Hitler and Stalin weren't atheists! - Evidences

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Hitler and Stalin weren't atheists! - Evidences

Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin weren't atheists - Evidences

 


 

Last edition: 2007-10-11 / Believers often accuse atheists, that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were atheists... they both were not! Here I collected some evidences, but need some grammar check by Americans or British. I think, this text (especially about Stalin) can be useful in debates. Feel free to use this information anywhere and anyhow you want. Please inform me if you will notice misrepresentation of facts. Vaidotas Jocys ([email protected]) http://vjocys.blogspot.com/

 

DICTATORS "ATHEISTS"

 


 

Adolf Hitler (1889 – 1945) and The Order of The Jesuits

 

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Believers like to lie, that Adolf Hitler was an atheist and killing Jews has nothing to do with religion. The truth is that Adolf Hitler was a Roman Catholic. With his speeches and actions he let to understand not once, that he believes in God, pursues God’s will-plan and even is protected by God. Such thought was obsessed Hitler after many unsuccessful attempts to kill him. And now few quotes form "atheist" Adolf Hitler’s personal book "My Struggle" ("Mein Kampf"):

 

Volume One: A Reckoning (Erster Band: Eine Abrechnung)

 

2. Years of Study and Suffering in Vienna: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

 

2. Kapitel - Wiener Lehr und Leidensjahre: "So glaube ich heute im Sinne des allmächtigen Schöpfers zu handeln: Indem ich mich des Juden erwehre, kämpfe ich für das Werk des Herrn."

 

6. War Propaganda: "Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image."

 

6. Kapitel - Kriegspropaganda: "Mit den Juden, als den modernen Erfindern dieses Kulturparfüms, braucht man sich aber darüber wahrhaftig nicht zu unterhalten. Ihr ganzes Dasein ist der fleisch-gewordene Protest gegen die Ästhetik des Ebenbildes des Herrn."

 

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8. The Beginning of My Political Activity: "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe."

 

8. Kapitel - Beginn meiner politischen Tätigkeit: "Für was wir zu kämpfen haben, ist die Sicherung des Bestehens und der Vermeh-rung unserer Rasse und unseres Volkes, die Ernährung seiner Kinder und Reinhal-tung des Blutes, die Freiheit und Unab-hängigkeit des Vaterlandes, auf daß unser Volk zur Erfüllung der auch ihm vom Schöpfer des Universums zugewiesenen Mission heranzureifen vermag."

 

Volume Two: The National Socialist Movement (Zweiter Band: Die nationalsozialistische Bewegung)

 

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1. Philosophy and Party: "Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise."

 

1. Kapitel - Weltanschauung und Partei: "Wer die Hand an das höchste Ebenbild des Herrn zu legen wagt, frevelt am gütigen Schöpfer dieses Wunders und hilft mit an der Vertreibung aus dem Paradies."

 

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10. Federalism as a Mask: As far as regards that kind of 'patriotic' warrior, on behalf of the National Socialist Movement and therefore of the German people I pray with all my heart: "Lord, preserve us from such friends, and then we can easily deal with our enemies."

 

10. Kapitel - Der Föderalismus als Maske: "Ich kann, was diese Art von "völkischen" Kämp-fern betrifft, der nationalsozialistischen Bewegung und da-mit auch dem deutschen Volke aus aufrichtigstem Herzen nur wünschen: "Herr, bewahre sie vor solchen Freunden, auch sie wird mit ihren Feinden dann schon fertig werden."

 

13. German Alliance Policy after the War: "Almighty God, bless our arms when the hour comes. Be just, as Thou hast always been just. Judge now if we deserve our freedom. Lord, bless our struggle."

 

13. Kapitel - Deutsche Bündnispolitik nach dem Kriege: "Allmäch-tiger Gott, segne dereinst unsere Waffen; sei so gerecht, wie du es immer warst; ur-teile jetzt, ob wir die Freiheit nun verdie-nen; Herr, segne unseren Kampf!"

 

14. Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy: "And this action is the only one which, before God and our German posterity, would make any sacrifice of blood seems justified."

 

14. Kapitel - Ostorientierung oder Ostpolitik: "Und diese Aktion ist die einzige, die vor Gott und unserer deutschen Nachwelt einen Bluteinsatz gerecht-fertigt erscheinen läßt."

 

Adolf Hitler saw atheism as a danger:

 

Adolf Hitler said in 1941-10-14: "Educated man always stands in Reverence facing Creation; he can’t unriddle it’s sensible Greatness; but Uneducated man is in Danger to proceed to Atheism, which means he will be Brutish." (Adolf Hitler: Monologues from the Führer's Headquarter, page 41, published by Orbis Verlag in 2000)

 

Adolf Hitler sagte am 14. Oktober 1941: "Der gebildete Mensch steht immer in Ehrfurcht vor der Schöpfung, die er nicht enträtseln kann, deren Größe er aber empfindet; der Ungebildete hingegen ist in Gefahr, zum Atheismus, das ist zum Vertiert sein, überzuspringen." (Adolf Hitler: Monologe aus dem Führerhauptquartier, seite 41, Orbis Verlag, 2000)

 

"We don't want to educate anyone in atheism." - Adolf Hitler (Table-Talk p. 6)

 

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” (1941, Said by Hitler to General Gerhart Engel) - Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992

 

"I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits…until now there has never been anything more grandiose on the earth than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party." - Hermann Rauschning, Hitler Said To Me (1939), 266-267.

 

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

 

Hitler saw himself as a reformer of Christianity, not as fighter against Christianity. He newer renounced Christ and his Christianity even in Table Talk. He fought against Christians, who, as he thought, corrupted Christianity. He saw himself as Jesus and Martin Luther.

 

"Luther had the merit of rising against the Pope and the organisation of the Church. It was the first of the great revolutions. And thanks to his translation of the Bible, Luther replaced our dialects by the great German language!" (Hitler / Table-Talk p. 9)

 

"The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galiean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 76)

 

"Christ was an Aryan, and St. Paul used his doctrine to mobilise the criminal underworld and thus organise a proto-Bolshevism." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 143)

 

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Just because Hitler tried to create his own version of Christianity and prove, that Jesus was not a Jew, and therefore argued with other Christians - that does not make him unbeliever or anti-Christian. Christians always struggle between each other for "true" Christianity even till blood and accuse each other that their opponents are not "true" Christians – you do the same thing with Hitler. Hitler didn’t reject Christianity as such. He just criticized it’s organized version and therefore later (1936-1938) switched from "Official Christianity" branch to "The Order of Jesuits" branch.

 

If Protestant fights against Catholic version of Christianity, that doesn’t mean that Protestant is not a Christian and doesn’t belong to Christianity. Some people are believers with their personalized-modified understanding of religion or God. And they fight against other religions or organized their forms, or they fight even against organized their own religion. For example: they can think that it is corrupted and perverted, greedy or there is no need in organized religion - God must be private thing, etc..

 

There are no identical standard of Christianity, just each group declare themselves as "standard". Every group and every person is slightly different and has his own modifications of God and how to worship Him. Differences appear from different/subjective experience and knowledge in life and secondary – because of personal modifications. And these modifications always come from a wish to satisfy personal needs with less expense and more easily to pass to Heaven. So if "true" Christianity for you, Mormon or Pope is ONE thing, for Hitler, Mother Teresa, Orthodox or some guy in India it will be OTHER thing. Therefore Christians will always fight for "true" Christianity between each other, as personal needs between people often come in conflict and nobody wants to see himself as fallible. But this doesn't make them non-Christians. Everybody wants to take more than to give. Hitler modified Christianity to make it more profitable for himself (as ALL Christians do without exception – just not all want to admit this for themselves) and honestly believed, that these modifications leads to "true" Christianity. He believed that old type organized Christianity is corrupted. People, who made profit form Hitler’s changes, honestly admitted that these changes led TO more "true" Christianity. Who lost from these changes, started to claim that they led away FROM "true" Christianity. Today‘s Christians are not the ones, who made profit from Hitler’s ideas and changes, …and entirely just because he brought shame on Christianity as a Christian. So of course, today’s Christians opposing Hitler’s changes on Christianity and identify them as factors which distanced Christianity from "true". Therefore they are opposing Hitler’s own identification as "true" Christian, because he does not match today’s Christians subjective conception of what is "true" Christian. Christians just want to wash their hands now and exclude from Christianity members who put them in uncomfortable position.

 

Hitler believed in Christian God, in Christ, went to Christian church and prayed. He has all main Christianity bases. He was the same candy of sh*, just in different wrapping. What about killing? There is one True Christian besides Hitler – God, who lied, cheated, killed, robbed and was a paedophile. So everyone, who commits all these sins, can be Christian too (unless God is an Atheist).

 

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"Atheist" Hitler’s "atheistic" army wore their "atheism" propagating sign on their military uniforms, like buckles "God With Us" ("Gott mit uns"). Some ideas how to persecute and exterminate Jews Hitler just copied from previous Popes. For example to wear special signs and ghettoize Jews was "brilliant" idea of Pope, made-up and described in 1555 year in document "Cum nimis absurdum". It is not big secret that present Pope Joseph Ratzinger was member of "Hitler’s-Youth" ("Hitler-Jugend"). Fascism with Mussolini borned and developed in Italy too. People, who know geography well, can tell easily where Vatican is Smiling.

 


 

Joseph Stalin (1878 – 1953) and Orthodox Christian Church of Russia

 

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Not only Adolf Hitler was a believer. Josef Stalin - The bloodiest communist regime dictator was not an ATHEIST(!), but RELIGIOUS COMMUNIST. He was believer. Stalin born in 1878, received more power and started his mass murder journey through corpses in 1922 and died in 1953.

 

1. Stalin grow-up in religious family and it was planed that he will become a priest. Therefore Stalin received religious education in Gori Church‘s School (from 1888-09-... to 1894-06-...) and Tbilisi Priest‘s Seminary (from 1894-09-01 to 1899-07-29) which he didn’t accomplished because he entered Revolution movement. Likely, those ideas about defending poor people and that rich people will go to hell or at least for them will be hard to go to (communistic) heaven... no doubt that Stalin collected such ideas from his religious education. In the Bible itself there are explanations that it will be hard to go to Heaven for rich people and they are oppressors of the poor. "All capital/property is evil and rich people must gift their property to poor" – was not too far from The Bible and teachings of Christ as Christians wants to present now. For example:

 

Bible:NT:Mat:19:23-24 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

Bible:NT:Ja:2:5-6 "Listen, my beloved brethren. Has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you, is it not they who drag you into court?"

 

Bible:NT:Ja:5:1 "Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you."

 

Bible shows that if you want to be real believer, you must resign your possessions to poor and have common property, like communists and planned:

 

Bible:NT:Lu:12:33 "Sell your possessions, and give alms; provide yourselves with purses that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys."

 

Bible:NT:Mar:10:21-22 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

 

Bible:NT:Ac:2:44-45 And all who believed were together and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need.

 

Sometimes people think that communism (latin: commun=to share / collective property – no private property) was atheistic idea. But they forgot, how property was and is managed in Church and monasteries, where is no private property – this is pure communism in all its glory. It seems that Church and monasteries adopted and realized "atheistic" ideas of shared property thousands of years before revolution in Russia even started. And when you read the Bible, you can see that Christ followers and his band lived as pure atheists too.

 

2. Stalin wrote poems in Georgian language. They are so good that were being published in local magazines. Few fragments sounds so (translation from Georgian to Russian language by L.Kotiukov (Л. Котюков), Newspaper "Duel" N10(101)1999-03-09. "Poet Josef Dzhugashvili" (Газета "Дуель", "Поет Иосиф Джугашвили" N 10(101) 1999-03-09. Б.М. Гунько)):

 

(...) In his burden and song

like the beam of the Sun,

lived great truth –

Divine dream.

 

(...) But people who forgot God,

with darkness in their hearts,

instead of wine served poison

to him in the cup.

 

And told to him: "Damn you!

Drink this cup to the bottom!...

And your song is alien for us,

and we don’t need your truth!"

 

В напеве его и в песне,

Как солнечный луч чиста,

Жила великая правда -

Божественная мечта.

 

Но люди, забывшие Бога,

Хранящие в сердце тьму,

Вместо вина отраву

Налили в чашу ему.

 

Сказали ему: "Будь проклят!

Чашу испей до дна!...

И песня твоя чужда нам,

И правда твоя не нужна!"

 

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3. Stalin’s daughter Svetlana Alliluyeva Stalin said (documentary "Mysteries of the Century: Kremlin Kids" ("Тайны века" - "Дети Кремля") 2003-03-19, 1 Channel 1 Russia), how Stalin told her that Christ existed.

 

Journalist: It is interesting, that from all Kremlin’ residents, maybe, just Stalin believed in God...

 

S.Alliluyeva: In fathers library, between other books, were few tomes of "Christ". It was history of Christ written by vox populist Morozov. I said to my father: "But Christ didn’t exist!" and he answered "Oh no, Christ, surely existed."

 

Ведущий: Интересно, что из обитателей Кремля, наверное, только Сталин верил в Бога...

 

С.Аллилуева: У отца среди книг в библиотеке стояли несколько томов "Христос". Это история Христа, написанная народовольцем Морозовым. Я сказала отцу: "Но ведь Христос не существовал!". А он ответил "Да нет, Христос, конечно, существовал".

 

In other-bigger Interview to Russian magazine "Version" ("Версия") and second Russian TV channel RTR (1998) Svetlana spoke more about her father’s belief in God. She said, that later Stalin told her history of Christ. And she thinks that he was believer.

 

Stalin‘s wife Nadezhda maybe was an atheist, because she denied for nannies to talk about God with kids. But it was not big problem - by official version (maybe with God‘s help Smiling Nadezhda shoot herself in 1932. Maybe it is symbolic, that her name means "Hope" Smiling. Stalin’s daughter said that after mother’s death Stalin lost everything human in him. We can conclude from this, that Stalin told about Christ to his daughter before year 1932. Other thing, Stalin told about Christ to his daughter after she showed interest in Stalin‘s personal library book from series "Christ".

 

4. At meeting of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee in 1933-09-12 Stalin gave speech where he told not to destroy and but prevent churches. Fragment of his speech sounds so: "Central Committee considers that it is impossible to designing buildings with destruction of temples and churches, what we must treat like monuments of architecture by Old Russian heritage. Agencies of the Soviet authority and workers'-villagers' militia are obliged to take measures down to the disciplinary and party responsibility on protection of monuments of architecture by Old Russian heritage."

 

Выписка из протокола заседания политбюро ЦК от 12.09.33 г.: "ЦК считает невозможным проектирование застроек за счет разрушения храмов и церквей, что следует считать памятниками архитектуры древнерусского зодчества". Органы Советской власти и рабоче-крестьянской милиции обязаны принимать меры вплоть до дисциплинарной и партийной ответственности по охране памятников архитектуры древне русского зодчества." Секретарь ЦК И.Сталин.

 

5. Under Stalin‘s insisting In 1939-11-11, Politburo of the Central Committee has admitted prosecutions of believers "inexpedient". In 1939-11-11 Stalin canceled Lenin's instruction from May, 1st, 1919 for N 13666-2 "About struggle against priests and religion" and gave orders to People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs (NKVD) to release from custody already arrested priests "if activity of these citizens didn’t harm the Soviet authority".

 

Выписка из протокола заседания политбюро ЦК от 11.11.39 г. В отношении к религии, служителям Русской Православной Церкви и православно верующим ЦК постановляет:

 

1) Признать нецелесообразным впредь практику органов НКВД СССР в части арестов служителей русской православной церкви, преследование верующих.

 

2) Указание товарища Ульянова (Ленина) от 1 мая 1919 года за №13666-2 "О борьбе с попами и религией", адресованных пред. ВЧК товарищу Дзержинскому и все соответствующие инструкции ВЧК-ОГПУ-НКВД, касающиеся преследования служителей русской православной Церкви и православно верующих, - отменить.

 

3) НКВД произвести ревизию осужденных и арестованных граждан по делам, связанных с богослужительской деятельностью. Освободить из-под стражи и заменить наказание на не связанное с лишением свободы осужденным по указанным мотивам, если деятельность этих граждан не нанесла вреда советской власти.

 

4) Question about destiny of believers from other confessions, who are under arrest, CC will rise additionally.

 

From section four we can see that Stalin was not well-wished for all religions - he defended just HIS own religion - Christian deviation: Russian Orthodox Church.

 

4) Вопрос о судьбе верующих, находящихся под стражей и в тюрьмах, принадлежащих иным конфессиям, ЦК вынесет решение дополнительно.

 

Секретарь ЦК И.Сталин

 

Lenin was an atheist and banned religion mostly because Church was rich and supported Monarchy-Tsar (Bible:NT:Ro:13:1 "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.") - was against parliamentarian government system and by that government was hanged his brother. Other thing, psychologist Giunter Cruse, who examined Vladimir Ulajnov’s (Lenin) genealogy tree, found that Lenin’s grandmother was burned on fire as which. Lenin has his reasons not to like Church. But even Lenin scraped with Stalin and tried to keep him from power until was alive because of Stalin’s cruelty. Why Russians hated church, especially after war? Church was flirting with Nazi in World War Two (Pius XI signed friendly agreement with Mussolini in 1929 and with Hitler in 1934). Fascism was born with Mussolini in Italy (Vatican’s cradle). It is good that USSR government didn’t see pedophile scandals - situation could be worse (no talking about Inquisition ant Crusaders). So it is normal, that Russians revenged to all, who collaborated with Nazi and fascists.

 

6. Juri Solowjew (Stalin’s Personal Guard for 10 years) claimed that in World War Two Stalin went to small Kremlins Church. (French, Austrian, Germany and Russian documentary "Inside the Kremlin: In the Heart of Russia" by Thomas Schreiber (2005, NDR Television in cooperation with Channel 1 Russia). It could be between years 1939 and 1945.

 

In interview to newspaper "Area the Falcon" with the head of the "Temple of All Sacred" Michael Aleksandrovich Rodin told: "Joseph Vissarionovich comes during war in our temple to pray. And even today there are parishioners alive - a few very older persons which remember this fact and saw Stalin themselves. Stalin as tell, came to a temple three times and long faced to two icons - Nikolay Chudotvorets and Kazan Divine Mother. Joseph Vissarionovich has not stood all service, its visits last 15-20 minutes."

 

В интервью для газеты "Район Сокол" старостой Храма Всех Святых Михаил Александрович Родин сказал: "Сам Иосиф Виссарионович заезжал во время войны в наш храм помолиться. У нас и сегодня живы прихожане - несколько очень пожилых людей, которые помнят этот факт и сами видели Сталина. Сталин, как рассказывают, приезжал в храм трижды и подолгу стоял перед двумя иконами - Николая Чудотворца и Казанской Божьей Матери. Всю службу Иосиф Виссарионович не выстаивал, его визиты длились минут по 15-20."

 

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7. In 1942-1943 Stalin started to organze meetings with priests and incited to reopened Churches, seminaries, academies, publish religious magazines in "communistic speed" (as quick as possible) and promised full support. There are some documented speeches from these meetings:

 

M.I.Odincov "Russian patriarchs of XX century" year 1994, № 34 note of G.G.Karpov about Russian patriarchs welcome by J.V.Stalin 286 page (Одинцов М.И. "Русские патриархи ХХ века." 1994 год, № 34 записка Г.Г.Карпова о приеме И.В.Сталиным иерархов Русской Православной Церкви 286 стр.).

 

"Comrade Stalin told: "Well, as you want, this is your business and if you want theological class, begin with them, but the Government will not have objections and against opening seminaries and academies."

 

"Тов. Сталин сказал: "Ну, как хотите, это дело ваше, а если хотите богословские курсы, начинайте с них, но Правительство не будет иметь возражений и против открытия семинарий и академий."

 

"Comrade Stalin has told, that the church can count on comprehensive support of the Government in all questions connected with its organizational strengthening and development inside of the USSR and that, as he spoke about the organization of spiritual educational institutions, not objecting to opening of seminaries in dioceses so there cannot be obstacles and to opening managements of candle factories at eparchial and other manufactures."

 

"Тов. Сталин сказал, что церковь может рассчитывать на всестороннюю поддержку Правительства во всех вопросах, связанных с ее организационным укреплением и развитием внутри СССР, и что, как он говорил об организации духовных учебных заведений, не возражая против открытия семинарий в епархиях, так не может быть препятствий и к открытию при епархиальных управлениях свечных заводов и других производств."

 

"Then, addressing to me, Stalin has told: "It is necessary to provide the right of the bishop to dispose church's sums (money). It is no need to do obstacles for the organization of seminaries, candle factories, etc."

 

"Затем, обращаясь ко мне, т. Сталин сказал: "Надо обеспечить право архиерея распоряжаться церковными суммами. Не надо делать препятствий к организации семинарий, свечных заводов и т. д.".

 

8. English historian Simon Sebag Montefiore studied Stalin’s hobbies and personal library, what Stalin liked to read, what kind of marks he left in his books. He found that Stalin liked to quote long quotes from the Bible. Stalin left such mark about God in the book by Anatole France "Last pages. Dialogues under a rose. About God": "Don‘t know traces, don‘t see. There is no Him for them." ("Следов не знают, не видят. Его для них нет."). It seems that Stalin thought he knew God’s traces and saw God, not like others.

 

Stalin "denied categorically to prescribe atheistic literature to his personal library, fastidiously calling it ""antireligious waste-paper (junk)"". ("Secret life of Stalin : By materials of his books and archive : According to Stalinism" by Ilizarov.B.S. 2004)

 

Сталин "категорически запрещал выписывать в свою личную библиотеку атеистическую литературу, брезгливо называя ее "антирелигиозной макулатурой."" (Илизаров Б. С. "Тайная жизнь Сталина : По материалам его библиотеки и архива : К историософии сталинизма". 2004)

 

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9. Stalin "hated" religion so much, that in 1951-06-27 he gaved "Stalin’s Prize" to English clergyman Hewlett Johnson. Various prizes under Soviet authority received and other priests.

 

10. Stalin's "pure atheistic" funeral. Honorary guard near Stalin's coffin.

 

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Speech of the most holy patriarch Moscow and all Russia Aleksii before requiem on I.V.Stalin, told in the patriarchal cathedral in day of Stalin's funeral (9.03.1953): "There is no more the great Leader of our people, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin. Great, moral, public force was abolished: force in which our people felt own force, in which was supervised in the creative works and the enterprises, in which was consoled for many years. There is no area where the deep look of the great Leader would not get. People of a science were surprised by his deep scientific awareness in the diversified areas, by his ingenious scientific generalizations; militaries – by his military genius; people of the most various work invariable received from him strong support and valuable instructions. As ingenious person he opened that was invisible and inaccessible to ordinary mind in each business.

 

About his intense cares and feats during Great Domestic war, about his ingenious management of the military actions, which gave us a victory over the strong enemy and in general above fascism; about his many-sided immense daily works on management, on a management of state affairs - vastly and convincingly spoke and in a press, and, especially, at last farewell today, in day of his funeral, his the nearest co-workers. His name as the advocate of world peace, and his famous acts will live in centuries.

 

We, who gathered for a pray about him, cannot pass with silence of his always benevolent, sympathizing attitude to our church needs. Any question with which we to him addressed, has not been rejected by him; he satisfied all our requests. And a lot of kind and useful, owing to his high authority, it is made for our Church by our Government.

 

Memory of him for us unforgettable, and our Russian Orthodox Church, mourning over his leaving from us, escorting him to last way, "in a way of all word", with a hot pray.

 

In these sad for us days, from different directions of our Fatherland from bishops, clergy and believers, and from abroad from Heads and representatives of Churches as orthodox, and other-believers, I receive set of telegrams which are informing about prays about him and condoling with us on the occasion of this sad loss for us.

 

We prayed for him when the message about his heavy illness has come. And now, when there is no more him, we pray for the world of his immortal soul.

 

Yesterday our special delegation in structure of high ordained metropolitan Nikolay; the representative of the episcopate, clergy and believers of Siberia of archbishop of the Palladium; the representative of the episcopate, clergy and believers of Ukraine of archbishop Nikona and ??? Nikolay, has assigned a wreath to his coffin and has bowed on behalf of Russian Orthodox Church to his dear ashes.

 

The pray, fulfilled with Christian love, reaches the God. We believe, as our pray about deceased will be heard by the Lord. Both to our loved and unforgettable Joseph Vissarionovich we devoutly, with deep, passionate love proclaim eternal memory."

 

Речь святейшего патриаха Московского и всея Руси Алексия перед панихидой по И.В.Сталине, сказаная в патриаршем соборе в день его похорон (9.03.1953 г.): "Великого Вождя нашего народа, Иосифа Виссарионовича Сталина, не стало. Упразднилась сила великая, нравственная, общественная: сила, в которой народ наш ощущал собственную силу, которою он руководился в своих созидательных трудах и предприятиях, которою он утешался в течение многих лет. Нет области, куда бы не проникал глубокий взор великого Вождя. Люди науки изумлялись его глубокой научной осведомленности в самых разнообразных областях, его гениальным научным обобщениям; военные - его военному гению; люди самого различного труда неизменно получали от него мощную поддержку и ценные указания. Как человек гениальный, он в каждом деле открывал то, что было невидимо и недоступно для обыкновенного ума.

 

Об его напряженных заботах и подвигах во время Великой Отечественной войны, об его гениальном руководстве военными действиями, давшими нам победу над сильным врагом и вообще над фашизмом; об его многогранных необъятных повседневных трудах по управлению, по руководству государственными делами - пространно и убедительно говорили и в печати, и, особенно, при последнем прощании сегодня, в день его похорон, его ближайшие соработники. Его имя, как поборника мира во всем мире, и его славные деяния будут жить в веках.

 

Мы же, собравшись для молитвы о нем, не можем пройти молчанием его всегда благожелательного, участливого отношения к нашим церковным нуждам. Ни один вопрос, с которым бы мы к нему ни обращались, не был им отвергнут; он удовлетворял все наши просьбы. И много доброго и полезного, благодаря его высокому авторитету, сделано для нашей Церкви нашим Правительством.

 

Память о нем для нас незабвенна, и наша Русская Православная Церковь, оплакивая его уход от нас, провожает его в последний путь, "в путь всея земли", горячей молитвой.

 

В эти печальные для нас дни со всех сторон нашего Отечества от архиереев, духовенства и верующих, и из-за границы от Глав и представителей Церквей, как православных, так и инославных, я получаю множество телеграмм, в которых сообщается о молитвах о нем и выражается нам соболезнование по случаю этой печальной для нас утраты. Мы молились о нем, когда пришла весть об его тяжкой болезни. И теперь, когда его не стало, мы молимся о мире его бессмертной души.

 

Вчера наша особая делегация в составе Высокопреосвященного митрополита Николая; представителя епископата, духовенства и верующих Сибири архиепископа Палладия; представителя епископата, духовенства и верующих Украины архиепископа Никона и протопресвитера о. Николая, возложила венок к его гробу и поклонилась от лица Русской Православной Церкви его дорогому праху. Молитва, преисполненная любви христианской, доходит до Бога.

 

Мы веруем, что и наша молитва о почившем будет услышана Господом. И нашему возлюбленному и незабвенному Иосифу Виссарионовичу мы молитвенно, с глубокой, горячей любовью возглашаем вечную память."

 

Image

 

So, Stalin’s love to religion was not just right before his death, but started much earlier. Some people say, that Stalin reopened religion just because Hitler in Germany planed to attack Russia (therefore it is strange why Stalin didn’t believed, that Germany attacking USSR borders and argue that it is just propaganda by enemies right after invasion)... blah blah blah. Ok, maybe he told stories of Christ to his daughter Svetlana because he afraid Hitler too Smiling? But even if so... it seems, that Stalin understood power of religion and if you want to send people to death ant kill others... the best help for that purpose can provide... religion. When you know, that Heaven is waiting for you after death, you can die with smile on your face. For deserts to religion and recreation of church in Russia, some groups even started initiative to declare Stalin as saint.

 

Why Stalin was so cruel? Violent father, Church School and Priest’s Seminary formed his view to the World and how he can treat it. This had impact to his actions.

 

I.V.Stalin remembered: "From the protest against a humiliating regime and Jesuit methods which were in seminary, I was ready to become and really became the revolutionist, the supporter of Marxism (auth. notice: not(!) Atheism), as really revolutionary doctrine." – so we can thank for Stalin what he was to …Priest’s Seminary.

 

И.В. Сталин вспоминал: "Из протеста против издевательского режима и иезуитских методов, которые имелись в семинарии, я готов был стать и действительно стал революционером, сторонником марксизма, как действительно революционного учения."

 


 

USSR and COMMUNISM

 

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USSR was not an ATHEISTIC, but COMUNISTIC/SOCIALISTIC republic’s union. People often don’t understand difference between Communism/Socialism and Atheism/Theism – one ideology is about "humans(rich) vs humans(poor)", other - "humans(all) vs God". Church functioned and was not fully oppressed in USSR – maybe, because KGB very successfully used it to spy on people through confessions. Church in USSR was separated from Government IN THE SAME WAY(!) as in USA, European Union and other civilized parts of the World. Because property of Churches was nationalized, Church and believers (especially in the West) started to conclude that it was "Atheistic" regime (of course, just atheists are capable to kill, rob and take neighbors property by force Smiling, but they "forgot" that property (in the same way) was taken from all atheists too... but atheists didn’t conclude that it was "Christian" regime. Thing is that Church had more property than atheists (absolutely minority in society) at that time. Russia just now reached 24% atheists in state. Christianity itself has large experience in killing and robbing for example in the same Crusaders – you don't need to be an atheist for that. Religion organized predatory invades itself not once – it is enough to read The Bible or learn history – it is in religion’s blood. In Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia (Theravada Buddhist 95%, other 5%) statistically almost all (~100%) people at that time were BELIEVERS! For example in Lithuania in "1923 population census" 100% of population were believers. It is wrong to think, that in these countries (like Russia in 1917) communistic revolution (Great October Socialist Revolution) was realized by atheists – they were absolutely minority. There were believers who marched with guns on the streets. Even in North Korea church’s influence to government is minimized but churches and monasteries are open. Communism it is not about believing or unbelieving in GOD (atheism/theism), but about COLLECTIVE PROPERTY (commun=collective/shared). Communism didn’t destroyed religion but preserved it. In Communistic block countries there are more believers than in Western Europe (capitalistic countries). For example atheist‘s/agnostic‘s amount (www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html):

 

Japan 64%

Sweden 46%

Denmark 43%

France 43%

Belgium 42%

Germany 41%

Netherlands 39%

Britain 31%

-------------------

Russia 24%

China 8%

 

Image Image

 

Communism (commun=collective/shared) is bad, because it contradict Darwin’s Evolution theory - unnatural equalization and collective/shared property removes natural selection and competition – motive, why to be better than others. People's needs always are larger, than possibilities and this force them not to enjoy what they have and push to move forward. Restriction of possibilities to supply self needs by setting some top limit it is the same as restriction enthusiasm to reach something higher. Governments must let to do everything if someone’s actions and reached benefit are not less than made harm to others in the reaching process. Everything what supply and does not include everyone else against their will – must be normal ant allowable. Problem is, that regarding to old convictions (maybe they were useful in old world model, but lost sense in new), not all people catch progress and slow down all train. Besides, even where religion power was not strong were no killings exactly in the name of atheism. You will not find banners or flags with words like "Atheism with us" and exhortation for atheist to unite and kill theists. Of course, not all atheists are good and all theists – bad. You can find bad people between atheists too. But believers often incrimination atheists what did believers. Maybe, it is difficult for theists to realize, that morality can come from human consciousness and lessons learned from narrow social relations with other humans, understanding, that you depend not only from yourself, but from others as well. And how you will treat others – others will treat you. Morality does not come just from God or priest‘s lectures. Thanks to Evolution and competition, survived these in which brains formatted behavior model to care about each other – groups, which members didn’t avoided compensate others (collective) weakness with their strongness survived better. It is was harder to attack and destroy that camp at cold night where weak-sleepy guard was not leaved with his own problem, but sometimes someone gave him hot tea or he was replaced by stronger-bouncy guard, letting him to sleep-rest and later to take post again... planning that latter he will help them who helped him.

 

Some Pol Pot fought against Buddhist RELIGION, therefore he was an atheist?

Some Muslim fought against Christian RELIGION, therefore he was an atheist.

Some Protestant fought against Catholic RELIGION, therefore he was an atheist.

 

If some person (like Stalin or Pol Pot) fights against some religion or religions, it doesn’t mean automatically, that he is an atheist. Some people are believers with their personalized-modified understanding of religion or God. And they fight against other religions or organized their own religion. For example: they can think that it is corrupted and perverted or there is no need in organized religion - God must be private thing, etc.. To accuse someone in atheism, you must refer not just what against that person fights, but refer to what that person supports, to his personal-positive views on atheism and religion. Stalin murdered almost all Soviet military elite before WW2… does it mean that he was anti-Soviet? Stalin killed communists as flies - does it make him anti-Communist? He saw this as clearing / purifying. For Stalin to murder someone was not a big deal... he just spread tickets to Heaven with light hand. How the Papal legate Arnaud-Amaury once said: "Kill them all! Surely the Lord discerns which ones are his". Christians slaughtered each other in thousands during all history. Does it make them non-Christians? Pol Pot fought against organized Buddhism, but… his regime’s core was trying to suppress individuality, therefore he tried to eliminate all differences between humans. Strange as that might seem… but this conception was inspired directly from the same Buddhism. Pol Pot studied at a Buddhist monastery and a Roman Catholic school too. So it would be nice, that believers would not throw all responsibility for Pol Pot’s behaviour and ideas on atheists. Pol Pot in his behaviour was stunningly irrational, illogical and totally stupid. He exterminated educated people, doctors, teachers – important part of atheism base. It would be nice to see more clear evidences, that he was an atheist than just: "Communism=Atheism" and "If you fight some denomination of religion you are an atheist".

 

VIOLENCE from RELIGION

 

Idea of Hell leads to violence. What is the point of the Hell? If Hell will be eternal suffering, then there is no final point, just pointless torture. If point is torture, until sinner will understand his sins, then isn't better way to make human to understand something – knowledge and education? If child committed mistake-sin (for example sealing or animal beating), what would be better to do to make sure that he would not mistake-sin again? Sit down and talk with him, explain how World works, explain social links, why stealing is bad, because it ruins society - his own environment, his life, how animals suffer and feel pain, explain about reversible effect of all actions, until he will understand (of course not all parents are smart and able to explain everything). Or it is better to beat your child, strip his nails off, scald his flesh with hot water and torture him? We all know that kids, who experienced violence in childhood from others (like Stalin), later are more violent. Raped become a rapists, beaten become a beater. If you beat your child for his mistakes-sins, with every strike your install in his brains conception, that beating is acceptable method to achieve your goals (especially when you are stronger). It makes beating OK if somebody doesn’t act how you like/want. That is why beaten in childhood beat others in the same way later, trying to achieve his goals, as same as his authority (father/mother) did in the past. Christian "education" idea through torture in Hell - is primitive, violent, and stupid. Whole civilised World knows already that if you want to grow a good human, you do it with education and knowledge, not with violence and torture (because people learn by copying others). Otherwise schools would be torture chambers. The main purpose and idea should be to repair broken humans in humane schools, not to destroy them finally in Hell by showing them new limits of sadism and torture. Is God so stupid and primitive that He doesn’t know better way to teach, than just through torture? Does He give priority to fist over intellect? Or it is just some stupid and primitive Christians with big fists and small brains are trying to apply what they master best? Therefore they created for themselves imaginable place, to enjoy in their minds suffering of those who don’t agree with them... and in such way they compensate their dissatisfaction in reality. If you can’t win opponent in reality, you can at least enjoy torturing him in your mind. Idea of Hell show us, how sick and sadistic in its core can be Christianity. Christianity still teaches conception of Hell and still don’t "understand", why religious fanatics as Hitler and Stalin (who received religious education) were so brutal and violent. Inquisition (tortures were used to retrieve lost sheeps to "right" patch and suffer for sins) was the same idea of Hell brought us into Earth by Church Inc. Until idea of Hell is alive, idea of Inquisition, teaching and achieving goals through torture and sadism is alive too.

 

Religion always leads to Inquisition with “Disprove God existence!”

 

Every time, when you make proposition and ask someone else to disprove this, you make an Inquisition act.

In modern society court uses innocent presumption - when man reputed as innocent, until his guilt is not proved. Prove of guilt (proposition) must present accuser (proposer).

Inquisition operated conversely. Inquisition court used guilty presumption - when someone threw proposition-accusation, and accused person was reputed as guilty… until disproving that he is not. And to disprove proposition-accusation supposed accused person. This let very easily to cope (crucify) with everybody by throwing any ridiculous propositions-accusations-claims …like “he is cooperating with the devil” or “she is a witch”. And it was more easier in the past, because accused person, who supposed to defend himself and desperately search for evidences of his innocence, as usual was imprisoned (as already guilty). And it is hard to find evidences for that, what never existed and exists. What evidence has nothing? Of course, the best evidence for nothing is ...nothing. But accusers wanted ...something... to disprove their nothing. In religious discussions between theists and atheists... theists until now throw proposition, that God exists, and waiting disproof of this proposition from atheists – what atheists almost always and try to do. Believers just rest and wait some visible or touchable evidences which could prove their ...nothingnone-existing God. Therefore atheists try to replace God-nothing with something (scientific explanations of things and events). Situation looks like Christians are waiting for some touchable and visible evidences for vacuum. Believers cannot prove their proposition (God) until now, so until now they are trying to use Inquisition tactics (guilty presumption) in debates. Therefore it is important always to alarm, when religion gain more power in society and society’s’ law, which determine human’s lives. Because until now... religion and its followers in thinking and methods are not more advanced as far as in 16 ages. I saw and see this guilt presumption method in religious society very often. Like newest - war in Iraq: People started war with Iraq believing in weapons of mass destruction without supporting these claims by strong evidences. And I saw and see this often in private lives, when people cope with their opponents by throwing accusations without evidences. Ant people don’t need evidences… all what they need it is just blind faith-belief and desire to crucify somebody. I care for better society for me and, maybe, my kids – this is reason, why I try to remove religious thinking and replace it by logic and reason.

 

Religion leads to populism and demagogy in politics and personal life.

 

At first I will present word of God from the Bible:

 

Bible:Ps:128:4 Lo, thus shall the man be blessed who fears the LORD.

Bible:Jo:20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (Who believe without evidences)

 

Religion-belief is directly involved in spreading not just guilt presumption, but also message, that somehow blind belief-faith without evidences has great value and even greater than belief based on evidences. After proposition, that God exists, believers still hold position that God exists… until His existence is not disproved by somebody (like atheists). Thanks to such thinking, anyone can throw proposition and people believe and accept it as truth without supporting evidences. And when it is accusation - consider accused person as a criminal. And in some cases even crucify him, if accused person is not capable in right time to disprove accusations – not all accused persons are very smart enough to do this. There is absolutely reversed situation in sceptic’s society, because sceptics appeal not on belief, but on evidences. And when somebody throws proposition or accusation, proposer-accuser must prove his claims himself. People request to show clear evidences for proposition-accusation in the first place. And just after that, when evidences are presented, proposition-accusation reputed as true and accused person as guilty. (As existence of God reputed as true just when His existence is proved with clear evidences). Incompetence or not-knowing, how to explain some things and events, are NOT evidences of God! It is evidences of incompetence and lack of person’s knowledge. It is not surprise, when unknowing person tries to present his unknowingness as “advantage” – he feels better when thinks that he at least has something valuable – his unknowingness – Jesus(God-Authority) personally value that... and who cares about small humans. It is not hard to understand, why in sceptic’s society, which appeals on evidences, more dominates innocent presumption and objective opinion …and in believer’s society, which appeals on propositions and belief without evidences, more dominates guilt presumption and bigger risk of preconceived opinion. Therefore in it very easy to crucify anybody with sometimes absolutely ridiculous claims - it is why believer’s society is not safe. It is why in believer’s society prospers injustice, populism and demagogy. It is why in believer’s society can win orators, who spiel with their gold-toque and give unreal promises without clear evidences, how these promises will be realized. People value persons (for example politics and priests) who can lie more and better without shame, who promise bigger golden mountains and Heaven for everyone. People value their leaders not just for what they already did today, but what they promise to do in the future too. And the more stronger is belief (blind faith)… the more overrated are promises over already realized tasks. It is why in America and other countries politics strongly support religion – it is wide open gate for them to trick-full common people, get power and control them. It is why I am against religion. It is why I support science, education, knowledge and appealing on clear evidences (not on blind belief-faith). Science, education, knowledge and appealing on clear evidences leads us to safer society and reduces possibilities for liars and bulshiters to enter politics and gain power …and doesn’t let to crucify innocent people so easily by setting against them blind crowd. And it is more difficult to reach agreement or right decision (for example in the same family) between two different opinions holding believers than between two persons, who base their arguments on logic and strong evidences.

 

Even if suppose that Hitler and Stalin were not religious themselves, but just exploited RELIGION of their people to realize ideas... this shows... that Hitler and Stalin appealed exactly on RELIGION (Christianity) to gain full power and realize their ideas more easily.

 

Vaidotas Jocys ([email protected])


Cpt_pineapple
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Hitler, like Haeckel before

Hitler, like Haeckel before him, praised Sparta because he considered Sparta to be the first "Völkisch State," and endorsed what he perceived to be an early eugenics treatment of deformed children:


At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch State. The exposure of the sick, weak, deformed children, in short, their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses.

~Adolf Hitler 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MADNESS? THIS IS SPARTA!

 


LiberalHearted
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Hitlers Letters

Quote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=486435&in_page_id=1770

"We don't want to know about the government any more – we only want Adolf Hitler as leader, as dictator. "We National Socialists want to see a ban on all newspapers that inject poison into our Fuehrer, to see Jews classified as what they are, a reckoning with all local government chiefs who have cheated their citizens. "We will give our blood to Adolf Hitler! Take an iron hand and fulfill you programme with a dictatorial will. Do not negotiate but act!

"We trust our Fuehrer and donate to him our hearts with every pulse!"

There are postcards from Nazi party members holidaying in Majorca, letters from lovelorn women - "I would like to make you my little puppy my dear, my eternal, my lovely Adolf" – and from party bigwigs who crept shamelessly in print to their boss. "My desire! It is swelling across all the German countryside – a cry! A single, powerful, longing cry! Heil Hitler, you who sees off all enemy gangs, Heil Hitler and make us free again!" said Karl Leiff, leader of a Nazi party regional office in eastern Germany in December 1931.

He added: "If only all Germans could be as pure of heart and as noble of purpose as you." Hitler was said to despise this kind of blatant crawling.

But Elsa Walter was the kind of woman who epitomised his misty-eyed view of German womanhood.

She penned to him at Christmas 1930: “What ails our dear Fatherland? Above all else it is the women, and a woman means the soul of a home and a country.

"Therefore the soul of our people is sick. The biggest part of German womanhood has lost the place that God intended for it... man at his work and woman at the stove and motherhood revered once more as holy! Heil!"

Hitler had her declared the woman of the year in 1940 and made her a Nazi party functionary. The letters were discovered in the State Military Archives of Moscow by historian Dr Henrik Eberle.

He said: "The letters are a fascinating glimpse into how a people were mesmerised by Hitler and how they reacted to him."

 

Due to the overwhelming majority of Christians in Germany:

Quote:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005206

A religious census taken in 1925 revealed that of an overall German population of 65 million, 40 million belonged to the main Protestant (Evangelical Lutheran) church, 21 million to the Roman Catholic church, and 620,000 to various smaller, mostly Protestant denominations. The term "Church Struggle" refers to the strained relationship between church and state in Germany in the 1870s and then again during the Nazi regime. Although Nazi policy at first seemed to tolerate church autonomy, it soon became clear that official tolerance of Christian religious groups would last only as long as the churches accepted synchronization--the alignment of the church, along with other areas of society, with Nazi goals. The Roman Catholic and Protestant churches met the Nazi rise to power with attempts to retain control of their respective institutions and the rights of their brethren to worship freely and openly.

 

The letters from the actual citizens that were Christian to a Christian dictator, openly supporting all that Hitler did for them in the Nationalist Party.

His actions were sanctioned, by the citizens and anti semitic. Which Luther the original Protestant was as well.

Now, what do we have as proof of Hitler's Christianity, same thing we have of Bush's Christianity.

Hitler did however, write a book Mein Kampf, which supports his Christian beliefs rather extensively.

Any bias moderator, would not include, and edit his points of view on Christianity why, because that moderator is Christian.

As far as Stalin, although I do not understand Russian, but KNOW of actual Communists here in the US. There was a split of atheism to Christianity. How do I know as FACT?

1975 New Year's spent time w/my Aunt going to one of her meetings. What were these meetings about? Communist overthrow of the US government. What language did they speak? Lithuanian, (I can understand the spoken word) was that what they spoke about the overthrow of the US into Communism - Yes.

What Church did they attend? The majority that were Christian attended a Roman Catholic Church, and were devout Christians, how would I know, I have been in many of their homes. They had crosses on the walls, and when with my Aunt although she was an atheist she too would tag along on our visits, once a year via car to the churches these people attended. They wouldn't have their meetings on Sunday.

Odd thing too about Russia, fuck loaded with Churches primarily Eastern Orthodox Catholic, which was the 3rd installment of Christianity. The 1st being the actual Christians in 314, the 2nd 324 and the Christianizing of Rome by Constantine. The 3rd the off shoot of Roman Catholics which took 300 years to break, years 1000-1300's. Protestant/Luther/Reformation 1516, the next schism.

It is no wonder you get confused pineapple, it is because there are so many Christians of various off shoots it is hard to tell which one's are which off shoot. Then the official phrase dening that those aren't Christians because this one particular denomination/sect/diocese (whatever) are the one true religion following the one true God.

 

Freedom of choice is more to be treasured than any possession earth can give.”

-- David O. McKay

I want to choose the details of my life. Fortunately, I've come to appreciate how important it is to give others the freedom to choose their own paths.


Fateless7
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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Speaking of dishonest, Fateless7

 

Some of these policies were opposed to by Hitler, who thought they were too radical and too alienating from parts to the German people (middle class and some Nazi-supporting nationalist industrialists in particular), and the Strasser faction was defeated at the Bamberg Conference (1926), with Joseph Goebbels joining Hitler. Humiliated, he nonetheless, along with his brother Gregor, continued as a leading Left Nazi within the Party, until expelled from the NSDAP by Hitler in 1930.

 

 

Thanks for recommening I look up Strasser. 

That's exactly where I got my information on Strasser.

Dishonest about what? I used Strasser as an example that not all Nazis engaged in extreme anti-semitism. I never said Strasser was down with Hitler till the very end.

 

 


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Religion being used as a

Religion being used as a political tool is as old as Hammurabi. Why does it seem some of the people here have a hard time grasping that Hitler was pandering to the crowds. I think the chronic posters in this thread need to sit back, read some history, then come back to arguning these points. The world, Europe in this case, has a long history of anti semitism that goes back much farther than the 1900's. The biggest problem with the chruch in Germany at the time was that they lacked the balls of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Sorry, but no. They viewed all history as a struggle against the races. They viewed white are the supreme race. Why? Because they were white themselves and thought the other races were bringing them down. This stemmed from the rut Germany was in after WWI. Germany was hit with sanctions and a shitty economy, so Hitler used the Eugenics and Nordic thoery to show that Germany was to rule the world.

 

 

A Nazi illustration of the perceived Nordic master race. The caption reads roughly, "German bearing, German achievements prove the Nordic racial heritage!"

 

They also viewed it as a struggle against communism and pacifism.

 

So you see, they applied it to all history.

 

And BTW, it's dishonest to cherrypick.

German achievements prove the Nordic Racial Heritage.

And what was the Nordic Racial Heritage?

Descendants of Christ.

I'm sorry, but you have serious problems. You've already tried using incomplete information to make your arguments and you're about to get pwned again. But, hey, be my guest.

Hitler believed Germans/Aryans were the descendants of Christ, and that Jews must be persecuted for killing Christ and for their "God forsaken" nature. The argument that "German achievement proves our heritage" amounts to saying: "See? We are the descendants of Christ because we're doing so much better than the Jews." It's like the Westboro Baptist Church using the deaths of soldiers as an example of their god's anger at America. It's like a football team winning the game and one of their players saying, "Well, we prayed hard and God was with us."

Funny. That's exactly what the Nazi belt buckle said: "God With Us".

German/Aryan superior was Christ centered. You say "they applied it to history". And that's right, because they had a history of Christian anti-semitism as nearly everyone in the thread has been telling you.

Care to get pwned again?

 

 

Read my other post. I expose your dishonesty with Strasser.

 

Honestly, now all your doing is cherrypicking.

 

“OUR STARTING POINT IS NOT THE INDIVIDUAL, AND WE DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE VIEW THAT ONE SHOULD FEED THE HUNGRY, GIVE DRINK TO THE THIRSTY, OR CLOTHE THE NAKED . . . . OUR OBJECTIVES ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT: WE MUST HAVE A HEALTHY PEOPLE IN ORDER TO PREVAIL IN THE WORLD.”

JOSEPH GOEBBELS, MINISTER OF PROPAGANDA, 1938 —

 

“IF ONE IMAGINES ... A BATTLEFIELD COVERED WITH THOUSANDS OF DEAD YOUTHS ... AND THEN OUR INSTITUTIONS FOR IDIOTS AND THEIR CARE ..., ONE IS MOST APPALLED BY ... THE SACRIFICE OF THE BEST OF HUMANITY WHILE THE BEST CARE IS LAVISHED ON LIFE OF NEGATIVE WORTH.”

— KARL BINDING AND ALFRED HOCHE, AUTHORIZATION OF THE DESTRUCTION OF LIFE UNWORTHY OF LIFE, LEIPZIG, 1920

 

 

Sounds like they're going for a 'healthy' society.

 

 

Hitler and eugenics

Hitler had read some racial-hygiene tracts during his period of imprisonment in Landsberg Prison. The future leader considered that Germany could only become strong again if the state applied to German society the basic principles of racial hygiene and eugenics.

Hitler believed the nation had become weak, corrupted by the infusion of degenerate elements into its bloodstream.[citation needed] In his opinion, these had to be removed as quickly as possible. He also believed that the strong and the racially pure had to be encouraged to have more children, and the weak and the racially impure had to be neutralized by one means or another.

Quote:
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=609

During the '20s, Carnegie Institution eugenic scientists cultivated deep personal and professional relationships with Germany's fascist eugenicists. In Mein Kampf, published in 1924, Hitler quoted American eugenic ideology and openly displayed a thorough knowledge of American eugenics. "There is today one state," wrote Hitler, "in which at least weak beginnings toward a better conception [of immigration] are noticeable. Of course, it is not our model German Republic, but the United States."

Hitler's struggle for a superior race would be a mad crusade for a Master Race. Now, the American term "Nordic" was freely exchanged with "Germanic" or "Aryan." Race science, racial purity and racial dominance became the driving force behind Hitler's Nazism. Nazi eugenics would ultimately dictate who would be persecuted in a Reich-dominated Europe, how people would live, and how they would die. Nazi doctors would become the unseen generals in Hitler's war against the Jews and other Europeans deemed inferior. Doctors would create the science, devise the eugenic formulas, and even hand-select the victims for sterilization, euthanasia and mass extermination.

This is true of a pure 'white' race.  The tool, eugenics as a tool to those unfit, so it transcended racial barriers into religious, and anyone that didn't fit the profile perfect Nazi.  Translation White, Aryan and Christian.  

 

 

Freedom of choice is more to be treasured than any possession earth can give.”

-- David O. McKay

I want to choose the details of my life. Fortunately, I've come to appreciate how important it is to give others the freedom to choose their own paths.


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Read my other post. I expose your dishonesty with Strasser.

 

Honestly, now all your doing is cherrypicking. 

Strasser was a radical Nazi who did not engage in extreme anti-semitism. Hitler rejected Strasser's practices as a Nazi and Otto later rejected Hitler's practices, however, Otto advocated his form of Nazism until his death. My point stands.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Sounds like they're going for a 'healthy' society.

Centered around descent from Christ, obviously, unless you need Positive Christianity publications slapped in your face again.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Hitler and eugenics

Hitler had read some racial-hygiene tracts during his period of imprisonment in Landsberg Prison. The future leader considered that Germany could only become strong again if the state applied to German society the basic principles of racial hygiene and eugenics.

Hitler believed the nation had become weak, corrupted by the infusion of degenerate elements into its bloodstream.[citation needed] In his opinion, these had to be removed as quickly as possible. He also believed that the strong and the racially pure had to be encouraged to have more children, and the weak and the racially impure had to be neutralized by one means or another.

What does "racial hygiene" mean? You are doing exactly the same thing as you've done in your other posts.

"Dur... here.. what can I quote that makes it look like it was purely racial... oh look! Incomplete information! This'll work!"

Have you noticed that every time you make a post like this, we have to ask you again why these Germans considered themselves racially superior?

German/Aryan superiority based on descent from Christ. That was their basis for racial impurity, the foundation of their "racist religion", and nothing you can say about their breeding prefences can change that.

I've also noticed that you're evading the topic: Hitler's religious anti-semitism. Yes, Hitler believed Jews killed Christ, yes, Jews were considered racially impure for religious reasons which defined Jews by their bloodline rather than the religion they practiced, and yes, you will be refuted if you try this evasive baloney again. 


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Read my other post. I expose your dishonesty with Strasser.

 

Honestly, now all your doing is cherrypicking.

Strasser was a radical Nazi who did not engage in extreme anti-semitism. Hitler rejected Strasser's practices as a Nazi and Otto later rejected Hitler's practices, however, Otto advocated his form of Nazism until his death. My point stands.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Sounds like they're going for a 'healthy' society.

Centered around descent from Christ, obviously, unless you need Positive Christianity publications slapped in your face again.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Hitler and eugenics

Hitler had read some racial-hygiene tracts during his period of imprisonment in Landsberg Prison. The future leader considered that Germany could only become strong again if the state applied to German society the basic principles of racial hygiene and eugenics.

Hitler believed the nation had become weak, corrupted by the infusion of degenerate elements into its bloodstream.[citation needed] In his opinion, these had to be removed as quickly as possible. He also believed that the strong and the racially pure had to be encouraged to have more children, and the weak and the racially impure had to be neutralized by one means or another.

What does "racial hygiene" mean? You are doing exactly the same thing as you've done in your other posts.

"Dur... here.. what can I quote that makes it look like it was purely racial... oh look! Incomplete information! This'll work!"

Have you noticed that every time you make a post like this, we have to ask you again why these Germans considered themselves racially superior?

German/Aryan superiority based on descent from Christ. That was their basis for racial impurity, the foundation of their "racist religion", and nothing you can say about their breeding prefences can change that.

I've also noticed that you're evading the topic: Hitler's religious anti-semitism. Yes, Hitler believed Jews killed Christ, yes, Jews were considered racially impure for religious reasons which defined Jews by their bloodline rather than the religion they practiced, and yes, you will be refuted if you try this evasive baloney again.

 

Great, now read my post about Sparta and Hitler. Hitler thought the Spartans were the first people that represent the superiour race. 


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Could someone tell me

Could someone tell me exactly why any of this matters? Who cares if Hitler was an Atheist or not? What impact does this have on any arguement ever?


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Great, now read my post about Sparta and Hitler. Hitler thought the Spartans were the first people that represent the superiour race. 

Great? That's your response? Fantastic! You finally agree.

Oh, did Hitler think Spartans were the first descendants of Christ? Nice of you to share that interpretation.

 


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Great, now read my post about Sparta and Hitler. Hitler thought the Spartans were the first people that represent the superiour race.

Great? That's your response? Fantastic! You finally agree.

Oh, did Hitler think Spartans were the first descendants of Christ? Nice of you to share that interpretation.

 

 

Nice of you to share your lack of reading comprehension. Seriously, the 'Great' was sarcastic, now are you going to read the post or continue to strawman my position?

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: it

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristicseven those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts.


How Germans concluded that Germans are better than Jews?

Hans and Fritz Scientific Research Institute:  "Jesus was son of God. Because Jesus is half-God, it is obvious that he is better in mind and shape than ordinary people. Jesus has straight nose, Jesus has straight hairs. Jesus has blue eyes. Jews has hooked nose, Jews has frizzle hairs. Jews has brown eyes. So, Jesus (50% God & 50% human) is not alike Jews(100% humans). Hm… Germans looks more like Jesus than Jews. Therefore Germans are close in their image to God (divine quality etalon) than Jews. Jews in their image are further from God than Germans, so they are lower race."

Adolf Hitler said: "6. War Propaganda: "Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image." - Hitler in this sentence compared Jews with God‘s image.


Germans identified Jews by their nose, hairs, eyes, etc. And here shows Cpt_pineaple and "explains" us that Germans did clearing by biological characteristics (and here Cpt_pineaple is right) …so, according to Cpt_pineapple it does have nothing to do with Christianity… (from this point Cpt_pineaple deliberately "forgot" that arguments, what is biologically more perfect(godlike) and what is not, Germans based on RELIGIOUS (Christian) HERO-LEGEND image… by comparing God-Jesus with Germans and Jews (God-killers). Same fact, that Jews were God’s killers was good argument against their purity - they were anti-god (anti-purity, anti-perfect) – evil/bad.


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

Great, now read my post about Sparta and Hitler. Hitler thought the Spartans were the first people that represent the superiour race.

Great? That's your response? Fantastic! You finally agree.

Oh, did Hitler think Spartans were the first descendants of Christ? Nice of you to share that interpretation.

 

 

Nice of you to share your lack of reading comprehension. Seriously, the 'Great' was sarcastic, now are you going to read the post or continue to strawman my position?

 

I've already demolished your position. Hitler's anti-semitism was not secular. See Vjocys' post. The foundation of his anti-semitism was racial superiority as a descendant of Christ combined with the widespread belief that Jews killed Christ and were forsaken by God, which made the Jews impure as an entire race. In addition, simply not being part of Christ's bloodline was an offense.

Because the entire Aryan supremacy position is centered on the belief in the existance and divinity of Christ, Hitler's position cannot be described as secular.

Your argument was that Hitler's beliefs were secular. You are wrong. Move on.


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Pineapple "forgot", lol

VJocys wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristicseven those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts.


How Germans concluded that Germans are better than Jews?

Hans and Fritz Scientific Research Institute:  "Jesus was son of God. Because Jesus is half-God, it is obvious that he is better in mind and shape than ordinary people. Jesus has straight nose, Jesus has straight hairs. Jesus has blue eyes. Jews has hooked nose, Jews has frizzle hairs. Jews has brown eyes. So, Jesus (50% God & 50% human) is not alike Jews(100% humans). Hm… Germans looks more like Jesus than Jews. Therefore Germans are close in their image to God (divine quality etalon) than Jews. Jews in their image are further from God than Germans, so they are lower race."

Adolf Hitler said: "6. War Propaganda: "Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image." - Hitler in this sentence compared Jews with God‘s image.


Germans identified Jews by their nose, hairs, eyes, etc. And here shows Cpt_pineaple and "explains" us that Germans did clearing by biological characteristics (and here Cpt_pineaple is right) …so, according to Cpt_pineapple it does have nothing to do with Christianity… (from this point Cpt_pineaple deliberately "forgot" that arguments, what is biologically more perfect(godlike) and what is not, Germans based on RELIGIOUS (Christian) HERO-LEGEND image… by comparing God-Jesus with Germans and Jews (God-killers). Same fact, that Jews were God’s killers was good argument against their purity - they were anti-god (anti-purity, anti-perfect) – evil/bad.

Yes Vjocys, exactly. Pineapple conveniently "forgets" or excludes information, as I've been saying, in order to make his/her point.

It must have been at least four times now that Pineapple has made the argument, "but Hitler persecuted them racially" while neglecting to pay heed to the Christian beliefs which founded that racism.

Great quote, Vjocys.

 


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lgnsttefrst wrote:

doublepost


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lgnsttefrst wrote: Religion

lgnsttefrst wrote:
Religion being used as a political tool is as old as Hammurabi. Why does it seem some of the people here have a hard time grasping that Hitler was pandering to the crowds. I think the chronic posters in this thread need to sit back, read some history, then come back to arguning these points. The world, Europe in this case, has a long history of anti semitism that goes back much farther than the 1900's. The biggest problem with the chruch in Germany at the time was that they lacked the balls of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

 

http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/facts/bl_religion.htm wrote:

Roman Catholicism, one of Germany's two principal religions, traces its origins there to the eighth-century missionary work of Saint Boniface. In the next centuries, Roman Catholicism made more converts and spread eastward. In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, the Knights of the Teutonic Order spread German and Roman Catholic influence by force of arms along the southern Baltic Coast and into Russia. In 1517, however, Martin Luther challenged papal authority and what he saw as the commercialization of his faith. In the process, Luther changed the course of European and world history and established the second major faith in Germany--Protestantism.

LiberalHearted wrote:
Which is to say there was a mainstay of Christianity as far as the nations dogma, to use it as a political ploy.

That would be similiar to Geo W. Bush his use of power religious right people, into gaining his father the presidency, and then himself.

Meaning of course, there was already a mainstay of Christians, there were powerful ones in public view, and the people generally accepted the bias that Christianity is, from them. However, that doesn't mean that those leaders don't believe in the dogma itself.

Mein Kampf was written before Hitler was Chancellor, which did establish his belief's in the dogma of Christianity, his bid in office (shall we say)had the status of a believer, are you saying that he used that to gain him more political stance, while writing this, he was aware that he would be someone of stature politically?


Freedom of choice is more to be treasured than any possession earth can give.”

-- David O. McKay

I want to choose the details of my life. Fortunately, I've come to appreciate how important it is to give others the freedom to choose their own paths.


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Sorry, you guys have it

Sorry, you guys have it backwards.

Hitler's racist ideology influenced his views on Christ, not the other way around.

 

That is why I argued that 'postive Christianity' went against mainstream Christianity. 

 

At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses.[3][4]
  • Hitler’s Secret Book, Grove Press, 1961

 

 

You see, he took the whole racial cleansing thing and used it to portray Christ as a hero who fought for purity.

 

You have it backwards. His racists ideology, influenced his views on Christ. Not the other way around. 

 

 


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totus_tuus wrote: German

totus_tuus wrote:

German racism was based on the racial superiority of Aryans, the hatred of Jews came, not out of the so-called "Chirstian" anti-Semitism...

 Ummm...

 http://nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

 "I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

... 

Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.

 ...

Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

...

My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen."

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

 

Sorry... German Anti-Semitism runs FAR deeper than the racist pseudo-scientific paradgms of the 19th and early 20th century... those only put a quasi-respectable frame around an already  despicable christian loathing of Jews in Germany and elsewhere in central and eastern Europe.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You see, he took the whole racial cleansing thing and used it to portray Christ as a hero who fought for purity.

You have it backwards. His racists ideology, influenced his views on Christ. Not the other way around. 

You are horrible. By this time, it's just no longer possible for you to gracefully concede. I'll just demolish your argument again like all the rest.

First, your argument falls apart the moment you call Christ a hero that fought for racial purity. You're also being dishonest.

cpt_Pineapple translation device wrote:

"Oops, was Hitler fighting for racial purity? Teehee, I must have 'forgotten'! I'll just drop the word 'racial' and call it plain old purity! Jebus fought for purity, right? Ha! Now I've got 'em!"

I have to say this is the first time I have heard anyone call Jesus a white supremacist who fought for racial purity. LOL.

I find your behavior to be immature, Pineapple. You continue to make arguments that aim to deceive by "cleverly" omitting words or information.

Second, I'm getting tired of your arguments made by using incomplete information.

"Hitler's racist ideology influenced his views on Christ."

Where did he get his racist ideology from?

German/Aryan supremacism based on being the descendants of Christ.

Guess his racist ideology that was based on existing views of Christ has to come first, huh? It can't go the other way around, retard.

 

 

 


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

You see, he took the whole racial cleansing thing and used it to portray Christ as a hero who fought for purity.

You have it backwards. His racists ideology, influenced his views on Christ. Not the other way around.

You are horrible. By this time, it's just no longer possible for you to gracefully concede. I'll just demolish your argument again like all the rest.

First, your argument falls apart the moment you call Christ a hero that fought for racial purity. You're also being dishonest.

cpt_Pineapple translation device wrote:

"Oops, was Hitler fighting for racial purity? Teehee, I must have 'forgotten'! I'll just drop the word 'racial' and call it plain old purity! Jebus fought for purity, right? Ha! Now I've got 'em!"

I have to say this is the first time I have heard anyone call Jesus a white supremacist who fought for racial purity. LOL.

I find your behavior to be immature, Pineapple. You continue to make arguments that aim to deceive by "cleverly" omitting words or information.

Second, I'm getting tired of your arguments made by using incomplete information.

"Hitler's racist ideology influenced his views on Christ."

Where did he get his racist ideology from?

German/Aryan supremacism based on being the descendants of Christ.

Guess his racist ideology that was based on existing views of Christ has to come first, huh? It can't go the other way around, retard.

 

 

 

 

You didn't even read the quote about Sparta, or any other of my posts did you?

No?  Didn't think so. If you did, you would now my argument and not be such a fucktard.

 

Here's some more quotes you will probably completly ignore! 

 

 

  • The old beliefs will be brought back to honor again. The whole secret knowledge of nature, of the divine, the demonic. We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race.[1][2]
    • Joseph Carr The Twisted Cross, pp. 203.

 

  • As soon as the idea was introduced that all men were equal before God, that world was bound to collapse.
    • 26 February 1942

 

  • This pride of race is a quality which the German, fundamentally, does not possess. The reason for this is that for these last three centuries the country has been torn by internal dissension and religious wars and has been subjected to a variety of foreign influences, to the influence, for example, of Christianity-for Christianity is not a natural religion for the Germans, but a religion that has been imported and which strikes no responsive chord in their hearts and is foreign to the inherent genius of the race. (13th February 1945)

 

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:You

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
You see, he took the whole racial cleansing thing and used it to portray Christ as a hero who fought for purity.

You have it backwards. His racists ideology, influenced his views on Christ. Not the other way around.


German’s etalon of biological purity was created not from Christ fighting, but from his exterior and Biblical grouping... who is pure and who is not. About purity and Jews, Bible (New Testament) says clearly ...labeling Jews as impure (by New Testament Jews do not belong to pure group):

Bible.NT:Ti:1:10 For there are many insubordinate men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially the circumcision party;
Bible.NT:Ti:1:11 they must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for base gain what they have no right to teach.
Bible.NT:Ti:1:15 To the pure all things are pure
(Christians/Christ followers), but to the corrupt and unbelieving(Jews/Circumcised) nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted.
Bible.NT:Ti:1:15 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

Bible was written many years BEFORE Hitler even born… so please shut-up, who was started first to talk about impurity of Jews and purity of Christ followers.


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VJocys

VJocys wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
You see, he took the whole racial cleansing thing and used it to portray Christ as a hero who fought for purity.

You have it backwards. His racists ideology, influenced his views on Christ. Not the other way around.


German’s etalon of biological purity was created not from Christ fighting, but from his exterior and Biblical grouping... who is pure and who is not. About purity and Jews, Bible (New Testament) says clearly labeling Jews as impure (by NT Jews do not belong to pure group):

Bible.NT:Ti:1:10 For there are many insubordinate men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially the circumcision party;
Bible.NT:Ti:1:11 they must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for base gain what they have no right to teach.
Bible.NT:Ti:1:15 To the pure all things are pure
(Christians), but to the corrupt and unbelieving(Jews/Circumcised) nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted.
Bible.NT:Ti:1:15 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

Bible was written many years BEFORE Hitler even born… so please shut-up, who was started first to talk about impurity of Jews and purity of followers of Jesus.

 

It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo… As a sane German, one is flabbergasted to think that German human beings could have let themselves be brought to such a pass by Jewish filth and priestly twaddle, that they were little different from the howling dervish of the Turks and the negroes, at whom we laugh so scornfully. It angers one to think that, while in other parts of the globe religious teaching like that of Confucius, Buddha and Mohammed offers an undeniably broad basis for the religious-minded, Germans should have been duped by a theological exposition devoid of all honest depth.

  • 5 June 1942

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:It is

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo… As a sane German, one is flabbergasted to think that German human beings could have let themselves be brought to such a pass by Jewish filth and priestly twaddle, that they were little different from the howling dervish of the Turks and the negroes, at whom we laugh so scornfully. It angers one to think that, while in other parts of the globe religious teaching like that of Confucius, Buddha and Mohammed offers an undeniably broad basis for the religious-minded, Germans should have been duped by a theological exposition devoid of all honest depth.


Small course of history to people like Cpt_pineapple who don’t know, that German version of the Bible already was published... long time ago:

Martin Luther’s translation of the Bible into German was one of the most significant steps along that road, and one that continues to resound 500 years later. Luther’s New Testament, published in 1522, and his complete Bible, published in 1534, infused the Reformation as they made the Scriptures accessible to ordinary people.


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VJocys

VJocys wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo… As a sane German, one is flabbergasted to think that German human beings could have let themselves be brought to such a pass by Jewish filth and priestly twaddle, that they were little different from the howling dervish of the Turks and the negroes, at whom we laugh so scornfully. It angers one to think that, while in other parts of the globe religious teaching like that of Confucius, Buddha and Mohammed offers an undeniably broad basis for the religious-minded, Germans should have been duped by a theological exposition devoid of all honest depth.

 

Small course of history to people like Cpt_pineapple who don’t know, that German version of the Bible already was published... long time ago:

Martin Luther’s translation of the Bible into German was one of the most significant steps along that road, and one that continues to resound 500 years later. Luther’s New Testament, published in 1522, and his complete Bible, published in 1534, infused the Reformation as they made the Scriptures accessible to ordinary people.

 

 

Yes, I know the bible was published long before Hitler. Did you read the quote? Or any of my posts for that manner? 

 


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And please read this about

And please read this about Hitler's Table Talk
http://nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm


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Cpt_pineappleYou didn't

Cpt_pineapple

You didn't even read the quote about Sparta, or any other of my posts did you?

No?  Didn't think so. If you did, you would now my argument and not be such a fucktard.

Here's some more quotes you will probably completly ignore! 

  • The old beliefs will be brought back to honor again. The whole secret knowledge of nature, of the divine, the demonic. We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race.[1 wrote:
    [2]
    • Joseph Carr The Twisted Cross, pp. 203.
  • As soon as the idea was introduced that all men were equal before God, that world was bound to collapse.
    • 26 February 1942
  • This pride of race is a quality which the German, fundamentally, does not possess. The reason for this is that for these last three centuries the country has been torn by internal dissension and religious wars and has been subjected to a variety of foreign influences, to the influence, for example, of Christianity-for Christianity is not a natural religion for the Germans, but a religion that has been imported and which strikes no responsive chord in their hearts and is foreign to the inherent genius of the race. (13th February 1945

We've already read your Sparta quote since you posted it previously, and I was doing you a favor by giving you time to figure out that your Sparta argument is also retarded. You know, give you a chance to rethink before I pwn you again. I guess I gave you too much credit. Here we go.

You're saying that Hitler's anti-semitism is the result of reading about Spartans. What do Jews have to do with Sparta? Why are Jews the main focus of Hitler's aggression? Have you read Mein Kampf? Did you notice that nowhere in Hitler's account of his youth does he attribute the development of his anti-semitism (and by the way, he specifically noted reading about religious attacks against Jews) to Spartans? Moron.

Yes! Pineapple has discovered the secret of Nazism! Hundreds of years of Christian anti-semitism had nothing to do with it! It was the Spartans, the true messengers of Christ! The Spartans told Hitler that Jews killed Jesus! Or not.

That's why your Sparta quote was ignored.

We've already been over the other quotes a few pages ago. Hitler disliked the existing Christian religion and sought to replace it with his own Christianity.

Only the Germans were equal to God, obviously.

[edit: Are you quoting Table Talk again? Lol]


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Quote: http://nobeliefs.com

 

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The Table-Talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

3) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his Christianity.

4) The Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

 

Thanks for showing my point with Bormann.

 

My point still stands, that his 'positive Christianity' goes against mainstream Christianity.  

 

Besides, that article was addressing tabletalks as a source to deny Hitler's Christianity. I wasn't 

 

 

Fateless7 wrote:

We've already read your Sparta quote since you posted it previously, and I was doing you a favor by giving you time to figure out that your Sparta argument is also retarded. You know, give you a chance to rethink before I pwn you again. I guess I gave you too much credit. Here we go.

 

I am shaking in my boots.

Quote:
 

You're saying that Hitler's anti-semitism is the result of reading about Spartans.

Why are Jews the main focus of Hitler's aggression? Have you read Mein Kampf? Did you notice that nowhere in Hitler's account of his youth does he attribute the development of his anti-semitism (and by the way, he specifically noted reading about religious attacks against Jews) to Spartans? Moron.

 

Yes! Pineapple has discovered the secret of Nazism! Hundreds of years of Christian anti-semitism had nothing to do with it! It was the Spartans, the true messengers of Christ! The Spartans told Hitler that Jews killed Jesus! Or not.

Of course, the lovely strawman rears his ugly head.

 

 

 

Quote:

What do Jews have to do with Sparta?

 

 

Nothing, which was my point.

 

Quote:

That's why your Sparta quote was ignored.

 

Because you're a fucktard and strawmanned it?

 

Quote:
 

We've already been over the other quotes a few pages ago. Hitler disliked the existing Christian religion and sought to replace it with his own Christianity.

 Wow, we agree! Now why didn't he like the existing Christian religion? BECAUSE IT EXCLUDED HIS RACIAL IDEOLOGY!!!!

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Of

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Of course, the lovely strawman rears his ugly head. 

You're calling strawman without even knowing what your own argument was. All you did was post a quote. I responded to the quote, which apparently was your argument, unless you consider "MADNESS! THIS IS SPARTA!" to be an argument.

Quote:
 

We've already been over the other quotes a few pages ago. Hitler disliked the existing Christian religion and sought to replace it with his own Christianity.

 Wow, we agree! Now why didn't he like the existing Christian religion? BECAUSE IT EXCLUDED HIS RACIAL IDEOLOGY!!!!

Read some Martin Luther, bitch. It's Christian anti-semitism. It does not exclude his racial ideology. It is anti-Jew and its existance preceeds his acceptance of the belief.

I should get paid to pwn you because business is steady.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: Of

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Of course, the lovely strawman rears his ugly head. 

By the way, how can a lovely strawman be ugly?

This is exactly what I've been talking about. Your use of logic is screwed up and that's why your arguments fail.


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Of course, the lovely strawman rears his ugly head.

You're calling strawman without even knowing what your own argument was. All you did was post a quote. I responded to the quote, which apparently was your argument, unless you consider "MADNESS! THIS IS SPARTA!" to be an argument.

 

My point was that Hitler thought the Spartans were the the first example of the superiour race (NOT Christ.). Which apperently went way over your head. I even underlined it for you.

 

The MADNESS part was from 300 and you fail at that too, since it's 'MADNESS? THIS IS SPARATA' not MADNESS! Geez....

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

We've already been over the other quotes a few pages ago. Hitler disliked the existing Christian religion and sought to replace it with his own Christianity.

Wow, we agree! Now why didn't he like the existing Christian religion? BECAUSE IT EXCLUDED HIS RACIAL IDEOLOGY!!!!

Read some Martin Luther, bitch. It's Christian anti-semitism. It does not exclude his racial ideology. It is anti-Jew and its existance preceeds his acceptance of the belief.

I should get paid to pwn you because business is steady.

 

Then why was he against it?

 

I guess business is slowing down.

 

*edit to fix quote tags* 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:The

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

The MADNESS part was from 300 and you fail at that too, since it's 'MADNESS? THIS IS SPARATA' not MADNESS! Geez....

If you were to compare all of my posts to all of your posts, you would find that my spelling and grammar are typically superior to yours. And, yeah... "SPARATA". Is that how it goes? I can't believe I never knew that "Sparta" is actually spelled "Sparata". Don't start pwning yourself now, cause that would take away the fun.

And the other things you brought up were already responded to.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Then why was he against it?

I guess business is slowing down.

Actually, you were just wrong again. You said anti-semitism was absent from the existing forms of Christianity, which is ridiculous on your part since we just discussed that topic and even quoted Martin Luther and other sources on the previous page.

Why did Hitler want to enforce his own Christianity? Ya know, Pineapple, that topic was already dealt with pages ago. You've begun to go in circles and make the same arguments you've already made that were already refuted.

This is just the way your mind works. You think in such a rational manner as to make statements like, "Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs", and "Lovely strawmen are ugly."

And we can't forget, "Jesus was a hero who fought for racial purity."

I'm tired of catching you making one deceptive argument after another. This type of intellectual dishonesty is what we would expect of a troll. So, Pineapple, troll on.

Quote:

Hannibal Lecter: Then, by implication, you think you're smarter than I am, since it was you who caught me.
Will Graham: No, I know I'm not smarter than you.
Hannibal Lecter: Then how did you catch me?
Will Graham: You had... disadvantages.
Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?
Will Graham: You're insane.


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

The MADNESS part was from 300 and you fail at that too, since it's 'MADNESS? THIS IS SPARATA' not MADNESS! Geez....

If you were to compare all of my posts to all of your posts, you would find that my spelling and grammar are typically superior to yours. And, yeah... "SPARATA". Is that how it goes? I can't believe I never knew that "Sparta" is actually spelled "Sparata". Don't start pwning yourself now, cause that would take away the fun.

And the other things you brought up were already responded to.

 

No they weren't.

 

Quote:
 


Actually, you were just wrong again. You said anti-semitism was absent from the existing forms of Christianity,

Actually, you just strawman again. 

 

 

Quote:

which is ridiculous on your part since we just discussed that topic and even quoted Martin Luther and other sources on the previous page.

And we just talked about strawman.

 

No seriously, repeat my argument. I want to get rid fo the straw man. The task is simple,  post

I think Pineapple's argument is:____________

 

fill in the blank. That way, we can get rid of the strawman. 



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Hitler saw himself as a

Hitler saw himself as a reformer of Christianity, not as fighter against Christianity. He fought against Christians, who, as he thought, corrupted Christianity. He saw himself as Jesus and Martin Luther. If you quote Table Talks, quote everything:

"Luther had the merit of rising against the Pope and the organisation of the Church. It was the first of the great revolutions. And thanks to his translation of the Bible, Luther replaced our dialects by the great German language!" (Hitler / Table-Talk p. 9)

"The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galiean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 76)

"Christ was an Aryan, and St. Paul used his doctrine to mobilise the criminal underworld and thus organise a proto-Bolshevism." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 143)

Just because Hitler tried to create his own version of Christianity and prove, that Jesus was not a Jew, and therefore argued with other Christians - that does not make him unbeliever or anti-Christian. Christians always struggle between each other for "true" Christianity even till blood and accuse each other that their opponents are not "true" Christians – you do the same thing with Hitler. Hitler didn’t reject Christianity as such. He just criticized it’s organized version and therefore later (1936-1938) switched from "Official Christianity" branch to "The Order of Jesuits" branch.

If Protestant fights against Catholic version of Christianity, that doesn’t mean that Protestant is not a Christian and doesn’t belong to Christianity. Some people are believers with their personalized-modified understanding of religion or God. And they fight against other religions or organized their forms, or they fight even against organized their own religion. For example: they can think that it is corrupted and perverted, greedy or there is no need in organized religion - God must be private thing, etc..

There are no identical standard of Christianity, just each group declare themselves as "standard". Every group and every person is slightly different and has his own modifications of God and how to worship Him. Differences appear from different/subjective experience and knowledge in life and secondary – because of personal modifications. And these modifications always come from a wish to satisfy personal needs with less expense and more easily to pass to Heaven. So if "true" Christianity for You, Mormon or Pope is ONE thing, for Hitler, Mother Teresa, Orthodox or some guy in India it will be OTHER thing. Therefore Christians will always fight for "true" Christianity between each other, as personal needs between people often come in conflict and nobody wants to see himself as fallible. But this doesn't make them non-Christians. Everybody wants to take more than to give. Hitler modified Christianity to make it more profitable for himself (as ALL Christians do without exception – just not all want to admit this for themselves) and honestly believed, that these modifications leads to "true" Christianity. He believed that old type organized Christianity is corrupted. People, who made profit form Hitler’s changes, honestly admitted that these changes led TO more "true" Christianity. Who lost from these changes, started to claim that they led away FROM "true" Christianity. Today Christians (and you Cpt_pineapple) are not the ones, who made profit from Hitler’s ideas and changes, …and entirely just because he brought shame on Christianity as a Christian. So of course, you and today’s Christians opposing Hitler’s changes on Christianity and identify them as factors which distanced Christianity from "true". Therefore you are opposing Hitler’s own identification as "true" Christian, because he does not match your subjective conception of "true" Christian. You just want to wash you hands now and exclude from Christianity members who put you in uncomfortable position.

Hitler believed in Christian God, in Christ, went to Christian church and prayed - he has all main Christianity bases. He was the same candy of sh*, just in different wrapping. What about killing? There is one True Christian besides Hitler – God, who lied, cheated, killed, robbed and was a paedophile. So everyone, who commits all these sins, can be Christian too (unless God is an Atheist).


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VJocys wrote: Hitler saw

VJocys wrote:
Hitler saw himself as a reformer of Christianity, not as fighter against Christianity. He fought against Christians, who, as he thought, corrupted Christianity. He saw himself as Jesus and Martin Luther. If you quote Table Talks, quote everything:

"Luther had the merit of rising against the Pope and the organisation of the Church. It was the first of the great revolutions. And thanks to his translation of the Bible, Luther replaced our dialects by the great German language!" (Hitler / Table-Talk p. 9)

"The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galiean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 76)

"Christ was an Aryan, and St. Paul used his doctrine to mobilise the criminal underworld and thus organise a proto-Bolshevism." (Hitler / Table-Talk, p. 143)

 

I see nothing that condraticts my point.

 

 

Quote:

Just because Hitler tried to create his own version of Christianity and prove, that Jesus was not a Jew, and therefore argued with other Christians - that does not make him unbeliever or anti-Christian.

 

I never said he wasn't Christian. 

 

Quote:
 

Christians always struggle between each other for "true" Christianity even till blood and accuse each other that their opponents are not "true" Christians – you do the same thing with Hitler. Hitler didn’t reject Christianity as such. He just criticized it’s organized version and therefore later (1936-1938) switched from "Official Christianity" branch to "The Order of Jesuits" branch.

 

I NEVER SAID HITLER WASN'T CHRISTIAN!

 

Remember how I mentiod positive Christianity? 

 

Quote:

If Protestant fights against Catholic version of Religion, that doesn’t mean that Protestant is not a Christian and doesn’t belong to Christianity. Some people are believers with their personalized-modified understanding of religion or God. And they fight against other religions or organized their forms, or they fight even against organized their own religion. For example: they can think that it is corrupted and perverted, greedy or there is no need in organized religion - God must be private thing, etc..

 

There are no identical standard of Christianity, just each group declare themselves as "standard". Every group and every person is slightly different and has his own modifications of God and how to worship Him. Differences appear from different/subjective experience and knowledge in life and secondary – because of personal modifications. And these modifications always come from a wish to satisfy personal needs with less expense and more easily to pass to Heaven. So if "true" Christianity for You, Mormon or Pope is ONE thing, for Hitler, Mother Teresa, Orthodox or some guy in India it will be OTHER thing. Therefore Christians will always fight for "true" Christianity between each other, as personal needs between people often come in conflict and nobody wants to see himself as fallible. But this doesn't make them non-Christians. Everybody wants to take more than to give. Hitler modified Christianity to make it more profitable for himself (as ALL Christians do without exception – just not all want to admit this for themselves) and honestly believed, that these modifications leads to "true" Christianity.



 

This actually helps my point. That Hitler got his version of Christianity from his racial ideology, not vice-versa. 

 

Quote:
 

 He believed that old type organized Christianity is corrupted. People, who made profit form Hitler’s changes, honestly admitted that these changes led TO more "true" Christianity. Who lost from these changes, started to claim that they led away FROM "true" Christianity.

 

Again, it shows my point. 

 

 

Quote:

Today Christians (and you Cpt_pineapple)

 

 I'm not Christian.

So you think I'm arguing because you thought I was Christian? No, I'm arguing because I think it's absurd to take a horrible astrocity and play 'pin it on religion'.

I can assure you, I will argue with equal passion if someone said that Hitler was an atheist and evolution led to the holocaust.

That idea is also absurd and dishonest. 

 

 

Quote:

are not the ones, who made profit from Hitler’s ideas and changes, …and entirely just because he brought shame on Christianity as a Christian. So of course, you and today’s Christians opposing Hitler’s changes on Christianity and identify them as factors which distanced Christianity from "true". Therefore you are opposing Hitler’s own identification as "true" Christian, because he does not match your subjective conception of "true" Christianity. You just want to wash you hands now and exclude from Christianity members who put you in uncomfortable position.

 

I NEVER SAID HITLER WASN'T CHRISTIAN!

 

Quote:

Hitler believed in Christian God, in Christ, went to Christian church and prayed - he has all main Christianity bases. He was the same candy of sh*, just in different wrapping. What about killing? There is one True Christian besides Hitler – God, who lied, cheated, killed, robbed and was a paedophile. So everyone, who commits all these sins, can be Christian too (unless God is an Atheist).

 

Of course Christians can be evil. Just like atheists can be evil (Hoxha for example.)

That isn't my point. 


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Vjocys: Pineapple is a Troll.

Vjocys,

Please see my previous post. Pineapple is psychologically defunct and we have actually demonstrated this throughout the thread. Additionally, Pineapple is notoriously dishonest.

"Hitler was a Christian but his beliefs were secular."

"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."

"Jesus was a hero who fought for racial purity."

"The lovely strawman rears it's ugly head."

"The Christian churches did not possess Hitler's 'racial ideology'" (even though it's clear that the Christianity which existed at that time was and had been anti-semitic)

These are all statements made by Pineapple in this thread.

Do we need to see anything more?

I think not.

And Pineapple: Please educate yourself on what a "strawman" is.


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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:

Vjocys,

Please see my previous post. Pineapple is psychologically defunct and we have actually demonstrated this throughout the thread. Additionally, Pineapple is notoriously dishonest.

"Hitler was a Christian but his beliefs were secular."

"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."

"Jesus was a hero who fought for racial purity."

"The lovely strawman rears it's ugly head."

"The Christian churches did not possess Hitler's 'racial ideology'" (even though it's clear that the Christianity which existed at that time was and had been anti-semitic)

These are all statements made by Pineapple in this thread.

Do we need to see anything more?

I think not.

And Pineapple: Please educate yourself on what a "strawman" is.

 

You know, seriously. You need to work on reading comprehension.

 

I know what a strawman is, and you did it several times.  Let's take a look.

Quote:

 

"Hitler was a Christian but his beliefs were secular."

 

Close. His MOTIVES were secular.

 

 

Quote:

"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."

Other way around. I demostrated that his racial ideology influenced his religious thought. Please read my posts for the first time. 

 

Quote:

"Jesus was a hero who fought for racial purity."

 

Tell me why I said that. I'll give you a hint: read my previous posts. Or better yet, read the post that the quote is from.

 

Quote:

"The Christian churches did not possess Hitler's 'racial ideology'" (even though it's clear that the Christianity which existed at that time was and had been anti-semitic)

 

Nazi anti-semitism is based on a different premise than Christian anti-semitism.

 

 

Quote:

 

Do we need to see anything more?

I think not.

 

I don't need any more strawman.

 

Quote:
 

And Pineapple: Please educate yourself on what a "strawman" is.

Yes. If you like I can point to your strawman arguments and show my actual arguments. 

 

 

Whatever, I'm not trying to convince you anyway. I'm doing this for the people that are looking at this thread.

At least magilum offered decent responses and actually knew my argument and didn't resort to strawman.

 

 


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Fatleless7: Nice and

Fatleless7: Nice and revealing collection of Cpt_pineapple‘s quotes Smiling.

Cpt_pineapple: "That Hitler got his version of Christianity from his racial ideology"


Christianity always was racial and persecuted all Jews for what they did to Christ – the main motive WHY she hated Jews. And the more people saw God us Good, the more they saw Jews as Evil and damagers of Good. The more they were religious fanatics, the more they were racists and homophobes. It was the Bible who state first, that Jews were unpure (already quoted) – not Hitler. Hitler is Christianity’s and Bible‘s teachings child. And it was Christianity which made environment for Hitler to come. Ordinary people supported Hitler’s ideas in extermination of Jews, because ...mainly... they saw them as evil - Christ killers. Why and how persecute Jews... Hitler brought many Ideas from Christianity.

Anti-semitism: Racially-based persecution of Jews: 306 to 1946 by Christians.


306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4
315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
325: The Council of Nicea (first Ecumenical council of the early Christian Church) decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5
367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.
528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3
535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3
538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4
561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
612: Jews were not allowed to own land, to be farmers or enter certain trades.
613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off." 5
694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of Jesus. 5
722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
855: Jews were exiled from Italy
1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." 6
1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes
1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building.
1121: Jews were exiled from Flanders (now part of present-day Belgium)
1130: Some Jews in London allegedly killed a sick man. The Jewish people in the city were required to pay 1 million marks as compensation.
1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred in all causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians." 7
1180: The French King of France, Philip Augustus, arbitrarily seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews from the country. There was no legal justification for this action. They were allowed to sell all movable possessions, but their land and houses were stolen by the king.
1189: Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.
1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
1227: The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. 1
1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges." 1
1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury." 2
1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
1290: Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the country.
1298: Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed; more than 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period.
1306: 100,000 Jews are exiled from France. They left with only the clothes on their backs, and food for only one day.
1320: 40,000 French shepherds went to Palestine on the Shepherd Crusade. On the way, 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
1321: In Guienne, France, Jews were accused of having incited criminals to poison wells. 5,000 Jews were burned alive, at the stake.
1338: The councilors of Freiburg banned the performance of anti-Jewish scenes from the town's passion play because of the lethal bloody reactions against Jews which followed the performances. 9
1347+: Ships from the Far East carried rats into Mediterranean ports. The rats carried the Black Death. At first, fleas spread the disease from the rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. England took 2 centuries for its population levels to recover from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame. They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws, which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder and burn the Jews. "In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000; Rue Brulйe...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." (5) In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned. In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..." 3
1354: 12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
1374: An epidemic of possession broke out in the lower Rhine region of what is now Germany. People were seen "dancing, jumping and [engaging in] wild raving." This was triggered by enthusiastic revels on St. John's Day - an Christianized version of an ancient Pagan seasonal day of celebration which was still observed by the populace. The epidemic spread throughout the Rhine and in much of the Netherlands and Germany. Crowds of 500 or more dancers would be overcome together. Exorcisms were tried, but failed. Pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Vitus were tried, but this only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Finally, the rumor spread that God was angry because Christians had been excessively tolerant towards the Jews. God had cursed Europe as He did Saul when he showed mercy towards God's enemies in the Old Testament. Jews "were plundered, tortured and murdered by tens of thousands." The epidemic finally burned itself out two centuries later, in the late 16th century. 4
1391: Jewish persecutions begin in Seville and in 70 other Jewish communities throughout Spain.
1394: Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
1431+: The Council of Basel "forbade Jews to go to universities, prohibited them from acting as agents in the conclusion of contracts between Christians, and required that they attend church sermons." 5
1434: "Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow buttons to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, an overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and tall pointed yellow hats with a large button on them." 1
1453: The Franciscan monk, Capistrano, persuaded the King of Poland to terminate all Jewish civil rights.
1478: Spanish Jews had been heavily persecuted from the 14th century. Many had converted to Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the Church in order to detect insincere conversions. Laws were passed that prohibited the descendants of Jews or Muslims from attending university, joining religious orders, holding public office, or entering any of a long list of professions.
1492: Jews were given the choice of being baptized as Christians or be banished from Spain. 300,000 left Spain penniless. Many migrated to Turkey, where they found tolerance among the Muslims. Others converted to Christianity but often continued to practice Judaism in secret.
1497: Jews were banished from Portugal. 20 thousand left the country rather than be baptized as Christians.
1516: The Governor of the Republic of Venice decided that Jews would be permitted to live only in one area of the city. It was located in the South Girolamo parish and was called the "Ghetto Novo." This was the first ghetto in Europe. Hitler made use of the concept in the 1930's.
1523: Martin Luther distributed his essay "That Jesus Was Born a Jew. " He hoped that large numbers of Jews would convert to Christianity. They didn't, and he began to write and preach hatred against them. Luther has been condemned in recent years for being extremely antisemitic. The charge has some merit; however he was probably typical of most Christians during his era.
1539: A passion play was forbidden in Rome because it prompted violent attacks against the city's Jewish residents. 9
1540: Jews were exiled from Naples.
1543: In his 20's, Martin Luther, had expected Jews to convert to Christianity in large numbers. Distressed by their reluctance, he developed a hatred for Jews, as expressed in his letters to Rev. Spalatin in 1514, when he was 31 years of age. He wrote:

"I have come to the conclusion that the Jews will always curse and blaspheme God and his King Christ, as all the prophets have predicted....For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction."

In 1543, he wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras"

"...eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!...What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed... They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...
Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as in enjoined upon Adam's children...

To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews."


1550: Jews were exiled from Genoa and Venice.
1555-JUL-12: A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. 8
1582: Jews were expelled from Holland.
1648-9: Chmielnicki Bogdan led an uprising against Polish rule in the Ukraine. The secondary goal of Bogdan and his followers was to exterminate all Jews in the country. The massacre began with the slaughter of about 6,000 Jews in Nemirov. Other major mass murders occurred in Tulchin, Polonnoye, Volhynia, Bar, Lvov, etc. Jewish records estimate that a total of 100,000 Jews were murdered and 300 communities destroyed.
Prior to 1800 CE: Persecution was directed at followers of Judaism because of their religious beliefs; it has been referred to as anti-Judaism. CE, Jews could escape oppression by converting to Christianity, and being baptized. The Christian church taught in past centuries that all Jews (past, present and future) were responsible for Jesus' death. The Church also believed that some Jews must be allowed to live, because the biblical book of Revelation indicated that they had a role to play in the "end times." They concluded that it was acceptable to make Jews' lives quite miserable.
Since about 1800: "...Nationalism became a dominant value in the Western and Arab worlds...antisemitism increasingly focused on the Jews' peoplehood and nationhood." 15 Persecution became a form of racism, and has generally been called "anti-Semitism" -- a word "created by an antisemite, Wilhelm Marr [in 1879]. Marr's intention was to replace the German word Judenhass (Jew-hatred) with a term that would make Jew-haters sound less vulgar and even somewhat scientific." 15 The word, (variously spelled antisemite, anti-Semite and anti-semite). It is not a particularly good choice, because the root word "Semitic" refers to a group of languages, not to a single language or to a race, people or nation. However, it is in near-universal usage.
1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
1819: During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, many European Jews lobbied their governments for emancipation. They sought citizenship as well as the same rights and treatment as were enjoyed by non-Jews. This appears to have provoked sporadic anti-semites to engage in anti-Jewish violence. The rioters cried "Hep! Hep!." The origin(s) of this cry are not clear. Jews and their property were attacked first in Wuerzburg, Germany during 1819-AUG. The rioting spread across Germany and eventually reached as far as Denmark and Poland. 17
1840: A rumor spread in Syria that some Jews were responsible for the ritual killing of a Roman Catholic monk and his servant. As a result of horrendous treatment, some local Jews confessed to a crime that they did not commit. This "Damascus Affair" spurred early Zionist writers like Hess to promote the Zionist cause. 17 More details.
1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest.
1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences.
1893:
"...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag."
1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurиs fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." 16 It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5 Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew." The Protocols were sold on Wal-Mart's online bookstore until they were removed on 2004-SEP-21.
1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
1920-1930: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis to whip up public hatred of the Jews in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews.
Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc.
1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10
1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.

References:

"A Calendar of Jewish Persecution," at "HearNow," a Messianic Judaism web site. See: http://www.hearnow.org/caljp.htm
Randy Felton, "Anti-Semitism and the Church," at: http://www.haydid.org/antsemr.htm
Fritz B. Voll, "A Short Review of a Troubled History," at: http://www.jcrelations.com/res/incidents.htm#protokols1
"Classical and Christian Anti-Semitism," at: http://www.virtualjerusalem.co.il/education/education/holocaust/
Max Solbrekken, "The Jews & Jesus: Mistreatment of Jews: Christian shame," at: http://www.mswm.org/jews.htm
Fritz B. Voll, "A Short Review of a Troubled History," at: http://www.jcrelations.com/res/incidents.htm#protokols1
Bob Michael, "Jews as Serfs," at: http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/hd/fak7/hist/e3/gen/
"The Pale of Settlement and the pogroms of 1881 in Russia," at: http://204.165.132.2/crucible/whunts/frames_pogromrussia.htm
Fritz B. Voll, "A Short Review of a Troubled History," at: http://www.jcrelations.com/res/incidents.htm#protokols1
"The Dreyfus Affair," http://holocaust.miningco.com/msub15.htm
"The Kishinev Pogrom of 1903," at: http://www.netwiz.net/~mchavez/familytales/pogrom.htm
"Protocols of the Elders of Zion," article. See: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/protocols.html
Antisemitic poster from 1920 Germany at: http://holocaust.miningco.com/msub15.htm
G.M. Marsden, "Fundamentalism and American Culture," Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK (1980)
G.M. Marsden, "Religion and American Culture," Harcourt, San Diego, CA, (1990), Page 220.
Robert Fulford, "Historian recalls life as a Jew among the Nazis", Article, Globe and Mail, Toronto ON, 1998-OCT-31.
"A Picture Tells a Thousand Words," http://www.primenet.com/~rvolk/english/antiprop/jewish_soap/
Jon Henley, "France faces up to wartime role," The Guardian, reprinted in the Toronto Star, 2001-JAN-11, Page A28
"Survivors mark Romania pogrom: First memorial to 1941 victims," Associated Press, 2000-DEC-6.
"Poles close probe into Jewish wartime massacre," Associated Press. Published in the Toronto Star, Toronto ON, 2002-JUL-9. at: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/
"Pogrom," Vecherny Minsk newspaper, Minsk, Belarus, 1967-NOV. See: http://204.165.132.2/crucible/whunts/frames_belarus.htm
J. Telushkin, "Jewish Literacy: The Most Important Things to Know About the Jewish Religion, Its People and Its History; Item 241: Antisemitism" William Morrow, (1991). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store
Victor Marsden, translator, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," Liberty Bell Publications, (2004). Read reviews or order this hate propaganda safely from Amazon.com online book store
Jonathan Frankel, "The Damascus Affair : 'Ritual Murder', Politics, and the Jews in 1840," Cambridge University Press, (1997). Read reviews or order this book
"The Pale of Settlement and the pogroms of 1881 in Russia," at: http://204.165.132.2/crucible/whunts/frames_pogromrussia.htm
Fritz B. Voll, "A Short Review of a Troubled History," at: http://www.jcrelations.com/res/incidents.htm#protokols1
"The Dreyfus Affair," http://holocaust.miningco.com/msub15.htm
"The Kishinev Pogrom of 1903," at: http://www.netwiz.net/~mchavez/familytales/pogrom.htm
"Protocols of the Elders of Zion," article. See: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/protocols.html
Antisemitic poster from 1920 Germany at: http://holocaust.miningco.com/msub15.htm
G.M. Marsden, "Fundamentalism and American Culture," Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK (1980)
G.M. Marsden, "Religion and American Culture," Harcourt, San Diego, CA, (1990), Page 220.
Robert Fulford, "Historian recalls life as a Jew among the Nazis", Article, Globe and Mail, Toronto ON, 1998-OCT-31.
"A Picture Tells a Thousand Words," http://www.primenet.com/~rvolk/english/antiprop/jewish_soap/
Jon Henley, "France faces up to wartime role," The Guardian, reprinted in the Toronto Star, 2001-JAN-11, Page A28
"Survivors mark Romania pogrom: First memorial to 1941 victims," Associated Press, 2000-DEC-6.
"Poles close probe into Jewish wartime massacre," Associated Press. Published in the Toronto Star, Toronto ON, 2002-JUL-9. at: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/
"Pogrom," Vecherny Minsk newspaper, Minsk, Belarus, 1967-NOV. See: http://204.165.132.2/crucible/whunts/frames_belarus.htm
J. Telushkin, "Jewish Literacy: The Most Important Things to Know About the Jewish Religion, Its People and Its History; Item 241: Antisemitism" William Morrow, (1991). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store
Victor Marsden, translator, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," Liberty Bell Publications, (2004). Read reviews or order this hate propaganda safely from Amazon.com online book store
Jonathan Frankel, "The Damascus Affair : 'Ritual Murder', Politics, and the Jews in 1840," Cambridge University Press, (1997). Read reviews or order this book

Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) Raised as a catholic
Joseph Goebbels(1897-1945) Raised as a catholic, planned to became a priest
Hermann Göring(1893-1946) Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Joachim von Ribbentrop(1893-1946) Foreign Minister of the Third Reich.
His last words: "God bless Germany. May God show mercy to my soul. My last will is that Germany obtains its Unity and that there will come an agreement between East and West so that there will be peace in the world."
Willhem Keitel(1882-1946) Highest Ranking Military in the Third Reich. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Ernst Kaltenbrunner(1903-1946) Leader of the Reichsicherheitshauptamt, a powerful branch of the SS. Converted to catholicism during the Nuremberg Trial
Alfred Rosenberg(1893-1946) Leading ideologist of the Third Reich and Minister for the occupied Eastern Territories. Besides being an opponent to the church, he followed his own religious views that Jesus was not a Jew.
Hans Frank (1900-1946) Gouvernor of Poland. Converted to catholicism during the Nuremberg Trial
Willhelm Frick(1877-1946) Minister of the Interior and Reichsprotektor of Bohemia and Moravia. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Julius Streicher (1885-1946) Agitator of Antisemitsm, Publisher of "Der Stürmer". His last words: "Heil Hitler! This is my personal Purim [holiday] 1946. I am now going to God. The bolsheviks will also hang you from the gallows one day. Farewell, my dearest wife."
Walther Funk(1890-1960) Minister for Economic Affairs in the Third Reich. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Hans Fritzsche (1900-1953) Leader of the Propaganda-Radio-Broadcast. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Baldur von Schirach(1907-1974) Leader of the Hitlerjugend. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Fritz Sauckel(1894-1946) General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Franz von Papen(1879-1969) Vice-Chancelor of Hitler in 1933 and 1934. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Arthur Seyß-Inquart (1892-1946) Reichskommissar of the Netherlands. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Albert Speer(1905-1981) Minister for Armaments in the Third Reich. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Konstantin Freiherr von Neurath(1873-1956) Deputy Reichsprotektor of Bohemia and Moravia. Attented church service during the Nuremberg Trial
Hans Kerrl(1887-1941)
Minister for Ecclestical Affairs
Gustav Adolf Scheel(1907- 1979)
Leader of the National Socialist Students' Federation, Gauleiter in Salzburg. He studied Theology.
Robert Wagner(1895-1946) Gauleiter of Baden, Chief of Civil Administration of Elsace. Had close ties to the "Deutsche Christen" a rightwing group inside the german protestant church
Hans Globke(1898-1973) High Ranking Jurist in the Ministry for Interior. Catholic who became an important politican after WWII
Carl Schmitt(1888-1985) "Crown Jurist" of the Third Reich. Catholic who never showed regret for his behaviour in the Third Reich
Roland Freisler(1893-1945) Leader of the Supreme Court. Raised as a calvinist christian
Georg Leibbrandt(1899-1982) Attendant to the Wannsee Conference. Studied Theology
Adolf Eichmann(1906-1962) Architect of the "Endlösung". Lutheran Christian, who praised the catholic church for helping him fleeing from Europe
Rudolf Höß(1900-1947) Commander of Concentration Camp Auschwitz. When beeing hanged, a catholic priest gave him the sacramets
Josef Mengele(1911-1979) Physician in Auschwitz. Catholic who escaped Europe with the help of the Vatican
Oswald Pohl(1892-1951) Leader Economics and Administrative Department of the SS. While in custody he converted to catholicism. A book about his conversion was published by a german diocese
Klaus Barbie(1913-1991) Gestapo officer in Lyon. Catholic who escaped Europe with the help of the Vatican
Walter Rauff(1906-1984) Inventor of the mobile gas chambers (Gaswagen). When he died in Chile, the german evangelical bishop of Chile read his eulogy
Erich Priebke(*1913) SS-Officer in Italy. Was a catholic and visited the Pope while being based in Italy
Wilhelm von Ammon(1903-1992) High ranking Jurist in the Ministry of the Interior. After the war he worked as an ecclestical lawyer for the lutheran church of Bavaria
Erich von Koch (1896-1986) Gauleiter of Eastern Prussia, Reichskommissar of Ukraine. Was a member of the YMCA and was visited in Prison regularly by a lutheran pastor.
Johann Ludwig Graf Schwerin von Krosigk(1887-1977) Minister for Finance in the Third Reich. Was a Lutheran and attended church service regularly
Otto Ohlendorf(1907-1951) Leader of a SS-Einsatzgruppe (SS-Operation-Group). Was a member of the "Christengemeinschaft" an anthroposophical-christian sect
Eduard Strauch (1906-1955) Leader of a SS-Einsatzgruppe. (SS-Operation-Group) Before joining the Einsatzgruppen, he studied Law and Theology
Ernst Biberstein (1899-1986) Leader of a SS-Einsatzgruppe (SS-Operation-Group) Before and after the war he served as a pastor in the lutheran church
Hans Filbinger (1913-2007) Navy Lawyer. After the war he became Minister-President of Baden-Württemberg and a Member of the "Order of the Holy Sepulchre"


Fateless7
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More of Pineapple's Nonsense...

cpt_Pineapple wrote:
Quote:

"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."

Other way around. I demostrated that his racial ideology influenced his religious thought. Please read my posts for the first time. 

Funny how Pineapple accuses everyone that talks to him that they have either not read his posts, don't know his argument, or are attacking a strawman. Rather than suggesting that everyone is mysteriously incapable of ever knowing Pineapple's arguments, it suggests that Pineapple lacks the honesty to accept correction and simply uses the excuse, "No, that was not my argument" to avoid being wrong.  

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

As for the quotes from Hitler's speeches, Hitler brought up God and Jesus because he was personally a Christian. This is common as many people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

Look Ma! I got my secular beliefs from religion! Exact quote from Pineapple, and yet somehow not his argument. And just to prove my point:

Attribute

1. to regard as resulting from a specified cause; consider as caused by something indicated (usually fol. by to): She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

 many people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

So, you see, Pineapple did say secular beliefs resulted from Christianity.

To be fair, maybe we can't know Pineapple's arguments because Pineapple is still learning English and doesn't know the meaning of the words he is using. Lol...


lgnsttefrst
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STRAW

Fateless7 wrote:

By the way, how can a lovely strawman be ugly?

 Perhaps the strawman is not unlike the character of Dracula, both unnaturally alluring and a hideous abomination at the same time. Wink


Cpt_pineapple
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*sigh*

 

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007173

At the same time, the societies of Europe underwent rapid economic change and social dislocation. The emancipation of the Jews allowed them to live and work among non-Jews, but exposed them to a new form of political antisemitism. It was secular, social, and influenced by economic considerations, though it often reinforced and was reinforced by traditional religious stereotypes.

 

Now, as you can see I included the though it often reinforced and was reinforced by traditional religious stereotypes. part.

 

I never said the religious anti-semitism wasn't used by Hitler. I'm sure he did take advantage of it.

 

My argument was that his racial hatred of the Jews were not based on religion. Now did he use the anti-semitic climate to further his goal? Absoultly, but that's not my argument. I never said the Germany wasn't anti-semitic. My point was that Nazi anti-semitism wasn't found on religious grounds.

 

 

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007166

First, for the nations that lost the war, the dreadful carnage on the battlefield -- Europe's first experience with mass man-made death -- seemed to be a sacrifice made for no gain. It seemed inexplicable except by insidious internal betrayal. A stab-in-the-back legend attributed the German and Austrian defeat in World War I to internal traitors working for foreign interests, primarily Jews and communists. This legend was widely believed and deliberately disseminated by the defeated German military leadership, seeking to avoid personal consequences for their policies.

Like other negative stereotypes about Jews, the stab-in-the-back legend was believed despite the fact that it was entirely untrue: German Jews had served in the German armed forces loyally, bravely, and out of proportion to their numbers in the population.

So Jews were blamed for WWI?

 

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007167

To justify the murder of the Jews both to the perpetrators and to bystanders in Germany and Europe, the Nazis used not only racist arguments but also arguments derived from older negative stereotypes, including Jews as communist subversives, as war profiteers and hoarders, and as a danger to internal security because of their inherent disloyalty and opposition to Germany.

I don't see 'Christ killers' there.

 

 

After the Nazis came to power in Germany on January 30, 1933, the Nazi leadership decided to stage an economic boycott against the Jews of Germany. In 1933, about 600,000 Jews lived in Germany, less than one percent of the total population. Most Jews in Germany were proud to be Germans, citizens of a country that had produced many great poets, writers, musicians, and artists. More than 100,000 German Jews had served in the German army during World War I, and many were decorated for bravery.

 

Jews held important positions in government and taught in Germany's renowned universities. Of the 38 Nobel Prizes won by German writers and scientists between 1905 and 1936, 14 went to Jews. Marriage between Jews and non-Jews was becoming more common. Although German Jews continued to encounter some discrimination in their social lives and professional careers, many were confident of their future as Germans. They spoke the German language and regarded Germany as their home.

 

On April 1, 1933, the Nazis carried out the first nationwide, planned action against Jews: a boycott targeting Jewish businesses and professionals. The boycott was both a reprisal and an act of revenge against Gruelpropaganda (atrocity stories) that German and foreign Jews, assisted by foreign journalists, were allegedly circulating in the international press to damage Nazi Germany's reputation.

......

 

Although the national boycott operation, organized by local Nazi party chiefs, lasted only one day and was ignored by many individual Germans who continued to shop in Jewish-owned stores, it marked the beginning of a nationwide campaign by the Nazi party against the entire German Jewish population. A week later, the government passed a law restricting employment in the civil service to "Aryans." Jewish government workers, including teachers in public schools and universities, were fired.

 

 

 

 

Of course, Jews did face somem discrimination in Germany and throughout histroy. That's not my argument.

 

 

 

Fateless7 wrote:

Funny how Pineapple accuses everyone that talks to him that they have either not read his posts, don't know his argument, or are attacking a strawman.

 

Funny how you don't know my argument and attack a strawman.

I assumed you didn't read my posts, because you have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Fateless7 wrote:

 

You're saying that Hitler's anti-semitism is the result of reading about Spartans.

 

Y HALO THAR STRAWMAN

 

Fateless7 wrote:

You said anti-semitism was absent from the existing forms of Christianity,

 

strawman.

 

 

 

Quote:

Rather than suggesting that everyone is mysteriously incapable of ever knowing Pineapple's arguments, it suggests that Pineapple lacks the honesty to accept correction and simply uses the excuse, "No, that was not my argument" to avoid being wrong.

 

I wouldn't say "No, that was not my argument" if you actually cited my argument.

 

 

Quote:

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

As for the quotes from Hitler's speeches, Hitler brought up God and Jesus because he was personally a Christian. This is common as many people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

Look Ma! I got my secular beliefs from religion! Exact quote from Pineapple, and yet somehow not his argument. And just to prove my point:

Attribute

1. to regard as resulting from a specified cause; consider as caused by something indicated (usually fol. by to): She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

 

I already addressed this.

 

 

Quote:

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

many people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.


So, you see, Pineapple did say secular beliefs resulted from Christianity.

To be fair, maybe we can't know Pineapple's arguments because Pineapple is still learning English and doesn't know the meaning of the words he is using. Lol...

 

[edit:forgot to respond to this]

 

LOL!! ROFL XD!!!

 

Seriously, you even quoted me and got it wrong.

 

Quote:

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

many people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.


So, you see, Pineapple did say secular beliefs resulted from Christianity.

 

You got it backwards.  YOU EVEN POSTED THE DEFINITION OF 'ATTRIBUTE!'

 See, the secular beliefs are being attributed to Christianity. That is THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY ARE STATING THE REASONS AS BEING CHRISTIAN WHILE THE ACTUAL REASONS ARE SECULAR.

 They are taking their secular beliefs, and attributing them (as in that they saying the that they are the cause of.....) to their Christianity.  

 That is they are saying their Secular beliefs are a result of their Christianity.

 

In the example in the definition.

She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

That is she took his bad temper and attributed it to his ill health.

 

To be fair, I should have worded that differently.

 

[/edit: I responded]

 


Cpt_pineapple
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Wait, perhaps I should make

Wait, perhaps I should make it more clear:

 

She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

She will attribute his bad temper to his ill health.

 

My statment:

 

people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

 

That is they will say that the cause of their actions are from Christianity.

 

 

I will attibute this to your lack of reading comprehension.


Fateless7
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LOL (More of Pineapple's Insanity)

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

Quote:


"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."


Other way around. I demostrated that his racial ideology influenced his religious thought. Please read my posts for the first time.

Secular beliefs don't come from religious beliefs? It's the other way around?  But wait...

cpt_Pinapple wrote:

They are taking their secular beliefs, and attributing them (as in that they saying the that they are the cause of.....) to their Christianity. 

 That is they are saying their Secular beliefs are a result of their Christianity.

But then secular beliefs are the result of religious beliefs. Which one is it? Pineapple doesn't know. But wait...

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

No, secular influences religious.

Now why do I say this?

No, now it's the other way around again! And then...

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

 

That is they will say that the cause of their actions are from Christianity.

No, we're not talking about beliefs anymore, we're talking about actions! Don't you know what Pineapple's argument is?? Because he sure doesn't.

Wait! Let Pineapple clear up this example for you: "She attributed his bad temper to his ill health." You think you know what that means? Well you don't, as Pineapple explains:

Quote:

Wait, perhaps I should make it more clear:

 

She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

She will attribute his bad temper to his ill health.

See, if she attributed his bad temper to ill health, it really means she will attribute his bad temper to his ill health. One is present and one is past tense. Now, admit it people... you wouldn't have known that if Pineapple hadn't shown you.

Pineapple is clearly either mentally challenged, needs to learn English, dishonest, and/or insane.

Quote:

Hannibal Lecter: Then, by implication, you think you're smarter than I am, since it was you who caught me.

Will Graham: No, I know I'm not smarter than you.

Hannibal Lecter: Then how did you catch me?

Will Graham: You had... disadvantages.

Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?

Will Graham: You're insane.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


Cpt_pineapple
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Fateless7

Fateless7 wrote:

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

Quote:


"Secular beliefs come from religious beliefs."


Other way around. I demostrated that his racial ideology influenced his religious thought. Please read my posts for the first time.

Secular beliefs don't come from religious beliefs? It's the other way around? But wait...

cpt_Pinapple wrote:

They are taking their secular beliefs, and attributing them (as in that they saying the that they are the cause of.....) to their Christianity.

That is they are saying their Secular beliefs are a result of their Christianity.

But then secular beliefs are the result of religious beliefs. Which one is it? Pineapple doesn't know. But wait...

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

No, secular influences religious.

Now why do I say this?

No, now it's the other way around again! And then...

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

people will attribute their secular beliefs to their Christianity.

 

That is they will say that the cause of their actions are from Christianity.

No, we're not talking about beliefs anymore, we're talking about actions! Don't you know what Pineapple's argument is?? Because he sure doesn't.

Wait! Let Pineapple clear up this example for you: "She attributed his bad temper to his ill health." You think you know what that means? Well you don't, as Pineapple explains:

Quote:

Wait, perhaps I should make it more clear:

 

She attributed his bad temper to ill health.

She will attribute his bad temper to his ill health.

See, if she attributed his bad temper to ill health, it really means she will attribute his bad temper to his ill health. One is present and one is past tense. Now, admit it people... you wouldn't have known that if Pineapple hadn't shown you.

Pineapple is clearly either mentally challenged, needs to learn English, dishonest, and/or insane.

Quote:

Hannibal Lecter: Then, by implication, you think you're smarter than I am, since it was you who caught me.

Will Graham: No, I know I'm not smarter than you.

Hannibal Lecter: Then how did you catch me?

Will Graham: You had... disadvantages.

Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?

Will Graham: You're insane.

 

 

 

 

Honestly you need reading comprehension. 

 

Quote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
 

 

That is they will say that the cause of their actions are from Christianity.

 

 

But then secular beliefs are the result of religious beliefs. Which one is it? Pineapple doesn't know. But wait...

 

 

I never said the secular beliefs were the result of religious beliefs.  I said, THEY WILL SAY THAT THE BELIEFS ARE FROM RELIGION.

 

I even provided examples to demostrate this.  

 

Here. Joe is an atheist and does action X and says he does it because he is a good person.  He then converts to Christianity and now says God tells him to do action X.

 

 

THAT IS THEY WILL SAY IT COMES FOR RELIGION WHEN IN REALITY IT COMES FROM SECULAR MOTIVES. 

 

Do yourself a favour, buy this:

 

 


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 So no action a person does

 So no action a person does is because of their religious belief system?

Sounds made up...
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Fateless7
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cpt_Pineapple wrote: THAT

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

THAT IS THEY WILL SAY IT COMES FOR RELIGION WHEN IN REALITY IT COMES FROM SECULAR MOTIVES

These poor people don't know what their own motives really are! Lol. The next time I hear someone say, "I'm a soldier for the Lord!" I'm gonna tell them, "No you're not! You're a secular soldier! You just say you're a soldier for the Lord cause you're lying! Pineapple said so!"

 


Cpt_pineapple
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Magus wrote: So no action

Magus wrote:
So no action a person does is because of their religious belief system?

 

No, I'm talking about the case with Hitler. Hitler took his secular racist ideology and merely added God because he was Christian.

I'm arguing his main ideology was rooted in Secular causes, and that his raciast ideology, influenced his Christian view, not the other way around.

 

 


If you want to take that statement in general (that is anybody, not Hitler.) that's a whole nother topic that I discussed many times on the board. 

 


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 So according to you he

 So according to you he used Christianity to support his views?  Do you think without his Christian views he would have been as successful (as in getting followers)?

Sounds made up...
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VJocys
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
My argument was that his racial hatred of the Jews were not based on religion. Hitler took his secular racist ideology and merely added God because he was Christian.


It looks like your amnesia strikes you again. You forgot that Catholic Popes hated Jews and took actions against them hundred years BEFORE Hitler even born. I already posted history of Christian anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred timetable in my previous post. Hitler’s crazy ideas and implementations came from The Bible - anti-Semitism, German race purity (followed from Idolization of Jesus), Jew impurity... or Popes. Like an idea how to persecute and exterminate Jews. For example A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum" (1555) required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. – It was no need for Hitler to invent something new. There are plenty of evidences that Hitler was genuine Christian believer, like Popes who persecuted Jews.

There was a better time for Jews, but ….for another example: In 1846-1878 Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue." And History of Christianity is full of examples like that.

So Hitler not only spoke as true Christians (Popes) but he even acted like one. This makes Him very genuine.

It was Christians who started persecution of Jews and did it about ~1700 years before Hitler. Hitler just added additional reasons (like communism) to hate Jews more, kill them all and encouraged racism. Hitler did things, in what Christian had huge experience already.

Before trying to deny that Jew-persecutions were not religious, maybe try to read more memories from concentration camps like:

"I can still see the pain in her eyes as she told me of loved ones who were thrown into the ovens of Auschwitz. "The last words many of them heard," she said, "were 'Christ-killers.'" Her last words to me that day were, "Christians hate Jews. They believe that we murdered the Son of God. The pope, Billy Graham and Adolf Hitler are all Christians."

"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." - Adolf Hitler "Mein Kampf" – Devil, of course, is very secular personage.

Here another example: "When a papal ambassador was asked to intervene in the deportations from Slovakia to Auschwitz, considering the innocent blood of Jewish children, his reply was: "There is no innocent blood of Jewish children in the world. All Jewish blood is guilty. You have to die. This is the punishment that has been awaiting you, because of that sin [the crucifixion]."" – It looks, that this guy was secular kind, like Hitler, too and "merely added God because he was Christian" Smiling.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I said, THEY WILL SAY THAT THE BELIEFS ARE FROM RELIGION.


What do you want to say? That you have super-natural powers and can predict the future? Hm… maybe you can talk with the dead too? It would be interesting. We could talk with Hitler. Maybe you are talking wit him now?


Cpt_pineapple
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Magus wrote: So according

Magus wrote:

So according to you he used Christianity to support his views?  Do you think without his Christian views he would have been as successful (as in getting followers)?

 

Yes, he still would have. I know this because of things such as the Action T4 progam.  He didn't need his Christian views to kill the disabled, seniors, mentally ill etc....

 

 

VJocys wrote:
It looks like your amnesia strikes you again. You forgot that Catholic Popes hated Jews and took actions against them hundred years BEFORE Hitler even born. I already posted history of Christian anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred timetable in my previous post.

I never forgot that. I know that there was anti-semitism before. That is not my argument. 

 

Quote:
 

Hitler’s crazy ideas and implementations came from The Bible - anti-Semitism, German race purity (followed from Idolization of Jesus), Jew impurity... or Popes. Like an idea how to persecute and exterminate Jews. For example A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum" (1555) required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. – It was no need for Hitler to invent something new. There are plenty of evidences that Hitler was genuine Christian believer, like Popes who persecuted Jews.

 

 

 

Quote:


There was a better time for Jews, but ….for another example: In 1846-1878 Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue." And History of Christianity is full of examples like that.

 

 

Do you even know my argument?

 

Quote:

So Hitler not only spoke as true Christians (Popes) but he even acted like one. This makes Him very genuine.


 

Yes, he was Christian. What do you mean acted like one? Not all Christians are anti-semites in case you didn't get that memo.

 

Quote:
 


It was Christians who started persecution of Jews and did it about ~1700 years before Hitler. Hitler just added additional reasons (like communism) to hate Jews more, kill them all and encouraged racism. Hitler did things, in what Christian had huge experience already.

 

Other way around. Hitler had reasons like Communism, racism and added the Christian portion. Yes, I know that Christian anti-semitism  predates Hitler, I will try this again:

 

 While in prison Hitler read books on racism and Eugenics. 

After WWI, Germany was in a rut. Hitler thought the way to bring Germany to full glory was to apply racial hygene methods  

As I've already quoted, Hitler praised Spartans. Why? Because Spartans applied racial hygene techniques and eliminated the weak.

 

Quote:
 



Before trying to deny that Jew-persecutions were not religious, maybe try to read more memories from concentration camps like:

"I can still see the pain in her eyes as she told me of loved ones who were thrown into the ovens of Auschwitz. "The last words many of them heard," she said, "were 'Christ-killers.'" Her last words to me that day were, "Christians hate Jews. They believe that we murdered the Son of God. The pope, Billy Graham and Adolf Hitler are all Christians."

"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." - Adolf Hitler "Mein Kampf" – Devil, of course, is very secular personage.

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37218  

 

Christians are called upon to comfort the Jewish people, and to show compassion, not controversy. The fears of the Jewish people are just as real as the fear Americans faced on Sept. 11 as the poison of prejudice belched like black, apocalyptic smoke through the streets of New York City.

Instead of demonizing, degrading or patronizing the Jewish people, I truly believe that Christians need to ask forgiveness for the terrible sins committed against them throughout history in the name of Christ.

 

From the same article you got that quote from. 

 

 

Quote:



Here another example: "When a papal ambassador was asked to intervene in the deportations from Slovakia to Auschwitz, considering the innocent blood of Jewish children, his reply was: "There is no innocent blood of Jewish children in the world. All Jewish blood is guilty. You have to die. This is the punishment that has been awaiting you, because of that sin [the crucifixion]."" – It looks, that this guy was secular kind, like Hitler, too and "merely added God because he was Christian" Smiling.


Sorry, all you're doing is quote mining. I can pull quotes for theologens that went against Hitler's regime. 

 

 

 


Quote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I said, THEY WILL SAY THAT THE BELIEFS ARE FROM RELIGION.


What do you want to say? That you have super-natural powers and can predict the future? Hm… maybe you can talk with the dead too? It would be interesting. We could talk with Hitler. Maybe you are talking wit him now?

 

Yes, I am. He is saying enough with the red herrings. 


VJocys
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Hitler had reasons like Communism, racism and added the Christian portion.


Why he needed to add Christian portion when it already was there?

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
I never forgot that. I know that there was anti-semitism before. That is not my argument.


I want to say to your argument, that Christianity was capable and had everything (from motives to methods) to kill Jews. And Hitler has all this with Christianity already. He didn’t need for that secular worldview. Today's Christians slightly different and, I hope, learned from their past and mistakes.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
As I've already quoted, Hitler praised Spartans. Why? Because Spartans applied racial hygene techniques and eliminated the weak.


Ok, lets say, that Hitler wanted to kill cripples according to Spartans – who were theists (not secularists) too.

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Instead of demonizing, degrading or patronizing the Jewish people, I truly believe that Christians need to ask forgiveness for the terrible sins committed against them throughout history in the name of Christ.

From the same article you got that quote from.


Exactly. That guy at least honestly admitted Christian crimes in the name of Jesus against Jews and Christian roots, from where these crimes came... not like somebody in this forum, who still talking that Hitler killed Jews mainly because of his secular worldview part.


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Pineapple's Insanity: Part 3

 

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

I never said the secular beliefs were the result of religious beliefs.  I said, THEY WILL SAY THAT THE BELIEFS ARE FROM RELIGION.

No one caught this? Read on.

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

They are taking their secular beliefs, and attributing them (as in that they saying the that they are the cause of.....) to their Christianity.

That is they are saying their Secular beliefs are a result of their Christianity.

According to Pineapple, people will say that their secular beliefs result from Christianity.

Really? People say that they get their secular beliefs from a religion?

LOL.

Once again,

"Look Ma! I got my secular beliefs from religion!"

And one more time in a larger font, just to show how irrational Pineapple is:

cpt_Pineapple wrote:

That is they are saying their Secular beliefs are a result of their Christianity.

I would suggest that Pineapple figure out what his own arguments are (and if he even knows what he is saying) before accusing others of not knowing his argument and/or having a lack of reading comprehension.

*edit* ROFL.