What to do if it's true

danicberti
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What to do if it's true

There are here people trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

I was taking a look at that site www.blasphemychallenge.com and I foud many people recording their videos with blasphemy about the Holy Spirit.

It's not a big deal but if what the bible say is true?

Because is difficult to prove about something that you don't see.

Let's think about ET; many people does't believe that it exist because nobody see that. But how can we prove if it exist or not?

 


pariahjane
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danicberti wrote:

danicberti wrote:

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

danicberti wrote:
here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


JCE
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danicberti wrote: If life

danicberti wrote:

If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry

why people miss someone?

why people die?

why people fall in love?

 

Most of these are all natural, normal responses that are triggered by the brain.  People die because their bodies either wear out over time, disease takes over or an accident happens.  Again, normal, natural occurances.  Worship of a supernatural being is not natural. 

Throughout this entire thread you have resorted to emotional statements which do nothing to support your beliefs.  If you want to believe in something because it makes you feel better, that is fine.  However, all of the arguments you have made are false.  The examples you have cited (wind, sadness, love, etc.) actually can be measured scientifically and explained as being real occurances.  Your god cannot.   


danicberti
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biological response?Sou you

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love,  never more  you can control it?

 

The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

 By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

 

If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

 

If life is rational

Why the science can't  discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive?

 


danicberti
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pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

danicberti wrote:
here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

 

Whow....

you say that I'm not listening anything about others, but you don't answer my question for you.
Irespect if you don't want

I'm tryng to understand your mind this is the reazon that I'm here

 

you sad

aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

I'm not trying prove God's existence, I'm trying to ask you who control the life, the world and any other things. you know?

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 


Vorax
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danicberti wrote: If life

danicberti wrote:

If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry

why people miss someone?

why people die?

why people fall in love?

 

CRY: People cry because of chemical and neurological activity in our brain based on either physical stresses or emotional reactions

MISS PEOPLE: People miss others because we are social creatures and like all social creatures we form bonds with others of our species (and even non-species such as bonds between pets and owners).  Or evolutionary history made it advantageous to work together as groups and to look after those within our groups.  In other words, by working together we improve our chances of survival, thus we form bonds between each other. 

 DIE:  People die because we are biochemical machines just like all animals.  It is an evolutionary necessity that we die so as to not consume the resources of our offspring.  Our bodies have encoded within our genes a genetic information that will cause our bodies to fail regardless of physical trauma - we age.

LOVE:  Love between people is very related to why we miss people.  It is an evolutionary response to the need for us to work together to improve our chances of survival.  Love between a male and female (or male/male, female/female) is a chemically measurable event in the brain.  Our bodies produce a chemical when we are in love and will continue to produce it for a couple of years as long as we are with the person who triggers it - this drug makes us elated when we see our partners, we get a kind of high from it.  It is this high that we call "love".  It's effects are not unlike that of some narcotics. This is why it's difficult to seperate from somone we love, we are actually having a case of withdrawl when we do.

"All it would take to kill God is one meteorite a half mile across - think about why." - Vorax

Visit my blog on Atheism: Cerebral Thinking for some more food for intelligent thought.


pariahjane
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
[

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

Whow....

you say that I'm not listening anything about others, but you don't answer my question for you.
Irespect if you don't want

I'm tryng to understand your mind this is the reazon that I'm here

you sad

aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

I'm not trying prove God's existence, I'm trying to ask you who control the life, the world and any other things. you know?

Excuse me? I'm sad? And you make no sense. You asked why we can't control when we die and I answered you. If you don't like the answer, I'm afraid that is your problem and not mine.

And no, of course I don't know what controls everything. We only have a certain amount of understanding with regard to the natural world. Do you know who controls everything?

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


JCE
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

danicberti wrote:
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

Falling in love has more to do with pheromones than emotion.

 

danicberti wrote:
The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

Life is rational. If your isn't, then you should start examining the reasons why.

danicberti wrote:
By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

I am assuming you mean "rapists"

danicberti wrote:
why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

Again, brain activity. Psychopathic behavior and depression are medical conditions. Not very pleasant ones, but they are not irrational.

 

danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

Who says they can't? Try doing some research on this subject instead of spewing out appeals to emotion.

 

danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive?

Medical science has made significant strides in all of these areas. Again, try some research. Please keep in mind that your god cannot do any of these things either.


BGH
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

 

The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

 

If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

 

If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive? 

You seriously need to read a little bit more about the arguments against theism and formulate your posistion a little better before you come here spewing the same argument from emotion position we have heard and refuted a million times. 


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jce wrote: danicberti

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

danicberti wrote:
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

Falling in love has more to do with pheromones than emotion.

 

danicberti wrote:
The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

Life is rational. If your isn't, then you should start examining the reasons why.

danicberti wrote:
By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

I am assuming you mean "rapists"

danicberti wrote:
why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

Again, brain activity. Psychopathic behavior and depression are medical conditions. Not very pleasant ones, but they are not irrational.

 

danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

Who says they can't? Try doing some research on this subject instead of spewing out appeals to emotion.

 

danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive?

Medical science has made significant strides in all of these areas. Again, try some research. Please keep in mind that your god cannot do any of these things either.

I think what's hanging her up is that death is also a rational process. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


danicberti
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yes you'rs right

BGH wrote:
danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

 

The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

 

If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

 

If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive? 

You seriously need to read a little bit more about the arguments against theism and formulate your posistion a little better before you come here spewing the same argument from emotion position we have heard and refuted a million times. 

 

I need to read more and more to find the answer, but maybe it's my problem to express my question.
I'll try to recreat it.

when everyone says, "people are sociable"

emotions are caused by biological things and any other chemical things I ask:

Where everything comes from
How it has been made in the human.

everythig appears from nothing?

the monkey suffer a evolution, then we are human now, and where monkey comes from?

How could this evolution change feelings?

 

I mean:

 

Where started every feelings and hormonys that causes every emotions in a human?

I'm still not talking about creationsm and evolution theory ok?


danicberti
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pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
[

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

Whow....

you say that I'm not listening anything about others, but you don't answer my question for you.
Irespect if you don't want

I'm tryng to understand your mind this is the reazon that I'm here

you sad

aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

I'm not trying prove God's existence, I'm trying to ask you who control the life, the world and any other things. you know?

Excuse me? I'm sad? And you make no sense. You asked why we can't control when we die and I answered you. If you don't like the answer, I'm afraid that is your problem and not mine.

And no, of course I don't know what controls everything. We only have a certain amount of understanding with regard to the natural world. Do you know who controls everything?

 

Before answer you I told you sad, but it was a tipewrite misteke, I'm so sorry. I mean "said" no "Sad"

I'm really sorry.

 

Now, going on...

If you don't know what or Who controls everything you can't prove that God doesn't exist.

[MOD EDIT - fixes quotes] 


Vorax
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danicberti wrote:

danicberti wrote:

Now, going on...

If you don't know what or Who controls everything you can't prove that God doesn't exist.

No one is trying to prove god doesn't exist, we (atheists) are simply saying there is no evidence god exists. Science has yet to uncover anything that could only be explained by "god did it".

Most of us would believe in god if anyone showed real evidence god exists. Crying, love, etc. is not evidence.  These are chemical reactions in our brains that have evolved within the human genome because they are beneficial for our survival as individuals.

"All it would take to kill God is one meteorite a half mile across - think about why." - Vorax

Visit my blog on Atheism: Cerebral Thinking for some more food for intelligent thought.


pariahjane
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

Whow....

you say that I'm not listening anything about others, but you don't answer my question for you.
Irespect if you don't want

I'm tryng to understand your mind this is the reazon that I'm here

you sad

aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

I'm not trying prove God's existence, I'm trying to ask you who control the life, the world and any other things. you know?

Excuse me? I'm sad? And you make no sense. You asked why we can't control when we die and I answered you. If you don't like the answer, I'm afraid that is your problem and not mine.

And no, of course I don't know what controls everything. We only have a certain amount of understanding with regard to the natural world. Do you know who controls everything?

Before answer you I told you sad, but it was a tipewrite misteke, I'm so sorry. I mean "said" no "Sad"

I'm really sorry.

Now, going on...

If you don't know what or Who controls everything you can't prove that God doesn't exist.

Ok, that's fine. Thanks.

I'm not trying to prove god doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the person who claims that god does exist.

I can't prove a claim that I'm not making.

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]

NOTE:  please use the preview comment button before posting and fix quotes prior to submitting.  Thank you. 

 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


danicberti
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jce wrote:

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

So if you say yes, you never be sad, because anyone wish be sad anytime right? So if a very closer person die, you will continous happy because you can control your feelings right?

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

Falling in love has more to do with pheromones than emotion.

well it doens't happen about love between mother and doughter it's not only sexual feelings between man and woman. I mean about parents, friends etc

 

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

Life is rational. If your isn't, then you should start examining the reasons why.

are you sure? you never took a decision when you was nervous or exited, I mean you always had control about everything never did impulsive?

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
By the way. let me continous

 

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

I am assuming you mean "rapists"

I'm sorry my poor english. I did a mistake

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

Again, brain activity. Psychopathic behavior and depression are medical conditions. Not very pleasant ones, but they are not irrational.

What control your brain activity?
What cause a psycopathic behavior?

 

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

Who says they can't? Try doing some research on this subject instead of spewing out appeals to emotion.


they just explain the hormons, never what causes that.

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:
If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive?

Medical science has made significant strides in all of these areas. Again, try some research. Please keep in mind that your god cannot do any of these things either.

significant strides isn't solution right?

My God can do much more than it.

[MOD EDIT - fixed a lot of quotes]


danicberti
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Vorax wrote: danicberti

Vorax wrote:
danicberti wrote:

If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry

why people miss someone?

why people die?

why people fall in love?

 

CRY: People cry because of chemical and neurological activity in our brain based on either physical stresses or emotional reactions

MISS PEOPLE: People miss others because we are social creatures and like all social creatures we form bonds with others of our species (and even non-species such as bonds between pets and owners).  Or evolutionary history made it advantageous to work together as groups and to look after those within our groups.  In other words, by working together we improve our chances of survival, thus we form bonds between each other. 

 DIE:  People die because we are biochemical machines just like all animals.  It is an evolutionary necessity that we die so as to not consume the resources of our offspring.  Our bodies have encoded within our genes a genetic information that will cause our bodies to fail regardless of physical trauma - we age.

LOVE:  Love between people is very related to why we miss people.  It is an evolutionary response to the need for us to work together to improve our chances of survival.  Love between a male and female (or male/male, female/female) is a chemically measurable event in the brain.  Our bodies produce a chemical when we are in love and will continue to produce it for a couple of years as long as we are with the person who triggers it - this drug makes us elated when we see our partners, we get a kind of high from it.  It is this high that we call "love".  It's effects are not unlike that of some narcotics. This is why it's difficult to seperate from somone we love, we are actually having a case of withdrawl when we do.

 

Very good explanation, but can you explain who, or what causes everything that you said?


Vorax
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danicberti wrote: Vorax

danicberti wrote:
Vorax wrote:
danicberti wrote:

If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry

why people miss someone?

why people die?

why people fall in love?

 

CRY: People cry because of chemical and neurological activity in our brain based on either physical stresses or emotional reactions

MISS PEOPLE: People miss others because we are social creatures and like all social creatures we form bonds with others of our species (and even non-species such as bonds between pets and owners). Or evolutionary history made it advantageous to work together as groups and to look after those within our groups. In other words, by working together we improve our chances of survival, thus we form bonds between each other.

DIE: People die because we are biochemical machines just like all animals. It is an evolutionary necessity that we die so as to not consume the resources of our offspring. Our bodies have encoded within our genes a genetic information that will cause our bodies to fail regardless of physical trauma - we age.

LOVE: Love between people is very related to why we miss people. It is an evolutionary response to the need for us to work together to improve our chances of survival. Love between a male and female (or male/male, female/female) is a chemically measurable event in the brain. Our bodies produce a chemical when we are in love and will continue to produce it for a couple of years as long as we are with the person who triggers it - this drug makes us elated when we see our partners, we get a kind of high from it. It is this high that we call "love". It's effects are not unlike that of some narcotics. This is why it's difficult to seperate from somone we love, we are actually having a case of withdrawl when we do.

 

Very good explanation, but can you explain who, or what causes everything that you said?

The laws of physics.

Physics can explain everything that happens in our brains.  We don't know all the details yet, but we know that when we look at any particular piece of activity in the brain and observe it, we see nothing defying the laws of physics.

"All it would take to kill God is one meteorite a half mile across - think about why." - Vorax

Visit my blog on Atheism: Cerebral Thinking for some more food for intelligent thought.


danicberti
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Vorax wrote: danicberti

Vorax wrote:
danicberti wrote:
Vorax wrote:
danicberti wrote:

If life is rational, why people get sad?
why people cry

why people miss someone?

why people die?

why people fall in love?

 

CRY: People cry because of chemical and neurological activity in our brain based on either physical stresses or emotional reactions

MISS PEOPLE: People miss others because we are social creatures and like all social creatures we form bonds with others of our species (and even non-species such as bonds between pets and owners). Or evolutionary history made it advantageous to work together as groups and to look after those within our groups. In other words, by working together we improve our chances of survival, thus we form bonds between each other.

DIE: People die because we are biochemical machines just like all animals. It is an evolutionary necessity that we die so as to not consume the resources of our offspring. Our bodies have encoded within our genes a genetic information that will cause our bodies to fail regardless of physical trauma - we age.

LOVE: Love between people is very related to why we miss people. It is an evolutionary response to the need for us to work together to improve our chances of survival. Love between a male and female (or male/male, female/female) is a chemically measurable event in the brain. Our bodies produce a chemical when we are in love and will continue to produce it for a couple of years as long as we are with the person who triggers it - this drug makes us elated when we see our partners, we get a kind of high from it. It is this high that we call "love". It's effects are not unlike that of some narcotics. This is why it's difficult to seperate from somone we love, we are actually having a case of withdrawl when we do.

 

Very good explanation, but can you explain who, or what causes everything that you said?

The laws of physics.

Physics can explain everything that happens in our brains.  We don't know all the details yet, but we know that when we look at any particular piece of activity in the brain and observe it, we see nothing defying the laws of physics.

You have a little mistake.

Physics doesn't prove everything.. How can I know it?
the doens't have the answer why carbon 14 (C14) change the material things when the temperature changed.

For example.
if they find a stone who seem 1 thousand year, they put (it probably have 1 thousand year) because it depends on the wheather modification. Hot, cold, rain, sun....

this natural phenomena can change the C14 age.
I'm sure that you have alread read it.

So, I go on....

part of brai is actived... and make emotion, but what can active the emotion? you know? Can you control it?


Magus
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danicberti wrote: I need

danicberti wrote:

I need to read more and more to find the answer, but maybe it's my problem to express my question.
I'll try to recreat it.

when everyone says, "people are sociable"

emotions are caused by biological things and any other chemical things I ask: 

Where everything comes from

The only answer is we don't, know and neither do you.  Saying god did it is a cop out. You have no evidence or scientific research to back up this absurd claim.  I could ask you where god came from. If you think our universe needs a creator, why doesn't your god?

danicberti wrote:
 


How it has been made in the human.

everythig appears from nothing?

Evolution created the human and all other living organism (except the first organism that was abiogenisis).  What makes you think nothing is a natural state of the universe?  The only answer is we don't know where it came from (yet).  Stop jumping to god conclusions without evidence.  We have theories of where the universe came from.  We need to test them.

danicberti wrote:
 

 

the monkey suffer a evolution, then we are human now, and where monkey comes from?

How could this evolution change feelings?

This statement alone show me your lack of education in the field of evolution. You really need to do some research into evolution before this.  We didn't evolve from monkeys, we and monkeys share a common ancester.  Think if it like branches of a tree we are one of the branches and monkeys are another.  The second statement reminds me of.  Wow that seems complex and I don't understand it so I won't try to understand it and instead say magic man did it.  You don't understand evolution, do some research.  Evolution explains this, feelings that helped the species survive made it to next generation simply by helping the species survive to the point in which it could breed.  

danicberti wrote:
 

   

I mean:

Where started every feelings and hormonys that causes every emotions in a human?

I'm still not talking about creationsm and evolution theory ok?

Its just chemicals in the brain.

Sounds made up...
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pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
pariahjane wrote:
danicberti wrote:
[

you can't decide it. People who try for example kill theirselves, and it doesn't work, who will leave it alive?

If someone tried to kill themself and failed, then that just means they didn't do a good job of killing themself. Again, it provides no proof of god.

here, there are a policeman, that shoot a gun in his own head, And didn't died, He is alive.
You think shoot in his head isn't a good job?

well you didn't answered me

I most certainly did answer you. This is just becoming silly. You're not listening to what others are trying to say to you so this whole conversation is becoming moot.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the fact that we don't have control over every aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

Whow....

you say that I'm not listening anything about others, but you don't answer my question for you.
Irespect if you don't want

I'm tryng to understand your mind this is the reazon that I'm here

you sad

aspect of our lives does not provide proof of god's existence.

I'm not trying prove God's existence, I'm trying to ask you who control the life, the world and any other things. you know?

Excuse me? I'm sad? And you make no sense. You asked why we can't control when we die and I answered you. If you don't like the answer, I'm afraid that is your problem and not mine.

And no, of course I don't know what controls everything. We only have a certain amount of understanding with regard to the natural world. Do you know who controls everything?

Before answer you I told you sad, but it was a tipewrite misteke, I'm so sorry. I mean "said" no "Sad"

I'm really sorry.

Now, going on...

If you don't know what or Who controls everything you can't prove that God doesn't exist.

Ok, that's fine. Thanks.

I'm not trying to prove god doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the person who claims that god does exist.

I can't prove a claim that I'm not making.

 

ok.

I'll give you two poor examples ok?

Here in Brazil there is a tipical tropical fruit called açaí. Did you see it in other post?

You don't see it. you never tasted it. So I tell you. Oh Açai juice with banana is delicious.

You can't say, no it's not, or no it doesn't exist just because you never see or because you never tasted.

But I can say. Why I can?

Because I've alread tasted it!!! I know it.

How can you get sure about something that you never try?

Example 2º

I can tell you.

Oh, I'm a beautiful an nice girl.

You never saw me, but you can't say that I didn't exist.

Because you are chatting with me.

This is God.

I didn't see him, but I know that he exist because I can talk with him and He isn't a imagination friend.

 

 [MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]


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Magus wrote: danicberti

Magus wrote:
danicberti wrote:

I need to read more and more to find the answer, but maybe it's my problem to express my question.
I'll try to recreat it.

when everyone says, "people are sociable"

emotions are caused by biological things and any other chemical things I ask: 

Where everything comes from

The only answer is we don't, know and neither do you.  Saying god did it is a cop out. You have no evidence or scientific research to back up this absurd claim.  I could ask you where god came from. If you think our universe needs a creator, why doesn't your god?

danicberti wrote:
 


How it has been made in the human.

everythig appears from nothing?

Evolution created the human and all other living organism (except the first organism that was abiogenisis).  What makes you think nothing is a natural state of the universe?  The only answer is we don't know where it came from (yet).  Stop jumping to god conclusions without evidence.  We have theories of where the universe came from.  We need to test them.

danicberti wrote:
 

 

the monkey suffer a evolution, then we are human now, and where monkey comes from?

How could this evolution change feelings?

This statement alone show me your lack of education in the field of evolution. You really need to do some research into evolution before this.  We didn't evolve from monkeys, we and monkeys share a common ancester.  Think if it like branches of a tree we are one of the branches and monkeys are another.  The second statement reminds me of.  Wow that seems complex and I don't understand it so I won't try to understand it and instead say magic man did it.  You don't understand evolution, do some research.  Evolution explains this, feelings that helped the species survive made it to next generation simply by helping the species survive to the point in which it could breed.  

danicberti wrote:
 

   

I mean:

Where started every feelings and hormonys that causes every emotions in a human?

I'm still not talking about creationsm and evolution theory ok?

Its just chemicals in the brain.

But, How does it work? what make the phisics work?


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danicberti wrote: But, How

danicberti wrote:

But, How does it work? what make the phisics work?

I could ask you the same about your god.  What make god work?  It obviously according to you god created physics, so it cannot rely on them to work.  Like I asked before, what created your god? What governs its existance?  If you say nothing governs its existance, why do you assume something has to govern the laws of physics? 

Real answer is we don't know yet.  But your answer to the unknow is to say magic man did it.  So you try to explain away something we don't understand with something we don't have evidence for and also have no understanding of. 

We know the laws exists we can test them.  The same cannot be said about your god.

Sounds made up...
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Ok Dani, here are some

Ok Dani, here are some questions for you:

 What is wrong with just saying 'We don't know'?  Why is it necessary to plug god into the places that human knowledge has not yet filled?  At one time the majority of the population thought the earth was flat.  Now we know that it is not flat.  It is, therefore, logical to assume that the answers to your questions will be found in time.  There is no need to fill in the blanks with 'god'.


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Magus wrote: danicberti

Magus wrote:
danicberti wrote:

But, How does it work? what make the phisics work?

I could ask you the same about your god.  What make god work?  It obviously according to you god created physics, so it cannot rely on them to work.  Like I asked before, what created your god? What governs its existance?  If you say nothing governs its existance, why do you assume something has to govern the laws of physics? 

Real answer is we don't know yet.  But your answer to the unknow is to say magic man did it.  So you try to explain away something we don't understand with something we don't have evidence for and also have no understanding of. 

We know the laws exists we can test them.  The same cannot be said about your god.

you can test the laws but the law can fail right?

so.... tell me.
If I don't have evidence? where is yours?

Can you prove what you say?
neighter the science can, that's ther reazon that they call theory.

theory is something that you can't prove.

 


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jce wrote: Ok Dani, here

jce wrote:

Ok Dani, here are some questions for you:

 What is wrong with just saying 'We don't know'?  Why is it necessary to plug god into the places that human knowledge has not yet filled?  At one time the majority of the population thought the earth was flat.  Now we know that it is not flat.  It is, therefore, logical to assume that the answers to your questions will be found in time.  There is no need to fill in the blanks with 'god'.

 

There is no problem to say: I don't know.
So if you don't know you cant say with sure, That God Doesn't exist right because you don't have the answer.

When you say for sure it doesn't exist normally you have all the answer to confirm it.
If miss some answere about that you can't say it, you need to try find the answer. Do you agree?

I don't put God in every blank space. I say for you, and all group He exist.

If someone believe or not, it's one thing, Now prove 2+2, you should have all the answer to confirm that.

As I told you the example of açaí and about myself.

 

 


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danicberti wrote: Magus

danicberti wrote:
Magus wrote:
danicberti wrote:

But, How does it work? what make the phisics work?

I could ask you the same about your god. What make god work? It obviously according to you god created physics, so it cannot rely on them to work. Like I asked before, what created your god? What governs its existance? If you say nothing governs its existance, why do you assume something has to govern the laws of physics?

Real answer is we don't know yet. But your answer to the unknow is to say magic man did it. So you try to explain away something we don't understand with something we don't have evidence for and also have no understanding of.

We know the laws exists we can test them. The same cannot be said about your god.

you can test the laws but the law can fail right?

so.... tell me.
If I don't have evidence? where is yours?

Can you prove what you say?
neighter the science can, that's ther reazon that they call theory.

theory is something that you can't prove.

 

A Theory in science is, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world.  Laymans terms, a mere conjecture, or guess. We are talking about science and you are using the wrong defintion.

The laws of physics have not failed.  Our understanding of them has, but the laws have not.  The laws have not failed.

What evidence are you asking about? Evidence for the laws of physics?

 

Sounds made up...
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danicberti wrote:Can you

danicberti wrote:

Can you prove what you say?
neighter the science can, that's ther reazon that they call theory.

theory is something that you can't prove.

Theory

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word theory has a number of distinct meanings in different fields of knowledge, depending on their methodologies and the context of discussion.

In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them. In this usage, the word is synonymous with hypothesis.

In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and a theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the general theory of relativity.

You are talking about common usage, the other posters are using the scientific one.


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danicberti wrote: jce

danicberti wrote:
jce wrote:

Ok Dani, here are some questions for you:

What is wrong with just saying 'We don't know'? Why is it necessary to plug god into the places that human knowledge has not yet filled? At one time the majority of the population thought the earth was flat. Now we know that it is not flat. It is, therefore, logical to assume that the answers to your questions will be found in time. There is no need to fill in the blanks with 'god'.

 

There is no problem to say: I don't know.
So if you don't know you cant say with sure, That God Doesn't exist right because you don't have the answer.

When you say for sure it doesn't exist normally you have all the answer to confirm it.
If miss some answere about that you can't say it, you need to try find the answer. Do you agree?

I don't put God in every blank space. I say for you, and all group He exist.

If someone believe or not, it's one thing, Now prove 2+2, you should have all the answer to confirm that.

As I told you the example of açaí and about myself.

 

You just made another misconceptions.  We do not state that GOD DOESN'T EXISTS. We are saying we don't have evidence or proof for god, so we are not going to believe it.   You are trying to fit our position to your presumption of what we are and its not true.  We don't make a positive claim that god doesn't exist, we are simply saying that there isn't sufficient, reliable, verifiable evidence for a Magic man who created everything.   I don't have you believe you about the açaí, in fact I am allowed to not believe you.  Once you present evidence of its existance, and I still don't believe you then I am irrational.   Once again we are not making a positive claim. You are.  You said açaí exists so present them. You say god exists so present it.  If you don't have the evidence then are irrational in believing it.

Sounds made up...
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danicberti wrote: Brian37

danicberti wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

Follow the pattern in the sentances below, I'll start off with a "blank" in the first. Pay attention to the pattern, not the names.

 

1. How do you know "blank" does not exist?

2. How do you know "Allah" does not exist?

3. How do you know "Yahwey" does not exist?

5. How do you know "Vishnu" does not exist?

6. How do you know "Isis" does not exist?

7. How do you know "Thor" does not exist?

 

By following the pattern it is easy to see that anyone can make a claim. So it is absurd to default to something existing just because someone claimed it, otherwise you would have to litterally believe in all those claims above.

The point of showing you that pattern is to demonstrate the fallacy you are commiting. The reality is that the burdon of proof is on the person making the claim.

If I came up to you and said, "Allah is the one true God"

You would, or should rightfully respond, "Ok, I hear you claim that, what is your evidence".

You wouldnt merely accept Allah's existance based on an utterance.

This is not an attack on the right to a belief. This is pointing out a fallacy in use of logic. Most laymen theists of all labels commit this fallacy.

I never sad : Allah doesn't exist.

Neighter any other names that you show.

if you ask a muslin, have you ever feel allah in your heart? They will say No. They will tell you that only will really know allah when he goes to the paradise.

I'm telling you because I've already done this question.

IF you ask a cristiam, have you ever feel God?
Everyone will say YEs.

See a difference like God and Allah.

You just believe in God if you want.

In Country from Medium Orient if you are not muslin you can be died.

you have to be muslin , you must to " belive" in what they want. Completely different

the Cristian beliefs don't force you anything, you do if you want, you believe if you want.

But it's necessary to know that whathever happen with you is your decision, not a punish for God.
You choose and you accept the concequence.

You completely missed the point.

Ok, lets see if you can follow this pattern without mentioning gods of any kind.

1. "I have a Lamborginni. Prove that I dont".

2. "I have 1 billion dollars. Prove that I dont"

3. " I am Donnald Trump. Prove that I am not."

4. "I am married to Cyndi Crawford. Now prove that I am not."

Would you blindly accept any of those claims, merely because I claimed them? I would hope not.

Now, go back and look at my original pattern in the first post that I made.

This is not about what Muslims believe or what you believe. This is about how logic is used and critical thinking.

 

 

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danicberti wrote:   There

danicberti wrote:
 

There is no problem to say: I don't know.
So if you don't know you cant say with sure, That God Doesn't exist right because you don't have the answer.

When you say for sure it doesn't exist normally you have all the answer to confirm it.
If miss some answere about that you can't say it, you need to try find the answer. Do you agree?

I don't put God in every blank space. I say for you, and all group He exist.

If someone believe or not, it's one thing, Now prove 2+2, you should have all the answer to confirm that.

As I told you the example of açaí and about myself.

I do not say that god does not exist.  As an atheist, I do not believe a god exists.  If you want to believe that a god exists, that is fine.  Neither of us have proof either way.  However, the examples you have listed are gaps in knowledge that you are choosing to fill with god.  I do not.  I prefer to wait for science to find the answers. 

You started this thread by asking "What if we are wrong?" and that was summarily answered.  You then progressed to emotions and now you are harping on gaps in science.  The bottom line is you believe in something that we don't.  None of us have that "feeling" you claim to have and it hasn't been for lack of trying.  Many of us were believers at one time or another.  Most of us do not hate any god nor do we hate believers.  I see the negative side-effects of religion and fight against it but really other than that, if someone wants to believe in a supernatural being it is fine by me.  I do not particularly care, but please do not ask me to believe too. 

 


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Magus wrote: danicberti

Magus wrote:
danicberti wrote:
jce wrote:

Ok Dani, here are some questions for you:

What is wrong with just saying 'We don't know'? Why is it necessary to plug god into the places that human knowledge has not yet filled? At one time the majority of the population thought the earth was flat. Now we know that it is not flat. It is, therefore, logical to assume that the answers to your questions will be found in time. There is no need to fill in the blanks with 'god'.

 

There is no problem to say: I don't know.
So if you don't know you cant say with sure, That God Doesn't exist right because you don't have the answer.

When you say for sure it doesn't exist normally you have all the answer to confirm it.
If miss some answere about that you can't say it, you need to try find the answer. Do you agree?

I don't put God in every blank space. I say for you, and all group He exist.

If someone believe or not, it's one thing, Now prove 2+2, you should have all the answer to confirm that.

As I told you the example of açaí and about myself.

 

You just made another misconceptions.  We do not state that GOD DOESN'T EXISTS. We are saying we don't have evidence or proof for god, so we are not going to believe it.   You are trying to fit our position to your presumption of what we are and its not true.  We don't make a positive claim that god doesn't exist, we are simply saying that there isn't sufficient, reliable, verifiable evidence for a Magic man who created everything.   I don't have you believe you about the açaí, in fact I am allowed to not believe you.  Once you present evidence of its existance, and I still don't believe you then I am irrational.   Once again we are not making a positive claim. You are.  You said açaí exists so present them. You say god exists so present it.  If you don't have the evidence then are irrational in believing it.

 

I don't think about misconception.

when I enter in this forum I saw
Do you believe in God,  we can fix it.
so many messages was trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

Now you are telling that you are not trying to prove it.
you know?


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A Theory in science is, a

Magus wrote:
A Theory in science is, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world. Laymans terms, a mere conjecture, or guess. We are talking about science and you are using the wrong defintion.

The laws of physics have not failed. Our understanding of them has, but the laws have not. The laws have not failed.

What evidence are you asking about? Evidence for the laws of physics?

well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world isn't confirmed right?
the reason of the name Theory.
They have theory, but they didn't proof it

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]


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If two of us, read again

If two of us, read again all the post long, everybody was trying to prove to me That God Doesn't exist.

In the begginer I just say:
If it is true, and everybody, try prove to me that isn't true.

But... now, some are saying:
We are not trying prove that he doesn't exist. It seems strange..... but.... ok.

Let's get back the first real point


If the bible is true, what would you do?


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TheoryFrom Wikipedia, the

Theory

Theory:

Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
synonym see HYPOTHESIS

 

from: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/theory


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danicberti wrote: Magus

danicberti wrote:
Magus wrote:
danicberti wrote:
jce wrote:

Ok Dani, here are some questions for you:

What is wrong with just saying 'We don't know'? Why is it necessary to plug god into the places that human knowledge has not yet filled? At one time the majority of the population thought the earth was flat. Now we know that it is not flat. It is, therefore, logical to assume that the answers to your questions will be found in time. There is no need to fill in the blanks with 'god'.

There is no problem to say: I don't know.
So if you don't know you cant say with sure, That God Doesn't exist right because you don't have the answer.

When you say for sure it doesn't exist normally you have all the answer to confirm it.
If miss some answere about that you can't say it, you need to try find the answer. Do you agree?

I don't put God in every blank space. I say for you, and all group He exist.

If someone believe or not, it's one thing, Now prove 2+2, you should have all the answer to confirm that.

As I told you the example of açaí and about myself.

You just made another misconceptions. We do not state that GOD DOESN'T EXISTS. We are saying we don't have evidence or proof for god, so we are not going to believe it. You are trying to fit our position to your presumption of what we are and its not true. We don't make a positive claim that god doesn't exist, we are simply saying that there isn't sufficient, reliable, verifiable evidence for a Magic man who created everything. I don't have you believe you about the açaí, in fact I am allowed to not believe you. Once you present evidence of its existance, and I still don't believe you then I am irrational. Once again we are not making a positive claim. You are. You said açaí exists so present them. You say god exists so present it. If you don't have the evidence then are irrational in believing it.

 

I don't think about misconception.

when I enter in this forum I saw
Do you believe in God, we can fix it.
so many messages was trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

Now you are telling that you are not trying to prove it.
you know?

We dont have to prove a thing. The writers of the bible debunked themseleves as soon as they wrote it. Talking donkeys, talking snakes, snakes turning into wood, flesh POOF comming from bone, a ghost getting a girl pregnant, human flesh surviving rigor mortis. Those are claims written in your book.

I didnt write those claims, but I certainly wont believe in hocus pokus, simply because you like these ancient stories.

It never occured to you that just like Muslims, you merely like your ancient myth, just like they do. It never occurs to you that people made up these stories because thy liked having a hero to worship, even if the hero wasnt real.

Did that ever occur to you?

If it makes no sense to claim a deity has multiple arms, what makes you think we should treat your claims any differently? Just because you like your claims? Just because you really want them to be true? Just because "My holy book said so".

So? You are not doing anything differently than any other sect or any other religion.

"Allah is real because the Quran says so"

"If you just read the quran with an open mind".

"Yahwey is real because the Torrah says so"

"If you just read it with an open mind".

So what? You are not presenting us with anything we haven heard before from your religion or any other.

 

 

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well.... I'm not putting my

well....

I'm not putting my religion for anyone, because I didn't say what is my religion.

I put a personal question: What would you do if you are wrong?
insted of Answer it everybody started to prove me that I'm wrong.
So discussing a lot I put a challenge, and nobody accepts.
How can you prove something if a challenge isn't accept?

difficult hã?

I know that it's not private problem.

It is just a discuss.... to see ideas, but nobody put foccus in the first post.
that's it.  =)


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Quote: Very good

Quote:
Very good explanation, but can you explain who, or what causes everything that you said?

You touched upon reality without even realizing it.

It never occurs to theists, of any religion, that a WHAT, or a natural non-coginitive, non-being(PROCESS) is what goes on as the cause.

Theists dont realize that they are projecting a "who" on life because humans are "who". So they anthropromorphize(assign human atributes to objects) because of their own egos, "If it is like me and I understand it, maybe I can have better control over my environment".

This has been going on since the earlyist humans long before the written age. Humans used to assing human characteristics to volcanos, weather events and migration patterns of animals. You are simply caught up in the latest worship of "projecting" a human like hero on something fictional in the hopes that you will grab the brass ring. As a theist, you are not doing anything differently than the volcaco worshipers or the worshipors of Thor or Apollo.

You are merely projecting an "ultimate hero" you want to be real. Someone sold you this "neat" idea of a fictional "protector in the sky". You baught it because it gave you a sense of purpose and a community. What you did not do is critically analize it. And you are no different to us than a Muslim or Hindu or Voo Doo worshipor or Scientologist.

Now before you post some "You hate me" or "You hate religion" garbage. Please remember, this is about HOW logic is used. We dont say these things in oposition because we hate. We say these things because we want humanity to grow out of the need for fiction to live life. 

Think before you post. This is not about YOU as a person. This is about the claims you make and the things you have never bothered to consider.

We are facing you with things you are not used to facing. But maybe if you  are brave enough to ask those tough questions of yourself, even if you dont change your position, you can at least have a better understanding of where we are comming from. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:

well....

I'm not putting my religion for anyone, because I didn't say what is my religion.

I put a personal question: What would you do if you are wrong?
insted of Answer it everybody started to prove me that I'm wrong.
So discussing a lot I put a challenge, and nobody accepts.
How can you prove something if a challenge isn't accept?

difficult hã?

I know that it's not private problem.

It is just a discuss.... to see ideas, but nobody put foccus in the first post.
that's it. =)

Funny how quickly the goal posts move when you face the theist with absurdity. "I didnt say it was my religion".

Of course. What sane person would claim to back up such absrudities. But "I am not like the others", humn, If I had a nickle.

"Lets pretend" for argument's sake, because that is what theists do best. "Lets pretend" such a being exists.

I would have no part of it whatsoever. I would not follow it and I would not worship it and I would not bow to it.

"I love you" it says.....but here's the catch "If you leave me I will beat the crap out of you forever and ever and ever".

No thanks. I am not interested in abusive relationships. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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danicberti

danicberti wrote:

well....

I'm not putting my religion for anyone, because I didn't say what is my religion.

I put a personal question: What would you do if you are wrong?
insted of Answer it everybody started to prove me that I'm wrong.
So discussing a lot I put a challenge, and nobody accepts.
How can you prove something if a challenge isn't accept?

difficult hã?

I know that it's not private problem.

It is just a discuss.... to see ideas, but nobody put foccus in the first post.
that's it. =)

I think this is unfair.  Several people did focus on your first post and provided information as to why it is incorrect.  Do you remember Pascal's Wager being brought up?  That was exactly what your first post was about and explanations were provided.   In essence, we could both be wrong. So what would you do if the bible was proven false?  Would it change how you live your life? 

To me, as an atheist, there are too many "holy" books out there to put complete faith in any of them.  They mimic each other to the point that a logical conclusion is that they are all mythology. 

Another logical conclusion is that they are all somewhat right.  If that is the case, I still don't care.  All that means is that none of us know the truth and we are not intended to know it so I will continue to live my life as I do now.

In your original post, you mentioned the blasphemy challenge.  Do you understand why that challenge was made and what those videos represent? 


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jce wrote: danicberti

jce wrote:
danicberti wrote:

well....

I'm not putting my religion for anyone, because I didn't say what is my religion.

I put a personal question: What would you do if you are wrong?
insted of Answer it everybody started to prove me that I'm wrong.
So discussing a lot I put a challenge, and nobody accepts.
How can you prove something if a challenge isn't accept?

difficult hã?

I know that it's not private problem.

It is just a discuss.... to see ideas, but nobody put foccus in the first post.
that's it. =)

I think this is unfair. Several people did focus on your first post and provided information as to why it is incorrect. Do you remember Pascal's Wager being brought up? That was exactly what your first post was about and explanations were provided. In essence, we could both be wrong. So what would you do if the bible was proven false? Would it change how you live your life?

To me, as an atheist, there are too many "holy" books out there to put complete faith in any of them. They mimic each other to the point that a logical conclusion is that they are all mythology.

Another logical conclusion is that they are all somewhat right. If that is the case, I still don't care. All that means is that none of us know the truth and we are not intended to know it so I will continue to live my life as I do now.

In your original post, you mentioned the blasphemy challenge. Do you understand why that challenge was made and what those videos represent?

Dont feed the fundies.

I understand the intent of this post. But when we are talking about "Truth" lets make sure that we are clearly making a distiction between "Truth in metaphore" and "The magic I claim is real".

I can find "truth" in "Star Wars" and "Harry Potter" in what humans strive for commonly as far as issues of loyalty. But I wont extend that common ground to claiming that Luke can use the Force anymore than I'd believe that little boys can fly around on broomsticks.

Lets be carefull, theists have a tendancy to latch on to missinterpretation when we seek common ground. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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what to do if its true

Kmisho,

 you are taking a risk just by believing in the judeo/christian god or the hindu, muslim etc etc god. 

Say you choose to believe in christian god and that, as we know, means accepting the jesus as the savior.  Well what if you are wrong and it's really the Allah you should have chosen.  Better yet what if you find non of those gods ever existed then you still made the wrong choice and took that risk.  The risk of believing what man made up to keep the masses, pheasants in control at the time the god was made up.   

also the bible says god made man in his image but have you noticed there are pictures of the jesus as different races.  It should have said the truth - man made god in his image.

 Don't go by prophecy (signs) people or rather christians have been saying prophecy is real for like thousands of years and non of it has come true.

 As was said here from another member what kind of god would torture anyone who made the wrong choice. (not exact words).  what happened to loving his creation?  the bible contradicts itself because man made up the words in the bible. 

Maby in the OT religion was necessary for order.  Keeping evreyone in line with the law, not killing each other and of course to conform - not fight against the leaders.  God was the scapegoat - the leaders passed the buck onto an imaginary god.  If people question your authority use the god as a higher power and threat worse than what you would do to them.  The use the god as an excuse to torture, punish, murder, rape your enemies and just anyone who disagreed with you.


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danicberti wrote:

danicberti wrote:

There are here people trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

I was taking a look at that site www.blasphemychallenge.com and I foud many people recording their videos with blasphemy about the Holy Spirit.

It's not a big deal but if what the bible say is true?

Because is difficult to prove about something that you don't see.

Let's think about ET; many people does't believe that it exist because nobody see that. But how can we prove if it exist or not?

Reading through this thread you keep addressing your first post and suggesting that people didn't respond to it. But they did. Your argument is one that's so common that it's even got it's own name. Pascal's Wager.

Here's the link to wikipedia with some information about it, I suggest reading up on it and the rebuttle section on it so you can understand why your original post is so quickly shrugged off without much response:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

 

 

In reality, what the bible says can NOT be true. It can not be true because it contradicts itself too many times. It would first have to be a single truth told in the bible before it could ever be wholly true. There are hundreds of contradictions in the bible, and that does not even include the historical problems.

Historically it fails as well.

The Bible fails as an internal document, an external document. I don't know which ones, but very few sects accept the bible in whole.

 

As for your last comment about ET...you're right.

It's likely that you don't believe that a dog faced Luck Dragon really exists as told in The Never Ending Story. But you realize that you can't disprove that he exists. But it's fair to suggest that you see it as extremely unlikely and would even suggest taht you don't believe that the Luck Dragon really exists. Even if you want to leave a bit of a marker available to say that you can't disprove it, you are still a Luck Dragon atheist.

Atheists suggest that god does not exist. The vast majority of them understand that they can't disprove it, but they are as much an atheist about your god of the bible as they are about the Luck Dragon of The Never Ending Story. Sure we can't prove that your god does not exist, but not being able to prove something doesn't exist is not a reason to believe in it.  If it were, we'd have to believe in every possible imaginable crazy idea.

You can not truely disprove that something exists. It's logically impossible. But we can say that it's so extremely unlikely since there is no evidence to suggest that something does exist that we confidently believe that it does not exist until we are given a real proof as to it's existance. Of course I'm talking about the Luck Dragon.

 

 

Moonchild!


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danicberti

danicberti wrote:
inspectormustard wrote:
danicberti wrote:

kmisho wrote:
So what if there is a god? No sane god would torture you for a mere error of belief so there's nothing to worry about. If, on the other hand, there is a god but he's not sane then believer and non-believer alike are (pardon my french) fucked.


Imagine your father telling you.

hey kid, don't put your hand in the stove because it is hot, and you don't believe in it and put your hand there.
What will happen?
For sure, you will burn yourself.

If you are not sure that everything the bible is fake because there are things proved by history.

So you can't affirm that hell doesn't exist, you can't prove that some future profecy.

why you will take a risk?

The risk we are taking is smaller than the risk of falling off the planet for no apparent reason. A stove is not a proper analogy because you can feel the heat of the stove with your hand, we know how stoves work. We don't know how God, hell, or any of that works. What is God made out of? No one can say, so we ignore them.

Likewise, we could use the same "evidence" you're presenting to prove that Superman is a real person, because there are historical events in the comics. In fact, American comic book superheroes began fighting World War 2 before America did.

 

By the way.... have you ever heard about the wind analogy?????

If you can agree with the stove because you see. think about this.

 

Do you see the wind????
Why do you believe the wind exist?

Wind is oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen mixed together in a chemical cocktail. Oh, and yes we can see wind, all we have to do is cool "wind" or "air" down to around -230 and it condenses into a liquid. That we can infact see. Other then that we have instruments to detect these chemicals that make up wind, and have a reason for it to be there.

 

As for the love thing, love is chemical reaction in your brain. It is hormones brought on by chemicals, this has been proven, therefore love does exist, but it's only a manifestation of your brains chemical work. 

"When I die I shall be content to vanish into nothingness.... No show, however good, could conceivably be good forever.... I do not believe in immortality, and have no desire for it." ~H.L. Mencken

Thank god i'm a atheist!


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danicberti

danicberti wrote:

biological response?
Sou you are able to control your feelings?
If you decide by yourself.
don't fall in love, never more you can control it?

The life isn' t rational. there is a mixed about it.

By the way. let me continous

If life is rational.

why exist rappers?

why exist murder?

why people feel alone, with many frends around them?

If life is rational

Why when someone feel sad, can't control its tears?

why there are unhappy people?
why the science can't explain what make the hormons work about our feelings?

If life is rational

Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?

why the science can't make us eternal younger

not only our external body but inside our body like heart?

Could you explain if the life are rational why the doctors fail sometimes in keep someone alive?

Look, what you wrote here is nothing but an appeal to emotion. I can quite clearly see your inability to cope with the cold hard facts of reality on this post. The way you ask questions like "Why the science can't discover the solution for eternal happyness?" is a perfect demonstration of my point. You are completely missing the whole point of our existence if you think life exists to make us "happy". Besides this is a horribly, awfully naiive way of thinking about life.

I'll try my best not to make loose assumptions, but I can't imagine how can you say this. Do you think that science can make us eternally happy and fix all problems involved with the laws of physics in our universe? Well do you think your "God" can do that? Even if God did exist, that's certainly not what he had in mind if he created the universe. Ask a theologian about the existence of evil.

You want to hear the truth? Here's the truth: You don't know if God exists or not because you have no proof. You will die some day, and you cannot know if that's the end of it. Once you have died, you will eventually be forgotten. You cannot know if you will ever achieve everlasting happiness, and even if there was such a thing, it would be very naiive not to accept the fact that you live in this universe, because there's nothing you can do about it.

Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.


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danicberti wrote: There

danicberti wrote:

There are here people trying to prove that God doesn't exist.

I was taking a look at that site www.blasphemychallenge.com and I foud many people recording their videos with blasphemy about the Holy Spirit.

It's not a big deal but if what the bible say is true?

Because is difficult to prove about something that you don't see.

Let's think about ET; many people does't believe that it exist because nobody see that. But how can we prove if it exist or not?

 

If it's true then I'm going to hell. If in fact it's really the Greek Pantheon "up there" then you and I are both going to Hades. If it is actually the Flying Spaghetti Monster then we're going to be rewarded with an eternal lifetime's supply of spaghetti bolognese because the FSM loves all, even nonbelievers.

 


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quote] If it's true then

quote]

If it's true then I'm going to hell. If in fact it's really the Greek Pantheon "up there" then you and I are both going to Hades. If it is actually the Flying Spaghetti Monster then we're going to be rewarded with an eternal lifetime's supply of spaghetti bolognese because the FSM loves all, even nonbelievers.

You told about Hades.

Why don't you try to know more about geena instead of Hades.

Because many times, Hades Means grave


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If memory serves me

If memory serves me correctly, Greek mythology believed hades was where you went after you die eg everyone goes there.


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[ Wind is oxygen,

[

Wind is oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen mixed together in a chemical cocktail. Oh, and yes we can see wind, all we have to do is cool "wind" or "air" down to around -230 and it condenses into a liquid. That we can infact see. Other then that we have instruments to detect these chemicals that make up wind, and have a reason for it to be there.

 

We can't see the wind as it really is.

We can see just how its manifest right?
     We can't see God. We can see what he do.

As for the love thing, love is chemical reaction in your brain. It is hormones brought on by chemicals, this has been proven, therefore love does exist, but it's only a manifestation of your brains chemical work. 


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You todl:    You want to

You todl:    You want to hear the truth? Here's the truth: You don't know if God exists or not because you have no proof. You will die some day, and you cannot know if that's the end of it. Once you have died, you will eventually be forgotten. You cannot know if you will ever achieve everlasting happiness, and even if there was such a thing, it would be very naiive not to accept the fact that you live in this universe, because there's nothing you can do about it.

I really know the truth. I really know the God.
I'm not trying prove that He exist, as I told in the begginer.... When you really believe in something, you try. If you can't prove, with logical stuffs but you try.

Now if you don't have sure that something exist, so you try to prove the oposit.

I think you don't have sure about what are you talking about.
When something doesn't exist you don't loose your time trying to prove that, because it only doesn't exist.

 


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zntneo wrote: If memory

zntneo wrote:
If memory serves me correctly, Greek mythology believed hades was where you went after you die eg everyone goes there.
you need to know the difference between Hades and Geena

Hades means Grave

Geena means hell


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danicberti wrote: zntneo

danicberti wrote:

zntneo wrote:
If memory serves me correctly, Greek mythology believed hades was where you went after you die eg everyone goes there.
you need to know the difference between Hades and Geena

Hades means Grave

Geena means hell

Base on this website http://www.controverscial.com/Greek%20Mythology.htm#Hades%20and%20Hell

Hades was the name of the ruler of the underworld. Erebus was where everyone went after they died. Tartarus was the part of the underworld that was meant for punishment and was for the wicked.

I found nothing about Geena with regards to greek mythology.