RRS Jihadist: the Dialogue
Offline Many of you know that I have been watching and researching Timf1234 due to some strange comments he has made in the past few weeks. I have provided the community proof of his identity and offered him the opportunity to be honest. So far, we have seen little improvement. Because the discussion has occurred within other threads, I will compile them here.
The conversation had begun thus:
Pariah, you are most beguiling. I smelled the stench of jihadism on this post as well.
I am pleased to see Tim has stepped away from forcing discussions of definitions before debating the real issue. He has, however, begun to show his true colors, and I have been putting the pieces together.
I will do so here because "justice" is ostensibly the point of discussion in this thread. Justice, interestingly, is synonymous with Nemesis. I shall don her cloak as I lay forth my proofs.
When Timf1234 began to post here, I found many of his claims to be questionable. In particular, he claimed to be weak in English and an atheist. In fact, he would decry others as "theists" if a point struck too closely to him. I was among those so denounced.
So, I stopped interacting with him directly. I started to watch his turn of phrase and began to look for patterns. They arose. I will provide a more in depth analysis to the particulars later, once the truth has been revealed.
His verb placement and usage of adjectives was not of a Western European language pattern. In fact, I sent them to a friend of mine who is an expert in these matters. She found them to be devoid of European langauge base, in aggregate.
Next, I turned to the issues Tim seemed most concerned about. These issues are primarily the issues examined by modern scholars of the Qu'ran, not Biblical scholars. So, again, I was drawn to the notion that he was not Western European.
I began to search other boards. Now, I began to find interesting results. I was, in fact, beSOTTed with what I found. There was an individual arguing for radical, islamic jihad with a different avatar and name that our Timf1234 but with some other identification that was astonishingly clear.
So, I will leave room for the possibility that I have made errors. I am also willing to provide my sources of proof (the other sites in question). I guess I would just ask why a jihadist would attempt to cloak himself as an atheist on the board.
Have you any answers Tim? What is your true view?
To which he responded:
Nero,
It sounds like I got under your skin.
First some of you accused me of theist.
When that did not work, you started name calling.
Some of you had no counter argument against my powerful argument for "No Free Will".
You admit it or not, I was able to give you the glimpse of the truth. But It was so bitter you couldn't swallow it. It hurt you so bad. Obviously, many of you started hating me.
Now, you took me so seriously that you have started to research on the internet about me. I must be getting your attention.
Why are you so frustrated? Is it because you couldn't swallow the truths I showed you?
Now you are accusing me of being Jihadist.
Did you read my post at this link: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/freethinking_anonymous/9270Specially pay attention to the first and last 3 paragraphs in that post.
The only people I just can't stand are the one who cannot reason.
You want my views on the world politics? I will post some, later.
So, I provided this set of evidence:
Tim,
You didn't get under my skin. I just realized that what you say does not conform with certain lines of argumentation and the verbiage you use. I could smell something was amiss and poked around to see whether you would just admit that you are a wolf's head is sheep's clothing.
You did not, however. So, I did the research mentioned in my previous post and looked for attachments of your address to other sites specializing in religion or atheism. What I found was disturbing, a mixture of religion and politics that are not well received in educated spheres. As for your politics, we will discuss them when I dictate. I will post them for you, and my fellow RRS readers can judge for themselves.
RRS members, when you go to these sites, look for the individuals called SOTT. SOTT is an acronym meaning Sight of the Truth. Remember, Tim's address is the same here and at these sites. You can find his writings here:
http://www.vicious-arrogance.com/AO/Forum/viewmsg.cfm?DID=12404
http://www.vicious-arrogance.com/AO/Forum/viewauthorinfo.cfm?AID=sott
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=105099&highlight=&sid=459bbdfae14214fb2a91351dec209aa6
So, this is a taste of what I know, Tim. I am digging further into your past, and you have left a trail as wide and bright as I could hope for.
You see, Tim, I am not slinging abuse at you. Your inconsistency on this site led me to my research. You have labeled yourself a jihadist in other places. You also refer to the damage that should be done to my home country, USA. I, also, found this disturbing; thus, my research was spurred on.
So, are you going to discuss the truth with us now, or will you continue to attempt to avoid the reality? I would advise the former because I am still researching. It looks as if you have been quite busy with known jihadists. I will post these links in the next installment, unless you would prefer to post them yourself in advance.
Until then,
His response:
Keep trying.
Learn to understand, make connection, try to get to the bottom of the message.
Sarcasm! think about it. Deep meaning between the lines I write.
to find the truth it is absolutely necessary to play both side.
I am not here to make more bear buddies but to test my theories, and learn from each other.
I am experience. I know, for fact about 50% of the atheists are as dumb as theist. They both are brainwashed in one direction or another.
However, other half are really good.
I want to discuss things, argue with this 50%.
Yes, I do have my standard below which I won't go the extra miles to talk/discuss complex issues with brain wash people.
Keep digging...
To which I replied most recently:
Tim,
You have attempted to take cover in what I will call the "confused polyglot defense." BGH has kindly pointed out that you are altering your syntax and grammar from post to post.
Proof has been set before you, and you do not deny it. Your reply is neither enigmatic nor profound. In fact, when we look to your posts as SOTT, we find that once you were decried for your true self, you did the same thing. So, another tendril of your past grows around you.
Just tell the truth about what you believed. If you are apostate, we understand. If you had dealing with Abdul Rahman, tell us about them. The culture of RRS is one of growth and mutual understanding.
What cannot be allowed are lies. If you deceive us about who you are and what you believe, why would any of us bother dealing with you? It is impossible to seriously discuss anything if the other person keeps changing who they are. Only in Murat's strange world could the phrase, "Dans la nuit, tous les chats sont gris," be true.
So, we all wait now. Trying to hide behind language will not work because we have seen you fluently argue in English. Claiming to be a simple atheist will not work because we have seen your jihadist writings. Only through the manifestation of truth can conversation proceed. I assure you that this will be a constant point of conversation in all of your threads until you respond appropriately and rationally to the evidence before you.
I will update this thread as the conversation continues.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
- Login to post comments
Offer accepted.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Um, wow. I've been away from the forums all day and am only just catching up on this stuff. I have to say, Tim, this is really rude and offensive to those of us who don't have any degrees, money and are still trying to 'connect all the dots'. I would really like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but clearly you wouldn't do that for me. A shame.
I suppose do to my lack of everything you've mentioned above I am now relegated to the moron table. Tsk, tsk.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Susan,
I am honored. You are spending time on my sloppy menifest.
For some reason I think you are more reasonable and sharp than others.
Poor HD, he is simple, down to earth, but guillable guy became victim of Nero, JCs and some other foolish atheists.
What fascinates me is this, why it is so hard for people to figure this out if I am a Jihadist or not.
I do not want to say something that will be just give away. Why should I? I think there is overwhelming message in the menifest that clearly show one way.
Please tell me honestly, Di dyou not find anything in the menifest that shows one way or the other if I am a Jihadist or Anti-Jihadist?
And specially, when you put together all the other topics I have posted and argued for or against it, is that question still not answered?
If the answer is Yes. Then God (figuratively speaking) help us all, then the menifest is right for the gullible West.
Yesterday, I watched the movie, Borne's Ultimatum.
It was very cool to note how NSA folks communicate, send messages.
Some NSA lady officer told Borne over the phone that his birthday was on 15, April, 71 and that he was born somewhere in the East Coast.
Given the context, Borne and the NSA officer met at 415 East 71st street. But so were the rest of the NSA team. Even that was not encrytic enough. Amazing.
It will take just one mouse click to bann me from RSS.
I already have posted FBI and Home Land Security Phone number as well.
PariahJane,
Wait a minute.
Did i write that to you? I remember typing that but not to you.
I have repeatedly said, that about half of the atheists are brain washed. But other half are pretty smart. I respect them.
I make fun of brain washed theists then why shouldn't I make fun of brain Washed atheists? That is justice in my logical dictionary.
I did not call you moron.
You did not attack me and I did not attack you.
You have to take things in perspective and in context.
Note how you asked me questions and how I seriously I responded. Then when some one comes in an attack my sincerity I attack back. It is just a back and forth insult and personal attack. useless. I do not like this. But I will have to do so because I am very good in reading the message and intent of posts. Nero and JC, know that they are wrong concluding that I am a Jihadist but they are doing it just to attack me because I exposed flaws in their logic.
Look around in my posts you will find I have praised about you and some other atheists.
If you want to save yourself time, skip the stupid personal attacks posts betwen me and some others. Just go directly to the serious talk. Looking at the logic of it you will know which one is serious and which one is just mud slinging. Just take the truth and throw away the rest from my post. No one will offer you the truh in a silver plater. It will always come mixed. So it is here.
Why not settle the whole matter and do what your supposed alter-ego didn't? Call Muhammed a pig.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
What fascinates me is why you insist on being vague and insulting.
Why can't you just clearly and succinctly offer arguments/opinions and back them up?
You're right about being one click away from being blocked. However, it's not because of what anyone thinks you might be. It's because you continue to insult the people here.
Right here. Right now. Stop with the insults. If you've read around the forums, you will see that I do not say that lightly or easily, but if there are any more insults, I will block your account myself.
[edited for clarity]
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You did not write it specifically to me, but honestly, your intent was there. I've been reading all of these threads that you are involved in. I gather from your posts that you do feel you are much better than most of us here at the forum. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
Making fun of someone because you think they are brainwashed isn't going to get you anywhere. You have so easily dismissed so many posters because you consider them stupid. Nor do I find ridicule to be synonymous with justice.
People have a right to question your sincerity. Instead of defending it, you attacked them. Why? It seems as if you were so offended that someone dare question you that you immediately went on the offensive.
You haven't answered the question that people are asking you. You leave a clear internet trail. Then you get offended when people draw their own conclusions from the information they see. I find Nero, jce and BGH (among many others) to be wonderful contributors to this forum and I've come to learn a lot from the both of them. I doubt that their intention was to have you banned because they disagreed with you.
I have to say I feel disappointed. I feel like you had much to say but it wasn't what you meant after all.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
JeremiahSmith:
Please read the following, specially last 3 paragraphs.
Following applies to Christians extremists too.
However, there are fewer Christians extremist who are willing to be suicide bombers than Muslims are.
For the Muslims brothers who hang out at FFI (www.news.faithfreedom.org) and www.jihadwatch.com too much:As-Salam-AlaikumYou hang around at infidel’s website too much.
Are you having second thought about Islam?
Please do not, because....
If you ever leave Islam then Allah will burn you in hell for EVER.
Allah will peel off your skin head to toe while you are conscious.If you become unconscious with pain then he will provide you with more consciousness to ensure you can feel the pain to its maximum level.
Manmade Humane Geneva Convention will not apply.
ACLU cannot protect you there
ICJ (International Court of Justice) doesn’t have jurisdiction there.] And please, do not bring up empathy, compassion, sympathy, pity, forgiveness in this case. Allah knows the best. Allah will then cut you into pieces.
He will then put salt and paper on your flesh.
Then he will burn you again.
If you ask for water then my dear, all merciful, compassionate, All-mighty Allah will give you molten lava to drink.
If you started to die, my Almighty Allah will give you another life and another, and yet another forever.
This is my message to you. There is no god but Allah
Interestingly this is the Allah I worship. This is the Allah who I admire, I love and I consider my ideal.
By the command of Allah I describe to you the characteristic of the entity I look up to.
From the above description of the creator as it is described by the person did you learn more about Allah or about that person, the messenger, the founder?
What do you think about the character, psyche, soul, and deepest darkest desires of the person who describes above characteristic of the creator, the entity he admires, loves, holds as ideal and look up to?
What do you expect from the 1.2 billion followers of such a person? Peace? Or Terrorism?
As you can see, Tim Ferrer (timf1234), no one is interested in your ideas or questions now. The small spark that such questions might cause are overwhelmed by the glare of your failure to answer some central questions.
Susan laid out your manifesto (not manifest, those list who is on an airplane) and politely asked for an answer. You pushed her aside.
You would do well to realize that no one on the forum is coming to your aid. Now, let's start again.
We require you to explain:
1. Your previous jihadist writings
2. What grants you the right to abuse the members of this forum
3. Why you are obfuscating what should be an easy discussion.
You have been brought back to point. I have forwarded the information that I have gleaned about you to the authorities. You are not in NY though. I contacted the the central agencies in Washington, provided them the links, and explained what your writings state.
I can trace where you have been on the internet. The federal government, specifically the anti-terrorism unit of the FBI, will be able to find where you are physically based on the same trail.
I, sir, am an American first. You seem to be unstable and hold some dangerous views. I agree with your conclusion that the authorities should be alerted to your sympathies. You may discuss definitions until the end of the world, but I will not stand by while you threaten our nation.
Please not the sangfroid of my tone. I am done mincing words. No one here is laughing. Sedition is a much worse crime than poor syntax.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Use your amazing intellect to explain to me why you claim I said age had anything to do with wisdom? That was JCE, not me. And yet you talk about 'double-blind tests', pffft, you can't even double check to see who wrote what. I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, since it's based on a false premise (again, just like your 13 commandments).
Honestly Timf1234, I'm beginning to think you are seriously deluded.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
So was Muhammed a pig or not?
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
I would love to hear you answer this, make the simple statement....
Muhammed was a dirty, smelly, lowly, pig.
I am sure I am not the only mod that would like to see this answered in a straighforward manner. You refused and dodged this on the other message boards, let's see how you handle it here.
But that would spoil all the fun.
It would be just give away.
Eventually I might say some ting obvious.
But I insist, menifest is my best defence.
That is another quiz for you folks.
Nero,
You are provoking me, stalking me.
You are trying to have me say something to find a reason to ban me.
Smart atheists will be able to see that. this post of yours is a provocation.
You wrote: "You seem to be unstable and hold some dangerous views."
So, are you the moral or sanity cop?
If RRS is fair (just) they should give you the warning for stalking me and provoking me with your not only false but stupid accusations.
You wrote: "Why you are obfuscating what should be an easy discussion.
You did not make it easy. You are the one who first tried to dig up dirt on me.
First accusing me of a theist ( initially thought of christian nut) when that did not work now of Jihadist.
So, why don't you ban me? It just take 1 or 2 mouse click.
That will be the end of all discussion.
I have nothing against any moderators of RRS but you are a diffent story.
Now, I am sick and tired of taking the stalking from you. I really DO want to get banned now.
I will spent the time painting my home then.
Careful dodgin' like that, man, you might throw your back out.
Was Muhammad a pig or not?
Also your grammar and syntax in this post seems at odds with your post after it.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
Muhammed is a pig.
I'm still waiting for your 'double-blind tests' that are supposed to confirm your ideas Timf1234. Seriously, where are they? Also what are your credentials again? You said you have many, name some off for me please.
So in short (since you are supposedly inadequate in English), this is what I want from you:
1. Any credentials of yours
2. The 'double-blind' tests that support your ideas.
I'm only asking for these because you have claimed to have them (credentials, 'double-blind' tests). Yet have produced nothing. Extraordinay claims require extraordinary evidence, that's all I'm asking for. Your testimonials can only be believed by a fool, which is really what you are looking for.
ETA: clarity
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
What kind of credential are you looking for?
Did you mean degrees? NASA awards or Scholarship?
You will have to do your own Qualified, 3rd Party Double Blind Test on the internet. It will cost you time and money. I am not going to pay for it. Here are the steps you need to follow.
1. You will have to pick few folks who you consider smart, like have multiple higher degrees in science. You cannot tell them about our dispute and mutual attacks. Fact is there is already dislikeness between us. We can't let that cloud our judgment. Can we?
2. Ask them to write 10 or 20 complex questions with an intention to find smart people.
3. Then you post those questions in the internet at appropriate sites, atheists, agnostic, or scientific sites or without knowing religious affiliation.
4. Then you collect the response. Then you count the score. Top 20 or so as judges.Each of us can disqualify 1 or 2 judges at the most for any reason after asking them questions. (Similar to jury selection.)
5. Have someone else record our trial procedure and the result - a clerk may be who has no interest or knowledge of the topic.
6. We both present our cases to these judges.7. See the resultEnd of Qualified, 3rd Party Double Blind Test algorithm.
Now I am just following these threads to see when he gets banned or... imagine him talking on stickam? I wonder if he does different voices for his multiple personalities (or roleplay as he calls it)
Now, I do want to get banned. It will free me to do my more mundane job, like painting my house.
I mean it. I am tired of talking stalking from some of you.
You could just, you know, stop posting on your own, ya big dumbass. Log out your account and when you get the urge to log back in say "No Tim! Don't log back in! You don't want to post there anymore, remember!" Problem solved! You can paint your house and you won't have to worry about people finding your old Jihad posts and asking you to make a little comment about the founder of a religion you claim to hate.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
Lol, why don't you just leave then? Is your goal on these forums to get banned? Is that going to make you a martyr?
Tim don't joke, people have gotten banned when they have asked for it in the past. No, not doing dumb things or whatever, but saying the words "Ban me." They got it, although one guy complained afterwards...
Wow, way to not understand simple English. I sure wasn't asking what a double blind test is. I'm asking for the 'double-blind tests' THAT YOU HAVE. I want to SEE the RESULTS for myself. Do you understand? So far you have lacked any comprehension skills. And I'm guessing that if you happen to read a book written by a PhD, you assume his credentials, since you haven't shown any of yours. (I recall you asking another forum member their credentials when he kind of agreed with you... CHERRY PICKER).
So very simply.
Show me the 'double-blind' tests that YOU have seen. Very simple.
And since you most likely do not have any credentials related to your ideas, I'll consider it irrelevant.
If you CAN NOT produce(show) your 'double-blind' tests (the data) don't bother replying to me.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
You will have to do your own double blind Test. You have to do it. it is going to cost you time and money.
Are you connecting dot to Jihad again?
Yup, didn't think so, you have no data. And how would linking us all to your 'evidence' cost you money? You want us to agree, but refuse to produce evidence.
Your ideas without evidence are about as useful as a PhD in Bowling.
I'm done with your illogical, border-line insane arguments. You have been unable to understand anything I've written this far, so I see no reason for you to grasp anything I say now.
eta:clarity
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
Thanks for the advice.
Actually, I was not joking. it is taking too much of my time. I got no free will to stop it. That is why I am hoping they will ban me so that I can get back to my daily work.
I am serious.
Thanks for the advice.
I really want to get banned becasue RSS is taking to much of my time. I have no free will to control myself.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
Yet, it is true.
Just give him what he wants, then. He's incoherent.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
RRS, just a quick follow-up on the authorities I contacted last evening. I just got off the phone, and they are now fully aware of this potential threat. They have reviewed Tim's previous postings at the other sites and feel they have sufficient reason to send agents out to "examine the situation."
So, it doesn't really matter whether he is banned. It would appear that the federal government will deal with him for us. Oh yeah, Tim, if you see this, look at the weather forcast below for Guantanamo Bay.
6:55 am on August 9, 2007Observed at:
Guantanamo Bay NAS,
Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 10000 ft 3048 m
Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 22000 ft 6705 m
Partly Cloudy. High 89 °F 32 °C. Low 75 °F 24 °C.
Chance of a Thunderstorm. High 89 °F 32 °C. Low 75 °F 24 °C.
Chance of Rain. High 89 °F 32 °C. Low 75 °F 24 °C.
Chance of Rain. High 91 °F 33 °C. Low 78 °F 26 °C.
Scattered Clouds. High 91 °F 33 °C. Low 78 °F 26 °C.
Chance of Rain. High 91 °F 33 °C. Low 78 °F 26 °C.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Why do you have to be connected to jihad in order to be a martyr? You are the one who did that connection.
Awww, look how happy the sun is.... Tim will have fun at camp!
I could have sworn I saw a post by Timf1234 last night that said "Mohamed is a pig," and something along the lines of, "you've ruined my fun," but It isn't here this morning.
Maybe I just imagined it, but I don't think so...
I saw a post that said: "I could say Mohamed is a pig but that would ruin the fun wouldnt it?" Or something along those lines
I would basically be saying everything Hambydamnit and Nero have said, if I weren't so busy.
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Tim, you're missing the point. People here don't feel there is good reason to engage you in a conversation about anything until they can determine if you are a trustworthy individual. So far the suspicion level on your dishonesty is at threat level orange.
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You said you wanted to be banned 2 or 3 times followed up by "I am serious." Your wish has been granted.
As for suggesting that Nero is called the "Moral or Sanity Cop" I think the suggested title is a good one, and if he pulls another trick like this, I think such a title is in order.
Good riddance.
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There's only one way to deal with insanity. Nip it in the bud. Nip it! Nip it! Nip it!
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Good catch.
Sorry to keep this thread going, but I didn't want to start another.
So Timf1234 has moved on, over to RichardDawkins.net.
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21417&p=351623#p351623
Just in case someone had an account over there and wanted to share Tim's agenda with others.
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts
I guess he just has no free will to stop himself, huh!
*rolls eyes*