I Want To Know What is Your Take On 9/11

SumTingWong
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I Want To Know What is Your Take On 9/11

I know this doesn't have anything to do with religion but, it does need some rational thinking. Out of curiosity I was just wondering what is your take on 9/11. Was the government behind this or was this a executed plan by the tali-ban. Your thoughts please.

 

 

P.S. I'm sorry if this has already been debated over. Please send the link if you have it. Thanks!


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Welcome to the forums,

Welcome to the forums, SumTingWong.

When you get a chance, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversations, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself. 

As far as I know, we haven't had a 9/11 conspiracy discussion.

My personal opinion is that it was religious extremists. I think that is evidenced by the plots that have been thwarted in other places such as London. Also, look at the guy (sorry, I forget his name) that had a bomb in his shoe. He was acting from his indoctrination from the Taliban.

Conspiracy theories abound after any huge traumatic event such as 9/11 and they rarely have any basis in truth.

Look at the conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination. None of them ever ended up holding water. I have no doubt that if there was a grain of truth to any of them, it would have eventually have come to light.

I wonder if the men that caused the Oklahoma City bombing hadn't been caught so quickly, what conspiracy theories might be around today.

 

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lucidfox13
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All those 9/11 conspiracies

All those 9/11 conspiracies are bogus.  I don't like a lot of the stuff our government is doing, but I would not think they would be evil enough to kill off their own people for their own selfish agenda.  They culprits were Islamic extremists, and that's it.

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The 9/11 conspiracy

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are all bogus.  At least all of the ones I've heard.

I love the people who think that the current presidency is the worst most incompetant group of people we've ever had running the country, while at the same time claiming that they pulled off the most advanced, and perfectly executed conspiracy of all time.

 

Most of the people here are general skeptics if you say "I believe that A exists, or that B happened" we simply reply with "Oh yea? Show me why." So far from what I've seen 9/11 conspiracies are on equal ground with the moon landing hoax, and the existence of big foot.  Simply because there is no evidence for any of them.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan


Andyy
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For whatever reason, people

For whatever reason, people tend to love conspiracies.  Whether its 9/11, JFK, no one landed on the moon, or the God of the universe killed himself and came back to life so we could move out of time to spend eternity in eternal paradise while most of the world ends up burning.

Back to the point...  http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html Popular mechanics did a step by step debunking of the main conspiracy theories.

I'm open the changing my mind though if some hard evidence was found, but I doubt that will happen. 


V1per41
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Andyy, your avatar scares me

Andyy, your avatar scares me


Andyy
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V1per41 wrote: Andyy, your

V1per41 wrote:
Andyy, your avatar scares me

It was down to Haggard, Dobson, or Fawell... who's the scariest? 


SumTingWong
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Can't we look in betweeen

Can't we look in betweeen the lines for an alternative answer? Isn't that what we do here? Gather all the evidence supplied and analyze it? And ultimately come up with a rational conclusion. If something doesn't fit then we gotta ask ourselves why. It's like telling you there is such a thinkg called god. (which I don't believe in btw) And in a rational conclusion without any original piece of hard evidence we can soundly say that there isn't one.

 Bottom line is despite the fact that the terrorists were the one flew the planes into the twin towers. I just want to know is how can two enormous buildings come at a free fall like that without any resistance? None what-so-ever. It is absolutely amazing to me that a well built tower can subdue to a plane crash like that. We can thank our engineers for that. It stood firm when the planes hit. Even though it was a big factor in weaking the frame. I believe there has to be some help involved other than just broken steel and fires to make the buildings come down so fast.

ex. The game jenga. what happens when we weaken the middle frame of the blocks it falls right? but you can still cleary see that the bottom is still intact. I know its on a much smaller scale but the principle is still the same.

  Yes I have read the Popular Mechanics article about the debunking of 911 conspiracists and the funny thing is there wasn't a single thing they said that made anysense about the free fall of the towers. The pancake theory is just rubbish.

 Call me crazy. It isn't like the goverment never did anything shady in the past. They might portray themselves as respectable characters and the do a damn good job of it too. But behind closed doors most of them are just money mongering slimeballs. Much like the churches we come to love so much haha.

I can come up with lots of events that the US were involved with that wasn't so righteous. Heck it even goes on to this day. So we should believe our media and goverment so blindedly as if we were to follow the bible the same way? I think not. So I urge everyone to be rational be logical and come up with a reasonable answer.  

 


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No.  Just...

No.  Just... no.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

Read this through first.  Then read it again. 

There is precisely one dodgy thing about 9/11 and that is the received phone calls from United 93.  However, worst case there is that the plane was shot down and the US don't want to admit it, not that the attack was planned by the government.

 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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What exactly are you

What exactly are you getting at? Are you suggesting that our government had something to do with the fall of the towers? I'm no architect, but I imagine that it would be pretty damn hard for those buildings not to collapse. 

I honestly don't know that much about any of the conspiracy theories that involve 9/11.  I don't think our government really did anything wrong though.  Perhaps they ignored warning signs, but I don't think it was intentional, which is what I think you're implying.

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Quote: For whatever reason,

Quote:
For whatever reason, people tend to love conspiracies.

There's a theory in semiotics that the reason why people tend to love conspiracies is the same reason why people are inclined to believe that there's a god. Any time people see a collection of events that just don't seem to make sense, they want to attribute the cause to a unifying intelligence. People see design in everything.

It's hard to accept that a government made up of people who are all more-or-less trying to do the right thing can produce results that make things worse.  It's easier to believe that the evil oil company executives or Skull and Bones (or whatever) are behind it all.

I was just re-reading the section in "The God Delusion" where Dawkins talks about how people have trouble believing that suicide bombers do what they do because they genuinely believe what they say they believe (that they'll go to heaven and get their 72 virgins or whatever).  Somehow it's easier to look for a conspiracy that stems from motives of greed or desire for personal power than to accept that an individual (Oswald) or small group (9/11 bombers) actually did it out of personal belief.

Then once you start looking for intention and design behind the events, of course you find it whether it's there or not.  Just like the fundies find the will of God in every snowflake. 

 Don't be paranoid; that's just what they want.

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Well, here's my answer,

Well, here's my answer, No!

I am not a big conspiracy theorist, I just can't buy into them. 


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The assumption that the US

The assumption that the US government deliberately orchestrated the events of 9/11 is ridiculous. But they did orchestrate them unintentionally. Take from that what you will.

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DewiMorgan
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I can accept the conspiracy

I can accept the conspiracy a very small amount, in that some parts of it were documented to be real. However, I believe that the US Gov't's only involvement was incompetence, not deliberate and malicious forethought.

Before it was castrated by the Bush administration and had an incompetent put at the head of it, FEMA made a list of the three largest risks facing the US: 1) a terrorist plane attack on the twin towers 2) New Orleans levees giving way 3) San Francisco earthquake.

FEMA, it seems, really knew its shit. Sorry, anyone in SF, but they're batting two for two right now, and you're next in line. Now would be a good time to check that your household insurance includes cover for Acts of God.

Apparently the government organisation had received tips that it was planned, but it was just one of a huge number of tips they get daily, and had no corroborating evidence.

So, they knew the plane attack was a risk. In fact, that day, they were doing a training simulation of that exact scenario. How unlikely is that? Not very, especially if the training simulation was announced publicly to warn all pilots: the terrorists would've picked that day specifically.

When the planes hit, they didn't, to people's surprise, knock down the towers. Lots of people managed to get evacuated. But the fires inside, of plane fuel, were heating up and softening the internal supports. Eventually, they gave way and the top part was no longer supported on the inside, though the outside metal framework was still intact. The weakened section permitted floors above to drop: funnelled by the steel reinforcing on the outside, they fell like bricks down a chimney, destroying the floors below, each floor added to the collapse increasing the mass of this concrete pile-driver.

Though the buildings were made to be plane-proof, they weren't made to withstand the large modern planes, and this failure mode (burning plane fuel around the central column) had not been modelled by the designers.

The terrorists and government were as surprised as anyone else when the first one fell.

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I'd believe many cynical

I'd believe many cynical things about this administration in general, but the truthers have never presented a convincing case using people with appropriate expertise, and the mainstream explanation seems quite reasonable. So no, until the truthers make a better case, I still don't agree with them.

It's only the fairy tales they believe.


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There are some odd things

There are some odd things about the events, but regardless of how involved or incompetent the government was they still used the events to scare the american public. Add all the other bullshit they put the nation through and the pissing on the constitution they should get whatever they would get if they did do 9/11.


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SumTingWong

SumTingWong wrote:
...

Bottom line is despite the fact that the terrorists were the one flew the planes into the twin towers. I just want to know is how can two enormous buildings come at a free fall like that without any resistance? None what-so-ever. It is absolutely amazing to me that a well built tower can subdue to a plane crash like that. We can thank our engineers for that. It stood firm when the planes hit. Even though it was a big factor in weaking the frame. I believe there has to be some help involved other than just broken steel and fires to make the buildings come down so fast.

...

 

What do yo umean free fall without any resistance?  In loose change they show that the building falls faster than freefall, which is where I assume you're getting this info from.  This has already been shown to be false as you can see debris that is falling faster than the building.  Therefore, there was resistence, mainly the floors below.  When you have the top 30 floors of a building fall onto a single floor below, almost nothing can stop that momentum and the floor below fails.  The "pancake model" makes complete sense.

Why do you think that there has to be some help involved other than a large section of the middle supports taken out and a fire hot enough to weaken the rest of the supports by more than 50%?  That sounds like more than enough damage to me to cause a building to colapse.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan


Technarch
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I do like the thermite

I do like the thermite theory, because thermite burns straight through metal at 5000 degrees.  The only problem is it would be bright as hell.  Some objections to the jet fuel burning theory are that fuel would only weaken steel about 50%, and that smoking molten metal is supposedly found at the base of the towers after the collapse, which jet fuel wouldn't be hot enough for (although the molten metal evidence isn't substantiated aside from people who think it's molten based on videos). 

 This site helps a lot with debunking, I'd suggest reading through all the entries:

http://www.911myths.com/ 


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this is my take. Yes there

this is my take. Yes there is a big conspiracy behind 9/11, and NO, the goverment isn't directly behind it.

the goverment, as in the guys who are running the white house didnt have anything to do with the attacks BUT, just think along with me for a second, remember the old Sherlock Holmes stories, for every murder, the first thing he would ask himself was, who would benefit from this? and now i ask you, who takes the most profit out of 9/11?

oil companies. firearms companies. and of course the israeli goverment as it gave them all the excuse they would ever need to kill off every last arab in palestain and reclaim their land.

the goverment was only a tool, in the hands of others, do you really think that some 20 year old arab kids could mastermind such huge orchestrated attacks? its impossible, they were only a front, they were used by the people behind the scene.

i think it's very narrownminded of you if you believe that osama bin laden has called the shots sitting in his cave somewhere in the mountain of afghanistan. open your eyes people, bin laden is a pupet.

these kind of operations take too many people to execute, it's too expensive, it's too involved for a few kids out of saudi deserts to handle.


Technarch
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Pretty common theory, though

Pretty common theory, though it overlaps with a lot of others.  The alternative is that people are making money off of something that just happened to occur due to Islamic extremism.


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Andyy wrote:For whatever

Andyy wrote:

For whatever reason, people tend to love conspiracies.

Psychologically speaking, I can offer three related motives - probably ones you've already considered:

1) Cognitive: They allow people to simplify a complex world. Enormous events can be whittled down to the intent of one person. To be blunt, conspiracies allow a person to feel smart, informed, etc.

2) Anxiety reduction: If 'bad things' are intentional, they are preventable.

3) Ego: It's one thing to be a victim, it's quite another to be tricked. People can tolerate the first to some degree... but being tricked is a blow to the ego. If you 'really know what happened' then you can lessen the blow to the ego.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

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Technarch wrote: Pretty

Technarch wrote:
Pretty common theory, though it overlaps with a lot of others.  The alternative is that people are making money off of something that just happened to occur due to Islamic extremism.

For all we know, it may have happened due to islamic extermism, but I just can't believe that such huge operations could have been carried out by some non-american kids out of desert with bin laden leading them from his cave.

and on the other side, you've got, the CIA, the NSA and musad with their multi million dollar budget and high tech stuff and decades of inteligence history.

the match up is like throwing a 5 year old in the ring with Mike Tyson.


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andrewgor wrote: Technarch

andrewgor wrote:
Technarch wrote:
Pretty common theory, though it overlaps with a lot of others.  The alternative is that people are making money off of something that just happened to occur due to Islamic extremism.

For all we know, it may have happened due to islamic extermism, but I just can't believe that such huge operations could have been carried out by some non-american kids out of desert with bin laden leading them from his cave.

and on the other side, you've got, the CIA, the NSA and musad with their multi million dollar budget and high tech stuff and decades of inteligence history.

the match up is like throwing a 5 year old in the ring with Mike Tyson.

I would call it a misconception that it would take extraordinary equipment and organizing to pull off the 9/11 attacks. I know I personally would have done a far more efficient job of it were I behind the attacks. 9/11 is what told me Bin Laden is an idiot.

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Technarch
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I just like this one for

I just like this one for some reason.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/tower2.htm 


andrewgor
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you guys heard the saying

you guys heard the saying "what could go wrong, will go wrong" ?

now imagine the thousand different things that could have gone wrong for the terrorists on 9/11 if we assume they were in fact some al qaida guys working on their own, and yet, nothing went wrong, everything worked out to their perfection, down to the last brick of the twin towers, how is that possible?


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Osama said he only planned

Osama said he only planned to damage the towers, but it went much better than expected


Susan
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andrewgor wrote: you guys

andrewgor wrote:
you guys heard the saying "what could go wrong, will go wrong" ? now imagine the thousand different things that could have gone wrong for the terrorists on 9/11 if we assume they were in fact some al qaida guys working on their own, and yet, nothing went wrong, everything worked out to their perfection, down to the last brick of the twin towers, how is that possible?

If I remember correctly, there were a couple of terrorists that weren't allowed to board a plane somewhere.

Also, it obviously didn't go perfectly because the passengers on Flight 93 didn't allow the plane to fly into a building.

I think you also dismiss Bin Laden's network and the resources he has available.  Some of his followers are technically savvy. 

I remember something about plans being emailed embedded behind (or within) pictures of artwork.  Again, if I remember correctly, there were layouts of the aircraft interior hidden in/inside a picture of the Mona Lisa. 

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The Popular Mechanics

The Popular Mechanics article is a great lesson on propaganda...

I haven't looked at the 9/11 conspiracy scene in a while but I'm fairly sure there are crazier people out there now than when I was looking at it (about a year ago).

 First, for those of you who support the pancake theory, NIST has tossed it out the window:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

"NIST’s findings do not support the 'pancake theory' of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel 'trusses' integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). "

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sund-flash.html

Lots of interesting quotes:

(pt2)WTC1: The building was hit between the 92nd and 99th floor.  Which essentially means that the top 25, or so, floors completely demolished the bottom 80 floors.  How is this possible?

(pt3)In reference to WTC2: "It's essentially like looking at a three or four legged stool and taking out one leg"  Taking out one leg of a stool does not result in the entire stool crumbling to the ground in a heap - with this analogy the top of the building should have fallen off the the bottom and crashed to the ground leaving the bottom in tact.  Okay, maybe he's poor at making analogies.  Watching building 2 collapse is rather perplexing to me - the top torques quite a bit and then suddenly the structure under it just seems to melt away.

(pt4) "Most of the jet fuel was burned in a matter of minutes, maybe 5 or 6 minutes, but certainly less than 10."  The rest of this clip is simply mind boggling - if fires are "moving from location to location every 20 minutes" how are they promoting the weakening of the steel to the point of weakening enough of them to make them all collapse simultaneously on initiation of collapse?

Pentagon:

http://perso.orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/cctv.html

http://www.thepentacon.net/pierpaolomurru/reportdod/site/eng_version/

I'm rather intrigued that buildings 5 & 6 didn't collapse on 9/11.  They had to be demolished.  You'll find buildings 5 & 6 pretty much between the twin towers and building 7.  Both building suffered massive fires and an extrodinary amount of damage (google image search it).  It should, however, be noted these were only 9 story buildings.

 http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6

"The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage. "

Where is it?  They have so many pictures of the pentagon and the hole in Ring C, why aren't there any pictures of the landing gear at Ring C?  It's a massive hole - you'd think we'd be able to easily spot the landing gear, why can't we?  Even then - if the plane hit the building at a DOWNWARD angle (like it should have) how was a hole created through 320 ft of building? 


Who knows what Osama did or didn't do, many people ask; "Who are you going to believe, the terrorists or the government?": http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/

These are a few of a great number of questions I have about 9/11, I wish they could all be answered.

  Is it possible it was terrorists?  Yes.  Is it possible it was a conspiracy?  I wouldn't rule that out yet either.

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Consperacy nuts crawl out

Consperacy nuts crawl out of the woodwork every time a big event happens.

Did America's goverment have anything to do with it? No. This type of attack was bound to happen sooner or later. Every administration since Carter knew the volititalty of the Middle East and attacks on American intrests have happened for the past 40 years. That was not even the first attack on U.S. soil. Every administration could be blamed for not doing more. But at what cost do we do more?

To credit Bush for no more attacks on that scale is false. WTC were attacked under Clinton, and he too had a lack of attacks on U.S. soil after that as well.

Whatever we do to stop these types of attacks should not come at the cost of creating a Big Brother state. 

I do think there have been alot of falures but it is not a consperiacy. I also think that America should stop trying to fight goasts. It seems we learned nothing from Nam in that conventional warfare is becoming a thing of the past. The new tactic is to blend in and boar out.

But in any case, it will happen again, no matter how much we want to stop it. The only way to do that is to become an isolated totalitarian state like North Korea. Part of freedom is living with insecurity. We should do as much as possible, but at the same time not create a state of fear where we turn everyone into a suspect.

There are too many soft targets even if a plane was never used again. Bridges, tunnels, movie theatres, malls, water supply, electric power plants, NFL stadiums, the list goes on.

For the same reason I dont worry about "terrorists" is the same reason I dont worry about getting robbed and murdered by a mugger. If someone really wants me dead, odds are they will have the drop on me long before I could reach something to protect myself anyway. So rather than live in fear, I simply live. 

Humans really dont behaive any differantly than most animals. A shark for example, will not attack a prey face to face. Why, because they want to use the element of suprise to insure the capture and to prevent damage to themselves.

A mugger useually cases a victim, and wouldnt rob them without some sort of suprise. A suicide bomber will also mask themselves to elliminate detection so that they can hit their target and act in such a way for the victims to have no time to react.

So, when I see consperacy nuts go on about UFOs, JFK or 9/11 it reminds me of the same irrational logic used to justify the magical claims of holy books.

Could goverment officials collaberated with Jews and Muslims to fund the attack? Please! Ok, since Jews, Muslims and Americans exist that makes it possible?

Incompatance on collecting information or a history of ignoring a blatant problem is not a consperacy. How much are we going to try to turn 9/11 into Lex Luthor vs Superman. 

A bunch of hatemongers who were indoctrinated to the point they thought themselves heros murdered a bunch of people. No different than Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudoph. If you want to believe that badly that murder will make you a hero, you probibly dont need a vast consperiacy to commit the act. Just a stupid superstition someone sold you. 

 

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Do you realise the very

Do you realise the very reason why 9/11 occured was because security agencies like the FBI, CIA and NSA were WITH HOLDING information from each other? The reason the extremeists were allowed to do what they could do was because we had weakened ourselves.

 

MANY of the terrorists are well educated and Osama is an heir of a fortune of millions of dollars. This isn't "some islamic guy in a cave" and saying such shows how unaware you are. 


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Welcome, Zanaver! When you

Welcome, Zanaver!

When you get a moment, we'd love it if you would hop over to General Conversations, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself. 

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Andyy wrote: V1per41

Andyy wrote:

V1per41 wrote:
Andyy, your avatar scares me

It was down to Haggard, Dobson, or Fawell... who's the scariest?


I think you picked right! Every time I see that avatar... Surprised


Technarch
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Brian37 wrote: No

Brian37 wrote:

No different than Timothy McVeigh

Plenty of conspiracy theories about him as well.   


The Patrician
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Technarch wrote: Brian37

Technarch wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

No different than Timothy McVeigh

Plenty of conspiracy theories about him as well.

 

And all of them rubbish too. 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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Your new avatar made me

Your new avatar made me chuckle, Patrician.

At least it's a bad post and not an evil post. 

tee hee

(Now, if you change it again, this particular comment is going to look extremely silly, isn't it?) 

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Good Idea

If we sent George over to read the Bible to the Taliban, America could become eternally victorious.


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Most of the 9/11

Most of the 9/11 conspiracies are essentially arguments from incredulity… “I don’t know how 19 people could pull off such an act to this degree, so surely they couldn't have.”

Don’t forget that this was an unprecedented event and there is no real comparison to determine that such an event is implausible.

That said… I do actually think there was a conspiracy – after the attack. I think the Bush administration tried to cover up incompetence, a lack of liaison between agencies. After all, if two people to agree to suppress information, then you have a conspiracy. It does happen, but the problem with conspiracies such with 9/11 is that they essentially collapse in on themselves as they need to revert to more conspiracies in order to support the original, and so on. E.g. they say the government conspired 9/11, then in order to support that they say that the mainstream media is working for the government or being run by them in order to broadcast propaganda. They say things like the plane the hit the Pentagon* actually landed and the passengers executed, then a missile used instead. Hello!!... if the government planned this, why hijack a plane, and then not use it!?

As for the conspiracy that I think did happen… an example would be that the CIA admitted that they were hearing ‘chatter’ that indicated an attack was being planned, but they did have any details, so they couldn’t do much. Meanwhile, the FBI had two of the hijackers under surveillance as they were known terrorists. They didn’t know what they were doing and didn’t have evidence against them for anything and the surveillance was eventually stopped. By the time the CIA and FBI put their heads together, close to the attack, a realised the potential link, the two men had already gone.

This was the conclusion of the BBC documentary “Conspiracy Files: 9/11”. You can watch it here: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-435692623160264857

Or just watch their conclusion here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymWIHivLMKA

*Side note… I am genuinely interested to know why the government haven’t released better footage of the Pentagon attack. You would expect that one of the most protected buildings in the world would be covered in cameras.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan


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Topher wrote: Most of the

Topher wrote:

Most of the 9/11 conspiracies are essentially arguments from incredulity… “I don’t know how 19 people could pull off such an act to this degree, so surely they couldn't have.”

 

There's more to it than just that. Yes, they boil down to arguments from incredulity, but I think they are rooted in fear. It's kind of scary to realize less than 20 people could do that. It doesn't sit well with most people, so they WANT it to involve more people and more insidious twists and turns - I mean, surely the people charged with protecting us MUST have been involved, because if they weren't, we'd have to admit how vulnerable we really are. The same sort of psychology can be found in say the JFK assassination.

In the end, none of the conspiracy cranks have much to offer, and I've frankly had enough go arounds on the details in other forums to last a life time.

Did our government have an active role? No. There is no reliable evidence for such. Could our government have hidden some details of the events after the fact in order to pass the buck and cover up their own egregious incompetence? Certainly, but that's not the sort of thing I'd call conspiracy - it's more or less spin.

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"*Side note… I am

"*Side note… I am genuinely interested to know why the government haven’t released better footage of the Pentagon attack. You would expect that one of the most protected buildings in the world would be covered in cameras." - Topher

I agree, which is why I would say there is a conspiracy regarding 9/11. Withholding multiple video angles of the pentagon being hit, while releasing a whopping 5 frames to the public.  Keeping information from people is the most essential step of a conspiracy, and they have kept the information locked up releasing 'edited' versions (what the public is allowed to see) while keeping the critical information to themselves.

The propoganda machine is strong, those who own the media, make the 'truth'.

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."--Stephen F. Roberts


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“A US Overthrown & Attacked By ‘God’s Own Party’ [GOP]”

Perhaps the ArkansAss GOP Chairman gives a big clue to who was behind 911 in: We need more 'attacks on US soil' so people appreciate Bush

I like the term 'coincidence theories' rather than conspiracy theories. It's the 'coincidences' beyond the realm of 'random' that makes so many of the conspiracy theories sound so much more feasible compared to the 'official' fairytales dressed up as truth coming from our Gov't.

Personally I don't believe any of the Feds official 'truths' about a lone gunman in the RFK, JFK or MLK assassinations. For example, according to an actual jury verdict on December 8,1999, in the wrongful death lawsuit of the King family versus Loyd Jowers, “Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated by a conspiracy that included agencies of the US government.”“The Death Of Martin Luther King” at WhatReallyHappened.com]. Specifically, Hoover’s FBI COINTELPRO program “that with the full knowledge and blessing of the political leadership, destroyed the leadership of the civil rights movement, intentionally, covertly, and with malice of forethought” [

One can take skepticism too far though like I'm seen 'some' in liberal blogs in being so skeptical, they don't believe global warming is a fact despite conclusive scientific evidence to the contrary - Most of them don't seem to understand how global warming can cause an ice age from ice caps melting into ocean streams..

Many might argue facts showing Bush-GOP complicity in the 9-11 attacks to be one of the major events of the 21st century that had turned a US democratic republic into what I call the new ‘Former USA’. However, it was the end results of the anthrax-aided Patriot Act that became far more harmful to our freedoms than the multitude of suspicious facts surrounding the 9-11 attacks implicating the illegal Bush-GOP regime.

Government by Anthrax by Richard J. Ochs, June 9, 2002 - read the article for 'coincidences' far beyond the realm of random for any rational skeptic to believe anyone else but the Feds or those on their payroll could of been behind the passing of the anthrax aided misnamed 'Patriot Act'. “The number of unlikely ‘coincidences’ associated with the anthrax attacks on the media and Congress makes it almost impossible to believe that they were random.” This of course is not proof.

“The number of unlikely ‘coincidences’ associated with the anthrax attacks on the media and Congress makes it almost impossible to believe that they were random. The simultaneous debate of Bush’s Patriot Bill in Congress points to the existence of a cabal of domestic conspirators which succeeded in terrorizing the body politic to influence legislation.

The glaring coincidence of the anthrax attacks with the passage of the Patriot Act can only be ignored as an elephant is ignored at a tea party. It is believable that this coincidence was overlooked in the fall of 2001 due to all the confusion, including letters to other places. In historical hindsight, the connection is obvious. It can be ignored now only as Germans ignored the death camps. The brazenness of the crime was unbelievable. Moreover, to admit the crime’s existence requires a courageous response. Timid souls may be tempted to stick their heads in the sand rather than do what is required to expose and root out criminals in high places, especially in time of war. The obvious response would be a Congressional investigation with no holds barred, even if it goes all the way to the top. The war for democracy must start at home.”

Without getting too involved with ‘Gestalt Philosophy’ here, the ‘Gestalt Quality’ for the documented 1990s Master Plans of the GOP criminals in the the White House since the start of the 21st century and 4 specific documented events in 4 years that followed reveal an intrinsic nature to them as a whole rather than just looking at their individual elements. Together they provide us a pattern of behavior from them that yields something far greater than the sum of their parts.

The overt GOP Master plans of the 1990s together with 4 major events in the first 4 years of the 21st century points directly to a sinister, successful GOP covert Master plan to overthrow the US democratic republic, and terrorize its citizens into submission by supporting this ‘Master Plan’ that utilizes a pre-emptive, 1st strike war doctrine to achieve its goals.

You can read my take on 911, 2000 and 2004 'elections', the anthrax attacks and the Hitlerian GOP Master Plans of the last decade in the 20th century here on:

“A US Overthrown & Attacked By ‘God’s Own Party’ [GOP]”

If there was a God, Man wouldn't have had to invent him [reversing Voltaire's famous quote].


BenfromCanada
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Here's one 9/11 theory

Here's one 9/11 theory debunking site that you guys haven't pointed out

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

 

Also

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

and

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

for some humourous takes on conspiracy theories 

Personally...I think that the government allowed it to happen, knew it was going to happen, but didn't plan it, and didn't stop it, or try to.


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Topher wrote: This was the

Topher wrote:
This was the conclusion of the BBC documentary “Conspiracy Files: 9/11”. You can watch it here: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-435692623160264857

 

 

Apparently this is a fake version of the documentary. It has been edited by 9/11 conspiracy theorists in an attempt to try discredit the BBC journalism. Clearly they cant rationally refute it, so they have to use underhand tactics.

 

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan