[VIDEO] Did Jesus Die?
Offline http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1669658378154953060
(*This copy seems to have been edited)
Anyone seen this BBC4 documentary – Did Jesus Die? It analysing the ‘swoon theory’ of the resurrection and what could have happened after. They make some very compelling points. I’d be interested to see how theists handle them.
Most interesting was the idea that Jesus could have been a Buddhist.
Consider:
Jesus lived in Israel until he was 14, after which know one knows where he went, but there is no record of him being in Palestine.
There was a story of a person called Issa (locally know as Jus Asaf, meaning Healer or Shepard) who travelled from Israel and lived in Kashmir from the age of 14 to around 29, when he left and returned to Israel.
Jesus showed up in Israel around the age of 29, bringing with him the teachings we all know, such as love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek etc. His teachings have no precedent in traditional Judaism, but they are entirely consistent with Buddhism.
Examples:
Mark 6:48: he went out to them walking on the lake.
Anguttara Nikaya 3:60: He walks upon the water without parting it, as if it were solid ground.
Mark 10:25: it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enterthe kingdom of heaven.
Jatakamala 5:5 & 15: Riches make a man greedy and so are like a caravan lurching down the road to hell
Matthew 6:20: Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Kuddakaptha 8:9 Let the wise man do righteousness; a treasure that others cannot share, which no thief can steal, a treasure which does not pass away.
Issa/Jus Asaf returned to Kashmir in his 30’s where he stayed and continued his teachings, until he died in the year 80.
Could Jesus have survived the crucifixion and gone to India to escape the Roman Empire who probably would have captured him had he stayed. And could he have, in fact, been Issa and have been in India during the ‘missing years?’
*There seems to be some edits in the Google Video copy… the part discussing about the possible Buddhist links isn’t there. I don’t know why someone would delete it. This website (http://www.muslim.org/light/light033.htm) include a transcript of the documentary. Here is that specific section:
Yet a further reason was then put forward as to why Jesus would be tempted to travel towards India: he had already been there earlier in his life, and lived there from the age of about 14 to 29, being trained as a priest by Buddhists. The documentary referred to the well-known story of the three wise men from the east who came to pay homage to Jesus at his birth
“When a great Buddhist holy man, or Lama dies, wise men consult the stars and other omens and set off, often on extraordinarily long journeys, to find the infant who is the reincarnation of the Lama. When the child is old enough he is taken away from his parents and educated in the Buddhist faith. Could this be the origin of the story of the Three Wise Men? Could Jesus have been taken to India as a child and taught to be a priest.
The Russian writer, Nikolai Notovitch, travelling in India in the 19th century, discovered an ancient manuscript in a Buddhist monastery in Tibet. In his book The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ, Notovitch translated this manuscript, and it tells of a divine child called Issa, born in the 1st century to a poor family in Israel. Issa came to India at the age of 14, where he learned the laws of Buddhism before returning to Israel at the age of 29.
This idea would certainly explain the otherwise odd fact that from the age of 14 to 29 there is absolutely no record of Jesus’ existence in Palestine. Certainly the later teachings and miracles of Jesus have uncanny parallels with the teachings and miracles of the Buddha. Loving your enemies and the idea that the meek will inherit the earth have absolutely no tradition or precedent in Judaism. But they are entirely consistent with Buddhism.”
Another webpage with similar info: http://www.goacom.org/overseas-digest/Religion/jesus-in-kashmir.htm
Interesting stuff. I’m entirely okay with arguing and considering that Jesus didn’t even exist, but was rather a spiritual figure of Paul’s, but I’m equally okay about arguing and considering the ideas put forward in this documentary, that he was just an ordinary man who was believed to be a messiah, just like the many others, meaning the Gospels are merely mistaken accounts.
Thoughts on this theory?
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" -- Carl Sagan
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I don't have any thoughts, I'll check the video out in a little bit. But I was debating someone a while back about how Christianity is similar to Buddhism. I could use this info one day.
Atheist Books
Atheism is contradictory. You can't decide if Jesus died or rose from the dead , whether he walked on water or ice, or if he even lived at all!
wow - what?
I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I've got to tell you, you'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who believes that anyone can rise from the dead ... as for the historicity of Jesus, the jury is still out for some of us - but that is a kind of a seperate issue from whether we think god exists. Our atheism doesn't hinge on the historicity of Jesus - it hinges on our intellectual honesty ... so what if we have different informed opinions on Jesus (or, on an ironic side note, happen to be extermely open-minded on the subject) - that has no real bearing on the integrity of our position.
Or were you just trying to say something provocative and inflammatory?
I'm off myspace.com so you can only find me here: http://geoffreymgolia.blogspot.com
That's an absurd comment. Atheism is simply about not believing in a god. There's no contradiction. If there is no god then Jesus was not the son of a god or divine and there is no evidence that the Jesus portrayed in the bible even existed.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
"You can't decide if Jesus died or rose from the dead"
This belongs in fundies say the darnest things.
The second sentence had nothing to do with the first.
Christianity is so contradictory. Christians can't decide whether evolution happened, whether gays are evil, whether the state should be separate from the church, or whether the Bible should be literal or figurative!
Atheists disagree on historical points about Jesus. So? And I should point out, you would be hard pressed to find an atheist who believes that Jesus actually rose from the dead or walked on the water. When it comes to Jesus's "miracles", most atheists would pick
a) Misinterpretation/exaggeration of actual, but mundanely natural, event.
b) Mythmaking at work, as stories were told about an actual Jesus who did nothing similar to the miracle depicted
c) A miracle that never happened by a man that never lived.
I can't imagine you'd ever find one who said that the miracles were true miracles and yet still disbelieved.
Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.
I've got to say, I watched this and I found it VERY thought provoking. I think that if this could be proven to be true, it would certainly be the end of Christianity in it's current form.
Still, even if it's true and the historical Jesus existed, it is not certain that he even thought of himself as a Messiah, nor would it prove that the gospel accounts are indeed correct.
If this story were to be found true, it would prove one thing. Jesus of Nazereth was likely a first century philosopher who was crucified for blasphemy, survived, and went to Kashmir claiming to return.
Still, this is very fascinating. I wish the tomb could be escavated, checked and dated.
YOU shut the fuck up! WE'LL save America!
You act as if all claims from all atheists make up 'atheism'. This is your error.
1) Atheism is a lack of belief in the claims of theists. It does not entail any specific counter belief. Ergo there is no contradiction.
2) Some atheists are mythicists, others believe that a man named jesus who inspired the gospels, may have lived. Unless you can show that one atheist believes both at the same time, you don't have a contradiction.
3) Some mythicists may even entertain a hypothetical 'what if' for the sake of refuting a theist argument. A hypothetical acceptance for the sake of argument is not an endorsement of a claim.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
This is a better way to say what I just said....
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'