Pan's Labyrinth

Lux
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Pan's Labyrinth

All debates aside. I rented this movie and haven't watched it yet. But from what I hear it has religious undertones to it. Have any of you seen it and do you agree?

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


djneibarger
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i haven't seen but i'd

i haven't seen but i'd really, really like to. haven't heard anything about religious undertones, would be curious if anyone knew about this..

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It's a visual masterpiece. 

It's a visual masterpiece.  I hope you enjoy watching it!


wavefreak
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Here's a weird question.

Here's a weird question. Movies often require 'suspension of disbelief' to be entertaining.  Super heros don't exist  so we have to  put aside our  beliefs and let the story be "real". A good movie allows this to happen seamlessly. With a great move you don't even realize it happened until it's over. I know sometimes that it is hard for me to suspend belief when some science fact is stretched way to far. That movie about the huge storms (The day after?) and category 7 hurricaines was just too far over the top for me. I just couldn't watch it.

So may question is, for atheists, are religious or super-natural themed movies hard or even impossible to watch because of the fact that you, on a more fundamental level than most people, know these things don't exist? 

 Not trying to start something. Just wondering.


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wavefreak wrote: Here's a

wavefreak wrote:

Here's a weird question. Movies often require 'suspension of disbelief' to be entertaining.

Actually you have to believe (Sort of)to really get behind a movie.

Oh and you have emotionally connect too. 

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This movie was fantastic. 

This movie was fantastic.  Just a warning though - it was incredibly violent.  Still, I highly recommend watching it.

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I agree with Pariahjane.  I

I agree with Pariahjane.  I wouldn't necessarily let small kids watch the movie... but that is up to the parent.  It is a very wonderfully done movie.  It has amazing visuals and a sort of music to the speaking.  However, it does have a certain horror to it as well. Beauty and Horror... I like it.

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wavefreak wrote: So may

wavefreak wrote:
So may question is, for atheists, are religious or super-natural themed movies hard or even impossible to watch because of the fact that you, on a more fundamental level than most people, know these things don't exist?

This actually made me laugh out loud!! I understand that you are not trying to start something, but that made it even funnier to me - LOL

My answer: No. I only speak for myself on this one, though.

Like you, I have an imagination.

Like you, when I see a movie I consider it entertainment - not fact.

Like you, I appreciate the cg, acting, directing, etc. of a good movie.

Like me, you know these things do not exist. I would think, based on your statement that it would be more difficult for you to watch these things since many times they contradict belief in your god.  (just kidding  Wink)


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jce wrote: wavefreak

jce wrote:

wavefreak wrote:
So may question is, for atheists, are religious or super-natural themed movies hard or even impossible to watch because of the fact that you, on a more fundamental level than most people, know these things don't exist?

This actually made me laugh out loud!! I understand that you are not trying to start something, but that made it even funnier to me - LOL

My answer: No. I only speak for myself on this one, though.

Like you, I have an imagination.

Like you, when I see a movie I consider it entertainment - not fact.

Like you, I appreciate the cg, acting, directing, etc. of a good movie.

Like me, you know these things do not exist. I would think, based on your statement that it would be more difficult for you to watch these things since many times they contradict belief in your god. (just kidding Wink)

 

Actually I do find some things impossible to watch because they are so absurd that I can't let go and let the story carry me away. But I guess this has more to do with the writing than the theme.  Often these are movies that string together some loosely related ideas from science into an implausible story line that seems to have some thinly veiled agenda.  


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wavefreak wrote: Actually I

wavefreak wrote:
Actually I do find some things impossible to watch because they are so absurd that I can't let go and let the story carry me away. But I guess this has more to do with the writing than the theme. Often these are movies that string together some loosely related ideas from science into an implausible story line that seems to have some thinly veiled agenda.

Me too.  Considering what it costs to see a movie at the theater, you would think they could provide better stuff on a more consistent basis - LOL

I have not seen Pan's Labyrinth...I'll have to check it out.  Can someone provide a quick synopsis? 


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The prologue tells of

The prologue tells of Princess Moanna, daughter to the king of the underworld. She became curious about the world above and fled to the surface, where the brightness of the sun blotted out her memories. Growing old as a human, she died, causing turmoil in her kingdom. However, the king always believed that her spirit would one day return, reincarnated in the form of another.

The story cuts to post-Civil War Spain in 1944, after Francisco Franco has come into power. Ofelia, a young girl often absorbed in fairy tales, travels with her pregnant mother Carmen to meet Captain Vidal, her new stepfather and father of Carmen's unborn child. Vidal, a fascist devotee, suffers from the repercussions of his father's death as a famed commander in Morocco, and takes his anger out on the Republican rebels he has been assigned to seek out and eliminate while stationed at a countryside mill.

On the way, Ofelia discovers a large insect resembling a praying mantis and walking stick, and she believes it to be a fairy. The creature follows the family to their new home, where it leads Ofelia to an ancient labyrinth. Before Ofelia can enter the labyrinth, she is stopped by Mercedes, one of Vidal's maids and a spy for the rebels, who are led by her brother, Pedro. That night, the creature appears in Ofelia's bedroom, where it morphs into a fairy and leads Ofelia through the labyrinth into a small clearing. There, she meets the faun, who recognizes her as the long-lost Princess Moanna and assigns her three tasks to complete before the full moon to ensure that her "essence is intact".

The faun gives Ofelia the Book of Crossroads, which explains her tasks. The faun gives Ofelia the Book of Crossroads, which explains her tasks.

Ofelia completes the first task - retrieving a key from the belly of a giant toad - however, she fears for her mother, whose condition is worsening. The faun gives Ofelia a mandrake root, which instantly begins to cure her mother's illness. Ofelia then manages to complete the second task - taking an ornate dagger from the lair of the Pale Man, a child-eating monster. Although she was warned to not consume anything there, she eats two of the Pale Man's grapes as she leaves, awakening him and causing the deaths of two of the faun's fairies. Infuriated at her disobedience, the faun disappears, claiming that she will never return to her kingdom or see him again.

Meanwhile, Vidal becomes increasingly vicious in his methods, torturing a captured Republican and killing a doctor (a Republican sympathizer) who euthanized the prisoner (at the prisoner's request) after the prisoner began to give Vidal information. Vidal catches Ofelia tending to the mandrake root, and Carmen, desperate to prove to her daughter that magic is not real, throws the root into the fireplace. Instantly, she develops painful contractions and dies giving birth to a son. Vidal discovers Mercedes is a rebel spy, and he captures her and Ofelia as they attempt to escape. Ofelia is locked in her bedroom, and Mercedes is taken to be tortured; however, she frees herself, injures Vidal and flees into the woods, where Pedro and the rebels rescue her.

The faun returns to Ofelia, claiming that he will give her one more chance to prove herself. He tells her to take her baby brother into the labyrinth. Ofelia manages to steal the baby after sedating Vidal; however, although disoriented, Vidal continues to chase her through the labyrinth amidst an attack on the mill by the rebels. Upon her arrival in the clearing, the faun tells Ofelia that the portal to the underworld will open only with the blood of an innocent -- she must spill her infant brother's blood. Ofelia refuses to harm her brother, and the faun disappears, accepting her decision. Vidal finds her, takes the baby and shoots Ofelia. As he staggers out of the labyrinth, he finds the rebels waiting for him and, after handing them his son, is killed by Pedro.

As Mercedes enters the labyrinth and mourns over Ofelia's dead body, Ofelia is reunited with the king and queen of the underworld. She learns that by spilling her own blood instead of her brother's, she has proven herself to be the true Princess Moanna. The epilogue tells that Ofelia ruled the kingdom for many centuries, was adored by her people, and left behind little signs of her life on Earth, visible only to those who knew where to look.

Spoilers end here.

[edit] Cast

Ivana Baquero with one of the magical characters Ivana Baquero with one of the magical characters
  • Ivana Baquero as Ofelia: Del Toro says he was "scared shitless" in casting the right actress for the lead role, and that finding the 11-year old Spanish actress was purely accidental. "The character I wrote was initially younger, about 8 or 9 and Ivana came in and she was a little older than the character, with this curly hair which I never imagined the girl having. But I loved her first reading, my wife was crying and the camera woman was crying after her reading and I knew hands down Ivana was the best actress that had shown up, yet I knew that I needed to change the screenplay to accommodate her age."[3] Baquero says that del Toro sent her lots of comics and fairytales to help her "get more into the atmosphere of Ofelia and more into what she felt." She says she thought the film was "marvelous," and that "At the same time it can bring you pain and sadness and scariness and happiness."[4]
  • Doug Jones as The Faun and The Pale Man: Jones had worked with del Toro before on Mimic and Hellboy, and says the director sent him an email saying "You must be in this film. No one else can play this part but you". Jones read an English translation of the script and was enthusiastic but then found out the film was in Spanish, which he did not speak. Jones says he was "terrified" and

 

 

 

Wikipedia

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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wavefreak wrote: So may

wavefreak wrote:

So may question is, for atheists, are religious or super-natural themed movies hard or even impossible to watch because of the fact that you, on a more fundamental level than most people, know these things don't exist?

See the difference comes from the fact that movies like that are very upfront.  This is fiction.  This is designed to use archetypes, themes, devices, and suspension of disbelief to pull at emotions, evoke responses, and leave you feeling like you had a good time.

I actually enjoyed the movie The Omen.  In fact I went on 6-6-06 with my partner to go see it.  Truth be told we laughed at alot of the "fear the end times" messages in it, but we were still able to be just as frightened of Damien without believing that an Anti-christ is possible.

I do agree with you though on those movies where science gets stretched too far.  That feeling usually happens when they're trying to pour on the fear and dread.  My brain switches into that mode of "Oh no, how could they solve this problem and get out alive?" which I believe is the mode they want you in in such scenes.  Then they jump the fence by declaring that 6 nukes is enough to restart the core's rotation before the Magnetosphere collapses and solar wind vaporizes the earth.  Suddenly, I'm stuck high and dry thinking that this is the stupidest plan they ever could have had, and then I change the channel. 

When it comes to action scenes where its more the feeling of "oh yeah, butt kickings for justice", blow as many physical laws and levels of realism to hell as you like, just make me sit on the edge of my seat cheering all the way.  Thus I am able to watch a giant robot cut 3 of the 4 Galilean moons in half while floating over the now fusioning Jupiter shooting beams of "space radiation" and not care about how many physical laws this breaks.  Its just cool, and I enjoy seeing it.

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I've seen the movie.. I

I've seen the movie.. I loved the movie. It is visually stunning! The best descripton I've heard for the movie is this one:  "Alice in Wonderland for adults" 

There are several lessons it seems to teach IMO:

1.) Question Authority.  Those who obey w/o question will inevitably sacrifice both their ability to reason and their compassion in the process.  Does this pertain to religion in any way ?

There is another lesson for anyone who might seek to lead or rule other humans, but it could be a spoiler if I mention what it is.

It is worth seeing.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell