Original Sin was caused by faith ?

blackmath
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Original Sin was caused by faith ?

According to the 'logic' of Genesis, Adam and Eve's gullibility was responsible for The Fall since they were born innocent, unable to distinguish between the validity of God's instructions and those of God's indirect creation The Devil (in the form of a snake), therefore they just believed whatever they were told and here we are, sinners all.


sugarfree
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todangst wrote: sugarfree

todangst wrote:
sugarfree wrote:
deludedgod wrote:

This is an extremely irritating excercise.

I agree. And it is apparent that continuing will simply waste both of our time.

Because all you do is dodge his arguments and completely shirk your own responsibility to back up your claims.

No, I can tell we are not going to come to any disagreement, and I do not have the energy to keep up the back and forth.  I need to drag myself away from this dumb computer!


sugarfree
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sugarfree wrote: todangst

sugarfree wrote:
todangst wrote:
sugarfree wrote:
deludedgod wrote:

This is an extremely irritating excercise.

I agree. And it is apparent that continuing will simply waste both of our time.

Because all you do is dodge his arguments and completely shirk your own responsibility to back up your claims.

No, I can tell we are not going to come to any disagreement, and I do not have the energy to keep up the back and forth. I need to drag myself away from this dumb computer!

 

Oops.  That would be "agreement". 


BGH
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sugarfree wrote: I need

sugarfree wrote:
I need to drag myself away from this dumb computer!

Don't blame the computer, it is inatimate. It can only be as dumb as the operator. 


todangst
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sugarfree wrote: todangst

sugarfree wrote:
todangst wrote:
sugarfree wrote:
deludedgod wrote:

This is an extremely irritating excercise.

I agree. And it is apparent that continuing will simply waste both of our time.

Because all you do is dodge his arguments and completely shirk your own responsibility to back up your claims.

No, I can tell we are not going to come to any agreement

NO.

The problem, again is this:

1) You dodge each of his arguments

2) You fail back up your own claims.

Stop lying to yourself about this. 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


todangst
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sugarfree wrote: Antony

sugarfree wrote:
Antony Flew is the person I was thinking of.

1) Flew's a deist.

2) What matters is not his name, but his argument. And what moved him was a very bad argument. 

 

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'


RhadTheGizmo
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Quote:

Quote:
Stop lying to yourself about this.

Not polite. Assertion regarding mindset of other person--subjective opinion presented as matter-of-fact. Perhaps, a better way to state this would have been:

"With regards to these points I cannot understand how you fail to see that you are failing to address the arguments-- or, you merely reassert the same assertions without basis (which is actually redundant, oh well)."

Anycase.. Smiling I'm just dropping my opinion and being a pain. Heh... I've been staying out of this whole thread til now. And now.. I will take my leave again. Sticking out tongue


BGH
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RhadTheGizmo wrote: And

RhadTheGizmo wrote:

And now.. I will take my leave again. Sticking out tongue

Maybe your meds too... ? 


RhadTheGizmo
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Quote: Maybe your meds

Quote:
Maybe your meds too... ?

Problem? 


deludedgod
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I agree. And it is

I agree. And it is apparent that continuing will simply waste both of our time.

In light of how ridiculous you have been acting, you should drop out of your other thread immediately, where you childishly whine about people being mean to you. If you act like this, people will be mean to you, because you make them angry.

I have extended my hand to reasonable debate. You respond by making arguments from emotion and pity, dodging my arguments, and giving condescending nonsense. Your attitude means you are all but compelled to respond. In light of your actions, you have no right to call anyone else angry for being angry at you.

Now, I expect a response to my two posts. This is how argument works. If you cannot argue against me, then you should stop saying things like:

-The Bible offers kernels of truth

-You cannot see spirituality therefore you are incomplete

-Intelligent Design should be taught in schools

-God does so much for you and you slap him in the face

I personally love the last one. Dont you get it? I'm giving you the chance to defend your God. Like Jefferson said, to fix reason to her seat and call her to judge every tribunal.

Well, now I'm putting god on trial, and you are the defendant's lawyer. And if you cannot defend him, then you better stop spouting such condescending sludge

How do you respond? By whining about mistreatment, starting a thread about it, dodging arguments, making appeals to emotion....

Do not resign from an argument, especially if you cannot admit you are wrong. This is the most dishonest, deceitful, childish, arrogant, stupid, close-minded thing a person can do. If you do not want everyone to look down on you even more, then I suggest chin up and defend your belief.

Like I said before, if you can do that, we will respect you.

Sugarfree, you are right, logic is not the only epistemology. However, religion or lack of it is the basis of someone's entire worldview.  Therefore it should be rationally coherent. You keep claiming you use logic as well as emotion. But I have seen you use no logic whatsoever.

Like I said, when I look at art or listen to music, I am alogical. But like I also said, there is a difference between alogical and illogical. And your arguments from emotion do not change one cold fact: Any entity or concept which is internally contradictory is nonexistent. To state otherwise would break a fundamental axiom of the very fabric of reality itself. So please, I expect a counter to my arguments.

I already brought up that above paragraph almost verbatim. your response? "Your logic puzzles will not work on me". Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds. The fact that you are so thick you cannot tell the difference between two very different words. I was bringing up a definitional argument to show that your argument about only using arguments was totally incoherent and invalid. You could not respond.

Do you see now why you make my blood pressure rise? 

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

Books about atheism


Mjolnin
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back to the question

Before I get too confused with al the threads attached to this, I need some clarificationInitial question.      Original Sin was caused by faith?My logic = No, Original sin is based on a story in the Bible. Believing or not in God becomes irrelevant to the answer since, all answers have to be based on the story and not personal belief. If you believe or not story illustrates that sin entered the Garden through the actions of Adam and Eve.Faith can only acknowledge the existence of sin not cause it. I do not see a path of logic that goes anywhere else. 


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BGH wrote: sugarfree

BGH wrote:

sugarfree wrote:
I need to drag myself away from this dumb computer!

Don't blame the computer, it is inatimate. It can only be as dumb as the operator. 

Is this a joke, or do you really criticize everything I say? I'm asking you, respectfully, to lay off, BGH. I've had enough. You have every right to skip over my posts and I hope in the future that you choose to do so.


sugarfree
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todangst wrote: sugarfree

todangst wrote:
sugarfree wrote:
todangst wrote:
sugarfree wrote:
deludedgod wrote:

This is an extremely irritating excercise.

I agree. And it is apparent that continuing will simply waste both of our time.

Because all you do is dodge his arguments and completely shirk your own responsibility to back up your claims.

No, I can tell we are not going to come to any agreement

NO.

The problem, again is this:

1) You dodge each of his arguments

2) You fail back up your own claims.

Stop lying to yourself about this. 

Do you know me? No, you do not. If you did, you would know, that I simply do not have time to devote to an argument that is going to go nowhere. I have to prioritize my time and this particular argument just doesn't seem like it is going to be worth it in the long run so I am ceasing to engage in it. It is my right to do so.


BGH
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sugarfree wrote: I have to

sugarfree wrote:
I have to prioritize my time and this particular argument just doesn't seem like it is going to be worth it in the long run so I am ceasing to engage in it. It is my right to do so.

Do you realize this is your standard answer to any argument you feel you aren't winning? Come on... the people here just want honest debate from you. If someone makes a good point, you need to acknowledge and concede they may have a point, even if you disagree. 


sugarfree
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deludedgod wrote: In light

deludedgod wrote:
In light of how ridiculous you have been acting, you should drop out of your other thread immediately, where you childishly whine about people being mean to you.
This is nothing personal. You have well developed arguments that you feel strongly about. I respect that. But, I honestly have to pick and choose my battles, and I must choose not to fight this one. It is nothing about you, I just sense we are both stubborn and could go on like this for months. In fact, you and I have already gone back and forth, and always, the outcome is the same.

deludedgod wrote:
If you act like this, people will be mean to you, because you make them angry.

I have extended my hand to reasonable debate.

I sincerely apologize for my abruptness. I respect your opinions and your ability to debate. You are obviously very intelligent.

deludedgod wrote:
Well, now I'm putting god on trial, and you are the defendant's lawyer. And if you cannot defend him, then you better stop spouting such condescending sludge

How do you respond? By whining about mistreatment, starting a thread about it, dodging arguments, making appeals to emotion....

For personal reasons, I need to protect myself from too many of your attacks. It is not healthy for myself, nor for the baby I am attempting to grow.

deludedgod wrote:
Do not resign from an argument, especially if you cannot admit you are wrong. This is the most dishonest, deceitful, childish, arrogant, stupid, close-minded thing a person can do. If you do not want everyone to look down on you even more, then I suggest chin up and defend your belief.
Like I said, for personal reason, I am having to be more careful about how and where I spend my energy.

deludedgod wrote:
Like I said, when I look at art or listen to music, I am alogical. But like I also said, there is a difference between alogical and illogical. And your arguments from emotion do not change one cold fact: Any entity or concept which is internally contradictory is nonexistent. To state otherwise would break a fundamental axiom of the very fabric of reality itself. So please, I expect a counter to my arguments.
I have given you reasons why I believe God is a possiblitity. You do not like them. I cannot force you to change your mind. But to me they are solid. Given that I believe God is a possibility, all of my arguments are going to follow a different path than you. You think my initial deduction about God is false. I respect your opinion, however, I must respect my own more as it is based on my own life experiences which have pointed me squarely in that direction.
deludedgod wrote:
Your logic puzzles will not work on me
They do not because you come from a standpoint of disproving. You have not been able to convince me that I should drop my belief in the possibility of a God, so any logic you throw on top of that is a waste of time. You have not been able to reach the heart of the matter for me.

deludedgod wrote:
Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds. The fact that you are so thick you cannot tell the difference between two very different words.
I'm quite thin actually, but that is going to be changing soon...

deludedgod wrote:
I was bringing up a definitional argument to show that your argument about only using arguments was totally incoherent and invalid. You could not respond.
Like I alluded to earlier, I have more important things to devote my energy to than this back and forth that seems to be going nowhere. Again, it is nothing personal against you, it is simply a personal decision I am having to make for myself.


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it could be the start of

it could be the start of something revolutionary; "Theist comes to own decision"....I can see the headlines now...

No Gods, Know Peace.


Mjolnin
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before I get lost in all

before I get lost in all the threads attached to this, I need some clarification.

Initial Question - Original sin was caused by faith

My logic= No, Original sinis based on a story in the bible. Believing or not is irrelevant to the answer since all answers have to be based on the story and not beliefs. the story illistrates that sin entered the garden through the actions of Adam and Eve. Faith can only acknowledge the existance of sin, not cause it. I do not see a path of logic that goes anywhere else with rational thought


BGH
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BGH wrote: sugarfree

BGH wrote:

sugarfree wrote:
I have to prioritize my time and this particular argument just doesn't seem like it is going to be worth it in the long run so I am ceasing to engage in it. It is my right to do so.

Do you realize this is your standard answer to any argument you feel you aren't winning? Come on... the people here just want honest debate from you. If someone makes a good point, you need to acknowledge and concede they may have a point, even if you disagree.

Sugarfree, please address this. 

 


sugarfree
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BGH wrote: BGH

BGH wrote:
BGH wrote:

sugarfree wrote:
I have to prioritize my time and this particular argument just doesn't seem like it is going to be worth it in the long run so I am ceasing to engage in it. It is my right to do so.

Do you realize this is your standard answer to any argument you feel you aren't winning? Come on... the people here just want honest debate from you. If someone makes a good point, you need to acknowledge and concede they may have a point, even if you disagree.

Sugarfree, please address this. 

 


I think I already addressed it in my post to deluded god. I have nothing to add at this point. I appreciated his comments to me. However, sitting here at the computer and debating takes physical energy. I have decided I have over-committed myself to these threads...mainly over this weekend and I need to cut myself off. This is due to a most recent development in my health, which requires me to be healthy for two.