My wife has become a religious fanatic

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My wife has become a religious fanatic

I am really glad I found this forum, I don't want any help or advice or anything like that, I just want to vent my anger and frustration and bewilderment. I don't think there is any hope for her, there is no reasoning with her whatsoever. She has been crazy for almost six years now, but it has only been since November of 2005 that she has become a hardcore religious fanatic.

Saturday night (Father's Day Eve btw) at about ten-fifteen, she left with our two children, ages three and five, saying that she was going to her friends house to return something she had borrowed and would be right back. An hour went by, and I thought, well, her friend is really talkative, and my wife doesn't know how to just interrupt and say, "Well, I gotta go" so I wasn't too worried. But after an hour and a half went by,  I call her friend, and she said she never came by. I knew immediately what was going on. I jumped on my motorcycle and had the full intention of chasing her down, as there is only one way out of this town and the next town is 172 miles away, but I turned around after about ten miles. I was way too pissed off and I might have done something I would have regretted. My wife calls me at six the next morning, saying that she couldn't take it any longer, that she couldn't afford to let our children be around me anymore, that they deserved a Christian upbringing and that the word of God is the greatest gift that a parent could give to a child.

I cannot even begin to tell you what a nut she is, the only reason I have been with her this long is because of the kids, who I love more than anything in the world. Her whole family is nuts, her dad is one of the leading anti-abortion crusaders in the US and was one of the lead suspects in a high-profile murder of a doctor who performed abortions, but the DA or whoever decided to try the other guy. Her sister is even more of a fanatic but in a different way. The first time I ever met her she started telling me a story of how Jesus wanted his followers to "contribute to society by working and to accept authority", I don't know where she got that from, and then she related the tale of Jesus washing the feet of peasants. She was doing this because she assumed I was an atheist, and also because I told her I was retired (I was 32 at the time). I told her that I was not religious, that I was Agnostic (I am an Atheist, but I was more cowardly then), and that I didn't like talking about religion and politics. She told me that if we weren't talking about Jesus, we had nothing to talk about.

But to get back to my wife...I don't know where to begin. She has attacked me physically many times, spit in my face, had me arrested for assault (she screamed and cussed at me in front of the kids for 20 minutes, threw a heavy tape measure at me which hit me in the chest, and only then did I slap her, and I will admit I slapped her HARD), kicked me in the nuts in front of a friend when I came home later than she expected after watching UFC fights until 2am, jumped out of our car while it was moving at about 20 miles an hour with our newborn son in the backseat (she was mad at me for absolutely no reason fathomable to me--I was in the middle of teaching a class that she was observing when she picked up our son, stormed out the door, slamming it behind her so everyone would know just how mad she was, and then went outside and sat in the car, in 100 degree Texas heat, until I had to stop what I was doing and go out there to see what the deal was, and then I just had to leave because she was so hysterical, the students were just left all alone wondering). These are just a few examples, there are so many incidents like this but worse that I could fill a 900 page book easy. 

Some background, if it helps...she was brought up in various Protestant/Episcopalean religions, her dad and his dad before him were religious nuts and extremely racist and bigoted, her mom is actually quite reasonable but she is one of those "think happy thoughts" people, oblivious in other words, and I suspect she was probably a griping nagging bitch before she became a New Ager.My wife's dad, at some point, decided that run-of-the-mill religion wasn't strict enough, so after a very bitter divorce, he started looking for something better. He would take her and her sisters to all sorts of tent revivals and even went to that poisonous snake handler/cyanide drinker church in Tennessee whose head honcho looks exactly like Henry Lee Lucas, the mass murderer from Texas who isn't really a mass murderer but was willingly convicted of such (there was a 60 minutes special on that snake handler guy you might remember).  He eventually settled on Catholicism.

I know some of you must be thinking, "This guy must be a real desperate dumbass to hook up with this girl", but I can honestly tell you that for the first four months she was the coolest, most open minded, adventurous woman I have ever met, she never prayed or even spoke about God, she didn't care whatsoever that I drank beer every night as if the very next day Prohibition would be reinstated. We lived in a tent and had a new campsite every night on the side of the road outside of Anchorage where I was working. I was so enamored of her that I never even noticed the warning signs. I don't remember her ever eating...she would drink beer with me, but eating...she told me her stepmom and dad had both been on CNN for chasing down President Clinton in Houston while he was on a jog and yelling at him, "get out of here, we don't want scum like you in our neighborhood, babykiller" or something to that effect. She followed that up with "You'll love my dad, he's crazy like you" to which I replied, "Are you fucking kidding me, he is going to hate my guts, I've met people like that before, we'll probably get into a fistfight", and we did, the very first time I met this fruitcake, he told me he wasn't going to stand for his daughter having "pre-marial relations with an Atheist", so I told him to get off of my property. He half-yelled, half-spit at me, "Make me you slimy piece of shit", to which I calmly replied, "I've got some news for you, your child and wife-beating days are over". He tried decking me, but I ducked, picked him up, and slammed him right on his head into some decorative bushes near the porch, the type that are thick and strong and almost impenetrable to anything bigger than a squirrel. His head went all the way to the ground but the rest of his body was suspended by the bush. I could have beat him to a bloody pulp, but I just told him, "I'm gonna let you up, but if you try to hit me again, I am going to do some damage that you won't walk away from". He went home, defeated, but not finished. Before our son was even born a year later he told her younger sister, "I guess I'll have to take that baby from them, I won't have my grandson raised as an atheist."

Anyway, it's 2am here in Alaska, I just wanted to share some of this with you. The insanity and subtle yet obvious machinations of irrational behavior of my wife, I don't know what to say, I was almost crazy myself that night, if you ever met my children, you would know why I am so upset. If anyone is interested, maybe I will say some more tomorrow. I think often in times like this of a quote from Thoreau, "The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" (Walden, Economy). 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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I'd check into state law,

I'd check into state law, but I'm fairly sure this classifies as kidnapping. File a missing persons report, 3 of them, all with a "last seen with" clause, or whatever it's called. Or, just call the police and say "My wife kidnapped my kids." I'm fairly sure it's very illegal.


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hey thanks for the reply, I

hey thanks for the reply, I am still up at 3:30 am. you would be surprised at how little police or authorities will do for a man at odds with his wife, and how much they will do for a woman who accuses her husband. for instance, my wife merely had to call the Alaska State Troopers on me and the very next day they flew in, 45 below zero outside, and arrested me. When I drove up in my driveway, they were waiting for me with M16's like I was some sort of terrorist. I haven't actually been convicted of Assault--Domestic Violence, the lawyer keeps getting the trial delayed, but if I am, I will be, technically, a felon just for possessing any type of gun.

I hate cops, and I don't like to use the word hate, hate is like fear, it is a mental weakness, but I don't profess to be anything more or less than exactly what I am. I have fears and prejudices and weaknesses and many, many times of self-doubt and anguish and even pure, undeniable hatred. But calling the authorities on someone, I just don't believe in that. That is a cop-out, literally. People want someone to solve their problems for them. I would rather take the kids back and face the consequences of her telling the cops that I kidnapped them from her.  I don't know if I am appealing to my own "honorable" side,  but the last thing I want to do is to be like her and those like her, people who get on the phone and call the cops when their neighbor is being beaten and robbed as opposed to going over and actually helping. Right, wrong, stupid, knuckleheaded, or otherwise, you have to set standards for yourself, because if you don't someone will do it for you, and it is only in extreme situations that I would consider calling authorities.

Honestly, I haven't decided what I am going to do yet. I can't sleep, I am just sick...I don't know how to describe it...like trying to tell someone who is colorblind that no, the stoplight is red, not blue, but they don't know they are colorblind and they get angry with you and drive through every stoplight they come to at top speed. And what is my argument? That she is wrong and I am right? Try telling that to  a crazy person who has an entire community convinced that she is an angel and that I am the devil incarnate. Seriously, my logic might be skewed and I am tired and I have drank a six pack of beer, but after I was arrested for the assault I described above, there were lots of people in the town I live in who I had known for years before I met her who wouldn't even talk to me or acknowledge my prescence, the very epitome of the worst cold-shouldering you can imagine, and those very same people had never even spoken a word to her.

This same type of behavior can be seen in people who aren't necessarily religious, but when they have to choose sides in some "moral" battle, whether on TV or be it some local controversy,  they just automatically take the side of some religious person over someone who isn't. They "assume" someones goodliness because of their godliness, which they themselves are completely ignorant of. Jeepers, I feel like I am babbling, I've gotta go to bed sooner or later. Thanks again.

 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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Do not play into her hands

Do not play into her hands and do not pit the kids against her. You are in a tough spot, no doubt. However, do not allow her to make her hang ups your hang ups. The kids diserve both of you being impartial. Even if she is causing problems, dont fuel them.

Just do the best you can without putting the kids in the middle of it. Hard for me to say because I am not there. The truth will eventually come out.

I can say that with my sister that the truth came out eventually. She had 4 of her kids taken from her by her x-husband's parents. Those parents sold her as a bad person. So for a long time those kids thought she was. But when they grew up they saught to hear her side of it and now they understand that not everything the grandparents told them was true.

You may have to just wait it out and bite your tounge. Whatever you do, dont let her set you off and remember that you do love your kids and they come first, even if it means putting your views or ego on the back burner.

Your kids will grow up and at that point they will not be under her grip. It may suck to have to wait that long, but it is certainly better than causing a battle between you and her.

I'd also seek counciling as to HOW to deal with this so that you dont let this get to you to the point where YOU cant function. Those kids need you to keep a level head no matter what happens. You will have a chance someday to set the record strieght with them.

I know you didnt want advice. But put them first and always keep a level head and dont allow her to get the best of you. They are counting on you, even if they dont know it. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37
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You have tons more

You have tons more incentive not to get physical with anyone. When my x-wife told me she wanted a divorce we faught verbaly and it was a kick in the gut to my emotions and ego. It hurt. During one argument she slapped me in the face. I did not physically respond to her, I merely walked away.

This extends beyond spousal relationships. At work I have a friend who is 19, young and full of testosterone. He was telling me the just yesterday that he would not "take any crap from anyone|" and would "stand up for himself", meaning he'd go to jail with the satisfaction of knowing that he defended himself.

I flat out told him he was stupid. I said even if he didnt care about himself, would he want his mother visiting him in jail?

You really dont make a good case for yourself when you act out physically toward anyone for any reason. You are not a lawyer and have no clue how law inforcement will asses a given situtation, so why take that risk? Unless someone has a deadly weapon aimed at you, walk away.

Swallow your ego and pride. Put those kids first and keep yourself out of trouble. You wont find solutions in a bottle and you wont get sympathy here if you act out in violence. Your kids should be far too important to you to let her or anyone get to you like that. 

Keep your nose clean at all costs. Even if you dispise her that is no reason to take yourself out as a resource to those kids over something stupid you do. They are depending on you. You will get no sympathy from me if you act out in violence, toward her or anyone. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Thanks for the replies, I

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. To be honest, I do want suggestions, but I am at the point, after six years of this, that I don't think any appeal or dealings with her will work. And I will be damned if I let her poison my kids with her insanity. Some very disturbing thoughts have gone through my mind in regards to her. Sometimes I think there definitely is a God, and he doesn't like me, so he sent this demon to me disguised initially as an angel. Then again, I think in terms, yes, there is a devil, it is that crazy book known as the Bible. But of course, one only needs to read the following to know of the wisdom of the Lard:

"We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for? If she be a wall, we will build upon her a palace of silver: and if she be a door, we will enclose her with boards of cedar."
Song of Solomon 8:8-9

Amen my lack of sleep, between that and  Threes  Company  reruns, I  might  actually  learn something tonight.

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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According to the fundies

According to the fundies own numbers, only 30% of Christian teens say they will continue to participate in the church once they are living on their own.  So you can take some comfort that, even in the worst case scenario in spite of all their brainwashing, they lose more than they keep.  They didn't manage to keep me.

And then just one more suggestion, and I hope you take this in the spirit that it's intended.  I grew up in Texas and I drink every day and I own guns and I defend your right to do whatever you want within your rights.

But if you have anger issues to the point where you have ever struck people, then it's not a good idea to have guns or alcohol around yourself.  If you are gone to the point where you can't stop drinking completely for the sake of your kids (to set an example if nothing else that a person who doesn't belong to the church can live a balanced, ethical life), then it's time to seek professional help.

"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


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this is my cynisim kicking

this is my cynisim kicking in. I'm worried because if you get a divorce the fact that she is religious might sway the court and/or judge to think the kids belong with her. I have read and heard of many times this happening.  It  sounds like the kids would be better off with you (not because your an atheist but becuase she's emotinoally unstable).


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Welcome to the boards. Look

Welcome to the boards.

Look I mean no offense, especially if what you say is true, but how do I know? Not saying I have a reason not to trust you, but on the other hand I have a difficult time just believing a story like this from someone right away.(trust is my problem I know)

So if it's true than that's shitty and I wish you luck, but I'm just not buying it. 

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No one is saying that you

No one is saying that you have to put up with it. BUT YOU DO HAVE TO OBEY THE LAW.

What good are you to those kids if you do anything stupid?

Check your ego at the door.

No one said life is easy and you are not the only one dealing with this issue. You are not going to get any sympathy here if you act outside the law.

Your frustration is understandable and many here have kids and others here have had to deal with x's and children as well.

The worst thing you can do is put yourself at risk of losing any possible future with them. Things may not be rosy now, but they'd be far worse if you do something stupid. THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!

I really would suggest you seek a mental health professional in dealing with this. You should not try dealing with this alone in the emotional state you seem to be in right now.

What do you have to gain by keeping your cool? A chance in the future to have something with them. A chance to have them hear your side of it when they grow up. You wont have any credibility if you blow that losing your cool over a beef you have with her. If you dont want to do it for yourself, do it for your kids.

You get yourself in trouble over anything you are not doing yourself or them any good whatso ever.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Is the proverb "Blood is

Is the proverb "Blood is thicker than water" true?

Answer: No! It's bullshit!

Pay your child support.

Let it go.

And move on.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Thanks for the replies, but

Thanks for the replies, but please don't jump to conclusions about me because I happened to mention assault, guns, beer, etc, then look at my screen name and think that you are doing a bang up job of reading between the lines. Last night was the first time I have drank in a long time, I bought a six-pack, not a case, and I am not violent. I detest violence and I won't even watch movies with violence in them. To the person who says they don't believe my story, well, I don't know what to say to you. You have the right to your opinion. I am not going to try to prove any of it to you with court documents or pictures or anything else, that would be silly, this is a forum, not a courtroom. 

But to get back to my story of my wife becoming a religious fanatic, I mentioned that it started in November of 2005. This is when she went to visit her older sister in Austin for a month. When she first got there, she told me her sister made her feel completely uncomfortable, she cried often that she wished she hadn't went down there because she was somewhat stuck there until her return flight, and if she changed it to an earlier return date, for her and two kids it was going to cost us a lot of money. But after she was there for about four days, she said everything was better and they were getting along fine, etc. And this is where it gets weird, so for the person who doesn't believe me, don't read any farther. I started to notice her using words and phrases she had never used before, her voice started sounding different. After she was down there about ten days, I couldn't tell her voice apart from her sister's when I would call.

I had noticed a little bit of this problem before, but not to this extent. We had a friend in town for awhile from a backwater town in North Carolina that used strange phrases in her speech, and my wife started using them too after they became really good friends. It is like she wants to be someone else who is, in her mind, better off than her, i.e. she can't accept her own identity. The craziest part about her is that she only acts like a lunatic around me, her mom, and her younger sister, the people who love her the most. To anyone else, she appears to be completely sane, yet she will attack her mother for no reason, and tell her she hates her, spit in her face, etc., like she does me. One time, after she had just told me how "changed...for the better" she was, she borrowed a shirt from her younger sister. Her sister walked her out to the car when she was leaving, and politely mentioned something about bringing the shirt back whenever it was convenient. My wife went nuts on her, took the shirt off, threw it in her sister's face, then drove to her brothers house 5 miles away with no shirt or bra on, with two kids in the car.

I realize that this is a problem not wholly caused by religious fanaticism, she is obviously whacko in more ways than one, but when you add religion on top of all the other problems she has, it really just intensifies the situation. Even the most well-thought-out reasoning and appeal to rational, sensible thought goes in one ear and out the other with her. I could actually tolerate the religious nonsense, even with the children, if it wasn't for all the other insanity that she engages in. I know that they probably won't become religious nuts like her, but it is the backlash of having all that guilt and self-loathing that worries me. I had a cousin who grew up with a Jehoveh's Witness grandmother, and when he finally came to reject everything she had been telling him, he really rebelled to the extent that he was in prison at twenty and dead at thirty from a drug overdose. Well, now I am rambling again. More later, and thanks again for the replies. 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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from AiiA:  "Is the

from AiiA: 

"Is the proverb "Blood is thicker than water" true?

Answer: No! It's bullshit!

Pay your child support.

Let it go.

And move on."

 

You must not have kids, things are never that simple, and blood is thicker than water, I don't know the exact viscosity figures, but I am certain I could find out, this is the internet after all. 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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I'm very disturbed by some

I'm very disturbed by some of the advice people are giving you here.

Please do not under any circumstances give up on your children. Picture them at 18 years old coming to you and asking "Why didn't you save us from those crazy people?" And that's if they are lucky enough not to become the same as the rest of your wife's family. Parental indoctrination is still the primary transmitter of religious insanity!

This looks like it will become a serious child custody battle, and the very first thing you should do is contact an attorney that specializes in father's rights. That way you can get real professional advice on what you need to do.

Be prepared for all the arguments that your wife will bring against you. She will probably claim you are an alcoholic, so stop drinking completely so that you can honestly tell the judge how long you have gone without drinking. Write down detailed accounts of any physical altercations you may have had, or any that she might claim were violent (even if they weren't).

Because of the prejudice against atheists, you will have to be prepared to demonstrate your moral character. For the sake of your children, clean up anything that may reflect poorly on your lifestyle. Religious zealots will assume you are lying, so anything you can do that will have verifiable proof is a plus. Keep your place clean and child-safe. No weapons, no booze.

I know you don't want to involve the authorities, so please talk to that lawyer so that you won't accidentally do something that she can call the cops on you for. You have to do everything by the book so that the courts won't eventually side with her because of some mistakes you made from ignorance of the law.

Please call someone right away. It may be that she ruined her case by stealing the children, and by taking the high road you could set yourself up for a strong victory.

Good luck, man.

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I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt


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How old are your kids?

How old are your kids?


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Heinous Berzerker

Heinous Berzerker wrote:
You must not have kids, things are never that simple, and blood is thicker than water, I don't know the exact viscosity figures, but I am certain I could find out, this is the internet after all.
I do have kids (all grown).

Surely you've heard of the old proverb "blood is thicker than water", it means family comes first.

I disagree. I come first.

 

PS good luck 

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Heinous Berzerker

Heinous Berzerker wrote:

To the person who says they don't believe my story, well, I don't know what to say to you. You have the right to your opinion. I am not going to try to prove any of it to you with court documents or pictures or anything else, that would be silly, this is a forum, not a courtroom.

I never asked you to. I feel your story does a good job of proving itself unbelievable to me. 

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Max Wilder wrote: I'm very

Max Wilder wrote:

I'm very disturbed by some of the advice people are giving you here.

Please do not under any circumstances give up on your children. Picture them at 18 years old coming to you and asking "Why didn't you save us from those crazy people?" And that's if they are lucky enough not to become the same as the rest of your wife's family. Parental indoctrination is still the primary transmitter of religious insanity!

This looks like it will become a serious child custody battle, and the very first thing you should do is contact an attorney that specializes in father's rights. That way you can get real professional advice on what you need to do.

Be prepared for all the arguments that your wife will bring against you. She will probably claim you are an alcoholic, so stop drinking completely so that you can honestly tell the judge how long you have gone without drinking. Write down detailed accounts of any physical altercations you may have had, or any that she might claim were violent (even if they weren't).

Because of the prejudice against atheists, you will have to be prepared to demonstrate your moral character. For the sake of your children, clean up anything that may reflect poorly on your lifestyle. Religious zealots will assume you are lying, so anything you can do that will have verifiable proof is a plus. Keep your place clean and child-safe. No weapons, no booze.

I know you don't want to involve the authorities, so please talk to that lawyer so that you won't accidentally do something that she can call the cops on you for. You have to do everything by the book so that the courts won't eventually side with her because of some mistakes you made from ignorance of the law.

Please call someone right away. It may be that she ruined her case by stealing the children, and by taking the high road you could set yourself up for a strong victory.

Good luck, man.

Who said to give up on his kids? I didnt. I told him to keep his nose clean and obey the law whatever he does. He does them absolutly no good behind bars and will damage any credibility he might have if he ends up there.

What he can do is get a lawyer who makes sure that at a minimum they get letters from him. I'd suggest that any corrispondane with them be positive and only talk about his love for them and never adress any beef he may have with her.

Given enough time if they see him stay cool and her do nothing but bad mouth him they might start asking questions. That certainly happend in my sisters case. She had vertually no contact with them and they believed everything their grandparents told them about her but latter ended up hating their grandparents for lieing to them about their mother.

No one is saying he shouldnt try to have contact with them. No one is suggesting he give up on them. He at a minimum should pay his child support no matter what. In addition staying clean and out of trouble will insure better chances in the future to rectify the situation. But  he wont have any chance at all if he gives any court whatsoever a reason to say, "See you are proving our point".

If he wants to "get even" with her the best way he can do it is to live well and provide for those kids.

My entire point is that no matter what he does he needs to obey the law and keep himself out of trouble. He wont get any sympathy from me he ends up in jail and loses any chance of contact as a result.

He can work on rectifying the sitituation and he should. But it has to be done legaly and he cannot take the law into his own hands. If he does he loses, but more importantly his kids lose a father. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Max Wilder wrote: I'm very

Max Wilder wrote:

I'm very disturbed by some of the advice people are giving you here.

Please do not under any circumstances give up on your children. Picture them at 18 years old coming to you and asking "Why didn't you save us from those crazy people?" And that's if they are lucky enough not to become the same as the rest of your wife's family. Parental indoctrination is still the primary transmitter of religious insanity!

This looks like it will become a serious child custody battle, and the very first thing you should do is contact an attorney that specializes in father's rights. That way you can get real professional advice on what you need to do.

Be prepared for all the arguments that your wife will bring against you. She will probably claim you are an alcoholic, so stop drinking completely so that you can honestly tell the judge how long you have gone without drinking. Write down detailed accounts of any physical altercations you may have had, or any that she might claim were violent (even if they weren't).

Because of the prejudice against atheists, you will have to be prepared to demonstrate your moral character. For the sake of your children, clean up anything that may reflect poorly on your lifestyle. Religious zealots will assume you are lying, so anything you can do that will have verifiable proof is a plus. Keep your place clean and child-safe. No weapons, no booze.

I know you don't want to involve the authorities, so please talk to that lawyer so that you won't accidentally do something that she can call the cops on you for. You have to do everything by the book so that the courts won't eventually side with her because of some mistakes you made from ignorance of the law.

Please call someone right away. It may be that she ruined her case by stealing the children, and by taking the high road you could set yourself up for a strong victory.

Good luck, man.

 I'm just going to throw my two cents in here.  I'm very sorry about your situation but, imo, you should really follow this guy's advice.  He's really making a lot of sense.  Brian 37's threads are pretty on target as well.  Good luck

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Brian37, MaxWilder,

Brian37, MaxWilder, PariahJane--Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

Cassieopia--you are a trouble making troll and I shouldn't even bother telling you that. I wish there was an ignore user button.

My kids are three (daughter) and five (son).

I have found out that she didn't go far away, she is still in Alaska staying at a hotel. She has been calling but I refuse to talk to her, it drives her nuts, so she has been calling the  neighbors. I can't really think of anything to do, I don't want to talk to her, and our kids won't talk on the phone to anyone no matter how much they plead, I don't know why they are both like that.

Max Wilder, I agree with you and that is my approach to the situation, it's just a little more complicated than most people realize. Her brother and father are rich, and if it came down to a custody trial,  they could hire the best lawyer they could find, and I think lawyers who can get people off and win trials have, a lot of the time, more and better connections higher up in the legal system; they aren't necessarily the best lawyer. I am relatively poor, most of the money I have is tied up in toys (boat, PWC, motorcycles, etc) and I own my house in full, but it's not worth a lot, so I would be hard-pressed to afford any custody battle, I wouldn't want to risk it anyway. 

On the other hand, living with her anymore is out of the question too. I have a guest house that I was living in but it seems that it was just like living with her, she was always in there because the kids were always in there, and she is more afraid of me telling them that all of mom's fairytales about Jesus and God and the Bible aren't true than I am of her telling them in the first place. She already has them singing hymns and praying at night, sometimes my son will say stuff like, "Did God make the rainbow because he loves us?" and when he does say stuff like that you can see it on my wife's face how proud she is, whether it is pride in him or pride in herself I don't know.

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


Max Wilder
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Yeah, that's a tough

Yeah, that's a tough situation, but take what money you have and use it to learn the basics. Find out about whether it is legal for her to take them away without your consent. Find out whether you have a right to take them back to their home. Find out whether high-priced lawyers have better chances in custody battles, as opposed to criminal trials. There are a few lawyers who will work pro bono for causes they believe in, and you never know.

And I hate to say this but... suck it up and talk to her. Before she takes them further away, see if you can talk her into bringing them back.

And on another point, it may be time to give up the toys so that you can be a father to your children.

-----
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- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt


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Max wilder wrote  And on

Max wilder wrote 

And on another point, it may be time to give up the toys so that you can be a father to your children.

Ouch, that hurts. My kids love the toys more than I do. And they aren't necessarily expensive ones. My boat is more of a tool than anything, I live on the Yukon River and I can't imagine living here without a decent  boat.  I live ten miles upriver from town, so sometimes instead of driving to the store, I will float down and then motor back up. The motorcycle saves a ton on gas, its not like I am driving a new Harley around (its a 2001 Yamaha WR250). My point is tho, this isn't going to go to trial. I think she just likes driving me nuts. She might not consciously say to herself, "this will show him", but I do know that if I just ignore her it drives her crazy, she will start calling neighbors, one time I was working way up north drilling a water well for a mining company and I was mad at her, so I didn't call her for a week. Man, she just about lost it. She called the state troopers and somehow got the number of the mine owner's satellite phone # and got hold of me that way. 

It is very hard for me to not call her up, because I want to talk to the kids, but since the most I will get out of them on the phone is "Hi Dad, goodbye" or maybe a song if they are wound up from watching Spongebob or something, I have found it a little easier. I have a friend who is 56 years old and his wife gripes and nags at him like crazy too, tho she isn't a religious nut, and I have just come to the conclusion that once people start this type of behavior, there is very little you can do about it. I know that sounds like I am giving up, but I have been putting up with this for six years now.  

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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Im not sure talking to her

Im not sure talking to her is wise at this time. Based on the past couple days of posting and how emotional the posts have been I dont think he is capable of talking to her without losing it.

I'd seek out afordable lawyers. You might google "father's rights" advocates to see if you can find a pro bono lawyer.

But again, whatever you do dont blow up at anyone, keep your cool, stay out of trouble and talk to someone professional about your emotional state.

You have too much at stake to allow her to get to you and I dont think it is wise for you to engauge her at this point. You need time to calm down and learn how to remain calm. Your kids need you to keep a level head, even if she isnt.

 

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Heinous Berserker- I expect

Heinous Berserker- I expect you to have good reasons for making the claim that I am a trouble making troll.

So far the only reason you have is that I don't believe you.

Let's review. I told you in a polite way that I don't believe you and even aknowledged:

1.My trust issue, not yours.

2.I could be wrong and

3.If I am I wished you the best of luck.

Now let's look at a common behavior of trolls as we like to call them.

1.Makes an ad hominem attack without any cause or attack made against them.

2.Upset someone disagrees or doesn't buy what they are saying and makes immature comments about said person.

While I know you didn't have to, you should have at least investigated my history posting here before making such a claim.

By the way, this is exactly the behavior I would expect someone lying to conduct in when faced with someone calling them on it.

To anyone else buying this and might frown upon me not doing so my first post clearly indicates I meant no ill will. 

 

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Brian37 wrote: "Im not sure

Brian37 wrote:

"Im not sure talking to her is wise at this time. Based on the past couple days of posting and how emotional the posts have been I dont think he is capable of talking to her without losing it.

I'd seek out afordable lawyers. You might google "father's rights" advocates to see if you can find a pro bono lawyer.

But again, whatever you do dont blow up at anyone, keep your cool, stay out of trouble and talk to someone professional about your emotional state.

You have too much at stake to allow her to get to you and I dont think it is wise for you to engauge her at this point. You need time to calm down and learn how to remain calm. Your kids need you to keep a level head, even if she isnt."

 

I don't know what you are talking about. I am very capable of not losing it. If anything, I have a problem with not getting mad about things that I should rightly be furious about. If someone is taking advantage of your good nature and abusing you mentally and physically, filling your children full of lies and attempting to brainwash them, a person should "lose it". Just because I chose "Heinous Berzerker" as a screenname doesn't mean I am some crazy nut, it is something a religious nut called me one time as we were all sitting around partying at a cannery a very long time ago and it struck me as being very funny. The picture of me is from that same period at the cannery ten years ago.

 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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@ Cassiopeia: There is no

@ Cassiopeia:

There is no polite way of calling somebody a liar. It doesn't matter how many caveats you attach, it is an ad hominem attack and it is immature. Points 1 and 2 of your own trollish definition.

The mature and rational thing to do is to ask about specific points that don't make sense to you, not make blanket statements like "I don't believe you."

Please stop de-railing the topic.

-----
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- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt


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Max Wilder wrote:

Max Wilder wrote:

@ Cassiopeia:

There is no polite way of calling somebody a liar. It doesn't matter how many caveats you attach, it is an ad hominem attack and it is immature. Points 1 and 2 of your own trollish definition.

The mature and rational thing to do is to ask about specific points that don't make sense to you, not make blanket statements like "I don't believe you."

Please stop de-railing the topic.

I did not call him a liar. I said I don't believe him. If anything I could have made it more clear as to why, but I did later state his whole story is the reason why.

Not only this, but if you would remember my asking about problems I had with certain points would have resulted in nothing as he stated he wouldn't provide evidence.

I don't see this being any different than beleiving anything else without evidence.

And no where does it say I must be polite. This isn't kill'em with kindness. Even so I told him in the most polite way I know as evidenced by my first post.

And I am hardly derailing this post. I gave my thoughts on the situation as anyone else hear did and then responded as anyone esle here has when contested. I have also made no objections to anyone else buying his story.

As for me falling prey to my own points I beg to differ. He made a claim and I didn't believe it. I made no observation on his character resulting from something he didn't say or do.

Not only this, but he clearly had a chance to respond to my rebuttal of hs claim that I was a troll. He didn't and that's fine. You have no reason to believe I'd have responded to nothing. If anything I believe it to be evident your post itself has steered his and my exchange further than it otherwise would have gone.

That I would consider derailing. 

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Cassiopiea wrote: "And I am

Cassiopiea wrote:

"And I am hardly derailing this post. I gave my thoughts on the situation as anyone else hear did and then responded as anyone esle here has when contested. I have also made no objections to anyone else buying his story."

 

For the sake of argument, lets say that I did make this whole thing up. I don't have a wife, I don't have any kids, I don't have a motorcycle or a boat, hell, I don't even have a computer, I probably walked to the library after locking the storm cellar door behind me at my Grandmother's house, it is all just a hypothetical situation that I am trying to pass off because I am a sad, lonely geek desperately starved for attention.

If you approach this thread with the above in mind, you have still not made one constructive or helpful post. AND YOU ARE DERAILING THIS THREAD, for me at least, because as the bigger it gets the harder it is for me and anyone else with a dial-up connection to load. And I can guarantee you that no one here has as slow a connection as I have (26.4 kbps, I am almost embarrassed to type that).

So, please leave and go bother someone else. I am sure there is someone out there who appreciates your "history" on this forum of not quite a month and the fact that you have a Gold Membership. 

 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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I certainly never meant to

I certainly never meant to cause you discomfort with your dial-up problems.

Still you make unfounded attacks on me and just restate your claims. That's cool though. My points were made and I don't see either why this must continue.

It's a shame you've taken it so hard I disbelieve you and told you so. I asked you no questions for clarity and left no impression you needed to do anything to appease me. 

I thought it was rather polite of me not to pick apart your stories and make aware the parts I had trouble with.

And I assure everyone if I had known my not swallowing everything I'm told would have resulted in this name calling and turn of discussion because of it, then maybe I would have gone the impolite way to begin with.

As it stands though I will take your suggestion HB and walk away from this topic. Rest assured though it is by far because of lack of interest in being insulted for disagreeing then it is cause I feel you your insults against me are valid.(without reason actually)

Feel free to keep talking to people that believe you only, and hope you don't come across someone else here with an alarming bullshit detector screaming when reading your story. Then you might find yourself having to attack them with insults and no reason.

I bid you good luck if what you say is true. I simply don't think so. 

As a gesture of goodwill I promise only to respond if your story is proven. That way you may continue unhindered by my personal opinions.

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What I am wondering, is

What I am wondering, is there anyone out there who has any advice on convincing a religious fanatic, not necessarily my wife as I am tired of talking about my whole situation, but just fanatics in general, that their beliefs are wrong? In the small town I live in there are lots of "them". I have had people want to fight me (well, they got in my face and started raising their voice anyway, which is close) before because I told them I didn't believe in God and that I especially didn't believe in anything the Bible says.

My argument is usually along the lines of "If A, B, C, D, E, F, and G of a document are provably wrong and/or fabricated, why should you expect me to believe H, I, J, and K?" I don't read the Bible, I don't especially like arguing, but the last few years I have had to learn a few things simply because there are so many times when people say stuff like "Well, you better pray for them" or "The Bible says ..." and I don't know how to respond. If you say, "I don't read the Bible" then they tell you that you should. I simply don't think it is important enough to read.

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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I have no idea what

I have no idea what Casseopeia is talking about. I never insulted her in this thread, and I never wrote her privately either. I wasn't going to respond to her again at all until I read that last thing she wrote, and since she said "As a gesture of goodwill I promise only to respond if your story is proven. That way you may continue unhindered by my personal opinions" I am addressing this to the other readers of this thread.

On another thread, Cassiopeia wrote:

"I was raised to always question everything by my father. For the longest time I held the posistion of a deist. Until christmas of 2005 when I became sick with a rare condition known as RHS, or Ramsey-Hunt Syndrom.
From there I hoped beyond hope there was a personal God to hear me pray for healing through all of 2006. I attended church with my grandmother and prayed everyday in the shower.
Well my condition worsened as I developed shingles and then PHN, or Post-herpectic Neuralgia. After far too long of feeling ignored by a God I hoped existed I turned to the other side and began investigating the arguments for and against Gods.
Now here I am. Still ill, but because of Atheism teaching to care for myself and not depend on an imaginary God crutch, I have found the strength to diet, excersice and slowly work my way back into the working world and off Social Security.
Then I went and broke my leg... But all in all that's my story. Hope it didn't bore too much."

She probably wouldn't like it too much if I told her that I didn't believe her story or that I thought she was a hypochondriac. But I have no reason to, and I don't. I hope you get over all your ills, I can only imagine what it must be like. The worst things I have ever had are broken bones and carpal tunnel syndrome. 

 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


Cassiopeia
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Heinous Berzerker wrote:

Heinous Berzerker wrote:

I have no idea what Casseopeia is talking about. I never insulted her in this thread, and I never wrote her privately either. I wasn't going to respond to her again at all until I read that last thing she wrote, and since she said "As a gesture of goodwill I promise only to respond if your story is proven. That way you may continue unhindered by my personal opinions" I am addressing this to the other readers of this thread.

On another thread, Cassiopeia wrote:

"I was raised to always question everything by my father. For the longest time I held the posistion of a deist. Until christmas of 2005 when I became sick with a rare condition known as RHS, or Ramsey-Hunt Syndrom.
From there I hoped beyond hope there was a personal God to hear me pray for healing through all of 2006. I attended church with my grandmother and prayed everyday in the shower.
Well my condition worsened as I developed shingles and then PHN, or Post-herpectic Neuralgia. After far too long of feeling ignored by a God I hoped existed I turned to the other side and began investigating the arguments for and against Gods.
Now here I am. Still ill, but because of Atheism teaching to care for myself and not depend on an imaginary God crutch, I have found the strength to diet, excersice and slowly work my way back into the working world and off Social Security.
Then I went and broke my leg... But all in all that's my story. Hope it didn't bore too much."

She probably wouldn't like it too much if I told her that I didn't believe her story or that I thought she was a hypochondriac. But I have no reason to, and I don't. I hope you get over all your ills, I can only imagine what it must be like. The worst things I have ever had are broken bones and carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

I'm going to break my promise here. So sue me, but I can not believe you have claimed you haven't insulted me. You outright in this very thread called me a "trouble making troll." It's here for anyone to see. This does not bode well for those whom maybe didn't believe you.

I never claimed you contacted me personally and now posting a reply to a different topic from a different thread?

How is this not derailling this thread?

I would have ignored you like you say you did to me(after the insult) Taken advantage of a promise I made to jab at me again shows little integrity in my opinion.

Whatever breaking my promise means against my character I will take. Let me be the first to say I have broken my promise and I apologize.

For those whom may be a little familiar with me I appeal to them this broken promise will not severely effect my standing, whatever that may be, with you in a negative sense. Again I apologize.

Thank you for your kind words at the end of your post HB.

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AiiA wrote: Is the proverb

AiiA wrote:
Is the proverb "Blood is thicker than water" true?

Answer: No! It's bullshit!

Pay your child support.

Let it go.

And move on.

Unfortunately, I'm in a similar situation as the poster, but 8 years later. Even the a court said I can see my child, I'm not allowed to. I asked a lawyer to help me out because I thought it was in the best interest for the child not to be around drugs and irrational behavior, but multiple lawyers (I like to shop) gave me the same answer. Their answer was: "unless you can provide material evidence against the mother, you have a penis and you're atheist, that means you'll lose any case you bring upon her."

Just as you suggest, shut the hell up and pay (indentured servitude) and hope for the best. It's very sad and I hope things will change. My only comment is to keep on fighting.... unfortunately, you'll lose. Sorry for the defeatism. 


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  HB-Just i case you

 

HB-Just i case you haven't noticed before you reply here, I've sent you a PM in hopes of clearing things up and allowing this topic to refocus on whatever intention you had for it.

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I don't consider calling

I don't consider calling you a "trouble making troll" an insult. A troll is someone who is throwing out their "line", i.e. fishing, hoping someone will bite. In other words, a troll is someone who wants someone else to respond to their challenge or insult, etc. There is no doubt that is what you were doing, and I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Anyway, I am never going to prove any of this, so why are you still reading?

If I wanted to insult you, I would have said that you must have DADS (Delusional Ani DiFranco Syndrome) in addition to your other ailments, or pointed out that your lengthy posts were about as meaningful as Vanilla Ice song lyrics. Now please, go away like you promised you would until I prove my story to your satisfaction.

I honestly don't know why you would think I would bother making something like this up in the first place. The only glitch in my story that I can see is the part about the snake handler/cyanide drinker church in Tennessee. I think all those kooks are actually in Georgia, but that is my wife's story, not mine. I never asked her dad about his side of the story because we don't get along and I try to keep conversation with him at a minimum. Maybe the snake handler was on a tour of the US, I don't know.

 

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


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While I think some people

While I think some people here have given you some decent advice, I don't think we'll be able to really help you.  You must see a lawyer.  Exhaust all possibilities.  Right now you should be surfing the web for case law, looking through the phone book for divorce/custody lawyers or trying to find people who have been in your situation and find out why they won or lost.  Get information from everywhere and anywhere.  

Huh. Guess I tried to help after all.  Sorry 'bout that. Eye-wink 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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I hope the disagreement

I hope the disagreement that has been playing out in this thread has been resolved. 

Thank you.

 

 

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Susan wrote: I hope the

Susan wrote:

I hope the disagreement that has been playing out in this thread has been resolved.

Thank you.

 

 

I tries to resolve it with a PM I sent to HB. I even told him in this thread I sent it to him. He just choose to insult me further. It's time I took the high road. Anyone upset I've argued with this individual please note I at least didn't take it to the level of insults despite the multiple ones made on my person. Even if you think my disagrement was wrong in the first place.

Thank you, and again I apologize. 

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HB, I got your back on this

HB, I got your back on this one. Delusional is the right word.

As for advice about arguing with religious nuts... don't. You will never be able to change their minds. The best you can do, IMHO, is try to keep a smile on your face as you resist the urge to smack them. When you are surrounded, the best you can do is keep your head down. Like my mom taught me: when arguing is pointless, just smile and nod, then do what you want.

Honestly, I would move if I was surrounded by that type, but it sounds like you live in the type of place where you would have moved already if you didn't love it.

I hope it works out. 

-----
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt


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MaxWilder wrote: "Honestly,

MaxWilder wrote:

"Honestly, I would move if I was surrounded by that type, but it sounds like you live in the type of place where you would have moved already if you didn't love it."

 

That is just the thing, I really love the place where I live, I didn't move to Alaska for the people, although they are inescapeable. Moving to the town I live in was merely a compromise with my wife. I used to live deep in the wilderness, 85 miles from the nearest town or even road, but with young children, and the possibility of something going wrong, we agreed it was best to move somewhere that we would at least be able to get an emergency flight to somewhere with a hospital.

As far as the religious nuts go, it's not that I am surrounded, but I can name at least ten hardcore religious whackos in my small town of 120 or so, and three of the absolute worst have been run out, two of which I had a lot to do with. On another thread I mentioned a guy here in town that claimed he "met Jesus on the Seventymile" (the Seventymile is a river). This nut said that Jesus came floating through the willows towards him, and told him that he had a job for him. Then he floated back through the willows and disappeared. Well, this guy interpreted that as meaning that Jesus was going to return with the Sword of Gideon (I don't even care enough to look that up to see where he got that from) and that Jesus wanted him to kill all the false prophets in this town. He was actually making a death list, and if I remember correctly, there were about 30 names on it. After that night mine was more than likely added because I in no uncertain terms told him to get his crazy ass out of the house (I was housesitting for someone).

That guy would be almost comical if it weren't for the fact that a couple of years prior he had actually shot at two people with a rifle on a mountainside from a distance of maybe 300 or 400 yards and later told someone, "I just pointed the rifle their way and I said to myself, 'If God wants those sinners to die he will guide the bullets to them'". Before coming to Alaska this guy, Eugene Grant, had spent time in Huntsville State Prison for armed robbery (of a KFC for 23 bucks), and is in prison in Alaska right now for practicing dentistry without a license. In his defense, what he was actually doing was selling dentures to people that he made himself (he was using sheeps teeth). Truth is definitely stranger than fiction in this guys bizarre life.

There was another guy here who achieved some notoriety and was also a religious nut, Dennis Tucker. There are many internet sources for this guy. Claiming that his frostbite was the result of  a curse by a local preacher (and subsequently another religious nut) he went and shot up this guys plane with a rifle. While awaiting trial in Fairbanks, he shot someone's dog, and then when the police arrived, he shot and killed a police dog and had a brief shootout with the cops before surrendering.

But I don't have any contact with them or any of the current whackos in my town, I have already made it clear to them where I stand. I have the Yukon River 150 feet from my front door with beautiful mountains on the other side, and from my back door I can walk out to a lake that is maybe 80 feet away. None of my neighbors bother me too much, so it is pretty good.

"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th


Vastet
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That's rough. I hope you

That's rough. I hope you manage to work things out man.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.