Bad news for wanna-be ""blasphemers""
Offline Hey kids, Wow, this a very interesting site. ...Someone has put in a lot of time and effort. ........... I do have a comment about your “blasphemy challenge”. .....You have hit on a subject that even a lot of “Christians” do notunderstand. ...... ............................ ............ The historical figure, a man named Jesus, was apparently drawing largecrowds by performing miracles and healing people. ..... ............. .His family and friends were beginning to think he was crazy, and they had just made an attempt to (literally) grab him and take him home. ....... .................................................... In the middle of all of this, the “holier than thou” religious, legalexperts were accusing him of being demon possessed, saying that it was by the power of Satan that he cast out devils and performed miracles. ......................... ............... ........... ...... ........... .......... .................. .......... .......... It was to these people that….. (According to eye witness testimony, copied by a man named “John Mark”)……. .................. .......... ................ .......... anyway, it was to the RELIGIOUS people, that Jesus was speaking, and He told them they were in danger of eternal damnation. .......Why?? Because they….THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS…... (Those who had copied the Old Testament and were in the temple constantly.... the ones who were supposed to be the “experts)…… They underestimated the power of God. ........Because these “RELIGIOUS EXPERTS” accredited the miracles they saw....first hand, to the power of Satan, and not to the power of God. ....And because THESE “HOLY MEN”…RELIGIOUS TEACHERS, WHO PROCLAIMED TOBE “GOD’S" "LAWYERS”,,,… … these men....even though they themselves had spent a lifetime studying, and copying the words of their own prophets….. .... Even though they knew the Words regarding the prediction of a “Christ”……even though they knew every letter of the law….. every mark….. every dot of the “word of God”… Even with all of their "knowledge"..... they did not recognize the very thing they should have known best….the very word of God…..contained in and working through… The Word HIMSELF....the Word that was with God……and the word that WAS God…….this man….Jesus…… the Christ. ...........................................................The very Christ that they claimed to be watching and searching for. ...................................................................
.................................
So, hate to be the bearer of bad news, kids: .................................................................. ANYONE THAT TAKES YOUR "CHALLENGE" IS PROBABLY INCAPABLE OF RE-CREATING THAT SCENARIO AND TRULY BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT. .........................................THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMMIT TO A LOT OF STUDY FIRST, AND THEN SEE A MIRICLE STRAIGHT FROM GOD.......AND THEN SAY SATAN DID IT. ................................................................... ... AND TO DO THAT: THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO TRULY BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A GOD, AND TRULY BELIEVE THERE IS A SATAN. ............................. ........................................................................... Sorry if this disappoints anyone. ........especially anone who had their heart set on a guarantied place in hell....there are no guaranties until you do the "appointed to man once to die" thing....then you get the judgement....until then....it's all up for grabs...even for the worst slimey sinner.............................................................
One other note: There is an interesting Bible that is not the normal “Holy Bible’ that people usually see. ................... It is called the "ARCHIOLOGICAL STUDY BIBLE" and it is full of very clear photographs of artifacts and even has translations of ancient writings that are similar to scriptures in the Bible. It’s also a good book if you like ones with lots of pictures. .......................................Another plus: it does not hide from criticism, and contradiction, but it openly discusses a huge amount of issues, doubts, and controversy............................ Many people who have studied Hebrew and Christian scripture, those who have studied ancient history, and also those that tend toward intellectual arguments, are fascinated by this book. So some of you may like it. Would it do any good to challenge you to go get a copy?? .....
....till then, find a good ol' boring Bible, and read... ...... Deuteronomy 31, verse 24
...... and Deut. 32, verse 3. .................. John, 1 verses 1 through 18- Login to post comments
Holy shit, that changes everything. It's like my world is crumbling.
This argument has already been addressed numerous times, even on YouTube. I don't feel like looking it up right now (been sick). If someone has one of the refutation URLs handy, would you please post it?
Remember that the OP hasn't been here and seen all the conversations, so it would be courteous to get him/her up to speed.
Thank you.
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I haven't been called a "kid" in years, nor, I am sure have most on the site.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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Im I the only one who sees half the post as a bunch of dots?
Well, I'm sure I might be able to either politly critique your points or tear you down depending on your tact, but I just can't read that. What is it with theists and crazy formatting? The abuse of the full-stop doesn't help either.
F-, see me after class.
lookingup.... Thanks for that, I dig your passion. I am an atheist and a Jesus, Mythology, History, Science fan.
Personally I think that "Jesus" would love RRS and it's mission.
It is your good luck you have found this site, and truly friend read the essays by the RRS Authors, Rook and Todangst at left, and the others.
Saving the kids is what it's all about ....
Atheism Books.
A lot of first-time posters have called us "kids." Perhaps it's because Brian, Kelly and Rook are young or relatively young and those are the faces they initially see.
But yes, lookingup, we come in all ages. I'm sort of in the middle somewhere. Others here have ten or twenty years on me.
I also had trouble reading your post due to formatting issues. I did get the gist of it, though. The ideas put forth have already been discussed at length.
Is this enough to get me damned?
Ahem: The Holy Spirit is Satan. Only an unclean spirit could be behind the atrocities committed by the Christian church in the past two thousand years.
I'll do whatever is necessary to make sure I'm damned to hell.
The point of the blasphemy challenge is that we don't believe in god, the bible or any of the silly rules laid out by it. Maybe to fully and properly damn ourselves we need to shout, "Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!" It really doesn't matter because no matter what we do, we can't damn ourselves to a non-existent place built by a non-existent god to punish his creation for non-existent sins committed against non-existent rules.
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I recommend concision and proper formatting. You had us read, in 608 words, what could be said in 11. "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit requires witnessing the Holy Spirit do something."
Consider this response a following of the Bible's teaching: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, irritant for irritant, and belittlement for belittlement.
Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!
This is just another hit and run, notice it was the first post? I hope this person actually reads the responses.
In addition to the refutation of this argument being repeated many times before, it is even more simple than what this apologists is making it out to be.
This Christian can blaspheme Smurfs or Batman, but what exactly would they be doing? Well, that is what we are doing with the "holy spirit"
Blaspheming the holy spirit is like blaspheming Harry Potter or Smurfs. It is not done to show hate or anger at something fictional. It is done to demonstrate to others that there is nothing to be afraid of in the first place. It is like showing a kid the shaddow in their closet is just a shaddow and not a real boogie man.
The "holy spirit" is just a work of fiction people like believing. No bolt of lightening is going to smite you if you speak ill of Thor or Spiderman. And nothing will happen to you if you blaspheme a fictional "holy spirit".
Quote your work of fiction all you want. We are not trying to piss off Micky Mouse, much less the zombie god named Jesus. We are merely demonstrating that boogiemen in the sky dont exist, not Allah, not Yahwey and not yours either. It is nothing but myth.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'm not worried, my dog has secured me a good place in hell. A nice little penthouse overlooking the sea of flame in the lust circle of hell. Prime real estate right there.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Well, that's it for me. I'm convinced. Slap a "Theist" badge on me.
A person who uses that many periods, has got to know what they're talking about.
Not to mention someone who does an "invisible" post you have to highlight to see.
Thanks for the insight..................................... Most of us have never thought deeply about this subject....................................... We just blithely................make claims and hope no one .......................... calls uson it.............. You are a ray of hope to us all ..................... Now, suck it.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
I don't know...the periods were pretty convincing, but I'm not sold until he types his argument in all caps.
This has probably been discussed enough, but I agree that the Blasphemy Challenge is more about not being afraid than anything else. Just like everything else in the bible, everyone tries to "interpret" this part of it however they see fit. This person says that to blaspheme the holy spirit, you have to witness, in person, his "work". Someone stated elsewhere that you have to kill yourself. When I worked as a church musician for six years (yeah, an atheist making money off the church...that probably makes me a hypocrite), the pastor, who had masters degrees in Greek (the language) and theology and has studied ancient Greek bible text, seems to think that in order to blaspheme the holy spirit, you have to claim to possess the power of the holy spirit. Since the idea of the holy spirit was invented by man, and is therefore nothing more than a poorly written, convoluted, overly wordy, uninteresting, contradictory fairy tale, that means that the holy spirit has exactly ZERO power. Therefore, it is very easy for me to claim that I have MORE power than the holy spirit...you know, existence (as opposed to non-existence) has its perks.
You can't rationally argue out something that was not rationally argued in.
People who....................... don't understand..................... what the blasphemy challenge is about will think it's an argument against god.
I couldn't go on with the .'s.
Atheists....... I have good news........ You'll be happy to know that simply being an atheist is enough to earn us a one way ticket to hell where we will happily burn for eternity aside Gandhi and Mother Teresa............ Heck......... who needs the blasphemy challenge anyway............
That post...was typed by...Captain Kirk.
KHAAAAAANNNNNNNN!
omg. re-reading the original post in Kirk-voice is simply hilarious.
If you want me to take anything you said seriously, you're going to first have to learn some respect and stop addressing us as "kids". We're not kids. Brian, Kelly and Rook are in their twenties as am I. And the rest of the people on this forum are adults. So, yeah, learn some respect first, and then we'll talk.
Liberate your mind. Fuck religion.
HYPNO DOTS AND CAPS................................................................... DOTS AND CAPS...................................................................MUST OBEY OBEY
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
Jesus is coming.....................
hold up..........
he's still coming........
wait a second.......................................................this is a like a japanesse video game.
Hmm...I thought Shatner was Jewish.
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Yeah, it's pretty silly to disrespect someone due to youth. There are lots of young people who are worthy of respect and some older people who simply aren't.
Also--and this should be beside the point--a large part of the RRS aren't in their twenties. This includes VIPs like todangst, deludedgod, etc.
I just hit the bit 4-0 back in August, so I don't respond to "hey kid" anymore.
I've been trying to be more courteous to those I suspect of being hit-and-run posters so that we can have a dialogue. It's disappointing when they never show up again.
I invite lookingup to come back and try again.
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Jesus is coming?
Quick, get an umbrella!
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Once i saw all of those dots,i stopped reading.
It's odd that it didn't occur to him during the entire post, that all those convoluted rules don't really even mean anything.
No, you have to see a miracle first! THEN you have to hit Up, Down, B, A, X, Up, Up, Left, and then click the right stick.
It's Up, Up, Dn, Dn, L, R, L, R, B, A, (start) or nothing.
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
Alright kids, that's enough.
Was this post delivered by Western Union telegram? Jesus fucking christ.
As for your point, Mr. OP, a big YAWWWWWWNNNNNNN comin' at ya. Stop boring everyone.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
Hear Hear! Thanks for taking the time to distill it for me. My eyes were beginning to swim just trying to read it.
Stolen from some other website - but I like it:
I really hate that stop
In fact I stopped right there stop
stuntgibbon wins...flawless victory...fatality
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I think the main point is...and I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned or somehow refuted (there are a lot of posts here...it's hard not to miss some).
I think simply put it goes like this: The unforgivable Blasphemy that is spoken of in the bible is nearly impossible to truly perform. You'd have to recreate many circumstances of the time...which is difficult to say the least. Further - you have to actually believe in God and the devil and heaven and hell, or else it's saying something you obviously don't understand the penalty for, giving you a chance to repent whenever you see fit, if you're still breathing that is.
If I'm correct, the Blasphemy Challenge is so people can make a choice and stick to it - well, this is all good and well. But it underestimates Gods mercy. The only sure unforgivable sin is murdering yourself...er...suicide. Since you commit murder, but you can't ask forgiveness for it...that'd be my take on that anyway. Please, PLEASE, don't go committing suicide to prove a point or stick to a belief. As rude as I think the concept of the "Blasphemy Challenge" is, I think doing (as one member put it) "anything" to condemn yourself, is a little silly.
God bless.
Welcome to the forums, Speck
The purpose of the blasphemy challenge is to get atheists to come out the closet, to raise awareness of atheism, and to show Christians that even the worst threats of torment--regardless of whether they're actively presented or passive-aggressively presented--will not make them close their minds and cease being freethinkers.
Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!
Whew - here I was thinking I was about to be bombarded with trolls. haha Umm...off topic question - what're "points" that apparently I get for posting...?
Back on topic - I see. So it's more of a...huge gesture, more than a don't look back sort of thing? Either way, anyone with a true knowledge of what the unforgivable blasphemy is, would only be frustrated that people thought the challenge made any sense... That's what got me right off, was that it seemed to be ill informed...I'm a perfectionist...a procrastinating perfectionist btw...so you can imagine how tough life can be for me, lol - but I hate when things aren't as they should be...I simply feel that the "Blasphemy Challenge" is showing a lack of research into the religion itself. What I mean to say is...to refute, we must first understand...The Blasphemy Challenge is pointless since...everyone sins, and it's little more than doing that. Using the lords name in vain can be considered blasphemy, most everyone has done just that. The Blasphemy Challenge is just asking people to record that sin...in other words, you could just as easily ask for a video of someone having premarital sex or stealing something. (one's porn, and the other's illegal, but you get the point. lol)
God bless
Please, stop it.
Not everyone interprets scripture the same way, and most adherents don't know what they're really practicing anyway, so this 'problem' is pretty academic. The challenge started some dialogs with theists, promoted the RRS and Brian Flemmings's DVD, and emboldened some atheists to speak up. As far as I know, that's all there was to it. The supernatural implications are moot.
That's absolutely hideous. How can anyone believe in a merciful, loving God, while simultaneously believing that he sends depressed, hopeless, and/or mentally ill people to Hell for simply wanting a way out of all their misery? How the hell can a kind person believe that? It's really easy to stop being Christian; all you have to do is really think about things, and I'd think that if my religion had me believing that evil bullshit, I'd find some way to not believe it, because such a belief is morally reprehensible. That statement makes me positively ill. Shame on you for saying such a thing, and in the same fucking paragraph, saying we underestimate your disgusting God's mercy. I sincerely hope that if there is a Hell, it's reserved for sick, sadistic people like you. You're despicable.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
No...?
Oh my...I won't justify that with a response... = P I will however reccommend you look into the actual religion before you pretend to understand it...no offense, but I'm sure you've misunderstood it, and you've misunderstood me. Which is easy sometimes, no harm, no foul.
There are different ways to interpret it sure. But only addressing one interpretation can cause lack of effect and confusion of meaning...haha Plus...it doesn't come off as logical to a large group of others who don't intepret it that way...which is important. However, what works works, but the concept is flawed, and that's all I was pointing out. = )
** -God bless- **
*Sneezes loudly*
Whew, 'scuse me.
Sure, I acknowledge that the theological concept behind the challenge can be interpreted in different ways, but nobody cares. About any of it. The bible is moot. Even if all that happens is a lot of pedantic Christians show up to correct the premise because of their particular interpretation, the conversation has begun.
How have I misunderstood you? Did you or did you not say that suicide is a sure-fire way to be damned? And if I misunderstood you, why would you not want to set me right? Could it be that you just want to allude to some error on my part rather than actually have to find one to point out, so you don't have to sound like an even more ignorant prick? I don't think I stated any facts about your religion; rather I gave my opinion on your ridiculously offensive statement and the god you worship. Clearly you're incapable of actually explaining yourself.
And don't pull that "I'm Christian, so I'm going to be super polite and above it all, because I'm so moral and God loves me and not these people" horse shit. You've already forfeited the moral high ground, and made your true colors absolutely clear.
I............................. ....... Just have........................... something to say..............................................................................................................
YAWN............
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Speck I believe you have found the Dr's hot button. Which by the way I agree with the good (evil?) Dr. If your post didn't clearly say that suicide is a surefire way to be damned to hell I don't know what it said. Of course, I have had religious people scream at me that I am going to hell for a variety of things, none of them suicide.
Personally, I think God (your christian one) is rather vain. I mean really, you can committ mass murder, rape, torture and a variety of horrible acts but if you repent and have faith in me you can sit is heaven. If you live your life as a saint to others but deny his existence to your death you rot in hell. Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex to me.
This site is for learning, so show me where I am wrong. I admit, I have difficulty grasping the Christian God, he is so bipolar and far more illogical than most of the other gods.
Dog Bless
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
This is the whole thing right here... The concept you've described, or rather echoed from other Christians, is not a basis for morality at all. A deed being ok and forgivable as long as you're around to ask for forgiveness? There isn't a separation here at all between right and wrong, it's just "do" and then say you're sorry.
Another way in which I (and many here) are more moral than your god, I'm flatout not going to murder someone, ever. With or without permission or forgiveness from anyone, there's no good reason for me to cause that suffering.
The point of the blasphemy challenge was never to try to go to hell, as most of us don't believe hell even exists. It was to show christianity that we are not afraid of the threats they make of hellfire and damnation by deliberately defying the word of Jesus. Even if the blasphemy clause in the bible was misinterpreted, it only goes to show that the book should not be taken literally, as it is widely open to personal interpretation.
"On mine honour, my friend, [...] there is nothing of all that whereof thou speakest: there is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy body; fear, therefore, nothing any more!"
- from Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra
To those who are offended by the dots, Sorry.
And please forgive how long it has taken to check back in. We all have busy lives. I'm sorry it seemed like a "hit and run".
Also, I find it very interesting being referred to as a "he". Hmmm?
Also, please forgive my greeting everyone as "kids". It is a thing I picked up from one of my sisters. She always called everyone "kid", it didn't matter to her if they were 80 or 8. It was a term of endearment, and a habit that I have now, in her honor.
As for the rest. It would take a long time to explain to you why I believe.
You would have to have walked in my shoes and seen through my eyes the things that I have seen.
I WOULD TYPE IN ALL CAPS IF I THOUGHT THAT WOULD MAKE YOU BELIEVE.
However, belief is something that you have to admit is inside you. You have to quit fighting, railing and kicking against it, PAUL.
Life on this earth is imperfect. There are too many human elements.
That is what you get when you have "free will."
And it would be too simplistic to explain away all pain and heartache by saying that "there is no God."
That is the easy and broad way out.
Faith can be a hard path to follow sometimes.
Hopefully, most Christians remember what it was like to not believe. And, hopefully, if they post here, you will see that they just want you to understand what they have experienced.
I hope that other believers treat you with respect, and that you will treat them with respect also.
As for anyone "proving God" to you?
I do not know; I don't think it is up to me or anyone else to "Prove" God's existence.
You may want to dare God to prove Himself to you. Just ask Him, or yell at Him, or maybe just "think" the challenge to Him.
Never can tell.
As for me, If I never see another miracle, never have another prophetic dream, Never feel His presence again, never see the goodness of the Lord in this land of the living:
I will still believe.
And still pray for those who do not.
love, and God bless.
Hmm... wonder why that is...
Oh yeah, I remember. It's because faith is belief without evidence. Sorry lookingup, but I don't believe in that which has no evidence to support it, especially if belief in that thing would have an enormous impact on my worldview.
The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates
That's a horrible way of going on about it.
You should be questioning your beliefs.