Homosexuality: Why we should get to the SOURCE of the hate - RELIGION

Lynette1977
Lynette1977's picture
Posts: 126
Joined: 2007-01-06
User is offlineOffline
Homosexuality: Why we should get to the SOURCE of the hate - RELIGION

So if there's one thing that I've noticed in the gay community is that a majority of them are of faith. Why they remain a part of any religion that advocates their death is beyond me. Many in the community head straight for clergy to back them up when they want to try to win a fight. (Here in Indiana the House committee voted NOT to hold a vote on a gay marriage ban that not only banned it but also "any legal incidences of..." which would also effect straight couples. The faithers are having a fit. Eli Lilly and several other huge corps said they didn't want this amendment.)

Well...on a list I'm on here people are talking about Mitt Romney switching from a pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun liberal to a anti-choice, anti-gay, pro-gun nut. I've about had it with their ignoring the real issue at hand here so I decided to send this letter. I'm awaiting the hate mail!

-----

Mitt Romney. Whenever I say this name my face turns red and I want to spit fire. During the issue of "gay" marriage in Massachusetts he was on television during a hearing and someone asked him if he knew that the Supreme Court found enough evidence to show that gays should have the same right to marry and it was fundamentally unconstitutional to keep them out of the mix...why would he dare want to enact a law that is wholly unconstitutional? He sat there mumbling like an idiot and it was at that moment I realized just how dangerous people like him really are. Unconstitutional or not...if that's what they want then give it to them or else be prepared to constantly defend yourself against their venom.

All of those things that people think he stands for now, anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-gun blah blah blah...it was only because of his recent brainwashing...er...religion... that he "claims" he no longer supports any of these. Someone who was once considered one of the most gay friendly people does an about face and does everything to bash the very things he used to stand for has ONE cause and one cause only and I think Romney is a PRIME example of this-religion.

On Abortion Romney is quoted as saying: 'I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I have since the time that my mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a US Senate candidate. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.'

On the Abortion Pill: 'Do you support efforts to increase access to emergency con-traception?' "Yes," he replied.

On Gay Rights: 'as we seek to establish full equality for America's gay and lesbian citizens, I will provide more effective leadership than my opponent.' As well, he handed out literature at gay pride events saying, 'Mitt and Kerry [running mate Kerry Healey] wish you a great Pride weekend! All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual preference.'

What's interesting is that this organization in Massachusetts working on an extremely anti-gay platform (this is their main issue) actually points all of this out. See http://www.massresistance.org/ and click on "The Mitt Romney Deception." Romney's newfound gay-hating, gun-toting, pro-life tactics are a complete political farce...and I let the gay-bashers do the digging for me to prove that.

What's interesting is that Romney's new book attempts to swing Christians his way. If they actually knew what Mormons believed, would they think otherwise? Here are just a few tidbits found on What is Mormonism.com

The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are wrong; ALL their creeds are an abomination in the sight of God; and all their teachers are corrupt. Mormonism teaches there is no salvation outside the Mormon Church and no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. Mormons are taught to doubt the reliability of the Bible and their leaders have consistently attacked its accuracy. A basic tenant in Mormonism today is that Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan. The Book of Mormon says of the Bible, "The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil." Mormons are taught to "shake hands" with a messenger to determine if he is from God or if he is the devil. Joseph Smith taught the moon was inhabited by people who dressed like Quakers and lived to be about 1000 years old. Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary.

My point is that Christians are DEFENDING a guy whose faith is all but blasphemous against their deity but they're only getting behind him because he's a gay bashing, pro-life, gun-toting convert. They think that because now he's subscribing to their extremist views that he's a good guy. One reader comment to his book, "Differing faiths can help each other when it is called for." Note how so many will accept someone of a religion that next to spits in the face of the man they worship just because he hates and loves the same things they do. Is it only blasphemous if you're not a gay basher?

I think the whole issue here is that religion provides a shield of protection around anti-gay sentiment and while I realize that people of faith in the liberal spectrum are helping in the fight, I also think that it's rather naive to purposefully ignore the role that religion provides in this all. It fuels the fire in a person just looking for a reason to project their anger. Moreover, do the passive faithful in our support also provide their shelter when they do little to educate others in the same respect for fear of how it will make them look? The "love the sinner, hate the sin" argument does absolutely nothing for our case. I think it's an issue that gets ignored far too often and isn't really mentioned b/c you run the risk of losing the support of those of faith who do support you when so few will. Do you address the individuals making the attacks and remain on the defensive end all of the time or do you proactively address the source of the problem? There's never an easy answer here but I think it's worth at least paying a little more attention to. Without religion fueling the fire of anti-gay hatred where would equal rights be? Personally, I don't think we'd even be HAVING this discussion if that were the case. Despite popular claims, studies show that the number of non-theistic believers in the US has doubled in past 10 years and I think that's one of the main reasons we're seeing this slow increase in a move toward equal rights. Studies also show that countries with the least religion typically do better overall so I think this only adds to our case. Likewise, other studies show that religion increases violent behavior and has a negative effect on the crime rate. Again, something we should pay more attention to.

On another note, I was listening to NPR this morning and I heard (I believe it was Pat Bauer, leader of the Indiana Democratic House) say that the gay issue turned into a heterosexual issue where domestic violence victims may be at risk. Is this how they see this issue? When it affects the heterosexuals then it's time to pay attention to who the law is affecting? It's okay if domestic violence happens within the GLBT community and they aren't protected but let's step up when it affects our fellow straight people? Even to those who say they didn't want the law they may have ONLY said no for the sole factor that it affects straights, not just gays. That right there said a lot to me.

Lynette

-----------------------------------------------

Jamie Raskin to Senator Nancy Jacobs
"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

Flemming Rose
“When theists say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission…”

 

Flemming Rose: “When [christians] say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission….”


razorphreak
Theist
razorphreak's picture
Posts: 901
Joined: 2007-02-05
User is offlineOffline
pariahjane, I understand

pariahjane,

I understand what you are saying here.  The bible, specifically the OT verses, especially the one from Leviticus, give the distinct impression of harshness and calling it justice.  Mind you I'm not going to make mistakes concerning what has been doing because in our generation, there is no excuse for violence.  Go back 3000+ years ago however and it's a different story.  Fast forward to when Jesus lived and his "love your enemy" doctrines were radical and many didn't let the older laws and ways go.  Today, it's worse because you have people misunderstanding where they stand and following the crowd without learning it themselves.

As a Christian, the scripture that means the most for me is the New Testament.  The NT are the words and teachings of Jesus and those he influenced.  In those letters and books, it needed to be cleared up concerning hate and that is why in Romans its very specific about homosexuality in chapter one.  In my opinion, and to the opinion of other Christians who have written about this that violence is not what should be done nor should it continue.  (I was reading even Pat Robertson was quoted as saying, "We abhor violence against homosexuals. We would counsel strongly in relation to homosexuality that you could hold your religious beliefs without beating people up and being violent." 1)

The bible in the NT does not teach that you should be violent against anyone.  Jesus did not love sin but showed love to the sinner.  The same can and should be done by all Christians to any individual on this planet.  It's easy when they are actually thinking of God's will instead of their own...but until that happens unfortunately we will see more violence and, as it's happened here on this thread, more animosity.

1. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chur1.htm#bash 

What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason. - Voltaire


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
I'll have to look up Romans

I'll have to look up Romans when I get home.  I am not as familiar with the Bible as many of you are, but am trying to change that. 

I think I understand what you're trying to convey.  This is sort of a should have/could have issue.  You're saying christians should act a certain way but many of them do not.  Many of them still use the Bible as their reasoning for disliking gays and possibly using violence against them.  Please don't say that these people are not true Christians; they read the bible, go to church and believe in the same god and Jesus that you do.  

I would venture to say the marjority of Americans are Christian of some sort.  Gay marriage is a hot debate.  Those people will vote against gay marriage (or at least, most of them will).  Do you think that's fair?  Do you think that one group of people have the right to withold another person's right based on their belief? 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


Susan
Susan's picture
Posts: 3561
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
I can appreciate Cory's

I can appreciate Cory's post.  I also appreciate that Cory and Razor have been respectful in their posts.

However, this thread is meant for Freethinkers only.  Until now, this hasn't been enforced.

We are starting to enforce this rule.  Please note what is posted on the forum/thread entrance:

Freethinking Anonymous
A haven for those who are without a belief in god, to discuss and the theorize, think freely, and debate any issue. No taboo issue in here. NO THEISTS ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. THEIST POSTS WILL BE DESTROYED.

Any further posts from theists in this thread will be deleted without warning. 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.


MisterDax
Posts: 66
Joined: 2007-01-25
User is offlineOffline
razorphreak wrote: I'm not

razorphreak wrote:
I'm not perfect and I've never claimed to be.  As my previous post shows, I screw up just the same as every person on this planet when emotion and frustration get the better of you.  I would hope that doesn't make me a bad person...just human. To be Christian means to understand the message in full not in pieces and when only pieces are used to justify hatred, it's safe to say they are wrong.

But you don't understand the message of the Bible in full. No one does. And by the way, saying that people who do not interpret the Bible like you are wrong is saying that you got it right. I posted the first half of your text, because you made the old theist trick: First you try to appear to be humble and then you throw something as arrogant like saying "people who I disagree with are wrong".

I know that we have deviated from the original topic, but you are making lots of mistakes. 


razorphreak
Theist
razorphreak's picture
Posts: 901
Joined: 2007-02-05
User is offlineOffline
I'm hoping this won't get

[MOD EDIT - Theist posting in incorrect forum]


Roisin Dubh
Roisin Dubh's picture
Posts: 428
Joined: 2007-02-11
User is offlineOffline
Since this thread has

Since this thread has obviously taken on an Atheist vs Theist direction, would it not make sense to move it to the A v T board? 

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


Susan
Susan's picture
Posts: 3561
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
I didn't want to move the

I didn't want to move the entire thread due to the original content.

I'm hoping deludedgod will start a new thread in the appropriate place and move the affected posts. 

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.