Comfort and crew offer $10K for a transitional species?

Stophe
Stophe's picture
Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Comfort and crew offer $10K for a transitional species?

Is this offer real? http://www.intelligentdesignversusevolution.com/

If it is, does anyone know what the details are? Can I simply submist a list like the one below and collect my $10k?

Is there something legally binding in the website that offers the money? Or is the offer

"I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird). Species do not cross, no matter how long you leave them. " Ray Comfort (from the website above)

Is this offer only for living transitional species? Since we dont know where the next prolific mutations will come from, any living species is a potential transitional form. There are genetic differences (even mutations) in every offspring from a parent....can I simply submit that I am transforming from my parents if I can show that at least one locus of my DNA is not from either of my parents?

 

I know this is cheap attempt to misguide some people about the current theory of evolution (and perhaps is even how the R. Comforts of the world misunderstand evolution in the first place), but it seems to me that the 10K challenge can be met (almost trivially depending on interpretation). Does anyone out there have more information on this?

 

-Stophe Landis

 

Transitional Fossils, ripped right from wikipedia.

Amphibians

 


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13210
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
He's asking for evidence of

He's asking for evidence of magic, not evidence of evolution.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Ophios
Ophios's picture
Posts: 909
Joined: 2006-09-19
User is offlineOffline
He won't pay. He'll make

He won't pay.

He'll make some BS about it not really being transistional.

If he was really looking for trasition, he would have realized it was everywhere.

AImboden wrote:
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
May I present myself as a

May I present myself as a specimen?


Voided
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-20
User is offlineOffline
You know it would be cool

You know it would be cool if scientist can get that money and put it to use.

Even if they don't get paid working at it would create a lot of evidence against the idea that there are none. 


MrRage
Posts: 896
Joined: 2006-12-22
User is offlineOffline
I'll one up Comfort. I'll

I'll one up Comfort. I'll give $1,000,000 to anyone who can show that "a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken".


D-cubed
Rational VIP!
D-cubed's picture
Posts: 715
Joined: 2007-01-04
User is offlineOffline
Perhaps this is what they

Perhaps this is what they are looking for?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/12/tech/main263745.shtml

An ordinary cow in Iowa gives birth to an Asian ox. Sure it was a clone that was transplanted in the uterus but Ray claims this is impossible. Since his offer does not exclude such mechanisms then this would be a fulfillment of his challenge. However, seeing that Ray openly lied so often during the debate I doubt his offer is genuine.

Regardless I sent him an e-mail providing the link and my address to send me the check.  If he refuses then that is just one more piece of evidence that Ray is a liar. 


Ophios
Ophios's picture
Posts: 909
Joined: 2006-09-19
User is offlineOffline
I'll pay for a banana that

I'll pay for a banana that can fit in my hand.


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
    What bothered me

    What bothered me about the transitional fossil argument was his earlier claim he was an "atheist and evolutionist" at one time. Anyone, even him, who even slightly understands evolutionary theory understand that is not how evolution happens. Croci-fuckin-duck.... what the hell?  My 13yr old son watched it and before I could speak pointed out the flaws with that argument.


gregfl
Posts: 170
Joined: 2006-04-29
User is offlineOffline
Their whole concept of

Their whole concept of transitional form is a strawman.  You can't produce for them something that cannot exist, like a animal that is half and half of any species.  This animal could never reproduce.  What really happens in nature is that small changes occur called mutuations ..if the change helps the animal survive in its environment, then this animal will have a breeding advantage and this mutation will be passed on.  Eventually, over time, multiple changes in this population, combined with changes in other populations will cause this animal to only be able to breed among its own.  IT will then continue to mutute and pass on beneficial changes further seperating this new species from the original animal.  This process occurs over long periods of time.


HOWEVER, Kirk again is so stupid.  He holds up photoshopped created animals like "the bullfrog..we never see this in nature" like somehow the theory of evolution allows for a bull to give birth to a half frog, half bull.  This is a gross misprepresentation of how animals speciate.  It is also an intentional misrepresentation on the parts of creationists.  However, I don't think Kirkie gets that part...he is so stupid I think he believes he is actually representing the theory of evolution.

 

Strawman.   Any honest attempts to provide a transitional species (which every animal on the planet is) will just be dismissed.  This is akin to Hovin's offer..it is dishonest.

 

 

 


AModestProposal
AModestProposal's picture
Posts: 157
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
That's nothing: I will give

That's nothing:I will give $1,000,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found physical proof of transitional form betwen a 5-year-old boy and a 40-year-old man. People do not grow, no matter how long you leave them. You can't show me a missing link of a boy turning into a man, therefore growth is just a scientific conspiracy to cover up the truth that the Pants Pixies of the Planet Zeist are really age us  many years magically during each superbowl half-time


stillmatic
stillmatic's picture
Posts: 288
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
Wouldn't a mule fall within

Wouldn't a mule fall within his rules? A mule is the offspring of a donkey and a horse, which are two different species. I think that a mule is it's own species as well. So this would be a case of a horse or a donkey giving birth to another species.

 Mules are not entirely sterile as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2290491.stm

 

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


gregfl
Posts: 170
Joined: 2006-04-29
User is offlineOffline
hehe, you don't know how to

hehe, you don't know how to play this game, do you?

 

Comfort (in accent)  A donkey is the same KIND as a horse.  A donkey doesn't occur in nature.

 

blah blah...no money for you.

 

 


Stophe
Stophe's picture
Posts: 2
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
AModestProposal is my hero

All the responses are good. Since this was first post here, I didn't know how it would be received. By far though, AModestProposal caused me to couch and gasp for air as I laughed and gufawed. I enjoyed reading all the reponses so far, and have this qustion to further my original post.

 

I wonder though if a serious and public attempt to win the $10K would help to publicize the campaign of disinformation. I dont know what the legal ramifications are (if there are any) or how binding a website offer like that is. It seems to me if it went to some type of arbitration (like a court or judge) it may come down to the exact definitions and wording used on the website. Given the (sorry forgot the name) post of one person suggesting that one species can gestate another meets the letter of the challenge, maybe there is a chance to push this.

 

-Stophe


AModestProposal
AModestProposal's picture
Posts: 157
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
Stophe wrote: All the

Stophe wrote:

All the responses are good. Since this was first post here, I didn't know how it would be received. By far though, AModestProposal caused me to couch and gasp for air as I laughed and gufawed. I enjoyed reading all the reponses so far, and have this qustion to further my original post.

 

I wonder though if a serious and public attempt to win the $10K would help to publicize the campaign of disinformation. I dont know what the legal ramifications are (if there are any) or how binding a website offer like that is. It seems to me if it went to some type of arbitration (like a court or judge) it may come down to the exact definitions and wording used on the website. Given the (sorry forgot the name) post of one person suggesting that one species can gestate another meets the letter of the challenge, maybe there is a chance to push this.

 

-Stophe


Glad to hear it, Stophe. Since Ray stole the idea of the cash reward from James Randi, and absurdly tried to apply it  to disroving something, I've been working on stealing it back to counteract their idiocy. I'm still fine-tuning the parallels between Creationist issues with Evolution  and rejecting regular human growth as scientist propaganda. If any1 has any ideas, let me know. And if you can show me a transitional form, you may win 100 billion dollars!!!! (I raised it)


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13210
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
AModestProposal

AModestProposal wrote:
That's nothing:I will give $1,000,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found physical proof of transitional form betwen a 5-year-old boy and a 40-year-old man. People do not grow, no matter how long you leave them. You can't show me a missing link of a boy turning into a man, therefore growth is just a scientific conspiracy to cover up the truth that the Pants Pixies of the Planet Zeist are really age us  many years magically during each superbowl half-time

Ooo. I like this. A lot.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Just Me...
Theist
Posts: 10
Joined: 2007-05-12
User is offlineOffline
I watched recently Ray and

I watched recently Ray and Kirk's comments about this during the debate; as a non-practicing Christian, I have to say that it was quite possibly the stupidest argument for Christianity and proof of creation I have ever heard.

 Ray and Kirk should hang their heads in shame, because it was a very silly argument.  I felt embarassed for them...


stillmatic
stillmatic's picture
Posts: 288
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
gregfl wrote: hehe, you

gregfl wrote:

hehe, you don't know how to play this game, do you?

Comfort (in accent)  A donkey is the same KIND as a horse.  A donkey doesn't occur in nature.

blah blah...no money for you.

Well then a Wolphin is a better example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolphin

It's a hybrid between a bottlenose dolphin and a false killer whale. They occur naturally and are fertile.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


gregfl
Posts: 170
Joined: 2006-04-29
User is offlineOffline
stillmatic wrote: gregfl

stillmatic wrote:
gregfl wrote:

hehe, you don't know how to play this game, do you?

Comfort (in accent)  A donkey is the same KIND as a horse.  A donkey doesn't occur in nature.

blah blah...no money for you.

 

Dophins and killer whales are the same Kind.

 

(note:  "kind" has a floating definition to mean whatever the creationist needs it to mean to win the argument)

 

You lose again!  No cookie for you!

 

 

Well then a Wolphin is a better example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolphin

It's a hybrid between a bottlenose dolphin and a false killer whale. They occur naturally and are fertile.


mrjonno
Posts: 726
Joined: 2007-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Any human being with a

Any human being with a genetic defect is a transitional creature.  For example someone with Down's Syndrome is a example of 'random' error in rreproduction  which could lead to an improved species but generally just results in death


HellyK
Posts: 43
Joined: 2007-05-07
User is offlineOffline
The 10 commandments challenge - Supported by Ray Comfort.

I got this message from one of my friends, and I thought it would be a good idea to bring it to the RRS forum.  the following website offers to pay $10,000 to anyone who has kept all 10 commandments. of course, they set it up in such a way that it's impossible to win the money. if you answer all ten questions correctly, they point out that according to god, no one can keep all 10 commandments, and that you therefore must be lying, which means you've broken the 9th commandment. (why they couldn't just start off by saying, "don't bother answering - god already said you lost" is beyond me.) http://www.tenthousanddollaroffer.com/ (in all fairness, i don't know if ray comfort is the one directly behind it, but there was an ad for a page on wayofthemasterradio.com that links to this challenge.) their specific words are: "Perhaps you said that you have kept the first of the Ten Commandments, but the Bible says, “There is none that seeks after God” (Romans 3:11, italics added). So no one has kept that Commandment. Not one. So one of you is lying—either you or God, and the Scriptures say that it’s "impossible" for God to lie (see Hebrews 6:18). So, now you have broken the Ninth Commandment by lying about keeping the First Commandment. So you have missed out on the $10,000 (sorry about that), but please stay with this—for a free gift." how is this legal though? they can't make absolute statements about people based on the bible. can they? if you are a lawyer, please challenge this.    


stillmatic
stillmatic's picture
Posts: 288
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
gregfl wrote: stillmatic

gregfl wrote:
stillmatic wrote:
gregfl wrote:

hehe, you don't know how to play this game, do you?

Comfort (in accent)  A donkey is the same KIND as a horse.  A donkey doesn't occur in nature.

blah blah...no money for you.

Dophins and killer whales are the same Kind.

(note:  "kind" has a floating definition to mean whatever the creationist needs it to mean to win the argument)

You lose again!  No cookie for you!

Well then a Wolphin is a better example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolphin

It's a hybrid between a bottlenose dolphin and a false killer whale. They occur naturally and are fertile.

I think what you'd have to do is get them to narrow down their definition of "kind" before giving them an answer.

However, Ray does say that species don't interbred on his website, which is clearly a lie.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


JCE
Bronze Member
JCE's picture
Posts: 1219
Joined: 2007-03-20
User is offlineOffline
jeebus.  Without sounding

jeebus.  Without sounding holier than thou (get it?), wouldn't this money be better spent on a charity of some kind?  Kinda pisses me off that they would give this kind of money away because they are too bassackwards to learn evolution.


AModestProposal
AModestProposal's picture
Posts: 157
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
Excellent point, jce.

Excellent point, jce.


thraxas
thraxas's picture
Posts: 89
Joined: 2007-05-14
User is offlineOffline
Excuse my language, but

Excuse my language, but this guy is a fucking idiot. I love these idiotic theists that don't have a single bit of knowledge of biology or evolution . High school kids could easily refute this claim after taking an intro biology class.

 A sheep that produced a chicken? Are you kidding me?? A chicken is a far away descendent of a group of theropod dinosaurs. A sheep is a mammal that evolved independently from small mammals at the same time as dinosaurs existed. No possible transition, you fucking tard.

 I am not going to even dignify the cat and dog thing. Canines are completely independent from Felines.

 We do have FOSSIL transitional proof between theropod dinosaurs and modern birds. The fucking idiot named it in his post - Archaeopteryx. It has proto feathers, hollow bones like birds but skull structure, digits etc. and skin like a dinosaur. There have been many other such fossils recently found in China which show different steps in this evoluntionary transition.

There are living transitional creatures today but they are not so glaringly obvious especially for an idiot like this theist. He should learn a little phylogeny before even asking such a question.

Biochemist & Law Student

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson