Ukraine

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Ukraine

We in Slovakia stand with Ukraine, and we welcome refugees into our homes and communuties. We have shelters and volunteers ready. The rest of the world, please consider giving responsibly to a pro-Ukrainian charity, for example, one of these: https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/02/24/how-to-help-the-people-in-ukraine/

No to facism, no to imperialism, no to mafia government.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:We in Slovakia

iwbiek wrote:

We in Slovakia stand with Ukraine, and we welcome refugees into our homes and communuties. We have shelters and volunteers ready. The rest of the world, please consider giving responsibly to a pro-Ukrainian charity, for example, one of these: https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/02/24/how-to-help-the-people-in-ukraine/

No to facism, no to imperialism, no to mafia government.

 

I haven't logged/posted here in years, but recently I was checking to see how you were doing. I knew you lived near Ukraine.

Fuck Putin. Fuck the Russian Oligarchy.

I'll make a donation shortly.


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Please do. I'm headed to the

Please do. I'm headed to the border tomorrow with a group of folks to pick up some refugees--mainly women and children; most of the men are staying behind to fight. Various people in our village have offered accommodations. Some might be crashing at our place too. This shit is real.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Btw, thanks for checkin' in,

Btw, thanks for checkin' in, buddy. It's been a whirlwind week. I had no idea anyone here would even see my post. I just did it out of loyalty to our friend, who's a Ukrainian transplant to Slovakia. She told my wife in a phonecall yesterday, in tears, that the best thing we can do is to tell the truth about what's going on. In Slovakia, we're OK. We're a NATO member country, so I'm not too worried. If that fucking mafioso attacks here, it's basically nuclear holocaust, in which case, nobody will left to give a shit.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I sympathize with the people

I sympathize with the people of Ukraine, and I'd support if I had money to. But lets not pretend this is only Russia's fault. The West backed Russia into a corner and ignored them for years. This was inevitable. And it's only going to get worse the more people ignore the West's complicity.

All I have to say.

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OK, but let Russia react to

OK, but let Russia react to the West, not innocent civilians in Ukraine. I'm not going to pretend the US and NATO never did anything to Russia, but Ukraine certainly didn't.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 Glad to hear you're ok.

 Glad to hear you're ok. The US cements its place as douchebag country of the millennium - Ukraine sends troops to every stupid war we got involved in the past 20-years, with countries that didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of attacking us. Now as a country that can be a real global problem expands we sit with our thumbs up our asses. You think we'd have learned from WW2 that nutjobs aren't going to just stay in their corner of the world. Obviously we didn't learn shit.  The US should have started a massive "training" exercise in Ukraine the week Russia moved troops to the border. Fuck the US.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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While 99% of this tragedy is

While 99% of this tragedy is Putin's to own, the US bears some responsibility for vocally advocating for Ukrainian membership in NATO for so many years, when it wasn't their decision to make, and also when they knew damn well the Alliance was extremely hesitant to admit them. While I believe in national sovereignty and Ukraine's right to seek membership in whatever international group it wants, their acceptance has always been a huge long shot, and the US acted like it was a done deal. Of course, Putin knew all this damn well too, but the US really gifted him tons of gasoline for his propaganda dumpster fire.

I will also say this: Putin is full of shit. The oligarchs robbed the military blind for two decades. God only knows how many of his nukes would actually fire, and I don't believe his crazy man schtick for a second. He hasn't got the cojones to push the button, and he doesn't exactly have the same unilateral control of the matter as the POTUS does. Nothing has changed since the Cold War: Russia talks up its capabilities and the US goes along with it to galvanize public opinion. Of course, I could be wrong about all this, and it's good for everyone it's not my call to make, but I'm convinced of it. More and more people are starting to realize the emperor is naked.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:While 99% of

iwbiek wrote:

While 99% of this tragedy is Putin's to own, the US bears some responsibility for vocally advocating for Ukrainian membership in NATO for so many years, when it wasn't their decision to make, and also when they knew damn well the Alliance was extremely hesitant to admit them. While I believe in national sovereignty and Ukraine's right to seek membership in whatever international group it wants, their acceptance has always been a huge long shot, and the US acted like it was a done deal. Of course, Putin knew all this damn well too, but the US really gifted him tons of gasoline for his propaganda dumpster fire.

I will also say this: Putin is full of shit. The oligarchs robbed the military blind for two decades. God only knows how many of his nukes would actually fire, and I don't believe his crazy man schtick for a second. He hasn't got the cojones to push the button, and he doesn't exactly have the same unilateral control of the matter as the POTUS does. Nothing has changed since the Cold War: Russia talks up its capabilities and the US goes along with it to galvanize public opinion. Of course, I could be wrong about all this, and it's good for everyone it's not my call to make, but I'm convinced of it. More and more people are starting to realize the emperor is naked.

How is this the U.S's fault? Ukrain knows damned well this is just like Hitler's move to make an excuse to invade Poland. Of course they want to be part of NATO. And why should we turn them away? Fuck Putin. If he goes for the scorched earth tactic, he is going to. If you know a cerial kiler has the drop on you and is going to kill you and there is no stopping it, at that point you have nothing to lose.

 

I'd only hope that there is a guy like the Russian during the Cuban Missle Crisis who will pop him if he were to really try it. That Russian back then didn't have anyone killed to prevent a nuclear war, but he had the mind to know what mutual distruction is. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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iwbiek wrote:While 99% of

iwbiek wrote:

While 99% of this tragedy is Putin's to own, the US bears some responsibility for vocally advocating for Ukrainian membership in NATO for so many years, when it wasn't their decision to make, and also when they knew damn well the Alliance was extremely hesitant to admit them. While I believe in national sovereignty and Ukraine's right to seek membership in whatever international group it wants, their acceptance has always been a huge long shot, and the US acted like it was a done deal. Of course, Putin knew all this damn well too, but the US really gifted him tons of gasoline for his propaganda dumpster fire.

I will also say this: Putin is full of shit. The oligarchs robbed the military blind for two decades. God only knows how many of his nukes would actually fire, and I don't believe his crazy man schtick for a second. He hasn't got the cojones to push the button, and he doesn't exactly have the same unilateral control of the matter as the POTUS does. Nothing has changed since the Cold War: Russia talks up its capabilities and the US goes along with it to galvanize public opinion. Of course, I could be wrong about all this, and it's good for everyone it's not my call to make, but I'm convinced of it. More and more people are starting to realize the emperor is naked.

How is this the U.S's fault? Ukrain knows damned well this is just like Hitler's move to make an excuse to invade Poland. Of course they want to be part of NATO. And why should we turn them away? Fuck Putin. If he goes for the scorched earth tactic, he is going to. If you know a cerial kiler has the drop on you and is going to kill you and there is no stopping it, at that point you have nothing to lose.

 

I'd only hope that there is a guy like the Russian during the Cuban Missle Crisis who will pop him if he were to really try it. That Russian back then didn't have anyone killed to prevent a nuclear war, but he had the mind to know what mutual distruction is. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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The invasion of Ukraine is

The invasion of Ukraine is absolutely no one's fault but Putin's, 100%. I revise my earlier statement because fuck Putin after all the atrocities I've witnessed and heard first-hand accounts of during the last 5 weeks (we have several families of refugees in our house and village and have heard of lots of horrors). That being said, my point was it was disengenuous of the US to act like Ukraine's inclusion in NATO was a done deal back in 2008 (or was it 2009?), when they knew damn well that other members of the Alliance, mainly France and Germany, were not going for it. Not saying who was right or wrong in the decision over Ukraine's NATO membership, but the US definitely knew Ukraine's membership was not a foregone conclusion, yet chose to bait Russia with it anyway, probably as a hangover from the hawkish Bush "empire of evil" years (not to mention the fact that Obama was only fractionally less hawkish than Bush).

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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The invasion of Ukraine is

The invasion of Ukraine is absolutely no one's fault but Putin's, 100%. I revise my earlier statement because fuck Putin after all the atrocities I've witnessed and heard first-hand accounts of during the last 5 weeks (we have several families of refugees in our house and village and have heard of lots of horrors). That being said, my point was it was disengenuous of the US to act like Ukraine's inclusion in NATO was a done deal back in 2008 (or was it 2009?), when they knew damn well that other members of the Alliance, mainly France and Germany, were not going for it. Not saying who was right or wrong in the decision over Ukraine's NATO membership, but the US definitely knew Ukraine's membership was not a foregone conclusion, yet chose to bait Russia with it anyway, probably as a hangover from the hawkish Bush "empire of evil" years (not to mention the fact that Obama was only fractionally less hawkish than Bush).

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:The invasion of

iwbiek wrote:

The invasion of Ukraine is absolutely no one's fault but Putin's, 100%. I revise my earlier statement because fuck Putin after all the atrocities I've witnessed and heard first-hand accounts of during the last 5 weeks (we have several families of refugees in our house and village and have heard of lots of horrors). That being said, my point was it was disengenuous of the US to act like Ukraine's inclusion in NATO was a done deal back in 2008 (or was it 2009?), when they knew damn well that other members of the Alliance, mainly France and Germany, were not going for it. Not saying who was right or wrong in the decision over Ukraine's NATO membership, but the US definitely knew Ukraine's membership was not a foregone conclusion, yet chose to bait Russia with it anyway, probably as a hangover from the hawkish Bush "empire of evil" years (not to mention the fact that Obama was only fractionally less hawkish than Bush).

Outside this topic, there is no nuance in the debate of playing world's police vs isolationism. On the GOP right, they don't see a military contract through the private sector they don't love, despite ike's warning of an unchecked military industrial complex. Not to mention it is sick someone like Jeff Bezos pays no federal income tax and gets on top of that tax breaks, wich is basically free money for him at the expense of the rest of us who have to compinsate for what he does not pay in. 

 

But then there are those on the right, and even some on the left that say we sould not play world's police and stick to ourselves. Well. that doesn't really work either. Hitler rose to power because after WW1 the allies left Germany to rot, and left them in debt and economic ruins. Very easy for a madman to rise to power preying off the desperation of others. 

 

If a gap is left by leaving a venue, be it the enemy or be it friend, the other side will always try to expand and fill the gap that was left. In the west we do need strategic military bases like in Germany and Okinawa and some Arab states too. China wants to take Taiwan back from the "One state two systems" like they are with Hong Kong.

There are really no absolutes in situations like this. I will say no matter what, I think Ukrain's President is very brave and he really has, and rightfully so, been standing up to that KGB murderer. I do wish you to be safe and hope this ends soon with Putin looking for way out to save face. I can't imagine what it is like in Ukrain now. But you and all the Ukrianians and the President have my support.

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Thanks. Yes, Zelenskyy is a

Thanks. Yes, Zelenskyy is a badass. He's like Churchill crossed with a WWII partisan. And he was a comedic actor! Stick that up your fuckin' toxic masculinity, Putin-lovers. That's like if Steve Martin had guided London through the Blitz. I guarantee you if Moscow was in the same position Kyiv was in a couple weeks ago, Vlad would already be in the Cayman Islands with the entire Russian budget in a fucking steamer trunk.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Thanks. Yes,

iwbiek wrote:

Thanks. Yes, Zelenskyy is a badass. He's like Churchill crossed with a WWII partisan. And he was a comedic actor! Stick that up your fuckin' toxic masculinity, Putin-lovers. That's like if Steve Martin had guided London through the Blitz. I guarantee you if Moscow was in the same position Kyiv was in a couple weeks ago, Vlad would already be in the Cayman Islands with the entire Russian budget in a fucking steamer trunk.

What is so fucked up and tragicaly ironic about Putin's horible logic, is that he is attacking a Jewish comedian. How the fuck can one be Jewish and a Nazi? That's like Chickens for KFC.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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iwbiek wrote:Thanks. Yes,

iwbiek wrote:

Thanks. Yes, Zelenskyy is a badass. He's like Churchill crossed with a WWII partisan. And he was a comedic actor! Stick that up your fuckin' toxic masculinity, Putin-lovers. That's like if Steve Martin had guided London through the Blitz. I guarantee you if Moscow was in the same position Kyiv was in a couple weeks ago, Vlad would already be in the Cayman Islands with the entire Russian budget in a fucking steamer trunk.

What is so fucked up and tragicaly ironic about Putin's horible logic, is that he is attacking a Jewish comedian. How the fuck can one be Jewish and a Nazi? That's like Chickens for KFC.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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 Since 1945 the only

 Reply to Beyond Saving:

Since 1945 the only decisive military victory was the first Gulf War under Bush, Sr.  Despite the  US having a military budget that dwarfs that of China and Russia combined the US has failed to live up to it's superpower status.  The most recent example is that after 20 years of the "war on terror" Afghanistan is now firmly back in the hands of Islamic extremists whom we also gifted with over 80 billion dollars  worth of ordnance to use as they wish.

 

I won't even elaborate on what a failure America's involvement in Vietnam was except to say the communists won.

 

Apparently the patriotic fantasy is that the US war machine should intervene in Ukraine to save the day and kick out nuclear armed Russia. I guess after that victory ( not fucking likely ) then America can step in and save Taiwan from China ( not fucking likely ).  Also China has the second largest military budget in the world.

 

o


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 Reply to Beyond Saving:

Since 1945 the only decisive military victory was the first Gulf War under Bush, Sr.  Despite the  US having a military budget that dwarfs that of China and Russia combined the US has failed to live up to it's superpower status.  The most recent example is that after 20 years of the "war on terror" Afghanistan is now firmly back in the hands of Islamic extremists whom we also gifted with over 80 billion dollars  worth of ordnance to use as they wish.

 

I won't even elaborate on what a failure America's involvement in Vietnam was except to say the communists won.

 

Apparently the patriotic fantasy is that the US war machine should intervene in Ukraine to save the day and kick out nuclear armed Russia. I guess after that victory ( not fucking likely ) then America can step in and save Taiwan from China ( not fucking likely ).  Also China has the second largest military budget in the world.

 

o

Not really, Bush Sr didn't finish the job, he left Saddam in power. But as far as leaving Afghanistan, Trump had already set the stage for leaving, Biden simply followed through. I will say that leaving all that military stuff there is a bit baffling. That was a huge fuck up. But it would have probably been worse if Trump had done the exit while he was in office.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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The Ukrainians don't even

The Ukrainians don't even need the Yanks at this point. They're getting shit done. What Putin and his cocksucking lackeys fail to recall, whenever they start crowing about the "victory over Nazism" in the old days, is that, Soviet Union or not, the Ukrainians were on the frontlines for much of that shit. They are and always have been a nation of partisans. How Putin thought this was going to be an easy victory is beyond me.

Speaking of victory, the Ukrainians will be victorious. Having lived in this part of the world for over 17 years now, I have no doubt of that. The only question is how many rivers of blood will have to be shed in the meantime. A few weeks ago, I read an interview with a US defense expert who had worked in Eastern Europe for many years. I'm too tired now to track down the article, but, basically, the interviewer asked something like, "How long will the Ukrainians hold out?" To which the guy responded, "Until they're all dead." I concur on that one.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:We in Slovakia

iwbiek wrote:

We in Slovakia stand with Ukraine, and we welcome refugees into our homes and communuties. We have shelters and volunteers ready. The rest of the world, please consider giving responsibly to a pro-Ukrainian charity, for example, one of these: https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/02/24/how-to-help-the-people-in-ukraine/

No to facism, no to imperialism, no to mafia government.

 

Yes, let's all pretend that countries have infintie resourses to take care of endless streams of immigrants and refugees. Let's pack as many people as we can into high priced housing, let's destroy more wildness areas to make room for all the new refugees to live here. Let's kick our own citizens into the streets as homeless so the refugees can have a home. Then we'll blame the homeless and housing crisis on 'capitalism' and not too many fucking people because we invite the whole world to move here.

Putin's plan is to ethnically cleanse Ukraine of non-Russians. So Putin did not really want a quick victory. He'd still be stuck with Ukrainians that are not Russian nationalists still living there. He wants a long war so Ukrainians opposed to him will leave. The west must play along and welcome all these refugees even though we all have major affordable housing crisis and now food crisis in the west. Kick our own citizens to the streets so we don't appear xenophopbic. So all the 'refugees welcome' people play right into Putin's hand.

Supposedly, the west stands with Ukraine, so why do we take in draft dodgers from Ukraine? I support taking in women and children while the men fight to take back their homes. But NATO countries are all setting up to permanently resettle these people. So Ukraine becomes ethnically Russian, the west gets a refugee crisis. Just what Putin wants to see. 

I know, I know, virtue signalling is all that matters and one must ignore the reality of living on a planet with limited resourses to sustain human life. So virtue signal away....

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote: iwbiek wrote: We

EXC wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

We in Slovakia stand with Ukraine, and we welcome refugees into our homes and communuties. We have shelters and volunteers ready. The rest of the world, please consider giving responsibly to a pro-Ukrainian charity, for example, one of these: https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/02/24/how-to-help-the-people-in-ukraine/

No to facism, no to imperialism, no to mafia government.

 

Yes, let's all pretend that countries have infintie resourses to take care of endless streams of immigrants and refugees. Let's pack as many people as we can into high priced housing, let's destroy more wildness areas to make room for all the new refugees to live here. Let's kick our own citizens into the streets as homeless so the refugees can have a home. Then we'll blame the homeless and housing crisis on 'capitalism' and not too many fucking people because we invite the whole world to move here.

Putin's plan is to ethnically cleanse Ukraine of non-Russians. So Putin did not really want a quick victory. He'd still be stuck with Ukrainians that are not Russian nationalists still living there. He wants a long war so Ukrainians opposed to him will leave. The west must play along and welcome all these refugees even though we all have major affordable housing crisis and now food crisis in the west. Kick our own citizens to the streets so we don't appear xenophopbic. So all the 'refugees welcome' people play right into Putin's hand.

Supposedly, the west stands with Ukraine, so why do we take in draft dodgers from Ukraine? I support taking in women and children while the men fight to take back their homes. But NATO countries are all setting up to permanently resettle these people. So Ukraine becomes ethnically Russian, the west gets a refugee crisis. Just what Putin wants to see. 

I k

 

now, I know, virtue signalling is all that matters and one must ignore the reality of living on a planet with limited resourses to sustain human life. So virtue signal away....

 

Oh stop. Nobody is saying we should have unlimited people comming in. Just like a lifeboat on a ship, it only has only so many seats. WE GET THAT. We are saying not to be racist assholes, and villify a fellow human being like they are a cockroach infestation. But sorry, evolution is always going to cause people in fear of oppression, fear of starving, fear of dying in crime or war, cause that person to find a safer sanctuary. That is called migration, and our species has always done that, for good or bad.

I am not going to put up with the bullshit dog whistle crap comming from Fucks Noise and the GOP winking at White Nationalists with their party leader who thinks assholes shouting "Jews will not replace us" are "good people". Let me clue you in, all 7 billion humans eventually get replace by the next generation. And there is no such thing as religion or political party being the 5th amino acid in DNA.  If for example, every Palelestinian and every Israeli were to take DNA tests, they would know they have always overlaped in DNA. 

The issue isn't refugees, the issue are that humans are so busy being stuck on labels, they cannot see the biger picture that no matter where you go, we are an invasive species and the bigger we get as a population worldwide, the quicker we exploit and exhaust resources and that causes infighting and international fighting. But that does not excues anyone to be a fucking dick to humans merely trying to survive. Even if you have to deport someone, don't fucking treat them like trash or a villian in a slasher movie. Most humans are not criminals, and most humans simply want to survive.

 

 

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EXC wrote: iwbiek wrote: We

EXC wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

We in Slovakia stand with Ukraine, and we welcome refugees into our homes and communuties. We have shelters and volunteers ready. The rest of the world, please consider giving responsibly to a pro-Ukrainian charity, for example, one of these: https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/02/24/how-to-help-the-people-in-ukraine/

No to facism, no to imperialism, no to mafia government.

 

Yes, let's all pretend that countries have infintie resourses to take care of endless streams of immigrants and refugees. Let's pack as many people as we can into high priced housing, let's destroy more wildness areas to make room for all the new refugees to live here. Let's kick our own citizens into the streets as homeless so the refugees can have a home. Then we'll blame the homeless and housing crisis on 'capitalism' and not too many fucking people because we invite the whole world to move here.

Putin's plan is to ethnically cleanse Ukraine of non-Russians. So Putin did not really want a quick victory. He'd still be stuck with Ukrainians that are not Russian nationalists still living there. He wants a long war so Ukrainians opposed to him will leave. The west must play along and welcome all these refugees even though we all have major affordable housing crisis and now food crisis in the west. Kick our own citizens to the streets so we don't appear xenophopbic. So all the 'refugees welcome' people play right into Putin's hand.

Supposedly, the west stands with Ukraine, so why do we take in draft dodgers from Ukraine? I support taking in women and children while the men fight to take back their homes. But NATO countries are all setting up to permanently resettle these people. So Ukraine becomes ethnically Russian, the west gets a refugee crisis. Just what Putin wants to see. 

I k

 

now, I know, virtue signalling is all that matters and one must ignore the reality of living on a planet with limited resourses to sustain human life. So virtue signal away....

 

Oh stop. Nobody is saying we should have unlimited people comming in. Just like a lifeboat on a ship, it only has only so many seats. WE GET THAT. We are saying not to be racist assholes, and villify a fellow human being like they are a cockroach infestation. But sorry, evolution is always going to cause people in fear of oppression, fear of starving, fear of dying in crime or war, cause that person to find a safer sanctuary. That is called migration, and our species has always done that, for good or bad.

I am not going to put up with the bullshit dog whistle crap comming from Fucks Noise and the GOP winking at White Nationalists with their party leader who thinks assholes shouting "Jews will not replace us" are "good people". Let me clue you in, all 7 billion humans eventually get replaced by the next generation. And there is no such thing as religion or political party being the 5th amino acid in DNA.  If for example, every Palelestinian and every Israeli were to take DNA tests, they would know they have always overlaped in DNA. 

The issue isn't refugees, the issue are that humans are so busy being stuck on labels, they cannot see the biger picture that no matter where you go, we are an invasive species and the bigger we get as a population worldwide, the quicker we exploit and exhaust resources and that causes infighting and international fighting. But that does not excuse  anyone to be a fucking dick to humans merely trying to survive. Even if you have to deport someone, don't fucking treat them like trash or a villian in a slasher movie. Most humans are not criminals, and most humans simply want to survive.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: Oh stop.

Brian37 wrote:

 

Oh stop. Nobody is saying we should have unlimited people comming in. Just like a lifeboat on a ship, it only has only so many seats. WE GET THAT. We are saying not to be racist assholes, and villify a fellow human being like they are a cockroach infestation. But sorry, evolution is always going to cause people in fear of oppression, fear of starving, fear of dying in crime or war, cause that person to find a safer sanctuary. That is called migration, and our species has always done that, for good or bad.

 

 

But you are doing exactly the same thing in labeling me and anyone opposed to mass immigration as racist. I'm opposed to resettling Ukrainians here, but they are white people. The reason is we don't have housing or other resourse to handle more people. When we do and when it can be don without more enviromental destruction fine. But people need places to live and grow their food. We don't have any more without destroying more of the enviroment. Can that be a valid reason or must I be called racist to make the leftists feel morally superior?

It should be obvious that Putin's goal is Lebensraum for the ethnic Russian people. But you can't have an honest conversaton about the 800 pound gorrilla of human population growth over the past 150 years or the fact we are adding 1 million people every 4 days with no ablity to feed or house all these people. So it just becomes a demonizing of the other side because no rational debate is not possible on the actual human condtion. We just have to pretend that adding all these refugees is not a huge problem lest we be called racist and fascist. So onward must go the housing crisis and enviromental destruction...

 

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Brian37 wrote: Oh stop.

DP


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:Since

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Since 1945 the only decisive military victory was the first Gulf War under Bush, Sr.  Despite the  US having a military budget that dwarfs that of China and Russia combined the US has failed to live up to it's superpower status.  The most recent example is that after 20 years of the "war on terror" Afghanistan is now firmly back in the hands of Islamic extremists whom we also gifted with over 80 billion dollars  worth of ordnance to use as they wish.

All wars funded by taxation are wrong and only serve the military-industrial complex, not the cause of human freedom. If people believe a cause is worth fighting for, they should put their money where their mouth is and fund it themselves, fight it themselves. like the American revolution. Our wars do nothing but make weapons merchants and pro-war politicans richer.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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 Doesn't work like that EXE

 

 EXE, I agree that the military industrial complex has a major appitite, and humanity should not feed it so much. But what the fuck do you want? Evolution isn't going to change, humans will always fight over resource and make religious and political ideological excuses to get control over them. We are not above nature, we are simply one species among many, and we compete with each other for those resources. 

I want to pay taxes to have a military, because like it or not, there is no fucking such thing as a utopia, and isolation doesn't always work. Isolating Germany after WW1 and the allies not doing anything to prevent Hitler from rising to power gave the entire world a fucking shitshow that could have been avoided. 

And since the world is not perfect, I am damned fucking glad, there were people braver than me, who kicked the Nazi's sorry asses and made Hitler eat a bullet in shame. Otherwise we could be under Nazi rule if Hitler had not been such a dumbass with his resources. He did come as close to having German subs in the Hudson river filming Manhatten.  

The issue isn't having a military, that is always going to be an unfortunate part of our species. Taxes pay for that. The issue is how we can better distribute our resources to things like intelligence and cybler security, and diplomacy. 

 

As far as Ukraine, I do not have any simple solutions. We did see what happened to Europe when not enough people realized that if you appease Hitler he will stop, wasn't going to work. He didn't stop, until we made him stop. Putin has that same mentality. If you think he will stop if we give him Ukraine, you are not learning the lessons of history. 

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 Unfortunately strategy

 

Unfortunately strategy matters in global intrests. Putin wants access to ports because his economy is in a shambles and he is using propaganda to get his public to back him, and unfortunately there is enough people in Russia who buy his hyper nationalism. He is very dangerous because he feels like he has nothing to lose and he wants to preserve his legacy by proving himself to be a great leader. Unfortunately, his narcissism and fragility in wanting that status is a threat to regional and global stability.  Like any asshole bully, you give them an inch, they will expand until you stop them. 

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 Unfortunately strategy

 

Unfortunately strategy matters in global intrests. Putin wants access to ports because his economy is in a shambles and he is using propaganda to get his public to back him, and unfortunately there is enough people in Russia who buy his hyper nationalism. He is very dangerous because he feels like he has nothing to lose and he wants to preserve his legacy by proving himself to be a great leader. Unfortunately, his narcissism and fragility in wanting that status is a threat to regional and global stability.  Like any asshole bully, you give them an inch, they will expand until you stop them. 

 

Poland lived under soviet rule for a long time. And if you look at where it is located, it also has lots of whaterfront property, and Hitler wanted Poland for the same reason. So if you think Putin is going to simply stop at Ukraine if we back down, again, you are failing to learn the lessons of history. It would be nice if we could simply not play world's police. I would love that, but the world is not flat, and our global interests are part of a planet that we cant migrate off of.  Ignoring a threat will not make it go away. 

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 I don't have a problem

 I don't have a problem with WANTING to help Ukraine and Ukrainian refugees. The problem as usual with people on both the left and right is their unwillingness to accept the realities of the world in which we live. To me, just saying don't be fascist or racist is as dumb as as saying accept Jesus and all will be well.

If you accept millions of refugees into your country, you are of course hurting the poor and middle class in your own country. These refugees are compting for the extremely limited housing and driving down low paying job wages. making the cost of fuel and food go up. You have to find new places for them to live, grow their food, build highways, schools, hospitals, parks, etc... So you have to take more wilderness area and reuse it to support your growing population. The more people you accept the more pollution and trash that will be generated. There is no magic pill like tax the rich or have the government own everything to make everything wonderful. You can't just virtue signal your extreme compassion on every issue, values are at odds with other values.

Leftists love to tell us that food and housing are a human rights. Both Hitler and Putin were waging war to secure land for these for their people. So shouldn't they be hero's of leftists that believe these are human rights? It seem your only critisism should be that they favored their own people over others. The only thing that will stop these kinds of leaders is global cooperation on population growth and the competition for scarce resourses.

We are not going even going to begin to tackle the problems of poverty, homelessness, war, disease and enviromental damage until we acknowledge the 800 pound gorillia. Human population has gone from under 2 billion 100 years ago to now 8 billion. All the deaths from Coronavirus was just a tiny blip on the exponential growth curve. So if there is going to be a world war against Putin and China for doing land grabs, shouldn't there be an acknowlegement of the root cause, because what we did after Hitler obviously has not worked.

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 That is not true. I

 That is not true. 

I accept the reality that there will not be a perfect utopia where you can save everyone. And dispite what you might think, most liberals do understand this. Having said that, what we object to is the vilification and "otherism" to justify being dicks to people they have never met. 

Even Ukrainians do this, not because they are evil, but any group of people when they get used to having a pattern they can rely on, and that gets upset by the unexpected, they get scared. I have heard stories of Ukrainians getting upset with migrants who went to school there, or have mixed relatives, and they get mad at a dark skinned person who gets to cross the border to safety before they can. And even the countries that do accept Ukrainian refugees also some there, look sideways at a dark skinned person or mixed person who crosses into their country.

 

In America it fucking infuriates me when racist assholes vilify their fellow human beings because they simply need to eat and don't want to die. That is evolution, and most people when stressed to that point, are going to leave and attept to go somplace in the world where they feel they can be safe. 

But of course, there is a certain amount that will not get in, and a certian amount we have to deport. But I will always say FUCK YOU to assholes who do not understand, that person you are villifying is a human, just like you. 

I know you are familiar with the M.S. St Luis. And don't bring up Cuba, Cuba was merely stepping stone to their real goal, America, which turned them away too. And it wasn't simply "We don't have enough room for more refugees", most of the world was anti Semetic, even many Americans at that time. So even back then we were scared of "the other".  There were many Nazi sympathizers unfortunately living in America, and many famous high powers at that. We sent back over 900 Jews only to find out a good portion of them died by the hands of the Nazis. 

 

You deport hispanics back to Mexico, or central or south America, they are at risk of starvation, environmental disasters, crime and political fighting. Nobody can or should blame a fellow human being for not wanting to die. 

 

And I am also aware that we are the invasive species, and the world's populaiton is exceding the earth's ability to absorb our damage and polution to regenerate. The earth itself will be fine without us, it is one tough customer, and even other life, like the water bear and cockroaches. But, not even knowing that justifies vilifying others. 

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Brian37 wrote: That is not

Brian37 wrote:

 That is not true. 

I accept the reality that there will not be a perfect utopia where you can save everyone. And dispite what you might think, most liberals do understand this. Having said that, what we object to is the vilification and "otherism" to justify being dicks to people they have never met. 

Even Ukrainians do this, not because they are evil, but any group of people when they get used to having a pattern they can rely on, and that gets upset by the unexpected, they get scared. I have heard stories of Ukrainians getting upset with migrants who went to school there, or have mixed relatives, and they get mad at a dark skinned person who gets to cross the border to safety before they can. And even the countries that do accept Ukrainian refugees also some there, look sideways at a dark skinned person or mixed person who crosses into their country.

 

In America it fucking infuriates me when racist assholes vilify their fellow human beings because they simply need to eat and don't want to die. That is evolution, and most people when stressed to that point, are going to leave and attept to go somplace in the world where they feel they can be safe. 

But of course, there is a certain amount that will not get in, and a certian amount we have to deport. But I will always say FUCK YOU to assholes who do not understand, that person you are villifying is a human, just like you. 

I know you are familiar with the M.S. St Luis. And don't bring up Cuba, Cuba was merely stepping stone to their real goal, America, which turned them away too. And it wasn't simply "We don't have enough room for more refugees", most of the world was anti Semetic, even many Americans at that time. So even back then we were scared of "the other".  There were many Nazi sympathizers unfortunately living in America, and many famous high powers at that. We sent back over 900 Jews only to find out a good portion of them died by the hands of the Nazis. 

 

You deport hispanics back to Mexico, or central or south America, they are at risk of starvation, environmental disasters, crime and political fighting. Nobody can or should blame a fellow human being for not wanting to die. 

 

And I am also aware that we are the invasive species, and the world's populaiton is exceding the earth's ability to absorb our damage and polution to regenerate. The earth itself will be fine without us, it is one tough customer, and even other life, like the water bear and cockroaches. But, not even knowing that justifies vilifying others. 

So suppose the Nazis had not been "dicks". The Holocaust and WWII would not have killed all those people. They would all go on to have lots of children and grandchildren. So Europe would have like double the population they have now. Even with all those deaths, there is now a massive housing crisis, they are facing a food crisis. How exactly would they support this massive population without massive enviromental and social problems? How would Europe then take in all the refugees from wars in other places?

I'm find with not vilifying people based upon their race or ethnic background. My problem is people that continually live in denial of the reality of the world we live in, that population pressures will create all these problems. We'll of course have racism, war, poverty, homelessness, etc... until we all admit what our true condition really is and do something about it.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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iwbiek wrote:OK, but let

iwbiek wrote:

OK, but let Russia react to the West, not innocent civilians in Ukraine. I'm not going to pretend the US and NATO never did anything to Russia, but Ukraine certainly didn't.

Tell that to America, who financially and logistically overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in favour of an anti-Russian government, who from day 1 denied the people in the contested region the right to vote and have spent 8 years abusing the civilians in said region, in a piss poor attempt to put even more missiles on Russia's borders. This entire thing is the fault of the US.

The idiots believing US propaganda are as bad as the idiots believing Russian propaganda. The more support Ukraine gets the less of a Ukraine there will be when Russia is done with them, and nothing the West can do short of nuclear war will stop Russia on it's quest for self defence. All you fools supporting the criminals in the US and Kiev are literally as bad as anyone supporting Putin. Too stupid to comprehend how all you're doing is supporting more innocent deaths on all sides.

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Vastet wrote:iwbiek

Vastet wrote:
iwbiek wrote:

OK, but let Russia react to the West, not innocent civilians in Ukraine. I'm not going to pretend the US and NATO never did anything to Russia, but Ukraine certainly didn't.

Tell that to America, who financially and logistically overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in favour of an anti-Russian government, who from day 1 denied the people in the contested region the right to vote and have spent 8 years abusing the civilians in said region, in a piss poor attempt to put even more missiles on Russia's borders. This entire thing is the fault of the US. The idiots believing US propaganda are as bad as the idiots believing Russian propaganda. The more support Ukraine gets the less of a Ukraine there will be when Russia is done with them, and nothing the West can do short of nuclear war will stop Russia on it's quest for self defence. All you fools supporting the criminals in the US and Kiev are literally as bad as anyone supporting Putin. Too stupid to comprehend how all you're doing is supporting more innocent deaths on all sides.

Wow!. The anti-war left still actually exists.

Suddenly, all the leftists that objected to all the US military intervention and military aid for the past 70 years have become big time war hawks. The real reason is that Putin is anti-globalist so the left in the USA has been totally manipulated by globalist propagada into supporting massive welfare for the military-industrial complex and another endless war with the resiquite mass immigration of refugees.

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EXC wrote:Vastet

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
iwbiek wrote:

OK, but let Russia react to the West, not innocent civilians in Ukraine. I'm not going to pretend the US and NATO never did anything to Russia, but Ukraine certainly didn't.

Tell that to America, who financially and logistically overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in favour of an anti-Russian government, who from day 1 denied the people in the contested region the right to vote and have spent 8 years abusing the civilians in said region, in a piss poor attempt to put even more missiles on Russia's borders. This entire thing is the fault of the US. The idiots believing US propaganda are as bad as the idiots believing Russian propaganda. The more support Ukraine gets the less of a Ukraine there will be when Russia is done with them, and nothing the West can do short of nuclear war will stop Russia on it's quest for self defence. All you fools supporting the criminals in the US and Kiev are literally as bad as anyone supporting Putin. Too stupid to comprehend how all you're doing is supporting more innocent deaths on all sides.

Wow!. The anti-war left still actually exists.

Suddenly, all the leftists that objected to all the US military intervention and military aid for the past 70 years have become big time war hawks. The real reason is that Putin is anti-globalist so the left in the USA has been totally manipulated by globalist propagada into supporting massive welfare for the military-industrial complex and another endless war with the resiquite mass immigration of refugees.

 

Once again you are full of it EXE. Biden's withdraw was origionally authored by Trump prior to Biden taking office. 

I see the parties flip constantly over the decades on overseas actions constantly. It is basically human nature to want to have power and when the other is in power the minority party politicians go against the majority. That is how our politics work. Just like Mitt Romney authored his own state health care bill and Obama modeld his ACA after Mitt's plan, then all the sudden the GOP didn't like it. 

 

I agree with Ike's warning of an over bloated industrial military complex. But still, there are always going to be compititon over distruptions in power, and when a void is created, enemies will seek to fill that void. We  do it, Russia does it China does it, both friend and foe. I thought that BOTH of Bush's wars were ill advised and we could have gotten better results without ground invasions. Bush did lie about Iraq and WMDs, but that did not make Saddam a good moral man. And we could have sent drone up Bin Laden's ass instead of Bush telegraphing our moves. They were a waste of money.

 

But in the case of Ukraine, this is different. This is an invasion by a tyrant, with REAL POWER and VERY REAL NUKES, hopefully we can keep this to a ground war regardless. But Putin doesn't want the Ukraine for religious or even political perposes or to "Make Russa Great Again". He ultimately wants to create a strategic position so he can have closer access to waterways to export his oil. He won't stop at Ukraine. He would if he could also take other nations and even Poland or Findland or Norway because of their access to the Arctic waters. 

 

It isn't a matter of playing word's police or isolationism. To me it is more like we need to pick our battles. But just on a moral tone, Putin is a bully, and on a strategic tone, we cannot aford Russia to incroach and undue all the progress the eastern nations made by breaking loose from the SOVIET rule, and Putin is a product of that rule. 

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Typical ignorant bullshit.

Typical ignorant bullshit. Russia is doing this despite oil, not for oil. The day they invaded was the day the gave up on Nordstream, and they knew it. Of course it was already dead because of American interference so it wasn't actually a loss.

Russia invaded for purely strategic reasons, and I'd have done exactly the same. So would have the US in their position. The world knows it too, which is why more than half the nations and more than half the population of Earth either stands with Russia or neutral to Russia.

Putin isn't even the driving force as propagandists have fooled you into believing, America is. Putin is simply defending Russia. He could die tomorrow and nothing would change, except perhaps Russia taking the gloves off and showing Ukraine and the West what a real assault on civilians looks like. You should be thanking Putin for avoiding civilian casualties as much as he has. The US was responsible for FAR more civilian casualties in Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq. If civilians weren't being avoided Kyiv would have been a crater less than a week into the invasion, and no nukes would have been necessary to make it so. Russia wouldn't be in an artillery war they'd have simply blasted the entirety of Ukraine into a wasteland.

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 It is for strategic

 It is for strategic reasons, so why the call for "de-Nazification" of Ukraine?

What was all the talk about "Peter The Great"?

The U.S. Would have done it too? Yea, duh, that is what foes have always done, compete for strategic positions. That still doesn't make Putin a hero to the world. 

Putin is full of shit, oil or not, he is a bully and a tyrant and to gloss that over is insane. Putin is just as much KGB "Pravda" today as when he was a Soviet shit stain. He is nobody's hero. 

And who is claiming the U.S. is perfect? We have done some pretty shitty things. The last war we fought wich made sense was WW2. Everything since has been quagmires. But that is a GOP issue, not the entire Country. Afghanistan we could have sent a drone up Bin Laden's ass instead of what Bush did in telegraphing a ground invasion. And yes, Bush lied his way into Iraq and we bought it. But we were invited the first time by Kuwait becuase Sadamn invaded. 

 

I do not think every Russian citizen is evil, I never have. But to imply  everyone there loves Putin is absurd. Many have family from the former eastern block nations, including Ukraine and are just as upset at the bloodshed. And since when did body counts become a metric to human cruelty. Our species has unfortunately fought long before even the first king states or written languages. Human tribalism is an unfortunate part of our species. But no, you are never going to convince me that Putin is good for Russia or the world for that matter. 

 

www.youtube.com/watch

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Brian37
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 It is for strategic

 It is for strategic reasons, so why the call for "de-Nazification" of Ukraine? Putin is a product of Stalin's CCCP. So do you really want to talk about body count? Putin killed less than Stalin? Is that really a good argument?

What was all the talk about "Peter The Great"?

The U.S. Would have done it too? Yea, duh, that is what foes have always done, compete for strategic positions. That still doesn't make Putin a hero to the world. 

Putin is full of shit, oil or not, he is a bully and a tyrant and to gloss that over is insane. Putin is just as much KGB "Pravda" today as when he was a Soviet shit stain. He is nobody's hero. 

And who is claiming the U.S. is perfect? We have done some pretty shitty things. The last war we fought wich made sense was WW2. Everything since has been quagmires. But that is a GOP issue, not the entire Country. Afghanistan we could have sent a drone up Bin Laden's ass instead of what Bush did in telegraphing a ground invasion. And yes, Bush lied his way into Iraq and we bought it. But we were invited the first time by Kuwait becuase Sadamn invaded. 

 

I do not think every Russian citizen is evil, I never have. But to imply  everyone there loves Putin is absurd. Many have family from the former eastern block nations, including Ukraine and are just as upset at the bloodshed. And since when did body counts become a metric to human cruelty? Our species has unfortunately fought long before even the first king states or written languages. Human tribalism is an unfortunate part of our species. But no, you are never going to convince me that Putin is good for Russia or the world for that matter. 

 

www.youtube.com/watch

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


Vastet
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Because Russians are just

Because Russians are just as inclined to use propaganda as Americans. Throw a hundred darts at the dart board and hope a few stick. The nazi one stuck because while exaggerated it still holds a kernel of truth to it. There are in fact right wing neo nazi's in Ukraine's government and military. The rub is the same can be said for most countries, if not all of them. They aren't a majority by any stretch. But noone hates nazis more than Russians, and if Russia convinces their people that Ukraine has nazis, then Russians will support killing those nazis. Propaganda 101. Americans supported Iraq because of the lie there were weapons of mass destruction. It's no different, except the US was 100% full of shit while Russia is only 90% full of shit.

Referencing historical victories and legends is the same side of the same coin.

Noone here is calling Putin a hero, don't be retarded. Putin is a politician. A much smarter politician than most, but a politician all the same.

You're an idiot. Putin is no different from most any American president in the last 80 years. Certainly no different from any American president in my 43 year lifetime. Indeed he's less a piece of shit than most of them. Obama assassinated more people in 8 years than Putin has in 20. Get off the American propaganda you hypocrite.

I never claimed anyone claimed the US is perfect. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the US villifying Russia for doing a fraction of the damage the US has done. Ukraine is nothing compared to the horrors the US has been directly and indirectly involved in this century alone. Yemen, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria: All of these America bears the brunt of responsibility for. Even Ukraine is the US's fault.

People who throw rocks from glass houses are pieces of shit who will get what's coming to them. Both America and Russia are losing this war, and China is laughing all the way to the bank as the Ukrainian puppet of America and Russia gets decimated, bankrupting both superpowers along the way. When all is said and done Russia and America will both claim victory over Ukraine's corpse, but only China and other neutral countries like India actually win.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.