ergun caner "debate" in Lynchburg area

Medievalguy
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ergun caner "debate" in Lynchburg area

Ok, calling anyone who wants to come with me to this ergun caner "debate" @ 7:30 on Tuesday Dec. 4th at the Central Virginia Community College next to Walmart. Free pizza and drinks. It's hosted by this "liberty" "university" professor ergun caner and is titled "one thing you would ask god" or something like that. Ergun will be answering for god..... anyone willing to come. So far the only person I know of in the Lynchburg area is Nullusdeus. (Nullus, PM me if you can come and we'll work out meeting up for the event) I plan on taking a video camera and recording the "debate" so all yall can pick it apart.


Brian37
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If I still lived there I

If I still lived there I would definately go. When I lived there I enoyed being a thorn in the side of Fartwell and his cronies.

The way you wrote this up, it sounds like "debate" is code for Caner preaching and anyone who asks a tough question will be admonished.

Ask him for me, "Other than "god did it", do you have emperical evidence showing HOW a disimbodied being knocked up a 9 to 14 year old girl?

Ask him HOW human flesh survives rigor mortis after 3 days of death.

I really hope some atheists show up besides you. I do know even if you are the only one there, there will be pleanty of theists who cant stand what Liberty has done to that city in hording the resources and bullying city council over property use.

You might ask LC if you can post flyers notifying students of this event. I hope you do find other supporters to go with you. I wish I could go myself. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Wow, I am incredibly

Wow, I am incredibly jealous.  I want to go!  Damn Michigan.

But anyway, it should be a fun opportunity to at least watch an asshole get flustered.  Have you planned out your question(s)? 


triften
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One question?! Does each

One question?! Does each person get one question? Be careful, he may just give a standard B.S. response and you'll have no chance to call him on it.

-Triften 


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Yeah, I'm trying to find one

Yeah, I'm trying to find one perfect question that just makes the whole idea of god stupid with a little bit of sarcasm. But if you think of a really good one, PM me with it since there are liberty kids on this forum that have tracked down my screenname and know I'm coming to the event. They might read the question and go tell Caner before hand. :-\


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Bump since I'm hoping Nullus

Bump since I'm hoping Nullus will see this in time to come to the event.


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Hey, I live in Lynchburg --

Hey, I live in Lynchburg -- I'll try to make it and bring a handful of Atheist friends. Do you know where in CVCC it's being hosted?


Medievalguy
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Welcome to the forums!

Welcome to the forums! Awesome, the more the merrier. I just have to come up with a way that you and Nullus will recognize me. Perhaps I'll wear my hat.


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Medievalguy wrote: Yeah,

Medievalguy wrote:
Yeah, I'm trying to find one perfect question that just makes the whole idea of god stupid with a little bit of sarcasm.

"Why are you such a giant douche?"

Nah, that'll just be responded to with "aha! so you [DO believe god exists!|ARE just angry at god!]"

"Why do you care what people believe as long as they lead good lives?"

I'd enjoy hearing that answered. But of course the pat response is "you can't lead a good life without God" which is responded to with "tell that to the Good Samaritan".

Yikes, this is tricky.

Quote:
But if you think of a really good one, PM me with it since there are liberty kids on this forum that have tracked down my screenname and know I'm coming to the event. They might read the question and go tell Caner before hand. :-\

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I am the one putting on the

I am the one putting on the event and Ergun agreed to answer as many questions that you have. He plans on only talking for a little bit about his defense of Christianity then answering questions the rest of the way. I will not be talking with Ergun about any question you want to ask and I have posted some flyers at Lynchburg college but since I am not a student I could not put many up. I did put up lots of them at CVCC though. I did not tell anyone at Liberty about this event, it is not for them. If any of them cause any problem, which I do not think they would, I will personal kick them out. This is for non-believers only. It is in the Meritt building room 5118 at CVCC. I have no idea how many people are coming but I can promise you it will not be a sermon and we are not trying to win anything. I just want Christians to start anwering questions and stop running from them. Ergun has agreed and said he would do this. I can promise you will be treated like royalty and I will be the bouncer if any Christian tries to be a jerk. I planned this you and not them.


triften
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One question for Ergun:

One question for Ergun: "Why do you presume to speak for god?"

-Triften 


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Tuesday Night...

I'm so glad to find this site, (thanks to Nullesdeus). I will definitely see you all on Tuesday Night at CVCC. It's great to finally find a way to meet fellow atheists in the Lynchburg area.


triften
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Welcome to the forums,

Welcome to the forums, Hillcat! In all likelihood, someone (possibly me) will recommend that you post an introduction in the Introductions forum. Smiling

 

-Triften 


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I'm glad to see you came

HILLCAT, I'm glad to see you came aboard. WELCOME!

 

As triften mentioned, please go to the Introduction forums and well... introduce yourself.

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


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Pope of Herecy wrote: Hey,

Pope of Herecy wrote:

Hey, I live in Lynchburg -- I'll try to make it and bring a handful of Atheist friends. Do you know where in CVCC it's being hosted?

WELCOME!!!! I didn't see your post until now. I hope you made it to the discussion. Please look at your Private Messages. 

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


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nullus and medi and

nullus and medi and hillcat,

it was nice meeting you guys last night.  hopefully we can do more things like that in the future, and starbucks is a must too.  

 

when is that video going to be up? 


Brian37
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WTF? DONT LEAVE US HANGING!

WTF?

DONT LEAVE US HANGING! How did it go? 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Yahweh must be a lazy piece

Yahweh must be a lazy piece of shit indeed if he feels the need to appoint Ergun Caner of all people to do his talking for him.


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Brian37 wrote: WTF? DONT

Brian37 wrote:

WTF?

DONT LEAVE US HANGING! How did it go? 

Yes,we are all dying to know.


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I wasn't actually there but

I wasn't actually there but from what I heard their were only a handful of atheists present and a room full or theists with questions (suspiciously staged?).  I understand they will post more soon.


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shelley is somewhat

shelley is somewhat correct.  three confirmed posters from this board were there, excluding theists.  caner opened up with about a 10 minute talk on why he believed followed by a question to skeptics, why do you not believe?  

i think there were only about 4-5 questions asked.  one was from a christian on "why does God allow suffering?"  an atheist asked a few questions on church and state.  an atheist who doesnt post here asked "why does God require faith?"  i dont remember any of the other questions asked.  afterwards people conversed for around 20-30 minutes.  

we plan on doing these things again, at other local colleges.  we'll obviously have to change the theme to keep it fresh, but we will give you all better notice next time.  if anyone is willing to come to debate that would be nice too.  nullus and i talked about the prospect of having rook come debate caner or habermas.  let us know what you guys want to do and we'll try and put it together.


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I am not specifically

I am not specifically interested in debating Cancer.  However, as I mentioned to null over PMs, if there is a event in Lynchburg I could probably come but would need at least two weeks notice.


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Apologies.  You will be

Apologies.  You will be better informed next time.

Medieval guy recorded it.  I'm not sure when he plans to put it on youtube, but it is finals week, so give him some time.  Caner recorded it too.  You will eventually see it. 


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shelleymtjoy wrote: I am

shelleymtjoy wrote:
I am not specifically interested in debating Cancer.  However, as I mentioned to null over PMs, if there is a event in Lynchburg I could probably come but would need at least two weeks notice.

I just remembered.  This was part of the problem.  Atheists weren't willing to ask questions.  As you will see in the video, Caner begged and begged.  For these things to work we need atheists to ask questions, otherwise it will seem like the Liberty crowd is pitching softballs, which didn't happen.  I hope the atheists who were with us have a little more faith that we aren't going to attack you.  But seriously, we need you guys to be more vocal in these forums. 


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Double post.

Double post.


Brian37
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Tell Caner that I am sure

Tell Caner that I am sure that if he gets an account here and starts a thread in "Kill em with Kindness". We can continue the debate here online. You are welcome to do that too.

As an aside, I find it funny for a Liberty student to ask, "Why does god allow suffering". That is 101 stuff even for a theist. Some longtime online atheists consider people who ask those types of questions "chewtoys".(J/K)

I do hope more of these events happen. But if you want more atheists to show up, I'd invite an atheist to have the podium too, but give pleanty of notice. This sounds like it was a rush job. And you are going to have to go outside Lynchburg to get more atheists. I'd try planning a debate in the DC area, that is only 4 hours driving time and there are tons more atheists in that area. 

 

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If you do plan more events

If you do plan more events in the Lynchburg area, do a better job advertising. News and Advance would probibly be more than willing to post an ad.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: As an

Brian37 wrote:

As an aside, I find it funny for a Liberty student to ask, "Why does god allow suffering". That is 101 stuff even for a theist. Some longtime online atheists consider people who ask those types of questions "chewtoys".(J/K)

 

Brian, the man that asked the "chewtoy" question was middle-aged and agreeable it was sophmoric. I think he was a "plant". 

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


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nullusdeus wrote: Brian37

nullusdeus wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

As an aside, I find it funny for a Liberty student to ask, "Why does god allow suffering". That is 101 stuff even for a theist. Some longtime online atheists consider people who ask those types of questions "chewtoys".(J/K)

 

Brian, the man that asked the "chewtoy" question was middle-aged and agreeable it was sophmoric. I think he was a "plant". 

I believed the man's sincerity at the time.  He posed the question as if he were looking for an answer for a friend who said "I cannot believe in a God who allows innocent people to suffer."  And trust me, there  were no "plant questions."  Caner showed up at the last second.  He didn't even know the man. 


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Hey guys, sorry I haven't

Hey guys, sorry I haven't spoken up. I've been swamped with stuff as this is the last week before finals. I am putting the video on my computer as we speak, but i'm only 8 minutes in and it's almost 2GB. I have to figure out how to shrink it. The video quality really isn't that good. I had to sit the camera down on a chair on a small stand, and there was a girl who sat infront and kinda leans into the frame. Overall, the debate was interesting. I did feel like I was one of three atheists there, and I was really nervous about asking a question. Anywho, I'll fill you guys in the moment i get this youtube stuff figured out.


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heyeverybody

heyeverybody wrote:

shelleymtjoy wrote:
I am not specifically interested in debating Cancer. However, as I mentioned to null over PMs, if there is a event in Lynchburg I could probably come but would need at least two weeks notice.

I just remembered. This was part of the problem. Atheists weren't willing to ask questions. As you will see in the video, Caner begged and begged. For these things to work we need atheists to ask questions, otherwise it will seem like the Liberty crowd is pitching softballs, which didn't happen. I hope the atheists who were with us have a little more faith that we aren't going to attack you. But seriously, we need you guys to be more vocal in these forums.

Just to clarify... I simply meant Cancer wasn't on my list of people I'd really go out of my way to meet/debate.  I didn't mean I wouldn't be an active participant - there are several people on here that could tell you IRL that I am quite vocal. 


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Medievalguy wrote: but i'm

Medievalguy wrote:
but i'm only 8 minutes in and it's almost 2GB. ...

Perhaps you could just give us just audio and maybe a few screen shots?


triften
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Medievalguy wrote: I am

Medievalguy wrote:
I am putting the video on my computer as we speak, but i'm only 8 minutes in and it's almost 2GB.

Divx? 320x240, 15fps... perhaps 64k on the audio?

You might even consider just the audio. That's what's most important for this, I think. Unless there's some craziness going on that we all have to see.

-Triften 


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Hillcat wrote: Hi

Hillcat wrote:

Hi Shelleymtjoy,

Nulles speaks very highly of you. I'm pleased to make your acquaintance.

Thanks.  I'm glad you've found the forums and as I've told all the other Lynchburg people, I look forward to meeting you all IRL sometime soon. 

heyeverybody wrote:

we plan on doing these things again, at other local colleges. 


I see Brian mentioned the DC area.  If you have the desire to come to NoVa, my group can book a room for this at GMU free.  Feel free to PM me with dates, etc. if you ever want to take us up on the offer.  I promise I could easily fill a room or five with DC area atheists.

Hillcat wrote:

B) You're making the assumption that we have questions for Mr. Caner.

Okay, I really only quoted that line because it's just plain hillarious.  

It seems this event was really, really advertised poorly and I'm not just referring to the lack of notice.  In another thread the multiple account holding Jason claimed:

Quote:

I did not tell anyone at Liberty about this event, it is not for them. ... This is for non-believers only.

 

  Then, as we can see from Hillcat's interpretation from local advertising it came off as being a  proselytizing to a room of theists.  No one has yet denied the attendance of 50 or so Liberty students and somehow it's hard for me to believe this level of attendance would result from lack of advertising at Liberty.  For someone that appreaciates 'authenticity' why do I get the feeling only Cancer knew what he was walking into.

I had a suspicion this would happen and I'm sorry to hear it did.  In order to at least make an attempt at a fair debate many decisions like this should be clairfied beforehand.

Medival Guy thanks for keeping us informed about the audio.  I'm personally in no rush to hear it  - I'm sure Cancer isn't going away anytime soon.


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I happened to have the

I happened to have the window open for this thread when the data was lost. Here's the missing posts:

12/7 9:13 AM

Hillcat wrote:

Hello Theist, Well, I must say that Mr. Caner does seem to have more integrity than most run-o'-the-mill evangelists/fundamentalists. Please let him know that I, for one, do recognize and respect his slightly more enlightened/progressive perspective. It must take some degree of courage to break, in any way, with the "party-line" at LU. The fact that Mr. Caner is willing, even marginally, to look into the mirror, and honestly see how the rest of humanity sees the radical X-ian right in the U.S. reveals some self-awareness. It's healthy,and a step in the right direction. I'll write more about the event, this afternoon, perhaps. Like Medi, I'm quite busy as well. I don't believe I'm interested in future events of this sort. I'm someone who does not see dialogue/interaction as productive, generally. I really only came to the event by invitation from one of my new friends on this forum. If the RRS is all about direct engagement with the opposition, then I doubt I'll be a very active participant. I attended the Caner event with the express intent of connecting with fellow nontheists, like Medieval Guy, and PopeofHeresy. It was great to make new friends! Theist, on a different subject...I am an active member in Americans United for Separation of Church and State. If you, your friends, or Mr. Caner are interested in protecting religious liberty from intrusion by the State/Gov't., then please check out the website: AU.org. If I could send Mr. Caner one message, it would be that the issue of Church/State separation IS "common ground" that we can share. It's the "key" to dialogue...at least with me. I'm only interested in interaction with those who are willing to stand strong in maintaining a Wall of Separation. The alternative is Theocracy...and I will never bow to a "X-ian Taliban". Hillcat

12/7 9:41 AM

Hillcat wrote:

Thanks Triften. Yes, I will look for this introductions area now. I'm thrilled to find an on-line community with whom I share a "consciousness of kind". What's more, I've started making local nontheist friends. Thanks for helping bear the torch of Freedom.

Hillcat

12/7 11:24 AM

Hillcat wrote:

Mr./Ms. Heyeverybody:

A) We're NOT the problem

B) You're making the assumption that we have questions for Mr. Caner.

C) You're making the assumption that we're interested in dialogue.

D) You're assuming that Mr. Caner has "answers".

E) You're suggesting that we want to be used by Mr. Caner, as a tool to help him sharpen his claws, (gain success in debating nontheists).

F) You're assuming we believe you when you say "softball" questions weren't planted.

G) You're assuming our participation in future "forums".

H) You're assuming we weren't attacked at the CVCC event. Imagine if you were a little bluebird, invited to a gathering of say...120 wolves in sheep's clothing. Then, the leader of the wolves "begs"..."Sing little bluebird! Sing!". I've never been to any public gathering where I felt more segregated, marginalized, and targeted. Luckily, I was able to meet other bluebirds.

I'm still shocked by the comments made to me by one of the LU Government students as I was leaving. It made me wonder whether there is any hope at all for this beautiful National experiment, called Democracy.

12/7 2:23 PM

Hillcat wrote:

Hi Shelleymtjoy,

Nulles speaks very highly of you. I'm pleased to make your acquaintance.

I haven't seen the replay of the CVCC/Caner event, but now that I have a few minutes, I'll give you my impressions:

I originally thought that I'd be attending a X-ian-only event, since, as I recall, the posted title for the event was something like "One question you'd like to ask an imaginary diety". As I mentioned earlier, I was there to connect with other nontheists, and to observe, (since I take classes at CVCC which is only a stone's throw away from the LU campus). It was only after I got to the College, that I learned the event was designed specifically to engage RRS members, and other freethinkers. I arrived, met up with Nulles, and then Medi, (who are both brilliant, courageous champions for Truth and Freedom of Conscience, by the way). Meanwhile, about 100+ LU students, (I suppose), were streaming in to the room. An LU student organizer greeted us, specifically, making certain we were clearly identified. Several other participants made conspicuous overtures of friendliness, making me feel even more "targeted". Medi politely asked one organizer if he could set up his camera. The crowd ate pizza, (I think), until Mr. Caner approached the podium. We were repeatedly asked to partake of the snack table, & we repeatedly declined.

Mr. Caner spoke at length about his background. He said that he was raised in one of the "Abrahamic" faiths, of mid-eastern origin, and then converted to yet another, in college. He mentioned that he has had experience in interaction with RRS folk in the past.

To his credit:

1)Mr. Caner is highly embarrassed by Televangelists

2)He seems to recognize the concept of "Post-X-ianity"

3)Says he hates "religion", and specifically the hypocritical image that X-ians have attained, worldwide

4) Says he dislikes phoneys, and appreciates "authenticity" in folks

5) Apparently seemed to say that he supports separation of church and state, and that whenever they intermingle, the church usually becomes a "whore" for the state

6) Admits that most ALL politicians on the LU campus have been Republican

7) Admits that in many ways, Falwell was the founder of the effort to tear down the Wall of Separation

8)Admits that faith should never be legislated

9)Says he believes that mutual respect is a worthy goal

10)Recognizes the wisdom of Thomas Paine

11) Suggests that LU may be changing, and may look quite different in 5 years

The rest of the presentation was the same bible-babble that makes one's eyes glaze over. The requisite references to texts, written by bronze-age man, centuries prior to the discovery that the Earth is round, were trotted out like a tired old workhorse.

The "heaviest" impression I got from the event was in looking around the room. Here I was, in a sea of young, potentially brilliant minds. But all I saw was darkness. They were like X-ian-rock zombies, held in an oily trance by some mythical leader from Narnia. It makes me weep for the future of our species...and our planet. I so wanted to say..."It's okay. You don't have to behave like a herd animal. We can think for ourselves now. Let's try standing upright, like homo sapiens."

After the event, a young woman came up and introduced herself to me. She said, "I heard your question regarding Separation of Church and State. I'm a Government student at LU, and in College, I've learned that Separation of Church and State was really not very important to our founding fathers. Mr. Caner mentioned Thomas Paine, but he wasn't a founder. You don't really need to be concerned with the Separation issue."

I tried to assure her that I disagreed with her perception of history; that I am less interested in what our "founders" intended, than in what we create as a society going forward; and that I've basically dedicated my life to maintaining a strong Wall of Separation. Sadly she wasn't interested in "hearing". She was clearly only concerned with "telling".

Little did I know how prescient my question for Mr. Caner was. As I got home that evening, I learned that my civic group...Americans United for Separation of Church and State, (AU.org), has asked the IRS to investigate Falwell's endorsement of Huckabee. That's why I love the AU. They DO the work! If not for the AU, who knows what sort of mischief would be occurring. They go straight to the source of unlawful behavior and LITIGATE. Then...they WIN!

Hillcat

12/7 9:43 PM

Hillcat wrote:

Perhaps the most chilling, errant, and manipulative comment that Mr. Caner made was when he TOLD the audience that "everyone prays to something". I so disagree. This proclamation reminds me of my 7th grade Social Studies teacher, when she told us that "spirituality" was a basic human need like food, clothing, and shelter. It's simply a myth...part of a hidden curriculum designed to keep the rich and powerful clergy in positions of high status. I'm so glad to live a factual, fulfilling, life of happiness, peace, and hope...withOUT the clutter of superstition.

12/8 1:01 PM

heyeverybody wrote:

I haven't checked this thread recently. I'll just address a few of the pertinent points. . .

1. Hillcat, while I respect your opinions, I think you misread our hospitality. Most of the people who approached you guys before the discussion were actually the event's planners. I'm sorry if you felt targeted, but we were only trying to show hospitality. I am glad you asked questions. The point of the event was to have intellectual discussion; I'm sorry if you were looking for something else.

2. I do not know what that "LU Government student" meant by her statement. I agree with you that the Church and State should be separate entities; however, you don't expect us to agree on everything do you? Would you say that my Christian values should not affect my political beliefs?

3. I believe Caner's argument was that the status quo believes in something. He wanted to know why you don't. Also, what if a Christian said, "I'm so glad to live a factual, fulfilling, life of happiness, peace, and hope...withOUT the clutter of superstition?" What would be your response?

12/8 5:20 PM

Medievalguy wrote:

Ok guys, so I have some bad news. The recording cuts off in the middle of him talking, but i do know that Nullus recorded the audio on his own device. I'm not sure if that one can upload to the internet. But the xtian kids there did say that Caner also had someone recording the event, so i'm going to go looking for it.

 

 

 

 

 


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Uh Oh...

Hi Folks,

I should let you know that when the information was lost, I was just finishing a very LENGTHY response to Mr./Ms. Hey...'s last post. When I went to click "post" I simply got a notice saying, "the post you are replying to no longer exists". So, I lost my response altogether.

Should I try to recreate it today, or would you all rather move on to new topics? It's upsetting to think I can't set the record straight regarding the Caner event, but I don't want to "beat a dead horse" either.

Furthermore, I lost my personal "introductions" thread, which is sad, since I was meeting such nice people, on a more personal basis, from around the world. Should I just set about recreating it?

Shell, thanks for your quick thinking, in saving the information you did. That would have meant hours of work down the drain. I can see why you're one of the pros here. Ha.

I'll proceed as instructed. I know...stuff happens.

Talk to you all soon...Hillcat


nullusdeus
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shelleymtjoy wrote: I

shelleymtjoy wrote:

I happened to have the window open for this thread when the data was lost. Here's the missing posts:


Shelly,

Do you have any idea why Hillcats posts were deleted? His post in Introductions was receiving a lot of responses. As a fellow Falwell basher, I hope they can be retrieved.

Thanks for saving these posts but I guess the only way to respond is to quote your quotes and address the sender.

 

 

 

 

 

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


nullusdeus
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Sorry for the last post. I

Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.


shelley
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  Hillcat, I would repost

 

Hillcat, I would repost your intro.  I'm sure people would take advantage of the chance to post again.  When I'm about to submit a rather long post, I generally select it, right click, and copy.  This way if it does disappear with a 'submit' you have it in the clipboard and it doesn't sap up the extra time of opening up another program and saving a draft.  This isn't just advice for this site but a general suggestion for anytime you have written extensively anywhere. 

Back to topic - I don't think we should beat this topic to death either but since theists have expressed the intention to recreate this event elsewhere I do think we should express what went wrong in order to create a more productive event in the future.