I'm a Christian. Convince me to become an athiest.
Posted on: March 14, 2007 - 9:35pm
Offline
I'm a Christian. Convince me to become an athiest.
I'm listening...
- Login to post comments
Navigation
The Rational Response Squad is a group of atheist activists who impact society by changing the way we view god belief. This site is a haven for those who are pushing back against the norm, and a place for believers of gods to have their beliefs exposed as false should they want to try their hand at confronting us.
Buy any item on AMAZON, and we'll use the small commission to help improve critical thinking. Buy a Laptop -- Apple
Offline Copyright Rational Response Squad 2006-2021.
Shaun--
One big big thing I forgot. Now that I am a Christian, I can recgonize evil, whereas before, I had no clue. This as cleared up A LOT of confusion for me when it comes to processing the world. This was HUGE for me! Evil acts and reacts predictably, so I can watch for it and guard myself against it. I'm much better off now, realizing there is truly is a devil, than before, when I thought there was no such thing... Now I know how to protect myself from his whims. Before, I could have been his puppet (in fact, I'm sure I was) and not known it.
This is the main reason why I feel content that I am on the right path as a Christian, as opposed to other religions, because I defy you to present a clearer picture of the nature of evil than is presented in the New Testament.
Constantly thinking, over-analyzing is a sign of low serotonin.
Negative emotions and thoughts deplete serotonin.
Exercise and meditation release beta endorphin.
So, yes, our thoughts and actions do matter, biochemically. Another reason why I'm sticking with my chosen faith...I find I'm healthier because of it.
And, if religion was similar to addiction, why are there so many religious people addicted to alcohol, food, and other things. Why don't they just go to church to get their fix?
Some do. I have a cousin who was a very troubled young man. He was into drugs and who-knows-what. He has a very addictive personality. He eventually found a young woman who was very strongly Christian. Apostolic, actually. He converted, and became very religious. In his case, it helped him get off drugs and other negative behavior. As far as I know, his religious beliefs were not stuffed down other's throats, be we live cross-country from each other, so I could be wrong. For him, at least for awhile, his religion was a healthier addiction than his previous ones. Unfortunately, I recently heard that he's engaged in some other unhealthy behaviors, which are also addictive. They're his problems, and I'm not going to write them here, but let's suffice to say that they're quite destructive and have gotten him in trouble.
Karen and her hounds
creating art ~ creating a new life
So, in other words, you feel that there is a biological need for religion? It's an interesting question, but it does nothing to prove the validity of those religions as any more than coping mechanisms. So, religion placates your need to understand? That's sad.
So, in coming here, and challenging the atheists to de-convert you, you are asking us to let you keep your delusions or harm you health. First, don't do anything that will cause any harm to you, that's your responsibility. Second, if you are not willing or able to challenge your religions seriously, there's not much to be gained here for you.
You've just said yourself essentially that religion is like an addiction. It fulfills a chemical need of your brain. I imagine that alcoholics don't go to church for their 'fix' because they don't serve (much) alcohol in church.
What I find amazing is that all these things you've mentioned here are totally pragmatic, and have no relation to truth. Faith is just an artificial boundary at which you stop thinking, which you use to prevent overanalyzing. Too bad it also prevents adequate analysis.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
I understand that thiests don't see the whole "hell" thing as any kind of threat, that it's god giving you an opportunity for you to let him help. The fact is that if it was seen as a threat, you probably wouldn't believe. However if you were to take god/Jesus out of the picture, I think you would feel quite threatened. You are born inherently destined for hell, and if you don't follow these specific guidelines then you will go to hell. It's been made quite clear that god judges, and when you die god will judge to you decide whether you're going to heaven or hell. You can rationalize this any way you want to make it seem like this is the natural state of affairs and that god is giving you some opportunity to change this destiny, but it's really only that: rationalization. Perhaps it would have some basis if the whole "hell" thing was a predominant belief before christianity came around to tell you it was, that you're inherently bad, impure, whatever, and that the bible offers a way out of this pre-determined predicament. Cut the crap and it's a thinly veiled threat - join us or suffer the consequences, you're one of "us" or one of "them". I'm reminded of mobster movies where the person being threated is assured that it's not in fact a threat, it's a warning. The mobster just wants to help you avoid this inevitable doom that you brought on yourself through your own choice of actions!
As for all the other things you state, both to me and Shaun, all the benefits of religion, you do not, in any way, need god for those things. These kind of existential questions and life lessons are things that everyone faces at some point and must resolve. If you're stating that these things are only possible with god, then I would ask you why non-christian philosophies, such as buddhism, are able to do the same things in a way far more evident to an impartial observer, than any christian? As for things like being calmer, I would submit that a good part of that is simple maturity, but your inability to retain composure in this thread alone speaks little of your superior skills in these matters. On the other hand, buddhists that engage in meditiation have and do change the way their brains work on a bio-chemical level, ie they can scientifically prove that it does have some effects.
The simple fact is that you really do not need god for these things. You may have personally needed outside sources to point things out for you, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way. I and many other athiests that I know have been and are quite capable of coming to the same conclusions without necessitating any god or book, while the majority of thiests I encounter find themselves tortured by the same things until very late in life, if they ever resolve them at all - even though many will repeat the same words, just without evident understanding of them in any real way (they know them, but don't understand them).
Perhaps they're just not good enough at silencing that pesky part of the brain responsible for abstract thought that makes us distinctly human.
I don't consider myself buddhist in any way, but I do glean some inspiration from some of it's precepts and ways of meditation. One of the main things is not confusing the perception of something with the actual thing. I think that if you were to replace "god" with your own unconscious in your responses to Shaun, that it would make even more sense.
The fact is that I could tell your story in reverse; that I was torn and confused when I once thought there might be a god, and that it wasn't until after I looked at the evidence (for god and christianity) and found it to lack any substance that I was able to resolve those kinds of issues. Due to some prior circumstances I came to resolve many things very quickly, extending that into some things that some people never resolve in their lifetime. The fact is, however, that I feel it would be highly intellectually dishonest to attribute this ability to any external entities, including a god. It would be intellectually dishonest because it's entirely subjective and there's no way to prove or disprove it. In this case it would be your word against mine - you say god helped you, I say that disregarding any notion of god helped me. Neither could be proven in any real way, but to say that I did it on my own answers many more questions. If I were inclined to spell them out (which I'm not), then it could even answer questions in a way that could potentially allow others access to the same experience without conditions and without telling people that not doing so could spell their own doom. I think that if you were willing and able to view the situation objectively, it would be obvious which one is more reasonable and honest.
I am interested in learning to meditate for this reason. The Christian religion did a complete mind-fuck on me. I just ordered a couple of books on meditation. There are altered states of consciousness and I want to be able to achieve them without the boogeyman in the sky.
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I wrote all of that and the point was missed.
Why throw pearls to swine...
I don't mean to belittle, but you, sugarfree, completely missed my point.
Shaun
I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.
Constantly thinking, over-analyzing is a sign of low serotonin.
Negative emotions and thoughts deplete serotonin.
Exercise and meditation release beta endorphin.
That would not be good for me I suppose. I spend far too much time thinking and overanalzying. I was never religious, but arguing against religion has always been my passion. Long nights have I been kept up wondering about God and the universe. From a young age I was well-versed in molecular biology, philosophy, logic, the history of religion and sociology. I studied molecular biology to defeat creationists. I read On the Genealogy of Morals, as well as works by Marcus Aurielus and Immanuel Kant. I became versed in sociology and religious anthropology, I studied civilizations that had developed extremely successfully with no religion that any Abrahamic follower would recognize.
In short, I think way too fucking much. But that's just me
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
And you missed mine.
Here's the underlying truth behind all your "claims" to be openminded on this topic-- you can't handle not having a happy ending. You're really not openminded on this at all, because you knew that atheism does not A) Offer any ideas as to what happens when you die, and B) sell you a bill of goods regarding some paternal uber-being that you can please and who you think loves you.
Atheism, through logical discourse, points out the very real possibility that when you die, you die. No afterlife, no reincarnation, etc. It also supports the idea that you are, essentially, alone in the world. There is no father figure keeping watch over you, no heavenly psychologist that you can "talk" to when the unfairness of life grips you just a bit tighter than normal.
We dont claim to have the complete, airtight sets of proof for these concepts, and because you can see the smallest points of light shining through the gaps in the chain of evidence we have, you stare at them until your eyes start seeing shapes and you're blissfully distracted.
Stop claiming that you're open to anything other than proof that you spend eternity in Andromeda after you pass on, or that there's some alien life out there that is watching your every move. The truth, as we know it thus far, is something you do not want to deal with. It's not necessarily a happy truth, and the answers we do have often just raise more questions. Sure, it can get frustrating, or depressing, or confusing at times, and if putting your blinders on and forging ahead makes it easier for you, then have at it. But call a spade a spade, and admit your conscious choice to remain in the dark. You've chosen the comfortable over the falsifiable, and nothing you've posted here proves differently.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
The first step is admitting you have a problem.
I'm sorry, you've just described how religion fills a chemical need of your brain. Not all brains have this chemical need, so this is obviously abnormal. If that isn't addiction, I don't know what is.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
Okay, I admit, I have become addicted to the conflict on this website. It is giving me an endorphin rush, arguing with you all, which is in turn causing BE crashes... Unhealthy.
No, no. Keep using science, I think that's great. But, you should be willing to follow it where it leads. You've described how you have a chemical dependency on religion. Addicts often have a hard time admitting they are addicted. They can't see how their addiction is clouding their minds. But we're here to help with that.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
Indeed.
I just lost a friend of many years because she couldn't stand the one time I came out and said that Christianity has been disproven. No, she has to have her happy ending and believe that she will see her dead brother again in heaven.
The sad fact is none of us are going to go through life unscathed. What makes it even sadder is some people cannot accept this fact, so instead of facing life as it is they create a fiction and insulate themselves from anyone who would question that fiction.
I told my friend I would try very hard not to bring up my atheism again, that we could work something out. But it wasn't good enough for her. So, she rejects a real person of flesh and blood (on the Internet, yes, but of flesh and blood) for an invisible sky-daddy who won't tell her anything she doesn't want to hear.
I'm still mulling this over and remembering the many times my Christian friends either stabbed me in the back or told me to get lost because they couldn't handle what I represent.
Did I ever screw up? Hell, yes. The difference is I was willing to work with the Christians to make sure the same thing didn't happen again. They, on the other hand, would accept no blame because their world view wouldn't allow it. Proselytizing is A-OK by them, even if they've promised not to do it. Why? Because it's god's will and in the face of god's will, human promises be damned.
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Regardless, I can understand that people who become fearful because of religion, or who constantly think God is waiting for an excuse to send them to hell...I can see how that would be bad for the brain chemicals. I can also see that some of you on this site probably found yourself in that predicament, and finally decided to give up on religion because of it. I am in no way denying that religion was a negative force in your life at some point. That makes sense to me. But, this is why I have emphasized in an earlier post that it is important to find a good teacher, pastor, or whatever. And it is extremely important to ask questions, stay engaged, don't allow yourself to be force-fed...also, don't just go thru the motions and "wait" to be enlightened, but to take responsibility for your own spiritual growth...
Regardless, I can understand that people who become fearful because of religion, or who constantly think God is waiting for an excuse to send them to hell...
A quick question because I am unfamiliar with living in a deeply religious nation: Where you live how many Christians are exclusivist. (Ie how many believe that "Jesus said I am the way and the truth and you must believe it or you will go to hell".
Where I live, none of the Christians believe that. They would be considered extreme. People here, if religious, are pluralist. I think they don't even believe in hell. I just returned from Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. Vietnam is a communism nation. It hs 56 ethnic groups. Atheists, Catholics, Buddhists and Muslims live in total peace. (Those four are the largest in Vietnam, Catholics due the the French Jesuits that came in 1663). There is none of this Western or Muslim religious fervor tolerated over here. Religion does not step on science, and atheists have respect for the religious. No one has HTT syndrome or STT syndrome.
I was just wondering if you could shed light for me on the situtation in the USA, because I am appalled when I hear theists on this site say "you will burn in hell" or nonsense as such.
I can also see that some of you on this site probably found yourself in that predicament, and finally decided to give up on religion because of it.
Or was never raised religious. I was raised in a very enlightened atheist Jewish family. It is interesting that Judaism, which out of the three monotheistic religions has the goriest holy book, is the most civilized, intelligent and advanced race of men the world has ever produced.
I am in no way denying that religion was a negative force in your life at some point.
It wasn't. I am just not fond of it's overall effect on society. Especially monotheism. I am quite fond of some other religions, even if I think they are bizarre, but Abrahamic faith is the only religious subset that has produced vast amounts of extremism.
But, this is why I have emphasized in an earlier post that it is important to find a good teacher, pastor, or whatever.
There are no pastors here that I know of. Because I am Jewish, I sometimes debate with the rabbi. He is a very intelligent, well educated man.
And it is extremely important to ask questions, stay engaged, don't allow yourself to be force-fed...also, don't just go thru the motions and "wait" to be enlightened, but to take responsibility for your own spiritual growth...
I've already answered that:
I spend far too much time thinking and overanalzying. I was never religious, but arguing against religion has always been my passion. Long nights have I been kept up wondering about God and the universe. From a young age I was well-versed in molecular biology, philosophy, logic, the history of religion and sociology. I studied molecular biology to defeat creationists. I read On the Genealogy of Morals, as well as works by Marcus Aurielus and Immanuel Kant. I became versed in sociology and religious anthropology, I studied civilizations that had developed extremely successfully with no religion that any Abrahamic follower would recognize.
In short, I think way too much. But that's just me
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
[...] Regardless, I can understand that people who become fearful because of religion, or who constantly think God is waiting for an excuse to send them to hell...I can see how that would be bad for the brain chemicals. I can also see that some of you on this site probably found yourself in that predicament, and finally decided to give up on religion because of it. I am in no way denying that religion was a negative force in your life at some point. That makes sense to me.
Nice try. You're begging the question based on the assumptions that lack of faith suggests a loss of it, that that loss follows a specific event, and that the traumatic event lead to an irrational rejection of faith. Maybe you've got a boner for that explanation, but it's wishful thinking. The irony of all this is that in your arduous spiritual journey to compare all competing faiths (that didn't involve learning Hindus, too, have a thing for Krishna, not just the airport-roaming Hare Krishnas), and your transformation into a strident advocate of the One True Faith(tm), your described beliefs have more in common with generic new age pap than the bitter, repressed prototypes your mall preachers would rather you forget. It's not like your deity swooped in and revised the texts. Society has progressed by the secular imperatives of the empirical realities people have come to know. Every time religion adjusts itself to changes in the culture, it's admitting its failure and irrelevance.
[...]
From all of this talking back and forth, I'm trying to get at where Sugarfree is coming from.
I also am sugar free (lowercase s, lowercase f) - I'm a diabetic. Being a diabetic means that you're constantly aware of how your body feels, whether your blood sugar is too high or too low; if you're operating on enough rest, etc.
One thing I am is an atheist. The reasons for atheism you have been acquainted with, SugarFree. There is no evidence for the God you believe in, the God that Muslims believe in, the God that Scientologists believe in (Hail Xenu!), the many gods that Hindus believe in, etc.
After the lack of evidence, there's the poisoning effects that religion has on society (Christians killing doctors that perform abortions, Catholics blowing themselves up in Northern Ireland to kill Protestants, Muslims blowing themselves up to kill Jews, Jews using their military to gun down Palestinians who are throwing rocks, Muslims and Hindus fighting over Kashmir in India, genocide in the former Yugosliavia between Christians and Muslims, etc, etc, etc).
I'm going to insult you for one second, SugarFree, and then I'm going to explain it. You are very shallow. By that, I mean that you place your own personal benefits of hiding your head in the sand and believing in your Jesus over society's benefits to have violence and hatred reduced.
I can almost hear you thinking right now, "Yeah, but if everyone was Christian, there wouldn't be any fighting!" Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. We have Episcopalians fighting with Anglicans over gay preachers. We have Baptists fighting with Catholics over the meaning of Mary. We have Mormons fighting with just about everyone that the Book of Mormon is just as valid as the New Testament. Your PERSONAL religion may be peaceful - when spread to a group, it is NOT.
You claim that your misguided faith is perfectly acceptable because it raises your serotonin levels. Another thing that raises serotonin is orgasms. I would suggest that you could replace your religious ecstasy with some of the real kind and be just as well off. I know, I know - your Jesus wasn't a huge fan of people having orgasms and being happy - unless they got married first. Considering that your Jesus never got married and therefore should have never had an orgasm, he has no idea what he missed out on (if he even existed).
So, some suggestions from the new guy on the scene:
1. Understand the reasons that we're atheists.
2. Understand the reasons why you're a Christian.
3. Figure out if any of the reasons you're a Christian can be replaced by any other source on Earth (self-confidence, for example, is replaceable by having a set of friends that compliment you.)
4. If they can (and they can), figure out why you have a problem with atheists being atheists, and articulate it.
5. If you've made it this far, you're probably 2/3 of the way to becoming an atheist. The people on these forums bv and large are helpful and kind. Feel free to ask questions.
Above all, you seem like a good person who has trouble letting go of a security blanket. I know it's hard to live for yourself without that invisible sky daddy in your corner, but life without delusions is always better than life with delusions. We'll be waiting for you.
Feel free to fire off a message to me when you've read this, SugarFree.
Best wishes,
Brian
"Like Fingerpainting 101, gimme no credit for having class; one thumb on the pulse of the nation, one thumb in your girlfriend's ass; written on, written off, some calling me a joke, I don't think that I'm a sellout but I do enjoy Coke."
-BHG
Why am I not religious?
Because when I studied logic, I found that religion was based on illogic
When I studied sociology, I found that religion was controlling mythology that had no actual truth but was a tool for control of the masses that managed to establish itself extremely well in the form of very deep cultural memes.
When I studied molecular biology, I concluded there was no evidence for design
And when I studied philosophy, I discovered that the Gods set down by religion are mutually exlusive, and many are insane.
In short, when you explain to me why you reject every single God man has made up over the last quarter million years, I will tell you why I reject yours.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
I suppose as an initial conversation between us - I can mainly tell you my experiences for coming from hardcore Christianity to Atheism>Objectivism>Universalism
As a Christian, I prayed diligently for god's assistance. What most people do not know - is that most of their prayers will coincide with the probable future, anyway. I conclude this because my life has actually improved since loosing my faith.
You never realize as a Christian that you are implanting programming into your subconcious when you pray to bring about the outcome requested in your prayers. When you loose your faith - you then realize your life is up to your own direction. Atheism brings instant development in maturity and intellectual capacity. My IQ has, literally, DOUBLED from 120 to 240 since loosing my faith in God. You instantly develope maturity because you can no longer pacify your helplessness by the delusion of prayer - you must engage your own life by your own means.
Alongside my loss of faith - and the main driving force behind it was my research. I found out events in the bible are NOT historically accurrate. Events like the flood of Noah, the Exodus of the Hebrews, and the Life of Jesus never happened. They're actually all myths - obvious myths at that.
I was taught by my church that the bible did not contradict itself. I read the entire volume and found out it contradicts itself HUNDREDS of times. I read through the creation accounnt through the eyes of an objective reader - instead of through the eyes of blinded wonder at a pretentious deity for its magic. The biblical creation story is absolutely absurd and impossible. God making a flat earth with a dome over it? God making the plants BEFORE the sun? Rediculous!
I came to a point to where my integrity required me to admit the definitively obvious: The bible cannot be held as anything more than absolute fable. When you don't hold to the bible - there is no reason to pretend Jesus is (even conceptually) a real person/being, anymore.
I then moved to other religions tesing them against reality. Unlike me as a Christian - I never gave the other religions (Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc) special prejudice - because any religion that is to be considered "true" will simply convey itself as such without needing to remind the person that it is "the truth".
I came to objectivism because pessimism took me to nihilism - and my intellectual integrity led me to find that absolutely intenable - objectivism is a philosophy that is integrally realistic - so i adopted it.
I took on Universalism because I find no direct desire to tell other people what to believe. I enjoy the company of people with altering beliefs - and the aspect of "being religious" never genuinly left my mind.
I have been attending a Unitarian Universalist church for a little more than a year now. I have not believed in God for a little more than two years.
I am pursuing a Securities (financial) liscense. I am also eventually going to a UU Seminary in Chicago to become a UU Minister. I see myself as a godless religious leader for the remainder of my life after this.
Oh really? I have an unnaturally high level of serotonin in my brain. I exercise, masturbate, and meditate every single day. Belief in a God is not a definitive method of having positive thoughts and emotions.
A routine of exercise, meditation, and masturbation will bring about happiness (serotonin) much more effectively than belief in a deity.
True - the thoughts do count. Have you tried Objective Atheism? What makes you so certain your chosen faith is superior for you than alternative philosophical belief sets? What have you tried in your life?
So... according to your beliefs - training the mind to become addicted to certain artificats does not lead the mind to seek out other venues of exercising similar addictions?
Religion involves rituals. Ritualistic activies can be considerably addictive - it is as simple as that.
Um... Did you forget that you posted a thread saying "convince me to become an atheist"?
As a pastafarian that needs his believes challenged them I do know where you are coming from.
These shallow atheists use things like logic, reason , and point out meaningless contradictions in our holy gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If they only understood his love. While your (our?) son of god died for your (our) sins, the FSM got drunk and fat and then gave us the chance too to get drunk and fat too. They are but two sides of the same coin, cruficition and spaghetti.
May pasta be upon you
Ramen
MrJonno
"o give us some idea of what you're looking for, sugarfree. What are your doubts about Christianity? For what precisely do you want to know answer(s)? We (atheists) have no single holy book, doctrine, or any "inerrant word" from a being not of this earth from which we can use to "convince" you of anything. And more importantly, only you can honestly answer the question to/for yourself as to whether you even remain convincible to change at this point. If historical and scientific FACTS, brutal honesty, and the use of sound reason and logic mixed with a lot of common sense are ALL not the things you demand for yourself, then I am sad to say we cannot convince you to be an atheist. However, it would not then be us who had lost the challenge you offered. Though indeed we would not be able to say we had won the challenge either, it would unfortunately be you who would've lost in the long run.
I do hope you find whatever it is you're looking for."
Evolution =not fact just theory
" suppose as an initial conversation between us - I can mainly tell you my experiences for coming from hardcore Christianity to Atheism>Objectivism>Universalism
As a Christian, I prayed diligently for god's assistance. What most people do not know - is that most of their prayers will coincide with the probable future, anyway. I conclude this because my life has actually improved since loosing my faith.
You never realize as a Christian that you are implanting programming into your subconcious when you pray to bring about the outcome requested in your prayers. When you loose your faith - you then realize your life is up to your own direction. Atheism brings instant development in maturity and intellectual capacity. My IQ has, literally, DOUBLED from 120 to 240 since loosing my faith in God. You instantly develope maturity because you can no longer pacify your helplessness by the delusion of prayer - you must engage your own life by your own means."
Your IQ doubled ? You know you can still be smart and have faith may'be your Iq didn't double while having faith just becuase you ween't trying
"Alongside my loss of faith - and the main driving force behind it was my research. I found out events in the bible are NOT historically accurrate. Events like the flood of Noah, the Exodus of the Hebrews, and the Life of Jesus never happened. They're actually all myths - obvious myths at that."
Not Historically accurate How can you prove they're all myths ? Please back up your aguments
"I was taught by my church that the bible did not contradict itself. I read the entire volume and found out it contradicts itself HUNDREDS of times. I read through the creation accounnt through the eyes of an objective reader - instead of through the eyes of blinded wonder at a pretentious deity for its magic. The biblical creation story is absolutely absurd and impossible. God making a flat earth with a dome over it? God making the plants BEFORE the sun? Rediculous!"
Of course God can make plants before the sun he is all powerful. If the bible contradicts itself name one time
"I came to a point to where my integrity required me to admit the definitively obvious: The bible cannot be held as anything more than absolute fable. When you don't hold to the bible - there is no reason to pretend Jesus is (even conceptually) a real person/being, anymore.
I then moved to other religions tesing them against reality. Unlike me as a Christian - I never gave the other religions (Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc) special prejudice - because any religion that is to be considered "true" will simply convey itself as such without needing to remind the person that it is "the truth".
You don't believe Jesus actually existed. No way he affected history way too much to have simply not exist
wisebod, the way you're quoting makes it really hard to tell which part of your post you wrote and which are supposed to be quotes. Perhaps you could do something a little more distinct?
This has been discussed at great length in other threads, but as one simple example, Noah's flood story obviously didn't happen as written because there were human civilizations around at the time with writing and they didn't mention being destroyed.
This is a pretty good reference for Biblical contradictions, incorrect science, and other problems with the Bible. I recommend the 'contradictions' link.
Name one effect, with evidence, that Jesus had which could not have occurred if he did not exist. Explain why there are no sources outside the Bible that mention Jesus as a real person, or, alternatively, point to a source outside the Bible that does so (and no, it doesn't count when Jesus is cited as the object of the worship of Christian).
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
you are right. I guess almost every god ever made is real then.
ARGH!!! This again.
"But It's Just A Theory"
http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/theory.html
"Evolution Is A Fact And A Theory"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
"Evolution-For-Beginners"
http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/evolution-for-beginners.html