wondering why the smoking sticking point? Are you trying to quit?Wink


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Lol, I know it sure seems

Lol, I know it sure seems that way, but no. I just think it puts atheists in a bad light. I mean Kelly is alot more intelligent then theists on other message boards think. I always need to link them to her points in the debates. Because they always say "Oh all she does is have a whiney voice and smoke on set" which is competely false. When I first watched I sort of thought the same way as them, but after watching her bring out points and stump people like Ray Comfort, I now know she is actually a very intelligent person, as most atheists are.
I just suggest to smoke off camera. Thats just a suggestion, no need to treat it like a lawsuit guys.

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Unsavedsinner wrote:

Unsavedsinner wrote:
Lol, I know it sure seems that way, but no. I just think it puts atheists in a bad light. I mean Kelly is alot more intelligent then theists on other message boards think. I always need to link them to her points in the debates. Because they always say "Oh all she does is have a whiney voice and smoke on set" which is competely false. When I first watched I sort of thought the same way as them, but after watching her bring out points and stump people like Ray Comfort, I now know she is actually a very intelligent person, as most atheists are.

Interesting how you passed that critical thinking test, and they didn't. Interestingly enough, some times we purposefully put out something that will in turn illicit irrational responses from others. Kellys seductive dress in the debate was this sort of purposefully calculated issue. We knew ahead of time that those who would write in and whine about what she was wearing were of the irrational thinkers. We do the same thing with our logo... "Believe in God? We can fix that." Inevitably we receive letters from people asking us why we say there is no god in our logo.  We tend not to use that phrase, we believe there aren't rational reasons to hold a belief in a god, we do however accept the possibility that an entity we would call god could exist. The motto in our logo is a research and critical thinking test in itself. We're a little twisted, bro. Call it the opposite of a popularity contest. Eye-wink I won't go into details on any of the other little thinking tests we've put out there. Eye-wink

 

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I just suggest to smoke off camera.
I'm actually a fan of this idea, but for a different reason. I'm tired of hearing 20 people whine about the health risks. I'll do my best to have it cut down on camera, no promises though.

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Really? That's what the

Really? That's what the dress thing was about? lol Sticking out tongue
That's actually pretty clever, when I first heard of the RRS, I always thought the FBI theme was really cool and clever too.
As for smoking, yeah I'm sure alot of people complain about the health risks. However you can sure do good with this and turn it into a very happy ending and possibly even make the atheist image look better, if you guys got her to quit smoking for good, and she made a "video diary" on it. Or something like that. Or perhaps making a video announcement that she is trying to quit. Something along those lines. Just an idea. It might just be me personally, or a Chicago thing, but if I ever have a large sum of people watching me alot, and listening to what I have to say, I care about what and how people think of me.
Also, if she decides not to do that idea, just have her turn the webcam away or off when shes smoking infront of it. Simple as that...I assume. Sticking out tongue
Thanks again Brain for understanding!

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Unsavedsinner wrote:  It

Unsavedsinner wrote:

 It might just be me personally, or a Chicago thing, but if I ever have a large sum of people watching me alot, and listening to what I have to say, I care about what and how people think of me.
 This is definitely you personally.  And while I see your point about how having to deal with pot shots taken at unrelated "easy targets" (i.e. smoking, dress, music) is distracting from the message, keep in mind that nothing is more convincing than authenticity.  No matter how you want to dress up your presentation, you're never going to make everybody happy.  But, if you remain true to what you are, and your message is honest, you gain instant credibility; at least amongst those who are truly interested in the issues at hand. And, when your position is based on a solid foundation of "this is who we are, and this is what we believe," a natural consistency will emerge, and that will leave the nitpickers and fence-sitters eventually no choice but to listen to the actual arguments.  

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


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Unsavedsinner, how do you

Unsavedsinner, how do you feel about Normal Bob Smith?


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He's the worst. He makes

He's the worst. He makes atheists look like devil worshippers. And of course all the porn sites advertise there.

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Unsavedsinner wrote:

Unsavedsinner wrote:
He's the worst. He makes atheists look like devil worshippers.

Anyone too stupid to read the site to see where he says he doesn't believe in the devil either (like, regularly in his hate mail section) is really not worth listening to in the first place.

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And of course all the porn sites advertise there.

Oh no, boobies! We are undone!

Normal Bob is awesome.

Edit: Waitaminute, what porn sites? I don't think Normal Bob runs ads at all, he doesn't need to. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Unsavedsinner wrote: He's

Unsavedsinner wrote:
He's the worst. He makes atheists look like devil worshippers. And of course all the porn sites advertise there.

 

Normal Bob is one of the most patient, calm, respectful, civil, fair, sensitive, cool and collected guys I know.  Normal Bob is the man, I'm glad to consider him a friend.

 

Just thought I should balance that statement out a little with what you get when you get down to know the person, rather than embrace the irrational act of judging someone on their surface.

 

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That's great to hear, I just

That's great to hear, I just don't like his style.


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JeremiahSmith wrote: Edit:

JeremiahSmith wrote:
Edit: Waitaminute, what porn sites? I don't think Normal Bob runs ads at all, he doesn't need to.

Maybe he is talking about this although I don't see nudes here...

If you are getting pop-up you might want to get a pop-up blocker or some anti-adware stuff.



Honestly though if you are looking for a perfect angle to be an atheist spokes person you might need to come back to reality. People are human and people's vision of perfect is different.

I don't think trying to act like someone you're not is going to gain you anything in the long term. All its going to do is create skeletons in the closet and keep up the idea that people have to fit some mold to be a speaker or the idea of having taboo words or ideas is ok.

You also need to think about the style of all those before and how effective they were. What about the goals? What about how people think you should go about reaching them?

There is no one approach everyone has to follow. By having people acting honestly and doing things their way it creates diversity among atheists. This will lead to multiple approaches one of which should work for someone.


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They take the cam off of

They take the cam off of me, people bitch. I smoke on cam, people bitch. I can't fucking win here people!

 

 

BTW - I will quit smoking. Someday. But not today. Tongue out


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kellym78 wrote: They take

kellym78 wrote:

They take the cam off of me, people bitch. I smoke on cam, people bitch. I can't fucking win here people!

 

 

This is why we make sure to be true to ourselves, because we're never gonna make everyone else happy, so we might as well try to make ourselves happy.

 

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Lol, good to hear. That wlll

Lol, good to hear. That wlll make your reputation with theists and everyone alot better if you did quit and made it known. Just a suggestion.
And your right, the stuff on his site isn't porn. I just don't like his style. I like the Richard Dawkins intellectual style personally. RRS has alot of that too that's why I like listening to you guys.

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Those gays oughta stop

Those gays oughta stop partying and smoking and being all flamboyant, that'll definitely make their reputation with the homophobes. I prefer the quiet, shy gays who don't ever do anything anyone else hates, personally; I can't stand those in-your-face ones who dress fabulously and decorate houses and want to get married to each other and smooch in public.

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Unsavedsinner has a very

Unsavedsinner has a very good point and I think it's good that (s)he has spoken out. The RRS can do what ever they like after all it's their site, time, funding etc, however, I'm going to chuck my 2p (2c) into the debate because I think my point of view is similar but from a different country and can simply be weighed (agreed with or ignored) along with all the others. Treat it as feedback if you like.

1. Rap music - not my taste I can turn it off.

1a. Crap rap music with swearing - not my taste I can turn it off.

Anyone coming to the site for the first time has their ears or those around them assaulted without warning. Perhaps let them be warned first.

2. Smoking on webcam.

I personally don't find smoking on cam to be an issue, but when was the last time you saw a news reader or someone giving an interview smoking? I wouldn't kick puppies on camera even if it was legal if I was trying to make or argue a point unless it was defending why puppies should be kicked legally. It just invokes peoples emotions and helps stereotype.

3. Swearing - again it's the same argument as above.

I'd also like to chuck in another observance with regard to the show. Many RRS members responding at the same time. I know it must be hard when you are listening to some crap and you are itching to respond, but simply calling out the rebuttal without any structure makes for painful listening even though I agree with and I am interested in those rebuttals. Two atheists in mid flow can only be surpassed by two preachers trying to out preach each other! Fewer people in the studio or inviting guests/RRS hosts to respond is better imho.

I suppose my points can be sumned up as;

There is very little point in trying to invite someone in for dinner when the first thing they encounter is a large, st(r)eaming pile of smelly, shite at your door even though you or the guests you have inside were not bothered by it, all the while knowing the turd is a fake.

 

edit: for clarity. 

 

 


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Sapient

Sapient wrote:
Unsavedsinner wrote:
Lol, I know it sure seems that way, but no. I just think it puts atheists in a bad light. I just suggest to smoke off camera.
I'm actually a fan of this idea, but for a different reason. I'm tired of hearing 20 people whine about the health risks. I'll do my best to have it cut down on camera, no promises though.

It is certainly true that we communicate something with our every activity (assuming there is someone who can see it). While the idea of being PC can suck my dick, we have an undeniable impact (however trivial) on those that we encounter.

If the RRS is a group that is concerned with their impact on health in general society they would certainly want to take steps in minimizing the poor health habits they promote. Claiming that you don't care is one thing, but claiming that you are not advocating something that is openly practiced during your show is another. So far as I can tell you guys [RSS] are well aware of the health risks of smoking and take this stuff into consideration. It is also clear that you weigh the importance of your message against propriety regarding the habits you promote.

As far as the cursing and rap music? We communicate with our body language, our tone and words, as well as by showing the things that we enjoy. If we dress in a way and listen to music which is not popular among the people we are communicating with, our message will likely suffer for it. That is not to say the message can't get out or can't make an impact ... just that it will get filtered through the "clothes and speach" purifier. This is splitting hairs and is a pretty moot point, but that's my take on it.

 

{edit for clarity}