Pat Tillman...[EDIT: Pat Tillman Murdered?]

iluvc2h5oh
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Pat Tillman...[EDIT: Pat Tillman Murdered?]

 

IF you like the war, hate the war, hate the troops, hate Pat Tillman you have to give it to the man he took the hard road to stand by what he believed in. Here is the lastest declassified version of his last words...

 

Quote:
The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ...
"

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


Jarem Asyder
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While I hate the war, I

While I hate the war, I admire and respect Tillman. The fact that his death was used for political gain and the truth about his death is still being obscured is probably the worst kind of disrespect.

 Thats a great quote from him. first thing I thought when I read it... "Hah!" 


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The Pentagon is separately

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.
    

 Congressional investigators told the White House on Tuesday, July 24, 2007, that they intend to question several former Bush administration officials about their knowledge of Tillman's death, escalating their inquiry into the high-profile friendly fire case. (AP Photo/Photography Plus via Williamson Stealth Media Solutions, FILE)
Cpl. Pat Tillman is seen in a this 2003 file photo provided by Photography Plus. Congressional investigators told the White House on Tuesday, July 24, 2007, that they intend to question several former Bush administration officials about their knowledge of Tillman's death, escalating their inquiry into the high-profile friendly fire case.

                
At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

___

Associated Press reporters Scott Lindlaw in Las Vegas and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this story.

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


Tomcat
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After reading this this

After reading this this morning, I'm fucking proud. And FUCKING PISSED. Why was this stuff never brought up in the investigation in the first place? Why was it all hidden? Folks, if there IS a conspiracy going on with anything in this administration, THIS is it. What a fucking cover up. What DISGUSTINGNESS. Murder? We don't know. But covering up, and withholding information from Tillmann's own MOTHER (not to mention the REST OF THE WORLD) because it wouldn't play into Bush's thirst for propaganda to hear about the Atheist in a Foxhole who got capped three times in the head from close range by his own friendlies?  Lies.

Woe on Pat Tillmann, for our country's censorship of the truth followed him all the way to the remote mountains of Afghanistan, where he was, in his last moments, fighting to preserve and profess it.

My thoughts and heart are with the Tillmann family. May justice be served

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


Brian37
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ARE YOU READING THIS

ARE YOU READING THIS CHRISTIANS!

This is hypocracy at its worst. When a christian is on their death bed or about to die(IE) The Combine girl, and mention god you all froth at the mouth over the morbid advertisment.

Tillman was pissed and rightfully so that on his deathbed some clown basicallly spit in his face while he was dying.

Not once in any direct contact situation have I ever pontificated about someones beliefs, be it at a hospital bedside or at a funeral. I am not talking about my opinion outside that situation, I am talking about being directly involved in the moment.

That chaplin basically told a dying man fighting for his freedom to be an atheist was meaningless. Tillman wasnt just fighting for his freedom to be an atheist but that clown's right to be a Christian.

No one is demanding respect for a claim in a debate situation and no one should be afraid of blasphemy. But there is a basic human diginty issue in the context of a direct contact situation such as this THAT YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT and simply comfort the person.

I am proud of Tillman for fighting for everyone's freedom. But Tillman did not fight and die just so he could be told while he was dying that he was second class and should take a back seat to Christians.

That Chaplin should have kept his mouth shut or at least asked him what his position on god was before he assumed ESPECIALLY AT THAT MOMENT. Give the man his dignity. 

 

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Brian, the chaplain *heard*

Brian, the chaplain *heard* those statements from the last guy to see Tillman alive, several days *after* he was killed.

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Here is a link to another

Here is a link to another discussion on the forums regarding a commander's comments about Pat Tillman being an atheist.

 

 


D-cubed
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This is from an AP story

This is from an AP story today:

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Sadly the Bush regime says they are keeping more information classified because of "executive privilage" bullshit. From all this coverup by the Bush regime they may be hiding the fact that he was murdered by his fellow soldiers. The military has been Christianized since Bush stole office and so it wouldn't be surprising that some might take it on themselves to purge the military of godless infidels.


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D-cubed wrote: The

D-cubed wrote:

The military has been Christianized since Bush stole office and so it wouldn't be surprising that some might take it on themselves to purge the military of godless infidels.

Heh, that's been the case even before Bush, or papa Bush.  Religion and nationalism often go hand in hand.

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AP: New details on Tillman's death

By MARTHA MENDOZA, AP National Writer Fri Jul 27, 1:48 AM ET

SAN FRANCISCO - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

• In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

• Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

• The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

• No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

___

Associated Press reporters Scott Lindlaw in Las Vegas and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this story.

Check out this and other stories in the Newsletter HERE!

http://www.rationalresponders.com/0036_rrs_newsletter_for_july_30_2007

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Thought you all might be

Thought you all might be interested in this little tidbit