Home Schooling in the US

Orias
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Home Schooling in the US

I find this subject very interesting as it is something pretty much unheard of in Australian society. I also think that it is partially to blame for the... well blatant ignorance (sorry to be so blunt), that your society exhibits at times. I understand that in some circumstances its better to be home schooled than actually go to school and be told that the universe is 6 thousand years old and Darwinian evolution is "only a theory"... but the vast majority of parents would be using this to further indoctrinate their children while limiting exposure to outside influences, potentially crippling the child (ren) both mentally and socially. I know if it hadn’t have been for my experiences meeting my friends and socialising I’d probably still be attending church every Sunday…

 

The US could do without home schooling in my opinion.

"...then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods..." - The Serpent, Genesis 3:5


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I agree, but generally the

I agree, but generally the 6000 year thing and "only a theory" would only be taught in private religious schools anyway.

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Orias
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Ah fair enough, I guess

Ah fair enough, I guess things arent quite as bad as I thought for the public schools over there... All the more reason to abolish home schooling.

 

Tell me, from your experience (if u went to school in the US), is highschool in the US as segregated as the TV shows make them out to be? No relevence, just out of interest.

"...then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods..." - The Serpent, Genesis 3:5


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Not sure what you mean - I

Not sure what you mean - I graduated almost 15 years ago, and went to a very rural school - but was told in History class that Jesus Christ was a real person, and evolution was never really emphasized. The Biology professor I had in college for intro didn't believe in evolution (!!!!!!!!)

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Orias
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Ok That's just fuckin'

Ok That's just fuckin' scary... I take back what I said.


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Unfortunately, that was

Unfortunately, that was before I was an atheist activist. I would have raised hell about that if I knew what I did now.

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Orias wrote: Ah fair

Orias wrote:

Ah fair enough, I guess things arent quite as bad as I thought for the public schools over there... All the more reason to abolish home schooling.

 

Tell me, from your experience (if u went to school in the US), is highschool in the US as segregated as the TV shows make them out to be? No relevence, just out of interest.

Segregated in what respect? The public high schools where I live are as diverse as the community in which they reside. The student body will have a representative percentage of race, religion, etc. For public schools, students attend the schools within the district in which they live.

Hence, if a district is primarily a particular race or religion, obviously the student body will reflect the demographics of the residents.

Is that what you were asking?

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Orias
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Hehe no nothing as in depth

Hehe no nothing as in depth as that just the social group cliches (nerds, jocks, cheerleaders, etc.). The US society is so vastly different from here (at least how it is portrayed) and that interests me.

Australians, especially the mainstream youth, model themsleves on what we are shown in American TV shows (sad but true). Thisis especially interesting as I seem to be finding that increasingly our laws are becoming more and more conservative, while our attitudes remain very liberal. Large disparity between what the public actually wants and what we say we want perhaps. Or maybe our leaders arent exactly the representatives they should be (what a shock!).

"...then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods..." - The Serpent, Genesis 3:5


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I guess the real question

I guess the real question is "which is worse, indoctrination to the state or indoctrination to parents?" I don't know the answer, and I don't like either, but since indoctrination to the state can be a much more uniform indoctrination, it seems more powerful and possibly more dangerous.

As for the real effects of home-schooled children, I doubt if they have a significant effect on what you would consider the attitude of the United States. It's a very small percentage of children that are home-schooled. I don't know the statistics, but most of us are the products of public schools. I think the quality of those public schools might be more the issue.  This is a very religious country, with powerful well-funded groups that want to undermine science and don't care about the consequences.

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Orias
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rexlunae wrote: I guess

rexlunae wrote:

I guess the real question is "which is worse, indoctrination to the state or indoctrination to parents?" I don't know the answer, and I don't like either, but since indoctrination to the state can be a much more uniform indoctrination, it seems more powerful and possibly more dangerous.

As for the real effects of home-schooled children, I doubt if they have a significant effect on what you would consider the attitude of the United States. It's a very small percentage of children that are home-schooled. I don't know the statistics, but most of us are the products of public schools. I think the quality of those public schools might be more the issue. This is a very religious country, with powerful well-funded groups that want to undermine science and don't care about the consequences.

 

Indeed, a worrying situation for the whole world considering the influence the US has over its fate. 

"...then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods..." - The Serpent, Genesis 3:5


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I have heard that 75% of

I have heard that 75% of home schooled children have Evangelicals as parents.

Only home schooling may make sense in some cases as partial home schooling may, but the schools aren't so bad that the majority should want out.

"What right have you to condemn a murderer if you assume him necessary to "God's plan"? What logic can command the return of stolen property, or the branding of a thief, if the Almighty decreed it?"
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I don't know the statistic

I don't know the statistic exactly, either, but I think 75% being evangelical is pretty close. The only home schooled kids I've ever known were children of devout Christians.

The school systems here are in trouble, from top to bottom. The emphasis is on getting a certain percentage of students to graduate -- not to teach students a certain set of knowledge. This has become particularly evident in Georgia, where we have a Hope Scholarship. In Georgia, if you get a B average in high school, the state pays for your college tuition. As you can imagine, this puts enormous pressure on the high schools to get the kids up to a B average. No particular reward is given for a real base of knowledge, so the net effect is to dumb down the schools, which allows more people to graduate, and to get free college.

Not that getting a free college education is a bad thing, but the drop out rate after the first year is very high for Hope students. They get here and realize that they don't have the knowledge they need for even the basic freshman courses, and they end up with horrible grades, and lose their scholarships.

I could go on for a while about education, but there actually was a point I wanted to get to. Home schooling is a symptom, not a problem. If the schools were better, if parents had been educated better, if we weren't so damned religious, if if if if if... then home schooling wouldn't be an issue.

 

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Iruka Naminori
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There are a LOT of formerly

There are a LOT of formerly home-schooled kids attending the local junior college and most of them are fundies.  Evidently, the fundy school I attended from grades 2 through 12 isn't quite fundy enough!

I once drove a home-schooled kid to voice class for a week.  I knew her mother was a fundy.  I took her to lunch once and she asked me, point-blank: "Why don't you believe in Christianity?"

I said, "Because it isn't true."

My blunt answer really shocked her.  I went on to explain what I knew about how the Christian religion is really just a copycat pagan religion that was made the official religion by Constantine.  I gave her some names to ponder: Mitrhas, Dionysus, Osiris.  I told her to look up the pagan origins of the Christ myth on the Internet(s)™.

I'm not sure what her mother thought of me, leading her child astray like that.  I do know that the whole family is moving to Texas.  I guess this area is getting too un-fundy. Smiling 

Once of my music teachers is a fundy.  When his oldest kid rebelled against religion, he was sent off to live with the fundy choir pianist.  Oh joy in fundyville! 

God, I sometimes hate this fucking town.

As for me, my science "education" mostly consisted of learning how do debunk evolution.  We learned about man tracks next to dinosaur tracks in Texas and that if the Earth were really 4.5 billion years old, it would be inside the sun because the sun shrinks at a rate of 5 feet per year.  Extrapolate that into the past and you have a sun-encased earth.  (I never did learn the truth of the matter on that one.)

In pockets like this one, usually rural America, there tend to be a lot of fundies and they want their kids raised fundy.  I was sent to fundy school.  A lot of the locals are home-schooled.  The result is the same: a bunch of brainwashed kids.

I have NO IDEA how I got out of it.  I do feel it did a lot of harm. 

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We did discuss this issue in

We did discuss this issue in one of our shows, so if you heard it sorry for repeating myself, but I homeschooled my kids for two years, and although most of the other homeschoolers that I encountered were doing it for the purposes of sheltering their children from the evil "world", I did it because I believe that mass education is designed to produce automatons and supress critical thinking skills. Binge and purge education with standardization as the norm just doesn't foster the kinds of qualities that produce leaders and innovators. Not everybody can homeschool, and my children are attending school now, but from a philosophical standpoint I do believe that public education is woefully inadequate if not detrimental to the children upon whom it is forced.


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Well spoken, Kelly. I too

Well spoken, Kelly. I too home school my 11-year-old daughter for the same reason. We used to attend a local group for home-schooled kids, but it truly was filled with nutcases. The reason that some of the others were home schoolers was because they refused (for religious reasons) to have their children vaccinated against childhood diseases and the local school board wouldn't allow them to attend. So they home schooled instead. You can imagine how my daughter and I fit into that group. Here's a YouTube video of my daughter defending her atheist dad (me) against a charge that I was an unfit parent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-2M9Mb2jY

David

PS  To Kelly and Yellow #5: I hope to talk with both of you on the show Saturday night!!! I saw your video a couple of days ago!!!!!!!!


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I just thought I'd throw my

I just thought I'd throw my $0.02 in.

I was homeschooled from 2nd grade all the way to graduation. My parents did it partly because the public schools do a poor job, and partly to shelter me (I came from an evangelical christian background.) I didn't like the sheltering part, but I think homeschooling did give me the means to overcome it. Here's how.

I basically taught myself middle & high school. I know how to learn on my own, and I still love learning. I usually got done with my school work (my parents kept me on a strict schedule) about 1:30 in the afternoon, so I had hours before all the neighbors came home to do things. I became very good a playing guitar and taught myself computer programming as a teenager.

Many students I've meet who come from public school backgrounds do not know how to learn on their own. They need to have someone spoon feed them. I say this with 4 years of tutoring math at a junior college and 2 years as a TA at a university.

I also think my self learning ability and natural curiosity help in my overcoming my theism.

But homeschooling is not for everyone. It requires a lot from the parents. And you need to be self disciplined.