Obsession with morality (NOT are atheists/theists moral)

mrjonno
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Obsession with morality (NOT are atheists/theists moral)

What is this obsession that people (Americans?) have whether people are moral or not.?

 

Who cares is your bank manager/politican/teacher/tv star is a moral person.

I care do they do their job?, do they obey the law where its relevant to you/their job

If they break the law and its not directly relevant to you , its a police matter

Now whether your friends are a 'nice' person is important but for most other people so what.

 

The fact is most atheists obey the law, most religious people obey the law (sure their holy books encourage murder/child abuse/rape and every other dispicable crime but most religious people ignore that).

 

In other words fuck morality it aint anyone business

 

Pastafaranian with lose moral values (well I try)

 

 

 

 


LosingStreak06
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mrjonno wrote: Who cares

mrjonno wrote:

Who cares is your bank manager/politican/teacher/tv star is a moral person.

I care do they do their job?, do they obey the law where its relevant to you/their job

Well, I would think that their morals would tend to shape the answers to that question. You seem to be under the impression that morals only extend to hot-button issues like abortion or same-sex marriage, or things of that nature. On the contrary, morals are what make us who we are. They guide our decisions, they define us as people far more than our job titles, or the laws we uphold (indeed, without morals, we wouldn't have laws to uphold.)

So morals are damn important. Granted, I'll give you that you are correct in that we often worry about peoples morals in areas that are irrelevant. For example, we really oughtn't care what the local dentist thinks about same-sex marriages (unless of course, like me, your dentist happens to be gay, in which it could be considered a relevant issue).

But the fact of the matter is, people like their own personal morals. A lot, in fact. Most of the people who make a huge outcry about morals are parents who are concerned about what they are exposing their children to, as it is fairly common knowledge how impressionable children are.

 

 

P.S. your god sucks and is a horrible excuse for a farcical deity. Mine is much better. 


NarcolepticSun
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Hmm... now is the time

Hmm... now is the time where I come and put in my two cents... and let everyone here know what a prick I am...

 Morality is nothing more than a simple methodology by which someone will live their life. In short this method is a list of rules based on the person's personal judgments of what is right and wrong.

 Contrasting this to what I live by (instead of morality) - i live by a code of honor. Instead of having a rediculous list of rules... i look at every scenario individually and judge, in its own contexts, whether it is honorable or not.

 For me, I view morality as inferior methodology for living life that far too many people foolishly take as granted.


Tomcat
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mrjonno wrote:What is

mrjonno wrote:

What is this obsession that people (Americans?) have whether people are moral or not.?

It's a good sign that you asked this question.  You are hot on the trail of something significant, most definately.  I hear this a lot from atheists who are bewildered by many theist's very first respnoses upon learning you're an atheist: "How can you be a moral person?"

I was once exactly one of these seemingly excessively morally-concerned people (and stil am, but to a much lesser extent then I used to be.) I don't seem to have the motivation to give the fullest, most illustrative explanation possible, but I think it's important enought for me to at least outline what's going on here.

 Why such concern with morality? Immoral actions generally are so because they make others feel bad;> We find this out ourselves early in childhood;> Relational/parental/familial problems can be frequent for some childhoods, or more intensly experienced by different children;> this causes trauma/emotional pain for the child, and somehow they must cope, or [read:IMPORTANT] learn to avoid it;> primary motivator here is fear, fear of unpleasant feelings/experiences (fear is a crucial emotion surrounding god belief);> Children will seek to avoid fearful experiences, many times making "secret" vows with themselves that if they can just control their behaviors/feelingsthey can lessen fearful experiences (adults do this too);> many (bad) parents do not define emotional boundries for their children, nor even understand emotional boundries themselves;> in an attempt to define boundries (out of often deathly fear of many traumatic chilldhood experiences), people may become obsessively concerned with morals;> after all, morals are basically a definition of boundries;> children (even adults)often wish-think that they can create world for themselves that erases bad experiences totally [read: god, religion];> thus, if you attack these ideas/wishthoughts, you in effect attack much more.  You attack security blanket, and from a very primal sense, to the theist seem to be wishing these traumatic past experiences and bad feelings upon them;> therefore you = bad man, don't make me scared as shit my parents are gonna fucking fight again

Help at all? Please ask me questions if you need to

[EDIT:] Learn to think like a child, and you will learn to think like a theist

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


mrjonno
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Tomcat wrote: mrjonno

Tomcat wrote:
mrjonno wrote:

What is this obsession that people (Americans?) have whether people are moral or not.?

 Why such concern with morality? Immoral actions generally are so because they make others feel bad;>

 

But there is no law that says you cannot make others feel bad, there are laws against assault ,murder threeatning behaviour etc but not making them feel bad and nor should there be.

 

The law states what the range of acceptable behaviour is, note its a range of behaviour not 'this is acceptable behaviour'

 I simply have on interest in what a strangers moral behaviour is as long as it is legal, it only becomes my concern when it effects me


LosingStreak06
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NarcolepticSun

NarcolepticSun wrote:

Hmm... now is the time where I come and put in my two cents... and let everyone here know what a prick I am...

Morality is nothing more than a simple methodology by which someone will live their life. In short this method is a list of rules based on the person's personal judgments of what is right and wrong.

Contrasting this to what I live by (instead of morality) - i live by a code of honor. Instead of having a rediculous list of rules... i look at every scenario individually and judge, in its own contexts, whether it is honorable or not.

For me, I view morality as inferior methodology for living life that far too many people foolishly take as granted.

That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Your little "code of honor" is really just an overglorified morality. First, you make a strawman redefinition of morality itself, and then claim that you do something different and superior, when actually you do the same thing everyone else does.

Are you absolutely sure you aren't religious? Because you could have fooled me.


Hambydammit
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Tomcat wrote: Learn to

Tomcat wrote:
Learn to think like a child, and you will learn to think like a theist

Damn, Tomcat!  My brain just went flip.  I used to hear all the time that you needed to have 'faith as a child' to believe in Jesus.  This was coming from the Christians, of course.

It just flipped my brain over, because when I first read this quote, I thought, 'Damn!  That's true, but it's really going to upset a lot of theists to be called immature.'

Then I thought about it and realized that many would not even know they should be insulted by that statement!  They'd take it as a compliment!

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Tomcat
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Hambydammit wrote: Tomcat

Hambydammit wrote:

Tomcat wrote:
Learn to think like a child, and you will learn to think like a theist

Damn, Tomcat! My brain just went flip. I used to hear all the time that you needed to have 'faith as a child' to believe in Jesus. This was coming from the Christians, of course.

It just flipped my brain over, because when I first read this quote, I thought, 'Damn! That's true, but it's really going to upset a lot of theists to be called immature.'

Then I thought about it and realized that many would not even know they should be insulted by that statement! They'd take it as a compliment!

 

 

Yea!  It's pretty wild, huh? All people carry parts of themselves as children into adulthood, and seek to comfort and adore those vulnerale places.

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


LosingStreak06
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Hambydammit wrote: Tomcat

Hambydammit wrote:

Tomcat wrote:
Learn to think like a child, and you will learn to think like a theist

Damn, Tomcat! My brain just went flip. I used to hear all the time that you needed to have 'faith as a child' to believe in Jesus. This was coming from the Christians, of course.

It just flipped my brain over, because when I first read this quote, I thought, 'Damn! That's true, but it's really going to upset a lot of theists to be called immature.'

Then I thought about it and realized that many would not even know they should be insulted by that statement! They'd take it as a compliment!

 

You are absolutely correct. I'm not offended at all. There is nothing inherently wrong with being childish. It's similar to suggesting that I should be offended by being told that I think like a Black person. Some people (racists) would expect me to be insulted at such a comment. However, I happen to like black people. And I also happen to think that kids are pretty neat too. As a quote I once read says, "getting old doesn't mean you have to grow up." Do all theists suffer from this form of puer aeternus? I don't know, but I do know that I don't consider it suffering at all. And I don't see why I should.


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LosingStreak06

LosingStreak06 wrote:
Hambydammit wrote:

Tomcat wrote:
Learn to think like a child, and you will learn to think like a theist

Damn, Tomcat! My brain just went flip. I used to hear all the time that you needed to have 'faith as a child' to believe in Jesus. This was coming from the Christians, of course.

It just flipped my brain over, because when I first read this quote, I thought, 'Damn! That's true, but it's really going to upset a lot of theists to be called immature.'

Then I thought about it and realized that many would not even know they should be insulted by that statement! They'd take it as a compliment!

 

You are absolutely correct. I'm not offended at all. There is nothing inherently wrong with being childish. It's similar to suggesting that I should be offended by being told that I think like a Black person. Some people (racists) would expect me to be insulted at such a comment. However, I happen to like black people. And I also happen to think that kids are pretty neat too. As a quote I once read says, "getting old doesn't mean you have to grow up." Do all theists suffer from this form of puer aeternus? I don't know, but I do know that I don't consider it suffering at all. And I don't see why I should.

UGH!  Jesus Christ on a stick, that is really corny.  Yes, kids have their positive attributes, in that they aren't usually as self-conscious or bound by conventions as adults are, but come on, that "child at heart" business is just lame.  Children are excellent at taking what they want, at having no regard for the desires of others, having no sense of tact, at over-simplifying complex issues, at misunderstanding the world as it is, at openly mocking people who are different.  I'm not saying all kids do these things, but they are far more prone to do it than adults (one would hope).  There's nothing wrong with kids doing it, because they're kids!  They'll grow out of it.  Why anyone would be proud of being juvenile and of learning nothing from their lives' experiences is beyond me.  I'm not saying you're necessarily immature at all, since I don't know you, but saying that there's nothing wrong with a grown-up being childish is really silly. 

And it's weird to say "I like black people" or "I like kids."  Some of both parties are assholes, just as with every other group of people.  You don't have to like assholes to be politically correct.

So ends my bizarre rant.


totus_tuus
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What is morality other than

What is morality other than unwritten rules which allow humans to live together in society in a manner which minimizes the negative impact and accentuates the positive influence we have on one another.

Laws are simply the specification and definition of some moral precepts into written form so that they are enforceable by human governing bodies.

I love the semantic games some play in an effort to downplay conventional morality by changing the name to something even more poorly defined like "honor". 

Somewhat  more baffling is the effort some folks go through to excuse the negative impact they have on others by insisting that morality is a subjective and personal matter, rather than one set of views applicable to all humans as the cost of living in community.

"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II