Born Again Evangelical Christians
Posted on: February 11, 2007 - 11:13pm
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Born Again Evangelical Christians
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1207357407834951222&hl=en
I made a video about the Born Again Christians of America.
It uses some of the best clips from "Jesus Camp", a documentary that I've recently seen.
Even moderate christians and believers should oppose these radicals. My video's not the best but I really want to show some of this material.
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Long, drawn out torture and death is too good for those bastards! When I'm pulling my knife from the twitching corpse of the last religion on earth anyone who misses it can blame a UK mob called 'Scripture Union'
These guys had infiltrated the faculty at my high school and organised summer camps for the kids. I was 13 and pretty ignorant. The phrase 'Scripture Union' and that stupid fish symbol meant absolutely nothing to me. All I saw was Abseiling, rock climbing, kayaking, archery... and signed up.
It was a cross between Auschwitz, the vatican and that place where they took Denzil Washington in the Manchurian Candidate. Kids all around me were dropping like flies, their eyes rolling back in their heads, fixed manic grins, opening their internal organs to jehova's bouncing brat and holding impromptu seances left right and center.
I was a 13 year old scottish ignoramus but I made my own vow during those two weeks: to never rest until I'd slaughtered every single religion on the face of the planet. Fast forward 24 years and the jihad is not going as well as I'd hoped but I'll never give up the crusade.
the Baby Jesus Show R18 - Episode 2 now on youtube
I was kinda hoping for a lot more replies to my video in this forum.
Nice video! The first pic you show of Haggard is classic comedy...no wonder that ugly bastard had to pay for sex!
I recently saw another very relevant video about fundamentalist child abuse and "creation science" (an oxymoron, I know!). It had this old man with a Abe Lincoln beard singing to little children about dinosaurs being in the bible (he said something about "Behemoth was a sauropod"
. He also offered as propaganda a Photoshopped picture of an ape with a human face superimposed on it, and asked the children, "Does your grandmother or grandfather look like this?" which, of course, illicited a huge laugh from the impressionable kids.
A young mother was interviewed afterwards and she praised the brainwashing session because creationism "is so easy to explain to my children", as opposed to the complexities of explaining natural selection and evolutionary biology. The whole video was sickening, and ended with the documentarian questioning a girl in her late teens. The documentarian asked the young woman what she thought of someone like herself, who believes in the truth of Darwinian evolution. The young woman responded in a hilariously arrogant way: "Well, maybe you just haven't studied all of the facts and evidence that I have..." WTF?!?!?
Does anyone know what video this is? I can't find the link anymore!
I was horrified by that documentary. I almost vomited all over the keyboard. It moved me to change my signature.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=aLxrmM91SkE
I believe that's footage from the HBO Documentary FRIENDS OF GOD. There's the trailer there with some of the footage you mentioned.
I'd love to, but I can't watch it to comment on it. Google and youtube have been corporately nuked.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I saw Jesus Camp in its entirety and that was bad enough. The clips in the google video took the scariest parts and I think its very effective in showing people what rational thinking people are up against.
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That made my blood boil.
In the Jesus Camp part, did anyone get visions of the RRS crashing into the room?
"What right have you to condemn a murderer if you assume him necessary to "God's plan"? What logic can command the return of stolen property, or the branding of a thief, if the Almighty decreed it?"
-- The Economic Tendency of Freethought
These people need to be put in prison if they continue to traumatize and brainwash these children.
One scene in the film that comes back to haunt me is the boy who admits to the flock he has doubts. He then sits and in a meditative position and is probably, in his confused mind, praying either for forgiveness or some kind of sign that god exists.
I don't see this kid growing up to be a fundie. He'll probably, after experiementing with drugs and alcohol, become a counsilor for troubled and abused children from evangelical homes.
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Does praying to George Bush count as idol worship?
Good question. It should.
That's not exactly what they were doing there.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
From what I've seen, a great many "bad Christian experiences" are because of the individual, who has something happen to them in a church and then decides to hold a grudge rather than to forgive. (First and foremost, love God, second, love others as you love yourself...two of Jesus's main teachings, and probably also the two most challenging to implement in one's life...but refusing to do either of the two leads to spiritual brokenness, the fruits of which include bitterness and anger.)
I sometimes wish there was some kind of legal recourse available to those of us who were treated this way as children. Being raised in such a manner does not equip a child for life in the real world. I'm middle-aged, but I don't feel middle-aged. I feel like an adolescent still trying to make sense out of what I was taught and what truly is.
All any of us can do is our best. I was raised by fundies. I'm handicapped by that experience, but hopefully what I have gone through will enable me to help someone else leave religion or deal with the after-effects. You gotta just keep on keepin' on, as the old saying goes.
Since the Jesus Camp experience was throrougly documented, maybe someday one of the kids can take on the religious nutjobs that did this to them. I hope so.
Seriously, mesh, I couldn't watch all of your video. I watched part of Jesus Camp with RRS in the chatroom, finding I needed the support of other freethinkers in order to stomach that crap. It reminded me so much of my social studies teacher and my circle of whackjob fundy friends. Nas-tee!
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Redeeminator: your avatar freaks me out a bit. I suppose I need to watch your video, huh?
But seriously: a baby with Sith eyes and a black mouth saying something I can't lip-read. Freaky.
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His video I found easily watchable and good. Jesus Camp on the other hand (which I got last night), I could only bring myself to watch 20 minutes of. Some of the things they were telling the kids were just so wrong and many thing completely the opposite of how they are in reality (ie the part of the video that kid is watching that says Evolution is just a belief, creationism is scientific). There was only so much I could take.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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Actually I am angry at religionists like this and you should be, too. I think it's more common to find an "angry" American atheist since this country is run by Christians.
Growing up, I knew a lot of nutbars like this. For awhile, I was a nutbar like this. I still encounter similar nutbars. Of course, anecdotal stories can't tell a person how many religious nutbars are out there. Still, similar nutbars like Ted Haggard have the ear of the president on a weekly basis...or had the ear of the president on a weekly basis until, like so many before him, he got caught with his pants down. I believe George W. Bush himself is a religious nutbar. What do you say about someone who supposedly said God told him to invade Iraq? That is nutbar-ity of the highest order: world ending nutbar-ity.
I will say this, though: the Christian "faith" inevitably leads to Christian nutbars. The nutbars are the ones who have read the bible and actually try to practice what it says. They are the ones who don't make excuses for the text and become just as intolerant as the book itself. Religious moderates are betraying Christianity and reason equally by not being "on fire for god" and by twisting scripture to suit their own beliefs.
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I've not had a personal relationship with a Christian nutbar. Except, once I listened to a sermon by a guy that was trying to rationalize away the dinosaurs. He was a junior pastor or something, and I think most of us in the congregation were listening politely, then afterwards asked each other, what in the world was he talking about?
I wish your Christian experience had been different, but, unfortunately, I can't change that for you.
However, I do think blanket statements about any group of people are generally wrong. There are always extremes on the fringes, but then most people hang out somewhere in the middle. A Christian can be in the middle (not too liberal, not too fundamental) and still be "on fire" for God.
When the Evangelical Church stands up and punishes/rejects these "radicals" for what they are doing, then that's the day I will stop generalizing. If they don't reject these bastards, then they are condoning their actions in the name of their church.
Let's imagine like if someone led a church organization and some of my priests were molesting little boys. The the leader doesn't punish and reject them as fucking criminals, then that organization will bear the responsibilty and condones their actions.
So yeah fuck the Evangelical Church. Becky Fischer's a fucking star and is viewed as a hero on fucking the 700 club and other bullshit.
I wish your Christian experience had been different, but, unfortunately, I can't change that for you.
However, I do think blanket statements about any group of people are generally wrong.
Then stop pretending “bad Christian experiences” are an aberration necessarily disregarded to reinforce your particular concept of it. They're all Christians, even the assholes, because they say they are. When Christians disagree, they factionalize. Aside from biblical literalists, every Christian is living out some form of contradiction with his or her dogma. Yourself included. Odds are, many secular priorities have already become integral parts of your lifestyle, and you don't recognize them out of ignorance of the distinction.
Also, stop fucking evoking religious trauma as an explanation for atheism. You have no trouble rejecting Krishna: do I need to ask what a Hindu did to you? I hate to repeat it, but it's special pleading.
There are always extremes on the fringes, but then most people hang out somewhere in the middle. A Christian can be in the middle (not too liberal, not too fundamental) and still be “on fire“ for God.
What a load of mealy-mouthed bull.
Turning a child against the world before they have developed the critical faculties to discover the world is a great injustice. These kids are going to grow up crippled by hate and tainted with mistrust for every person who does not furiously pound on a bible as they do. The joy of youth is discovering that the world is not black and white; that it's a varied spectrum of experience. They have forever had this precious experience robbed from them by these fundy assholes. They will see nothing out their window but a world filled with gay, baby-killing, god-hating liberals. This is truly sad.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
From what I've seen, a great many "bad Christian experiences" are because of the individual, who has something happen to them in a church and then decides to hold a grudge rather than to forgive. (First and foremost, love God, second, love others as you love yourself...two of Jesus's main teachings, and probably also the two most challenging to implement in one's life...but refusing to do either of the two leads to spiritual brokenness, the fruits of which include bitterness and anger.)
I've seen spiritual religious people that are bitter and angry. So don't give me that bullshit.
You're a a fucking primate okay? The earth is 4.5 billion years old. It took 500 million years for life to ever come into existance on earth. It took 4 billion years for life to get to where it is now. Theres over 120 billion galaxies out there. Each galaxy has hundreds of billions of stars.
Stop your wishful thiniking that there's some benevolent powerful force (imaginary friend) somewhere out there that gives a damn about you or the events happening in this slither of geologic time known as human history.
I'm going to spend my Sundays hiking through the mountains and enjoying the beach while you pray to yourself and waste hours of life subscribing to your club of wishful thinkers in a meeting house.
The world can only benefit from more free thinking and abandoment of taking mythological texts for fact. There's a big difference between being spiritual and being super stitious and holding unproven and unfactual beliefs as absolute truth.
Which makes God all the more amazing, if you ask me.
From what I've seen, a great many "bad Christian experiences" are because of the individual, who has something happen to them in a church and then decides to hold a grudge rather than to forgive. (First and foremost, love God, second, love others as you love yourself...two of Jesus's main teachings, and probably also the two most challenging to implement in one's life...but refusing to do either of the two leads to spiritual brokenness, the fruits of which include bitterness and anger.)
If only you knew how good it feels to understand you and your delusion.
You need to give up this idea that atheists are lost, forlorn, angry and lonely individuals. Not that I'd imagine you'd care too much about this kind of thing, but it lacks any grounding in reality. So spend sunday amongst you're terrified, confused and uneducated peers. We'll spend sunday amongst friends.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
Why should people forgive an institution that condones and silently supported[s] pedophilia? That condones and verbally supports hatred against visible and less visible groups? That would be the height of irresponsibility. The day your churches and theists show their love for others is the day they can expect to recieve it back in kind. Not one second before.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I'm wondering, what would be wrong with just saying 'I don't know right now'? If I just made something up, would you accept my answer just because you didn't have a better one?
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
From what I've seen, a great many “bad Christian experiences“ are because of the individual, who has something happen to them in a church and then decides to hold a grudge rather than to forgive.[...]
Who put a quarter in ya? Yeah, I know your premise already; I'm refuting it. The traumatic experience explanation is attractive to you because it takes the heat off questions of the validity of your beliefs by characterizing non-belief as an irrational knee-jerk response. It's an ad hominem. “You're speaking from (some unidentified trauma and) fear, therefore your refutations of specific arguments for belief are invalid.” But if you think “bad” Christians don't represent Christianity and the religion should be judged on its own merits, you ought to understand that many atheists have done just that: but not come up with the answer you like.
I'm wondering, what would be wrong with just saying 'I don't know right now'? If I just made something up, would you accept my answer just because you didn't have a better one?
No, only if you made it up thousands of years ago, translated it a dozen times, edited it during several different political regimes, and your name was completely garbled or forgotten.
As far as I can tell, "I don't know" is the most reasonable answer. Certainly saying that the universe is too beautiful, too rich, too complex to have come about itself is absurd. You assume the prior existence of a MORE rich, MORE complex, MORE perfect being who created it all. I can't think of anything to say to this sort of "logic".
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But everyday I see evidence of things created by someone, but I never see evidence of something created out of nothing. So, I feel your "logic" goes against the easily observable laws of nature.
That's rather unfortunate because universes get created all the time. Ohh hey, there's a new one right now just above my left shoulder!
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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That’s a very disturbing video. I think many of those kids will be messed up for years to come. They’ve been turned into christian automatons and they no longer have a life of their own. Their childhood has been stolen.
You FEEL logic? I think that’s your problem.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
But everyday I see evidence of things created by someone, but I never see evidence of something created out of nothing. So, I feel your “logic“ goes against the easily observable laws of nature.
The trouble with citing observable laws of nature is that the demand can also be turned toward the thing you think created everything. If the answer isn't a supportable explanation, you've only made a bigger logical hole.
You FEEL logic? I think that’s your problem.
The trouble is oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
And what is a soul?
How conveniently circular. 'You can't see all this evidence for god unless you believe in him first'.
It's far more likely that you're seeing the world the way you want to see it. Real evidence is objective, so that everyone can see it.
You never did say why 'I don't know' isn't an acceptable answer.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
I have, long ago. And guess what: It's not real.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
If you are not seeking God with all your mind heart and soul, you will never find Him. Perhaps that is why you perceive he is so absent from this world.
Yeah, you gotta believe to get proof that you don't need because you have faith.
Even if the "evidence of design" point is conceded, it does nothing to further the claims of Christianity. At best it points to a Deistic God.
"The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously." [Albert Einstein, letter to Hoffman and Dukas, 1946]
You're probably right. After all, a hallmark of insanity is doing the same things repeatedly in the hopes of getting a different result.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Yes. I also realized that feelings are a poor way to determine reality, because they are easily prejudiced.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.