Twain, atheism, and "negativity"

Archeopteryx
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Twain, atheism, and "negativity"

This might be a sort of convoluted OP, so I apologize in advance if it seems that way. I'm trying to be coherent, I promise. =) 

 

I've been reading a little Mark Twain recently, and some of his work is sort of freshening up my perspective on what the difference between religious thinkers and atheistic thinkers might consist of.

 

The first I read was The Diaries of Adam & Eve, which is hilarious, and I highly recommend it, but it's not available online that I know of.

Just today was The Story of the Bad Little Boy, which you can read here if you're interested. (It's short).

 

But it sort of got me thinking about exactly what Twain/Clemens is attacking in both of these. At first I just kind of smiled at them and had that smug "yeah, religion is pretty silly, tee hee" feeling we all enjoy.

But thinking on it more, it seems to me that he's attacking not just religion, but a perspective in general. Namely, the perspective that everything will be like it is in the story books and fairy tales, that justice will always be served somehow (naturally or by the hand of god), that everything will always work itself out eventually, that people will always get what is coming to them, that the world makes sense.

I know that I don't think that way. If some guy is a prick, as the bad little boy seems to be, I know that no hand of god is going to correct him. He's just a prick, and he will continue to be that way, most likely. But a Christian, say, might actually believe that justice will ultimately be served, in time and in god's way.

 

So I suppose what I'm wondering now isn't whether or not this "optimistic" perspective is appropriate, but how that perspective might make someone more reluctant to let go of religion and lose that feeling of safeness, that feeling that the world makes sense. Maybe it's like being on your own for the first time---no guide, no do-overs, no assurance that life isn't going to fuck you over.

Is this why so many theists accuse atheists of having a "negative philosophy"?

Is this what many theists mean when they say some people "need" religion?

Despite a fear of hell or a fear that they are betraying a "father" figure, is this another reason theists might be afraid to consider atheism? 

I feel like there's something more here that I'm approaching but not quite touching.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


I AM GOD AS YOU
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   Basically Atheism is

   Basically Atheism is dead sober, religion is a drunken fantacy addiction .... hard to kick ....

The great Mark Twain, was a witty realist, and a drinker.  Google 'Mark Twain Quotes' for some sobering fun .... 

   "I don't think prohibition is practical. The Germans, you see, prevent it. Look at them. I am sorry to learn that they have just invented a method of making brandy out of Sawdust. Now, what chance will prohibition have when a man can take a rip saw and go out and get drunk with a fence rail? What is the good of prohibition if a man is able to make brandy smashes out of the shingles of his roof, or if he can get delirium tremens by drinking the legs off his kitchen table". Mark Twain 

I love that  guy ! 


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I'm not sure what you mean

I'm not sure what you mean by 'something more'.

 

You seem to have summed it up quite well. Reality is cold and hard. The universe is indifferent to our successes, failures and our ideas of justice.

There is something fundamentally defective in our psychology from this point of view. We expect justice. Maybe it's evolutionary. Maybe our concept of justice helps us work in groups. Whatever the reason for these instincts, they don't fit reality.

I think that when forced to deal with reality most of us have the personal strength to accept that the universe will not play by our rules. It's an unpleasant realisation but we survive it.

Religion means that you never need to face up to the universe's indifference. It's not that believers wouldn't have the strength to deal with it if forced to, it's just that they aren't forced to.

It's nice to believe that the universe plays by your rules. If you have a system set up in which you can maintain that delusion it's a comfortable way to live.

 On a cold night would you give up your blanket? Depending on how cold it is you could probably handle it but why would you want to? It's so much more comfortable under the blanket.

Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!


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I should add that I don't

I should add that I don't think that accepting cold hard reality is a negative world view.

I think it's a neutral world view. The universe isn't going to help you but it isn't out to get you either. (This does not contradict my name... while I know the universe isn't out to get me I am still sure everything else is.)

You can apply this knowledge negatively or positively. I choose to apply it positively. I can choose to make of my life whatever I like. No puppet master is going to push me towards a destiny I don't want or stop me from achieving my goals. I don't need to guess what God wants from me, only decide what I want from me. If I see injustice I know it's not God's design, it's bastards being bastards and I can try to do something to stop those bastards.

It's the difference beween being a child and being an adult. A child is protected from certain difficult or dangerous parts of life but that limits their freedom. Once you grow up you are no longer protected but you have that freedom.

As has been pointed out many times religion is a way of remaining mentally in childhood. As a child your 'universe' is ruled over by your parents. It's a universe that cares deeply about your well being. They provide absolute unquestionable justice and they make sure you aren't hurt (atleast most of the time). Religion carries this through to 'adulthood'. Your parents are no longer powerful enough to be the rulers of your universe you need something bigger, you need God.

Childhood however was only ever meant to prepare us for adulthood.

 

 

Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!


Hambydammit
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If I'd gotten ten bucks for

If I'd gotten ten bucks for every time I've been accused of being negative, I'd have a lot of money.  The weird thing, and you can ask anybody from RRS who's met me, is that I'm a really positive person.  I'm probably the most easy going person you've ever met, and I can say that having no idea who you might know.

I imagine Sapient would back me up on this.  I'm extremely aware of cold hard reality, but it has made me very chill.  Since I don't expect miracles or justice, I just live my life in a way that makes sense in a world that doesn't care about me personally.  It's not negative at all.  In fact, I think I enjoy the good things in life more because I don't feel as if I was ever entitled to them through anything other than luck or my own work.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


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    ParanoidAgnostic ,

    ParanoidAgnostic , that is so Twain

Keep writing, you ain't paranoid ,

you is so fun ....  Smile 


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I understand the desire to

I understand the desire to have an 'enemy' get their just desserts, but I don't think I've ever believed that it is destined to happen. Yet without this belief I'm still a positive, happy person. I don't need other people to pay for their ill deeds to make me content. It seems bizzarre to me that christians, who are all about forgiveness, would hold to a belief like this and not be willing to let it go.


Visual_Paradox
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The War Prayer by Mark

The War Prayer

by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)

 

It was a time of great exulting and excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest depths of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast doubt upon its righteousness straight way got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came – next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams – visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! – then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

"God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!"

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory – An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there, waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside – which the startled minister did – and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne – bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import – that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of – except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two – one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this – keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer – the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it – that part which the pastor – and also you in your hearts – fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory – must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God the Father fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle – be Thou near them! With them – in spirit – we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with hurricanes of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it – for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

[After a pause.] "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits."

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!


Archeopteryx
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Visual_Paradox wrote: The

Visual_Paradox wrote:

The War Prayer

by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)

 

Thanks for sharing. =)