A response to ALMALHAMAH

LeftofLarry
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A response to ALMALHAMAH

This was taken from the Dawkins page.

I decided to start a new thread.


ALMALHAMAH
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MattShizzle wrote:To me,

MattShizzle wrote:
To me, this isn't really any different than arguing whether the tooth fairy has wings or not, or is male or female.

The origional discussion was for LeftofLary to prove his wild accusation that women in islam are to be punished by rape, and he has yet to accomplish his mission.

all these other atheists pulled out many red herrings and they want to me to catch catch catch..

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:What i am

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
What i am saying is no translation of the Quran translates in 2:223 the arabic word 'zawj' into the word 'women'.

It means wives, not women, this is clearly a misquote. They didn't even read it before they posted it.


If it was clear we wouldn't be arguing now would we...

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.223

002.223 wrote:
YUSUFALI: Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

PICKTHAL: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

SHAKIR: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

PICKTHAL seems to think it says women so it is not clear Alma...

Quote:
And why are you defending them? I think they can defend themselves.

I can defend whom ever I like.


ALMALHAMAH
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It says Nisaukum meaning

It says Nisaukum meaning 'YOUR WOMEN' a reference to wives, not to all women.

Looks like you took this out of context in order to promote misunderstanding about the text.

In the other versions in place of 'your women' the word 'wives' are placed in order to show you what the word implies.

If you read the arabic you will understand what nisaukum means.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Quote:Seems

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Quote:
Seems he's doing the same thing Christian fundamentalists do, namely, quoting only the passages he likes, and conveniently overlooking the passages he doesn't.

I am quoting the verses he MISQUOTED and took out of context.

Quote:
At the very least we've shown that his book, like any other holy writ, is filled with contradictions.

Maybe in la la land, but not in reality. You changing the subject anyway the point of this whole thread is to show me where in the Quran Islam condones rape, and your friends have failed. (still looking)

Quote:
Also, we've shown this highly indicates it was written by fallible mere mortals, since ordinary human beings have a good and bad side to them. A perfect god, if such existed, would never contradict itself or be confusing.

It was not only written actually it was memorized by heart. We have the origional version in arabic the origional language it was reavealed in. There are no errors in it.

I don't read you correcting any misquoting. What I see is your requoting the verses and then adding parentheticals explaining what you think they mean.

Another case of a god needing human help to explain that what he says isn't what he means.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:It says

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
It says Nisaukum meaning 'YOUR WOMEN' a reference to wives, not to all women.

Look at what you just said...

You say it means this but it is a reference to that...

Quote:
Looks like you took this out of context in order to promote misunderstanding about the text.

No I didn't I put up three different translations from a respectable website and gave you links to it. Plus gave you links that explained who the translator was,

Quote:
In the other versions in place of 'your women' the word 'wives' are placed in order to show you what the word implies.

Implies? Something can imply lots of different things...

Take insults. While most imply something about harm or just dislike, a lot really mean something else. BTW the ones I'm talking about are loads of fun around homophobes. "You want me to do what with what?" yeah I'll just let you fill in the blanks.

What about sarcasm? It implies something but certainly isn't clear, but lets look at what you are saying.

'your women' means 'wives'

First that means you can have more then one wife, how nice for the women...

Second 'your' implies ownership, but that is if you want to talk about what implies what...

Quote:
If you read the arabic you will understand what nisaukum means.

Not this "learn my lang then you can argue with me" crap again... Head Bash


ALMALHAMAH
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First that means you can

First that means you can have more then one wife, how nice for the women...

In islam you can marry up to four, but if you feel you cannot do justice between them, then only one.

Why don't you stick to the point of the thread? Showing where in the Quran does it explicitly state rape as a punishment for women who commit crimes in shari'a.

But i understand what your doing, drowing men grab straws.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Alma I am not grabbing at

Alma I am not grabbing at straws. If women are viewed as less then men then bad things can happen to them. But this really isn't my argument I just popped in to help with this or that point.

BTW the argument is "that RAPE is a prefectly acceptable form of punishment in the areas in the middle east run by tribal leaders...whom are guess what??? MUSLIM."

This started because you said.

"America is facing a Moral and Ethical collapse due to the influence of atheist groups and assosiations.

I presented evidence of why i think this is so, attributing it to rape, drugs, teenage pregnancy, and other issues."

That is saying atheist groups are causing rape, drugs, teenage pregnancy, and 'other issues'. People are going to respond to that...