Supreme Court Backs Faith-Based Funding

Roisin Dubh
Roisin Dubh's picture
Posts: 428
Joined: 2007-02-11
User is offlineOffline
Supreme Court Backs Faith-Based Funding

Supreme Court nixes suit over faith-based plan

The 5-4 high court decision bars taxpayers from challenging initiative


var tcdacmd="dt"; BREAKING NEWSUpdated: 48 minutes ago function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633183783841270000');

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Monday barred ordinary taxpayers from challenging a White House initiative helping religious charities get a share of federal money.

The 5-4 decision dealt with a suit by a group of atheists and agnostics against eight Bush administration officials including the head of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.

The taxpayers' group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc., objected to government conferences in which administration officials encourage religious charities to apply for federal grants.

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
Vote with a bullet.  

Vote with a bullet.

 


Nero
Rational VIP!
Nero's picture
Posts: 1142
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
Roisin Dubh wrote:Supreme

Roisin Dubh wrote:

Supreme Court nixes suit over faith-based plan

The 5-4 high court decision bars taxpayers from challenging initiative


var tcdacmd="dt"; BREAKING NEWS Updated: 48 minutes agofunction UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD&quotEye-wink; if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false&#39Eye-wink?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633183783841270000&#39Eye-wink;

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Monday barred ordinary taxpayers from challenging a White House initiative helping religious charities get a share of federal money.

The 5-4 decision dealt with a suit by a group of atheists and agnostics against eight Bush administration officials including the head of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.

The taxpayers' group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc., objected to government conferences in which administration officials encourage religious charities to apply for federal grants.

Understand.  This is GW's true legacy.  Long after we have stopped being angry about Iraq, the conservative Supreme Court will continue to support unsettling agendas like the faith based initiatives.  A court properly stacked can sway the country for decades.

[edit: sp]

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15761
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
marcusfish wrote: Vote

marcusfish wrote:

Vote with a bullet.

 

I dont think we need to be at that point any time soon.

Media loves to spin this bullshit as being absolutly in favor.

The media spun the Newdow case as a "slam dunk" against him keeping the current pledge. When you actually go read the ruling the court didnt side with the people who wanted to keep "under God" in the pledge. They told Newdow that he did not have presidence in custody on behalf of his daughter.

Before you go jumping the gun, I'd be intrested in actually reading the rulling itself and not rely on media spin. There may be more to it than meets the eye. It is encouraging that it was a split dicision in any case. Makes it easy to reverse in the future. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Klarky
Klarky's picture
Posts: 70
Joined: 2006-04-10
User is offlineOffline
Eddie Tabash touches on

Eddie Tabash touches on these concerns on the recent CFI trip.

Pt1:

 

>

 

Pt2 Q&A:

won't embed for some reason, here's the link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4191917977194347234

 


D-cubed
Rational VIP!
D-cubed's picture
Posts: 715
Joined: 2007-01-04
User is offlineOffline
It appears, according to

It appears, according to the ruling, that since the President didn't directly give the money to the religious organizations that the federal government is the wrong agency to sue.  This is, of course, BS since the organizations apply to the federal religion office for funding and submit a proposal which is granted.

The Catholic five (I didn't read the 50 pages of opinion) argued that there was no injury to the FFRF.  I don't know why there has to be any.  That's like saying there was no clear injury to someone when I ran a stop sign, in any case it's illegal but the Supreme Court overlooks illegality often.  The First Amendment is a restriction upon the government to not fund religion, no statement of injury is required.

The pro-theocratic majority on the Surpreme Court would rule against the FFRF regardless of the evidence presented. 

From the decision: 

4.  A  taxpayer’s  purely  psychological  disapproval  that  his  funds are being spent in an allegedly unlawful manner is never sufficiently concrete  and  particularized  to  support  Article  III  standing.

 So if the police  use taxpayer funds to buy cocaine and get high then you can't sue them because your mental discomfort for an "alleged" illegality has no bearing.  This ruling is absurd.  If a law is broken then it's quite irrelevant how someone feels.

http://www.ffrf.org/news/2007/SCdecision062507.pdf


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
marcusfish wrote:

Vote with a bullet.

I dont think we need to be at that point any time soon.

Certainly true, which is why we should all be thankful that I am not calling the shots because I have lost all hope in our government system ever being anything but a vile nest of corruption...second in villainy only to the media.


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
I was talking to Jeff with

I was talking to Jeff with the Beltway Atheists and he was down at the supreme court today.  There was 1...I repeat ONE news crew there, NBC Pete Williams.  Jeff was asking the crew whether they even knew about the ruling and they had no idea.   Apparently everyone's talking about the BONG Hits for Jesus story, or the 64 million dollar pair of dry clean pants with a DC Judge.

He is going back this afternoon to see if they can at least mention it in the news.  Ridiculous.

 

Apparently, however, this decision affects only a small, minute number of potential lawsuits.  But it clearly shows how this new neocon court will be voting in the future about abortion, civil rights, and religious issues.  Hold on to your seats boys and girls, we're in for a bumpy ride.  This court has been hijacked...for a whole generation. 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Hopefully no more of them

Hopefully no more of them leave before Bush is finally out. And hopefully a few of the far right ones do with the next president. The fascist current supreme court is more evidence of the damage Bush did to this country.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Thanks Larry, for the good

Thanks Larry, for the good and terribly bad news. Hopefully this will recieve the attention it deserves.  But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

If god takes life he's an indian giver


rab
rab's picture
Posts: 273
Joined: 2007-02-18
User is offlineOffline
This is a bitter

This is a bitter disappointment, but hardly a surprise. This, on the days after Dick Cheney declared himself a branch onto himself.

Now, we can't even sue OUR government! At least it USED TO BE our government.Yell

Support the Separation of Church & State!
Freedom From Religion Foundation


marcusfish
Superfan
marcusfish's picture
Posts: 676
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
rab wrote: Now, we can't

rab wrote:
Now, we can't even sue OUR government! At least it USED TO BE our government.Yell

This government has absolutely no fear of it's people. It knows for a fact that we are under their thumb. They prove it every day with blatant disregard for the rules that were designed to protect us FROM the government in the first place.

It is not our government. We are their servants.

I know I'm not being very constructive... 


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
rab wrote: This is a

rab wrote:

This is a bitter disappointment, but hardly a surprise. This, on the days after Dick Cheney declared himself a branch onto himself.

Now, we can't even sue OUR government! At least it USED TO BE our government.Yell

Oh wow Rab, that article is disgusting.

I did not only throw up in my mouth a little, lost my lunch from the last week and a half. This administration has completely bastardized the goverment most americans learned about in goverment / civics class. 


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
These people are chipping

These people are chipping away at our liberties.  By using religious "morality", "patriotic" nationalism, terrorism and esotericism, the neocons have managed to completely destroy this constitutional republic.  Our democracy is now in shambles and the people of this country are so fucking complacent that they are letting our government get away with murder, literally.  The republicrats just feed people with a spoon and the people just love to swallow. So long as the people have their fucking wal-marts and their pro-bass shops everyone's happy.  Don't tune into your mind, tune in to NASCAR and your preachers and your Rush Limbaughs and your Michael Moores.  Dumb down your critical thinking, let others do it for you...after all you have jesus, terrorism, and a super sale at wal mart to worry about.  You don't have time for thinking.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
The washington post did a

The washington post did a story on this:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/25/AR2007062500531.html?referrer=email&referrer=email&referrer=email

Justices Quash Suit Over Funds For Faith Groups

By William BraniginWashington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 26, 2007; Page A06

 

The Supreme Court ruled yesterday that federal taxpayers cannot challenge the constitutionality of White House efforts to help religious groups obtain government funding for their social programs, handing a victory to President Bush's faith-based initiatives program.

In a 5 to 4 decision, the court blocked a lawsuit by a Wisconsin-based group of atheists and agnostics against the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. The court ruled that the suit, by the Freedom From Religion Foundation and three of its taxpaying members, could not go forward because ordinary taxpayers lack legal standing to challenge executive branch expenditures. The ruling reversed a January 2006 decision in favor of the foundation by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit.

 

Liberal groups blasted the court's decision in Hein v. Freedom From Religion Foundation as a setback for the First Amendment and a sop to the religious right, while the White House and religious conservatives hailed it as a major triumph for Bush's program.

The foundation had complained that parts of the program favored religious groups over secular ones, violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment, which says in part that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

The administration argued that the foundation's taxpayer plaintiffs lacked standing to sue because the faith-based initiatives office was not specifically funded by Congress.

In an opinion joined by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. wrote that "the payment of taxes is generally not enough to establish standing to challenge an action taken by the federal government." If it were, and every taxpayer could sue to challenge any government expenditure, the federal courts would be relegated to "general complaint bureaus," he wrote.

Alito's opinion stopped short of repudiating a 1968 Supreme Court ruling in Flast v. Cohen, in which the court recognized a narrow exception to the rule against federal taxpayer standing in an establishment-clause case.

While denouncing the decision, groups supporting separation of church and state took heart that only two justices favored overturning Flast. This means that most church-state lawsuits can proceed, they said.

Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas concurred in the judgment but held that Flast should be overturned because it has spawned "notoriously inconsistent" rulings.

Justice David H. Souter wrote a dissenting opinion joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer. Yesterday's decision "closes the door on these taxpayers because the Executive Branch, and not the Legislative Branch, caused their injury," he wrote. "I see no basis for this distinction in either logic or precedent."

 

 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Medievalguy
Medievalguy's picture
Posts: 281
Joined: 2007-03-01
User is offlineOffline
I gotta get out of this

I gotta get out of this country, I can't stand it anymore. There was another ruling they did limiting student free speech..... It will take years for enough of these guys to die so we can swing the court back. Until then life is going to get worse and worse. I think I'm gonna move to the UK....Frown


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Medievalguy wrote: I gotta

Medievalguy wrote:
I gotta get out of this country, I can't stand it anymore. There was another ruling they did limiting student free speech..... It will take years for enough of these guys to die so we can swing the court back. Until then life is going to get worse and worse. I think I'm gonna move to the UK....Frown

 

Where's cancer when you need it? 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Voided
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-20
User is offlineOffline
This sort of reminds me of

This sort of reminds me of Newdow in how they seem to not want to touch the issue so they say people can't challenge it...

I don't study law so maybe this is somehow ok and has been used in other areas, but it still sounds like bullshit. 


High Pope
High Pope's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2007-05-11
User is offlineOffline
1st Amendment Establishment Clause No Longer Applies To Executiv

[Mod Edit: joined from a similar thread] 

 

http://ffrf.org/news/2007/heinvFFRF.php

 

above is the webaddress where you can read the article with links to the actual court decision.

 

Today is a sad day not only for Atheists Agnostics and Freethinkers, but for all Americans.

 

Not only does the Establishment Clause of our First Amendment no longer apply to the Executive Branch of the US Government, But now American Taxpayers do not have the ability to challenge any Presidential Discresionary Spending.

 

President Bush can fund any religious organization he chooses with Taxpayers money, and is entirely protected under this supreme court ruling from any legal action from American Taxpayers.

 

I honestly thought Hein vs. FFRF was a slam-dunk for the FFRF. Ive Been Sick all morning thinking about the Ramnifications of this ruling.

There is no Freedom From Religion in America, We are heading toward Theocratic rule. Period.

 


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13210
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Impeach. Impeach Impeach

Impeach. Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach Impeach IMPEACH

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


HumanisticJones
HumanisticJones's picture
Posts: 159
Joined: 2007-02-07
User is offlineOffline
What most Christians who

What most Christians who are applauding this don't realize is that now large numbers of them can be screwed over and they don't have the standing to sue on it.

If a Catholic president decides to use the general appropriations fund and an executive order to funel money into Catholic churches only, the Methodists, Baptists, and Lutherans are out of luck. Thanks to this ruling they'll just have to deal with it.

If the Department of Homeland Security issues an executive order that those funds be used to build Mosques in every major city to deter Islamic discontent, the members of the Fundamentalist church down the street has no say in their members taxes being used to do so.

By this precident, every single American can now have their personal beliefs stamped into the ground by way of an executive order and their own taxes. Its time to be loud and disobediant. In the words of Jefferson, "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

I really hope it doesn't come to that, but the government seems to think that it is free from the judgement of its people these days.

The Regular Expressions of Humanistic Jones: Where one software Engineer will show the world that God is nothing more than an undefined pointer.